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Jaxyon posted:Literally like one poster a day or two ago but is that going to stop me from characterizing the thread status quo as agreeing with them? gently caress no Just one poster who multiple people agreed with and then fell back to the defense of "but they're all nazis/fascists/white supremacists!" as the convenient fallback for why it'd be good. Edit: sorry, not just nazis. They're all all arch-conspirators who had the ear of Mike Pence just waiting to do their bidding. Cow Bell fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 22:46
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Meatball posted:Dems are really doing an own goal here. They could just kept payments frozen and don't nothing else and people would have been happy, even if he didn't do anything else on student loans. Most people knew that serious forgiveness wouldn't be likely, but capping interest, keeping the payments frozen, *something*. Unless it's changed recently a portion of collected student loans goes to pay for the Affordable Care Act. This is part of the reason they kinda have to resume collection, because they haven't shifted resources to cover the money that student loans cover. I imagine this could be changed via reconciliation.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:47
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Peter Daou Zen posted:Give us money. Republicans gave us money. Why are you not giving us money? Oh right, because that would play against the narrative that the country is A-okay and back on track. ...pretty sure he did. Like twice now. Now, it isn't enough money but he did give money, more of it than the Republicans by my count. quote:Good job Joe, you barely managed to pass a horrible bill that does nothing for Americans and is just handouts to rich people, Sometimes I wonder if no matter what the Democrats did their legislation would get mischaracterized as handouts for the rich. Like they actually can't, by the laws of United States and how it's economy works, just recruit Worker's Collectives to build infrastructure with no money entering the markets. Like yeah, capitalism sucks but what, they should loving reform the entire economic and legal system of the United States before doing infrastructure spending? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 22:48
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Cow Bell posted:Just one poster who multiple people agreed with and then fell back to the defense of "but they're all nazis/fascists/white supremacists!" as the convenient fallback for why it'd be good. That's not what happened but whatever makes you feel like you're fighting the good fight against the dastardly thread consensus.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:51
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Peter Daou Zen posted:-Stop wailing about 1/6. Americans do not care about this non event https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/09/28/declining-share-of-republicans-say-it-is-important-to-prosecute-jan-6-rioters/ Looks like people care. And, again, calling a fascist attack a "non issue" is water carrying. Hope you enjoy our upcoming Reichstag fire. Cow Bell posted:Edit: sorry, not just nazis. They're all all arch-conspirators who had the ear of Mike Pence just waiting to do their bidding. Stop pretending their intents weren't plastered all over the internet for everyone to see.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:51
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How are u posted:You have absolutely no idea what's in the BBBA, do you? What lovely reductio ad absurdum. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/18/democrats-agonize-tax-cuts-rich-522859 quote:Democrats are struggling with a huge problem that could sink them at the ballot box: They may end up looking more sympathetic to rich people than Republicans. The GOP is already running on ads capitalizing on Dems' insistence on giving richies a tax cut, and that's before the bill's been further stripped of good things by the Senate, passed & signed into law. eta: skylined! posted:Unless it's changed recently a portion of collected student loans goes to pay for the Affordable Care Act. This is part of the reason they kinda have to resume collection, because they haven't shifted resources to cover the money that student loans cover. The ads on how your student-loan debt is subsidizing private health insurers just write themselves. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 22:51
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https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1461450887520563214 So is this going to turn the mods off or no?
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Nov 18, 2021 22:53
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Decon posted:Hope you enjoy our upcoming Reichstag fire. Buddy, the whole world is on the brink of burning, and you're wasting your words carrying water for the party that's letting capital do an ecoterrorism because the rules say they're supposed to.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:53
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Cow Bell posted:Just one poster who multiple people agreed with and then fell back to the defense of "but they're all nazis/fascists/white supremacists!" as the convenient fallback for why it'd be good. None of this is close to what happened and shows the lengths you are willing to lie about stuff that happened to continue trolling. There was maybe 2-3 people who pushed for harsher sentences and one weird dude who wanted them shot that multiple people pounced one.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:57
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Flopsy posted:https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1461450887520563214 I expect some goalpost shifting but it's better than a debt *increase*.
