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The Senate is working on a deal where the Republicans agree to stop filibustering the new Covid aid package in exchange for allowing an amendment to prevent Biden from lifting Title 42 until they submit a plan to deal with the expected surge in migrants following its lifting. Schumer has had a policy of not allowing amendment votes for most major spending bills; which has annoyed both Republicans and other Democrats. This would lift his policy just for this bill and then go back to not allowing amendments. quote:Sens. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) and Patty Murray (D-Wash.), the caucus’ No. 2 and No. 3 leaders, said in interviews that the GOP’s desired vote is worth taking in order to shake loose the stalled Covid bill. What’s more, if they don’t give in, Republicans could make the same demand on other bills and potentially stall more Democratic priorities. quote:Biden’s decision to end the policy is splitting the Democratic caucus. Several vulnerable incumbents have called for Biden to reverse course on rolling back the deportation limits, pushing instead for bipartisan legislation from Sens. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) and James Lankford (R-Okla.) that requires the administration to have a plan in place to address an anticipated surge in border crossings. While the administration last month sought to appease those concerns by releasing a memo on its plan, some Democratic senators saw that as insufficient. quote:Still, for some Democratic senators, the vote on border policy is inevitable. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/10/democrats-border-gop-covid-aid-00031371 Fister Roboto posted:I don't think it's unreasonable to be wary of liberals who only start caring about issues when they affect them personally. Because that means it's very likely that they'll stop caring again when they are no longer affected, and even go so far as to scold the people who do continue to care. In the end it's not very effective for building a sustained movement that protects all people, and just becomes about protecting relatively well-off white people. Seems like protecting abortion in exchange for making liberals who don't pay attention to politics feel proud before they stop paying attention again is a pretty good deal.
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May 10, 2022 18:09
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Professor Beetus posted:At least this post is essentially saying "I disagree with the majority of democratic voters about what is a sufficient means of fighting for a right," which is not hinging on a disprovable of others' motivations. I have faith in the motivations of most Dem voters, if also believing that most of them have been inculcated into beliefs about society that it’s really hard to tear them away from. I’m being serious when I say the level of capitalist indoctrination in this country requires years of deprogramming for most individuals, and is impossible for a lot of people. In the same way there are emotions that Americans cannot experience because we were not raised in a culture that has a name or understanding of those emotions, for some people it’s an impossible barrier to escape the mainstream understanding of politics, a lie that has been consciously told by people who do not believe in it. In short, a lot of the ruling class believe in socialism, in the same way they believe that tigers exist, and have a similar desire to never meet either in the wild, and do a lot of work to ensure it never happens, and the product of that is visible in Americans politics, and possibly even in this thread from time to time.
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May 10, 2022 18:09
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Nonsense posted:I find it difficult to believe that Republicans will settle on it remaining a state issue. Mitch and others are already on record calling for a national ban. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/05/mitch-mcconnell-acknowledges-a-national-abortion-ban-is-possible-if-roe-is-overturned And a slew of GOP elected and candidates are calling for the birth control ruling to be overturned. https://sports.yahoo.com/republican-senate-candidate-endorsed-peter-012001327.html
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May 10, 2022 18:10
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Fister Roboto posted:Yes, and people who are like that tend to be liberals. Self-interest is kind of a core component of liberalism.  it's a core component of conservatism/libertarianism/objectivism, but we're doing that thing where liberals are all the bad things, so cool I guess.
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May 10, 2022 18:11
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selec posted:How often since Roe did leftists control the presidency and house? That's my point. They aren't any more successful at protecting rights than the democrats. they try a lot harder and are much more honest about it, but the outcome is no different. I've been fighting for climate change awareness my entire adult life, but I've lost that fight my entire life as well. Everyone knows about climate change but that has done absolutely nothing to stop the fright train. It is frustrating as hell, but I am not going to look at a young person today and tell them my past advocacy is the way forward because I've obviously failed to this point.
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May 10, 2022 18:11
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selec posted:I have faith in the motivations of most Dem voters, if also believing that most of them have been inculcated into beliefs about society that it’s really hard to tear them away from. What emotions do you believe Americans are incapable of experiencing? Are you able to yourself?
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May 10, 2022 18:11
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:
You completely missed the point of my post. Yes, if it ends with abortion being a protected right for EVERYONE then it is a good thing. But that is probably not what's going to happen.
