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Fivemarks posted:Because I've been reading too much Harry Potter discourse, I can't help but feel like the sometimes bland and milquetoast nothing you get out of some gundam shows' political messages (PEACE IS GOOD, WAR BAD, ANYTHING TO HAVE PEACE IS GOOD) can feel a bit detached and JK Rowling style "enlightened liberal". Read less Harry Potter discourse.
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Apr 26, 2022 11:27
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I can't actually think of a Gundam show that advocates that fighting is something that should never be done under any circumstances. Even the most pacifistic and gentle Gundam protagonists like Loran are more than willing to throw down if necessary, and as for the philosophy of pacifism, well, part of Relena's arc in Gundam Wing was the fall of the Sanc Kingdom getting her to acknowledge that absolute pacifism was an idealistic and aspirational goal rather than a practical approach that could be implemented successfully in reality. The Gundam franchise isn't "war is bad", it's "war is bad and should be avoided, but fighting to stop monsters is sometimes a necessary evil".
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Apr 26, 2022 11:34
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chiasaur11 posted:Hell, the first Gundam, for all its disdain for the Federation, has even less respect for Side 6's neutrality, and the worst of the Federation in ZZ is trying to just appease rather than fight. Really? I'd think it's a pretty neutral depiction of, well...neutrality, because Side 6 is the only one of the Sides to survive the initial fighting, and even they took heavy losses according to the original show. Which is a pretty understandable reason to go "no, gently caress you, no fighting or else we're going to get entirely destroyed too; just like all the other Sides". The protagonists are even quite respectful of that desire, and it's only Zeon who threaten them. Which reflects badly on Zeon, if anything.
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Apr 26, 2022 11:37
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chiasaur11 posted:Reccoa and Char banged. Char just didn't understand why that didn't solve all of their relationship issues. God he is literally me
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Apr 26, 2022 12:46
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Of the shows I've watched the only ones that feel like they go too hard on the "peace good war bad" angle are SEED and Unicorn but it's less the intent of the shows and more the desire of the protagonists. Banagher and Kira don't like fighting and go out of their way to avoid killing, until they reach some form of internal enlightenment that allows them to fight and win without killing thanks to protagonist plot armour and having an OP mobile suit. While I don't think that's necessarily a bad approach in theory, in practice it feels rather hollow because both characters lack a degree of personal sacrifice to justify being the super pilot who wins and doesn't kill. Like Mikazuki gives up a lot in order to become the beast he is in Barbatos. Amuro becomes more detached and mentally stressed. Kamille loses so drat much. But Banagher and Kira feel sad over a few kills and then they become Gods in their machines and it doesn't feel as earned without them giving up more to become the merciful supersoldier. One of my favourite takes on pacifism in Gundam comes from 08th MS Team when Shiro's momentary belief in peaceful resolution blows up in his face and his attempts to save the guerrilla village without killing ends up getting everyone killed and him sacrificing his morals to save his own life. Peace is an ideal that only works if both sides can see its in their best interests. And it can be hard to see past all the bloodshed and eye for an eye vengeance.
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Apr 26, 2022 13:09
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Kanos posted:I can't actually think of a Gundam show that advocates that fighting is something that should never be done under any circumstances. Even the most pacifistic and gentle Gundam protagonists like Loran are more than willing to throw down if necessary, and as for the philosophy of pacifism, well, part of Relena's arc in Gundam Wing was the fall of the Sanc Kingdom getting her to acknowledge that absolute pacifism was an idealistic and aspirational goal rather than a practical approach that could be implemented successfully in reality. I know some people who really hated Shiro in MS Team because they felt he was morally equating Zeon and Federation despite being a victim of one of Zeon's worst crimes. He did after all abandon both sides and become a pacifist with his girlfriend whose name escapes me. But, and it's been a while, didn't he have a super awful Federation officer in the show? So if his personal experience with Zeon's gassing would make him dislike them, maybe his personal experience with an evil high-ranking member of the Feddie military would make him just as unhappy and, even worse, disillusioned in the righteousness of his own cause. That seems entirely believable to me. And HP and Gundam are pretty different given HP is about magic and the spiritual. Murder literally rips your soul apart and can leave you a flayed baby in Limbo for eternity. Very different connotations from Gundam which...I guess has some kind of afterlife but fuckin' Char is hanging out with Lalah and Amuro so I guess everybody gets to be together after they die Nice deal
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Apr 26, 2022 13:13
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NikkolasKing posted:his girlfriend whose name escapes me. Aida Aina Aila
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Apr 26, 2022 13:14
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Aina Sahalin. And the dickhead Federation officer was Commander "I'm gonna use mobile suits as bootleg nukes" Anderson. Kojima was more level headed.