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Nov 18, 2021 22:58
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Willa Rogers posted:https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/18/democrats-agonize-tax-cuts-rich-522859 "GOP running ads that say Dems did bad" isn't really a reason to not do something There's no making it easy, they're going to instantly say anything dems do is the Worst Thing, and having three 24/7 news networks and social media to blast it out is what makes it easy. The reasons to not do the SALT cut already exist independent of that. Especially LOL that Rick Scott is pretending to be aghast at a handout to rich people. The real problem for Dems is that they watered down their agenda so hard that they don't have anything positive to campaign on, and getting your base amped up is literally the only thing that matters any more. We're hosed. Lib and let die posted:Buddy, the whole world is on the brink of burning, and you're wasting your words carrying water for the party that's letting capital do an ecoterrorism because the rules say they're supposed to. Carrying water for the people who want to accellerate the world burning isn't a great use of your time either. Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 23:01
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Lib and let die posted:Buddy, the whole world is on the brink of burning, and you're wasting your words carrying water for the party that's letting capital do an ecoterrorism because the rules say they're supposed to. Where? I've said they suck, and that they can and should be criticized. I haven't diminished or denied anything they've done. All I've said about them is that their misdeeds don't justify describing the people that broke into the Capitol (some of them with intent to kill people) as "just tourists"
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Nov 18, 2021 23:09
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AmiYumi posted:Fancy Pelosi was a less obvious troll than this, and they got called out on their first page. Yeah, but the mods get upset if you point out obvious trolls so you have to do this bullshit thing to interact with their dishonesty with honesty for some reason.
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Nov 18, 2021 23:12
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Lib and let die posted:Buddy, the whole world is on the brink of burning, and you're wasting your words carrying water for the party that's letting capital do an ecoterrorism because the rules say they're supposed to. Instead we should be wasting words supporting fascists because they aren't all that bad? The Sean posted:Yeah, but the mods get upset if you point out obvious trolls so you have to do this bullshit thing to interact with their dishonesty with honesty for some reason. Well yeah even mentioning something like them trolling gets you probed by the_steve if your post ends up in the other thread.
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Nov 18, 2021 23:14
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Willa Rogers posted:https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/18/democrats-agonize-tax-cuts-rich-522859 The type of people who listen to the GOP whining about rich people getting tax cuts are the type of people who will never, ever, ever vote Democrat. Lib and let die posted:Buddy, the whole world is on the brink of burning, and you're wasting your words carrying water for the party that's letting capital do an ecoterrorism because the rules say they're supposed to. What if they're related to me?
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Nov 18, 2021 23:15
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lmao that the Dems are terminally incapable of doing things in general and the one time where they literally don't have to do anything at all to get a win, they go out of their way to do something and that something is a big middle finger to young people it'd be comical if it weren't so goddamn depressing. gently caress it we should organize a student loan default and just blow the whole drat thing up, it's not like that isn't where we're headed already with the student debt bubble approaching $2 Trillion. For reference, the housing bubble that caused the great recession was "only" $900 Billion.
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Nov 18, 2021 23:17
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skylined! posted:I expect some goalpost shifting but it's better than a debt *increase*. The tweet is talking specifically about a revenue mechanism in the bill, not the bill as a whole. Of course it's not going to be a debt increase Jaxyon posted:"GOP running ads that say Dems did bad" isn't really a reason to not do something There's no making it easy, they're going to instantly say anything dems do is the Worst Thing, and having three 24/7 news networks and social media to blast it out is what makes it easy. The reasons to not do the SALT cut already exist independent of that. The SALT poo poo is worthy of discussion insofar as we see constant excuse theorycrafting here and elsewhere that Dems want to do good things but can't because gee what about the optics, what about the swing votes, what about the electoral backlash, oh man they just can't risk it. The fact that they're digging in to push through something bad that actually does let Republicans cut insincere-but-mostly-truthful promos on them should really dispel the former notion
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Nov 18, 2021 23:17
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"The world is on the brink of burning!" I say as I also insist that we should ally with people who don't believe in climate change at all, or if they do then certainly don't believe that we should take serious much less necessary action to mitigate it.
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Nov 18, 2021 23:18
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How are u posted:"The world is on the brink of burning!" I say as I also insist that we should ally with people who don't believe in climate change at all, or if they do then certainly don't believe that we should take serious much less necessary action to mitigate it. You ally with them on things there's a common ground on. You are literally loving illiterate. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 18, 2021 23:20
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I do think if you could convince every student loan debtor that defaulting for a couple months would not only get their payments deferred again but get us all at least another 2000 check that’d be rad. Why not let the little people crash the system for once, seems like rich people do it every 10 years or so.
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Nov 18, 2021 23:21
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Don't they just automatically take the money out of your account or garnish your wages if you don't pay?
