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cinci zoo sniper posted:Yeah, it's very clear that they're context switching on the go. We had supposed package confirmed by 3am Europe this night, with "nuclear options" clearly off the table, and now we've gone through like 2-3 new sanctions versions today, and now everything nuclear, sans crude oil, is on the table, including direct Putin sanctions and SWIFT blockade. The danish PM just said that personal sanctions against Putin had been approved on the NATO meeting earlier today.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:53
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VorpalBunny posted:I think for a lot of us it's helplessness. How can we help? I do my piddling part here in the States, donating money/resources and volunteering for Get Out The Vote stuff, but it really feels so useless in the face of a handful of insane fuckers who ruin the world for everyone. I think the stories of everyday folks standing up to invaders helps morale around the world, even if it's more myth than truth. To be clear I (maybe we, I dunno) aren't calling out people in the States for not dropping everything and going to Ukraine to fight. I/we are saying its pretty drat bullshit that people are basically saying they should give up and there's nothing worth dying for. But I dunno my family dealt with slavery, political purges, and the holocaust so I'm probably pretty biased on the whole thing.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:53
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Youth Decay posted:While Putin calls for "denazification" he also claims that Ukraine is being controlled by "the West" and that he wants to purge "undesirables", which are making alarm bells go off in my head. Whenever there's a war in Europe the local Jewish communities suffer some of the worst damage. There was also Lavrov going off about how Ukrainian government is enemies of Slavicness and Orthodoxy.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:54
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https://twitter.com/EJ_Burrows/status/1497252061678813187?t=EBPvHNOPOrryzDdtNAMEjQ&s=19
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Feb 25, 2022 18:54
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Hungarian state media started to "analyze" the war on state TV tonight. Some fun bullet points: - Ukraine started the war - Zelenskyy compared to Hitler (arming women and children) - Russian soldiers are calm and professional - Ukraine tried to start World War 3 by asking Turkey to close the Bosphorus - Russian troops captured Chernobyl so that it wont get attacked
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Feb 25, 2022 18:55
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Ynglaur posted:
My family in Ukraine are mostly Russian nationalist types and even they all voted for him because they genuinely think he's a fair minded patriot who gives a poo poo about Ukraine and won't just cut and run after robbing the country blind. He got nearly 75% of the vote so it's insanely unbelievable propaganda that Putin is saying he's some unpopular western-appointed puppet (who is also a jewish nazi drug addict)
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Feb 25, 2022 18:55
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mdemone posted:something fucky is going on here. The only thing I can think of is to provoke a response from a country with a navy - but to what end? US/UK/France are all NATO allies with significant naval assets and could ostensibly do it, but is Putin really trying to draw NATO into a war so he can claim he was attacked first? I don't see the logic there.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:55
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I absolutely would not have considered putin crazy before the Russian language speaker analysis of his advisor meetings and pre-invasion speeches. But, here we are. guess even dictators previously renowned for "canniness" can just turn up with advanced cases of boomer fox news brain. "Putin's crazy" might be a subjective judgment but one way or another there's substantial evidence that this war was not rationally pursued and you can't predicate future Russian actions based on rational choices. If you could, we wouldn't be here.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:55
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OwlFancier posted:The cemetaries are full of people with individual agency who probably felt much the same way in their time. I simply do not believe in the idea that a heroic death is commendable, you're just dead either way. I'm sorry, I do not think I can ever think otherwise, I would rather they were still alive to live in that land. I've seen far too many people rationalize their deaths as meaningful, and in the end they are all just dead. If anything "You're just dead either way" seems more of a reason for people to die choosing to do something they believe will have positive consequences rather than hanging around until random chance or old age kicks them off. I have no idea what I would do in that situation, just that the inevitablility of death doesn't seem much of a counter-argument.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:55
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cinci zoo sniper posted:and now everything nuclear, sans crude oil, is on the table, including direct Putin sanctions and SWIFT blockade. Edit: And yeah I'm guessing gigantic sanctions from international shipping countries are to result from Russia sinking all cargo enroute to Ukraine. Grouchio fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 18:56
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Shooting Blanks posted:The only thing I can think of is to provoke a response from a country with a navy - but to what end? US/UK/France are all NATO allies with significant naval assets and could ostensibly do it, but is Putin really trying to draw NATO into a war so he can claim he was attacked first? I don't see the logic there.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:56
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Shooting Blanks posted:The only thing I can think of is to provoke a response from a country with a navy - but to what end? US/UK/France are all NATO allies with significant naval assets and could ostensibly do it, but is Putin really trying to draw NATO into a war so he can claim he was attacked first? I don't see the logic there. Its still ongoing and his bluff hasn't been called, but I imagine he is making it clear that shipping in the area needs to cease. If his bluff gets called and people go "No, gently caress you" then he can just apologize or whatever because people don't want to get drawn in if they don't have to and I doubt they will do so if he backs off immediately.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:56