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Apr 26, 2022 13:39
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Fivemarks posted:Because I've been reading too much Harry Potter discourse, I can't help but feel like the sometimes bland and milquetoast nothing you get out of some gundam shows' political messages (PEACE IS GOOD, WAR BAD, ANYTHING TO HAVE PEACE IS GOOD) can feel a bit detached and JK Rowling style "enlightened liberal". What gundam show specifically do you have in mind? To my knowledge they all have much more complex messaging on war than what you're describing here. "Peace is good" tends to be something gundam assumes you already know and it builds its messaging from that as a starting point, not the end goal. Hell as discussed gundam frequently doubles back and questions that assumption - is peace good if that means letting fascist jackasses like the titans or gjallerhorn remain in charge? Signs point to no, not really, that kind of peace is not an acceptable state of affairs ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Apr 26, 2022 |
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Apr 26, 2022 15:26
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NikkolasKing posted:I know some people who really hated Shiro in MS Team because they felt he was morally equating Zeon and Federation despite being a victim of one of Zeon's worst crimes. He did after all abandon both sides and become a pacifist with his girlfriend whose name escapes me. Shiro is actually a pretty good example of what I'm talking about. He's very much extremely on the "I really, really don't want to kill people even if my enemies are genocidal monsters" end of things, to the point where this internal conflict endangers his life and the lives of his companions on a couple of occasions, but ultimately he still fights, only retiring from the war - which was almost over at any rate - after being declared a deserter and being permanently maimed. Arc Hammer posted:Aina Sahalin. The dickhead Federation commander who spied on Shiro and tried to use mobile suits as bombs was named Isan Ryer. Kojima was his subordinate, who was indeed much less of a dick but didn't have much power to do anything about it as long as his commander was an rear end in a top hat.
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Apr 26, 2022 17:00
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Kanos posted:The dickhead Federation commander who spied on Shiro and tried to use mobile suits as bombs was named Isan Ryer. Kojima was his subordinate, who was indeed much less of a dick but didn't have much power to do anything about it as long as his commander was an rear end in a top hat. Did I just Mandela effect myself into thinking his name was Anderson? Or was that a dub change?
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Apr 26, 2022 17:28
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ninjewtsu posted:What gundam show specifically do you have in mind? To my knowledge they all have much more complex messaging on war than what you're describing here. "Peace is good" tends to be something gundam assumes you already know and it builds its messaging from that as a starting point, not the end goal. Hell as discussed gundam frequently doubles back and questions that assumption - is peace good if that means letting fascist jackasses like the titans or gjallerhorn remain in charge? Signs point to no, not really, that kind of peace is not an acceptable state of affairs SEED, 00, Age, Unicorn. You can definitely make a case that its even more hypocritical in SEED, where the main characters refuse to 'kill' because they refuse to get their hand dirty and lose their moral high ground, but still leave people disabled and in flying coffins in the middle of battlefields and deep space.
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Apr 26, 2022 18:04
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You're thinking of those works on a surface level, and it turns out when you do that the messaging seems tepid
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Apr 26, 2022 18:08
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Gundam is more than that one MS Paint meme.
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Apr 26, 2022 18:28
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Seed and age suck by every account I have seem, so I have not watched them Been a while since I've seen 00 but I'm pretty sure that show was exploring how difficult achieving a lasting peace is and how easily even plans with every advantage conceivable break down. It definitely had a lot more to say than "you can make Ali Al Saachez go away with well wishes and hope." Unicorn is primarily looking at a "peacetime" society and how it's been permanently marred by war, and how scratching just a little reveals dissident groups who are chomping at the bit to go killing again. It's fundamentally asking, now that peace has been achieved, how do you go about keeping it? The answer it comes to is "those people are angry for legitimate cause, even if their lashing out just perpetuates the cycle of violence. Keeping the status quo is not sustainable, as a lovely status quo continues to breed inequality which only gives these people more reason to fight. Without fundamental government policy changes that give people hope that things will truly improve, those dissidents will find their own means of improving their lot, which will ultimately lead to more conflict." It's important to note that full frontal is looking for peace too - an aggressive peace enforced by economic pressure on the system's current oppressors. The show's primary criticism of this is that a peace enforced by assuming the worst in humanity and meeting it in kind, rather than a peace created by a collective and hopeful vision for the future, is ultimately just as violent in practical application as war. This is the whole ending conflict over laplace's box - full frontal doesnt care about the contents, he wants to use it as political leverage to enact the co-prosperity sphere plan, which will force the federation into economic dependence on the colonies and shift the balance of power such that the status quo is decided by the benevolence of the colonists instead of the benevolence of the federation. Banagher and mineva release the box's contents because it represents an acknowledgement of the validity of the colonists' right to representation in government by the federation (through the dumbest, vaguest wording possible) and is a transfer of power in which the earthnoids and spacenoids share power, rather than maintaining an oppressor-oppressed state of affairs. Which is a little more complex than what you described! ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Apr 26, 2022 |
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Apr 26, 2022 18:29
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Dumb question, but do any online streaming services have Gundam: The Origin? Netflix has the OG movies, Unicorn and Hathaway, but not Origin, Prime seems to have it in some parts of the world, but not the U.S. I've seen the first 4 episodes and want to watch the last 2, but I don't have a Blu-Ray player. What are my options?