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Nov 18, 2021 23:25
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DarkCrawler posted:The type of people who listen to the GOP whining about rich people getting tax cuts are the type of people who will never, ever, ever vote Democrat. Well, it's not going to be "The GOP" it'll be commercials from various cutouts making slick ads with titles like Small Business for a Fair America. They already have one going around. If you think that the group of people who don't like hearing about rich people getting tax cuts are all guaranteed GOP people, then...well, the Dems are hosed.
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Nov 18, 2021 23:26
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:The tweet is talking specifically about a revenue mechanism in the bill, not the bill as a whole. Of course it's not going to be a debt increase Ah right, read too quickly; this looks like it's for the IRS funding specifically. BBB will get a vote in the House tonight. https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1461459755101270016?s=20 skylined! fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 23:28
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i just crack-pinged my boomer mother when she was trying to tell me about the best ways to retire and was just super shocked when I didn't care because nobody in my generation would be able to retire and since nobody's doing anything about climate change, what's the point of retiring in a hellworld. Just never occurred to her that poo poo is really as bad as it is right now because her boomerness has insulated her from the economic and social repercussions of 40 years of GOP policy (she's a libertarian that votes for GOP exclusively except for when Ron Paul ran in 2008 for some reason, dunno why). "Surely you're just being pessimistic, they'll figure things out" "Ma, it was 109 for a week in Seattle. 109. 109 DEGREES. ONE HUNDRED AND NINE DEGREES." edit: lol, this is why nothing will get better. 
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Nov 18, 2021 23:31
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The idea that we can shun or ignore America's hosed up racist prosperity gospel inconvenienced millionaire culture into insignificance is more absurd to me than the idea our system will deliver what's needed without crushing pressure from the masses.
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Nov 18, 2021 23:41
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DarkCrawler posted:The type of people who listen to the GOP whining about rich people getting tax cuts are the type of people who will never, ever, ever vote Democrat. What about the type of people who usually "vote Democrat" <sic> but who need to be encouraged to do so?
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Nov 18, 2021 23:43
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HonorableTB posted:i just crack-pinged my boomer mother when she was trying to tell me about the best ways to retire and was just super shocked when I didn't care because nobody in my generation would be able to retire and since nobody's doing anything about climate change, what's the point of retiring in a hellworld. Just never occurred to her that poo poo is really as bad as it is right now because her boomerness has insulated her from the economic and social repercussions of 40 years of GOP policy (she's a libertarian that votes for GOP exclusively except for when Ron Paul ran in 2008 for some reason, dunno why). It's this: most of them don't give a poo poo because they will die soon, and they hate you anyway because "Jesus didn't come back and the world changed without them, so you millenials and Zoomers can just die, because you made the world way more sinful" This is like verbatim a conversation I had with an older person this year
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Nov 18, 2021 23:46
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Willa Rogers posted:The ads on how your student-loan debt is subsidizing private health insurers just write themselves. Outflanked on the left by Republicans! What you are actually going to get from Republicans is prosperity gospel about how helping people is bad and wasteful. Kraftwerk posted:Don't they just automatically take the money out of your account or garnish your wages if you don't pay? Yes. I guess in the theoretical world where everyone simultaneously agrees that debt is an illusion and money isn't real, it remains to be seen if there is enough infrastructure to set out on garnishing wages on that scale--as in there's just not enough people working in the office to enforce everything. But in any real world scenario where we're seriously talking about no one paying their debts, we're actually talking about imminent economic collapse along the lines of third world countries.
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Nov 18, 2021 23:50
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:The tweet is talking specifically about a revenue mechanism in the bill, not the bill as a whole. Of course it's not going to be a debt increase Who here thinks that Dems want to do good things but can't because optics? Just about everybody in this thread is angry about dems. People disagree on the specifics of how they suck and how they might suck less. Republicans cutting promos doesn't matter because Repulicans are literally running on an alternate history fantasy at this point and truth doesn't matter at all. Lib and let die posted:You ally with them on things there's a common ground on. You are literally loving illiterate. What common ground do you have with fascists, that doesn't require you accepting some of their fascism? You're vastly better off engaging with people who don't vote and/or aren't active fascists, which is a much larger group. "Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds, but scratch a fascist and actually it's a leftist under there the whole time!"
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Nov 18, 2021 23:51
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There is an enormous opportunity for one party to go full GET hosed RICH PEOPLE and get like alllll the votes, because there is a wealth of stuff you can make fun of rich people for. They are so loving dumb and because people want their money nobody calls them out. Aaron Rodgers is dumb, and his girlfriend promotes eating clay. Go to town! Talk about how if you are not dumb enough to eat clay, you’re smarter than a millionaire: so who let these idiots be in charge?