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Yeah at this point the whole "why do anything if death is possible" seems to question the whole human condition in some weird way.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:57
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Shooting Blanks posted:The only thing I can think of is to provoke a response from a country with a navy - but to what end? US/UK/France are all NATO allies with significant naval assets and could ostensibly do it, but is Putin really trying to draw NATO into a war so he can claim he was attacked first? I don't see the logic there. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if NATO sends some ships through at some point soon now as a FON activity.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:57
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with a rebel yell she QQd posted:Hungarian state media started to "analyze" the war on state TV tonight. Some fun bullet points: As someone mostly descended from fairly recent Hungarian stock I can safely say that Hungarians are some of the most politically deranged and unpleasant people in all of Europe. An entire nation where qannon level thought is the majority. Brutally racist and antiemetic, a nazi-level hatred of refugees. They'd have every roma in a death camp if the EU wasn't watching. A deeply unpleasant people. The moment a hungarian begins giving an opinion on any topic, be prepared for a mix of the most vile poo poo you've ever heard but also the most insane poo poo you've ever heard.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:58
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Mokotow posted:At the border now between Poland and Ukraine. Absolute mess, cold, terrified people coming through every once in a while. Since there’s no organization, me and some likeminded people waiting but despite the government announcements people will be free to go through, only cars are coming. I already have contacts to someone on the other side but they’re saying it’ll be two hours for them to cross. gently caress its cold. Are you in Medyka? I want to go help next week as well.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:58
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TheRat posted:NATO is not going to protect panama-regged ships in the black sea dude. With shipping companies flagging and paying no taxes for decades in countries with no labor or environmental laws, I can't really pity the shipowners. I feel pity for the crews, though. I agree that NATO is unlikely to do more than tut-tut if these are close to Ukraine's shore, but if Russia starts going further afield things could escalate very quickly. Mokotow posted:At the border now between Poland and Ukraine. Absolute mess, cold, terrified people coming through every once in a while. Since there’s no organization, me and some likeminded people waiting but despite the government announcements people will be free to go through, only cars are coming. I already have contacts to someone on the other side but they’re saying it’ll be two hours for them to cross. gently caress its cold. Do you have a Paypal wallet you'd be willing to PM me? I can't do much but I can buy you and a couple refugees a hot meal, at least.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:59
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah at this point the whole "why do anything if death is possible" seems to question the whole human condition in some weird way. I'm going to guess anyone who thinks that way probably isn't living through a situation where their country is being invaded by a major world power and facing a real rather than metaphorical existential crisis.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:59
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Glimm posted:I'm not sure when this was made or exactly where it is but the background isn't super generic: This is stone cold bad rear end, and grade-A propaganda. It should be played around the world.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:59
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Grouchio posted:What do you mean? 'Nuclear' in the colloquial sense, not the literal one.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:59
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Yeah, it's very clear that they're context switching on the go. We had supposed package confirmed by 3am Europe this night, with "nuclear options" clearly off the table, and now we've gone through like 2-3 new sanctions versions today, and now everything nuclear, sans crude oil, is on the table, including direct Putin sanctions and SWIFT blockade. It's like they realized Crimea wasn't a one-off, maybe we should have been more discouraging about that. And somebody gave Germany an earful.
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Feb 25, 2022 19:01
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Putin can be a rational actor and be working off a calculus that is wildly out of kilter with reality (or with a value system that is different to ours).
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Feb 25, 2022 19:03
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ZombieLenin posted:New York Times is now reporting Russian forces offensive momentum has been ground to a halt in Ukraine, but warns Russia has reserve forces and could commit them. How much of this is Ukrainian military success, how much of this is Russia slowing as peace talks begin?
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Feb 25, 2022 19:03
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Yeah, it's very clear that they're context switching on the go. We had supposed package confirmed by 3am Europe this night, with "nuclear options" clearly off the table, and now we've gone through like 2-3 new sanctions versions today, and now everything nuclear, sans crude oil, is on the table, including direct Putin sanctions and SWIFT blockade. Can you or whoever brought it up source the fact that SWIFT is on the table, in particular Germany's apprehension weakening? Just listened to an interview of foreign minister Annalena Baerbock mentioning SWIFT sanctions would have unintended consequences, the example she quoted was "what about hypothetical Russian parents supporting their daughter studying in Europe with a monthly allowance". That justification will surely go over well...