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Apr 26, 2022 18:33
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Looks like Hulu has it.
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Apr 26, 2022 18:41
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Waffleman_ posted:Looks like Hulu has it. does it have it or the tv version
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Apr 26, 2022 18:48
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Looks like the TV. I'm not sure the OVA versions of Unicorn and Origin are even streaming anywhere.
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Apr 26, 2022 18:52
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https://www.hulu.com/series/mobile-suit-gundam-the-origin-3211a7c9-930e-43ff-8ec4-e9d39d0e249a this is the OVA. 6 episodes, with both a sub and dub version.
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Apr 26, 2022 18:56
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Ah, there we go. Belissimo.
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Apr 26, 2022 18:57
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both netflix and hulu have the unicorn ova https://www.hulu.com/series/mobile-suit-gundam-uc-unicorn-cc4d40a5-837e-463f-8b48-58e9b1a16c6f https://www.netflix.com/title/80189183
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Apr 26, 2022 18:59
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Thanks! Out of curiosity, is there any real difference between the OAV and TV versions other than episode length?
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Apr 26, 2022 19:15
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the tv versions are the OVAs but with a ton of awful filler added that wastes time so a perfectly good OVA can be chopped up into a full length tv series without adding anything of value (ok the OPs might be of value) watch the OVAs and then check out beyond the time for a sick music video
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Apr 26, 2022 19:20
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Is Origin streaming anywhere in Canada so I don't need a VPN to watch it on Hulu? Barring it being put into GundamInfo's rotation on YouTube, of course.
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Apr 26, 2022 19:50
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There's no way Garma nutted in Icelina. He probably vomited the second he saw a vagina.
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Apr 26, 2022 20:18
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Fivemarks posted:SEED, 00, Age, Unicorn. 00 and Unicorn didn't really do either of those things. gently caress I can't think of a time Setsuna really did that at all in 00 besides trying to communicate with the ELS.
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Apr 26, 2022 21:18
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muike posted:There's no way Garma nutted in Icelina. He probably vomited the second he saw a vagina. Garma would never crush puss before marriage imo
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Apr 26, 2022 22:44
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you kidding? garma was a wannabe rule breaker, dating icelina despite her dad not allowing it they had sex exactly once and he cried after
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Apr 26, 2022 22:48
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PV for Mobile Suit Gundam: Cucuruz Doan's Island https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqe4YUT4ADE
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Apr 26, 2022 23:23
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Even 00, which is one of the most "People need to understand one another" gundam shows had setsuna have zero hestitation in killing dudes. Hell, the show makes it clear that some people are just assholes who need to go Ali was part of the GN Burst but actively hated it and still wanted to kill people. Ribbons straight up admitted he didn't want to understand people and thought that he was a superior being. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Apr 26, 2022 |
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Apr 26, 2022 23:30
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psyer posted:PV for Mobile Suit Gundam: Cucuruz Doan's Island Looms pretty good. The only CGI I felt was janky in Origin was the Guntank battle and the Mobile worker testing, and they've definitely gotten better since then. It's no Hathaway level of compositing but it still looks nice.
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Apr 27, 2022 00:05
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Arc Hammer posted:Is Origin streaming anywhere in Canada so I don't need a VPN to watch it on Hulu? Barring it being put into GundamInfo's rotation on YouTube, of course. Crunchyroll has the show, subbed. I watched it there, can recommend.
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Apr 27, 2022 00:22
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https://twitter.com/shinimomi/status/1519071130518122496?t=Kv-IEZau9MZkvIJ_nDNxKQ&s=19 https://twitter.com/Butch_Gen/status/294344105620803584?t=0amisLESeImVVJ0C15-SYQ&s=19 Holy poo poo
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Apr 27, 2022 00:42
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Some people write manifestos, others go on to write cynical light novels because their favourite booby side character got offed by "Kill 'em all" Tomino.
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Apr 27, 2022 00:53
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Waffleman_ posted:https://twitter.com/shinimomi/status/1519071130518122496?t=Kv-IEZau9MZkvIJ_nDNxKQ&s=19 Tomino should start being ashamed of this instead of Victory imo
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Apr 27, 2022 01:01
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lila who
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Apr 27, 2022 01:07
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dogsicle posted:lila who The first of many women to die after getting close to Jerid. She was the Gabaldy pilot.
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Apr 27, 2022 01:09
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Arc Hammer posted:The first of many women to die after getting close to Jerid. She was the Gabaldy pilot. She fought Char and got a good line about how she really hopes that was the red comet, because otherwise losing like that would be embarrassing.
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Apr 27, 2022 01:14
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i only care about Sara and Emma sorry
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Apr 27, 2022 01:15
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