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Nov 18, 2021 23:55
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The Guardian has, uh, endorsed blowing up fossil fuel infrastructure. You love to see it https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/18/moral-case-destroying-fossil-fuel-infrastructure The Guardian posted:The climate struggle has entered a new phase. It is marked by a search for different tactics: something that cannot be so easily ignored, a mode of action that disrupts business-as-usual for real, some way to pull the emergency brake. This search has only just begun, but the signs are there.
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Nov 19, 2021 00:03
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Jaxyon posted:Who here thinks that Dems want to do good things but can't because optics? Like two weeks ago multiple posters ITT spent all day inventing an elaborate case that student loan forgiveness isn't going anywhere because it would be an electoral disaster for Democrats and other people chimed in with "ahh hmm yes, I have my own anecdotes that support this idea, the Democrats are wise to avoid this tricksy snare"
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Nov 19, 2021 00:04
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socialsecurity posted:Some thread/forum banned people were invited back to stir the same poo poo they used too. Mods now just flip flop between telling people just to ignore people making GBS threads all over the floor, or tell us to report them. Problem with reporting anyone is mods lack object permanence. So I guess we just have to deal with assholes making GBS threads up the thread all the time now. Doctor Butts fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 00:05
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HonorableTB posted:The Guardian has, uh, endorsed blowing up fossil fuel infrastructure. You love to see it Oh, you meant literally. Holy poo poo.
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Nov 19, 2021 00:05
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Lib and let die posted:You ally with them on things there's a common ground on. You are literally loving illiterate. Like you gotta break the indoctrination first, and yeah legalizing marijuana/ revamping healthcare/ ending student debt are all things that liberals and leftists want, and hell maybe some Republicans, but the hardcore want more laws to punish the brown people and poors for being so, and increading your own base through actions is way loving easier than convincing ethnostaters "hey what if we give you national healthcare but brown people don't get it?" 
TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 00:06
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HonorableTB posted:The Guardian has, uh, endorsed blowing up fossil fuel infrastructure. You love to see it while that's an opinion article and I'm unclear on how tightly the guardian regulates those, it's definitely a thing
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Nov 19, 2021 00:06
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HonorableTB posted:The Guardian has, uh, endorsed blowing up fossil fuel infrastructure. You love to see it Somebody had to break the dam. We aren’t voting our way out of this, so we need to learn to talk in ways, and normalize talking about, taking political action that has meaningful effects. You only have one vote, but one good icepick can cripple an entire corporate fleet for a day in an hour or two of work.
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Nov 19, 2021 00:07
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Jaxyon posted:Who here thinks that Dems want to do good things but can't because optics? Literally cannot read. If you haven't read my posts today up to this point, why would I waste my time to type it all up again? I've provided examples of issues where Trump voter and left 'voter' interests overlap, provided a diagram, and you're still questioning.
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Nov 19, 2021 00:07
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Outflanked on the left by Republicans! See, this is that ventriloquizing I mentioned upthread, when a cartoonish take of one's enemy is so strong, whether due to echo chambers or self-soothing, that it stamps out common sense & reason because of its overly reductive take. Even if every last among tens of millions GOP voters staunchly believed in prosperity gospel (which of course they actually don't), then why would hypocrisy be a concern if it helped the GOP win elections? If one is concerned about Dems retaining the presidency, and adding to their Congressional majorities, I believe that it'd be useful to look at how the opposition's messaging is eased or hindered by the Dems' legislative actions & rhetoric. The GOP (and affiliated groups) are already running the ads against Dems up for reelection next year; you'd better let them know that the ads will be counterproductive, because I'm sure they didn't field-test their messaging before the ad buys. vvv If you've got a problem with a particular point I've made, please either quote it or report it rather than continuing this sort of generalized hostile aggression you follow me around with that has nothing to do with what I've actually posted. Thanks! Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Nov 19, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2021 00:09
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Willa Rogers posted:See, this is that ventriloquizing I mentioned upthread, when a cartoonish take of one's enemy is so strong, whether due to echo chambers or self-soothing, that it stamps out common sense & reason because of its overly reductive take. And yet half of what you post is doing the same thing with liberals? I don't get why we need to find common ground with fascists but tying to find common grounds with parts of the Democratic party makes you a monster because all ds.ate the same and if you try to day they aren't a monolith you get brigaded.
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Nov 19, 2021 00:11
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