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Feb 25, 2022 19:03
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https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1497270216191000588
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Feb 25, 2022 19:03
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https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1497270216191000588?s=20&t=x6ljPAKHO7qYtl499rMaZQ I also found out that my family in Chernihiv has been taking in orphans to care for them. My host mom told her daughter to stop spamming her because she's too busy making food to answer her messages.
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Feb 25, 2022 19:04
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karasu posted:Can you or whoever brought it up source the fact that SWIFT is on the table, in particular Germany's apprehension weakening? I don't have an article, but in context it sounds like Germany is "exploring the consequences" of a Russian expulsion from SWIFT. Italy, the other holdout, is now telling Ukraine that it will also support SWIFT expulsion: https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1497267568461205509
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Feb 25, 2022 19:04
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Trump posted:The danish PM just said that personal sanctions against Putin had been approved on the NATO meeting earlier today. Looking at updates from NATO meeting posted to the previous page, I think we can make an educated guess on what’s happening and why sanctions confirmation for this afternoon got delayed.
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Feb 25, 2022 19:05
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Alchenar posted:Putin can be a rational actor and be working off a calculus that is wildly out of kilter with reality (or with a value system that is different to ours). Yeah, being rational doesn't mean you subscribe to the same set of morals as most of us do. You can be a perfectly rational evil motherfucker.
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Feb 25, 2022 19:06
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Zero_Grade posted:Wait, you're saying the Irish have strong feelings about a larger nation invading their smaller neighbor to the west? I find this hard to swallow. It's very much this, but also, over the last 20 or so years there has been a lot of immigration of people from Central and Eastern Europe into Ireland, so seeing Ukraine being attacked like this feels very personal - we're seeing the relatives and old homes of people who are now our neighbours and colleagues and friends being attacked and destroyed. It's loving brutal 
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Feb 25, 2022 19:07
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Shes Not Impressed posted:https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1497270216191000588?s=20&t=x6ljPAKHO7qYtl499rMaZQ Let her know she's a hero if you haven't already. I can't think of a better thing for her to be doing.
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Feb 25, 2022 19:07
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Mokotow posted:At the border now between Poland and Ukraine. Absolute mess, cold, terrified people coming through every once in a while. Since there’s no organization, me and some likeminded people waiting but despite the government announcements people will be free to go through, only cars are coming. I already have contacts to someone on the other side but they’re saying it’ll be two hours for them to cross. gently caress its cold. Seconding the paypal/bank details request. Can't promise much, but hopefully it'll be enough to cover the fuel costs at least. nurmie fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 19:07
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nurmie posted:Seconding the paypal/bank details request. thirding this
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Feb 25, 2022 19:09
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For those who want it or those who donated to the relief thread, we are working on a gangtag by goon Loden Taylor
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Feb 25, 2022 19:10
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How are u posted:I think some folks just have a hard time imagining that anything is worth dying for. Nothing is worth dying for. There are a million things worth living for, but I am a bit weirded out by how many people seem so blasé about their own and other people's lives.
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Feb 25, 2022 19:11
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with a rebel yell she QQd posted:Hungarian state media started to "analyze" the war on state TV tonight. Some fun bullet points: Don’t think Orban will be able to double-seat his gas discount here. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 19:12
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Ghetto SuperCzar posted:Heh, yeah! I'm sure Putin is super embarrassed and we would have stomped those ukrainians by now... Seriously... the take I'm getting from all this isn't that Russia sucks at war in particular, it's that all so-called superpowers are far more flimsy than the media would have you believe. I would be worried that this will go to show that conventional warfare is still viable, even against nuclear powers
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Feb 25, 2022 19:12
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Josef bugman posted:Nothing is worth dying for. There are a million things worth living for, but I am a bit weirded out by how many people seem so blasé about their own and other people's lives. Yeah human history disagrees. There is plenty of things worth dying for, is this worth dying for? I don't know, that's a personal decision.
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Feb 25, 2022 19:13
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cinci zoo sniper posted:https://www.politico.eu/article/china-xi-jinping-vladimir-putin-negotiate-ukraine/ You know how growing up you had maybe a friendship with this one guy, and it went way back? Like probably knew the dude since fourth grade and all throughout adolescence? Some close poo poo. You know who his first crush was, you maybe got drunk on a stolen fridge beer together, real close stuff. But like at some point probably around college, you just kind of realize you're starting to outgrow him? Like you're getting your first job, steady girlfriend, maybe you don't know what you will do for career but you have some exciting ideas to pursue. Meanwhile your friend is hanging out in high school parking lots hitting on underage girls, he's maybe picked up a bit of a meth habit, has a really grody rear end neckbeard,and he basically perpetually smells like cigarettes and heineken. Bonds go deep, but like
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Josef bugman posted:Nothing is worth dying for. This is not a very common opinion, at all. And you seem to be surprised to be discovering that right now.
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