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May 10, 2022 18:13
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RBA Starblade posted:What emotions do you believe Americans are incapable of experiencing? Are you able to yourself? yeah, sorry i have to know what emotions I am incapable of feeling because of capitalism. I love some good woo in my morning arguments. Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 18:19 on May 10, 2022 |
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May 10, 2022 18:14
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In 2021, congress made it so the CDC is finally able to study and report on gun violence again. Hooray...? They basically confirmed what everyone already knew, but put it in exact numbers: - The increase in gun murders was huge. quote:Gun deaths reached the highest level ever recorded in the United States in 2020, the first year of the pandemic, the Centers for Disease Control reported on Tuesday. Gun-related homicides in particular rose by 35 percent, a surge that exacted an unprecedented toll on Black men, agency researchers said. - Black people, especially black men under 40, are overwhelmingly the victims of gun crime. quote:Black Americans remained disproportionately affected by gun violence in 2020. Firearm homicide rates increased by 39.5 percent among Black people from 2019 to 2020, to 11,904. The victims were overwhelmingly young men. - Gun suicide rates also rose, but they were primarily among middle-aged white men and very few were among young Black Americans. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1524073543935438853 quote:Gun deaths surged during the pandemic’s first year, the C.D.C. reports.
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May 10, 2022 18:19
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RBA Starblade posted:What emotions do you believe Americans are incapable of experiencing? Are you able to yourself? There are distinct emotions of mourning and bloodlust (these are at best analogies, and not exact matches) that are experienced in individual cultures that are simply not present in others, just to give one example. I am no more able to feel these emotions than anyone else not acculturated to them. You experience the emotions your culture has a space for, and don’t experience ones that it does not; it’s hella weird but it’s where the research is pointing. Here’s some starter material: https://www.npr.org/programs/invisibilia/530718193/emotions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotions_and_culture selec fucked around with this message at 18:22 on May 10, 2022 |
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May 10, 2022 18:19
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Jaxyon posted:It's non-existent. Actually, I crossed out "introduced" because I was on my phone and didn't have a chance to check. They have, in fact, introduced it. I'm not really sure what would qualify as "do something" in your eyes, though. Two senators by themselves can't do much of anything, except refuse to join in on something that takes 50 or 60 votes to pass.
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May 10, 2022 18:19
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Jaxyon posted:
If calling them conservatives or libertarians will make you feel better, then fine. People should be wary when conservatives hop onto a social movement because their support is usually only out of self-interest, and will end as soon as their interests are served. Is that better?
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May 10, 2022 18:21
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selec posted:There are distinct emotions of mourning and bloodlust (these are at best analogies, and not exact matches) that are experienced in individual cultures that are simply not present in others, just to give one example. Could you provide that research? I find it hard to believe Americans don't have a concept of bloodlust or the ability to mourn, not to mention the various subcultures in the country. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 18:24 on May 10, 2022 |
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May 10, 2022 18:21
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RBA Starblade posted:Could you provide that research? I find it hard to believe Americans don't have a concept of bloodlust or the ability to mourn. It’s not that we don’t have the ability, it’s that these are specifically different emotions than those, and you are not reading for understanding or not reading generously, and I’d ask you to start doing whichever of those you are not. Start here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotions_and_culture Then listen to the second half of this: https://www.npr.org/programs/invisibilia/530718193/emotions
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May 10, 2022 18:24
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selec posted:There are distinct emotions of mourning and bloodlust (these are at best analogies, and not exact matches) that are experienced in individual cultures that are simply not present in others, just to give one example. you're going to need to pony up on this because it goes against some pretty fundamental research in emotional psychology that would point to otherwise. The stimulus for emotions and preference for emotions will be culturally dependent, but the range and capability are not culturally dependent. The idea that you can culture emotions into or out of existence seems to be the basis for a sci-fi horror movie.
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May 10, 2022 18:26
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selec posted:It’s not that we don’t have the ability, it’s that these are specifically different emotions than those, and you are not reading for understanding or not reading generously, and I’d ask you to start doing whichever of those you are not. I was hoping for actual research papers, but I guess NPR will do if that's what you've got.
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May 10, 2022 18:27
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I think people are justifiably going to be, at the very least, skeptical of "new blood" into direct action communities/movements over Roe (or any controversial decision, really) - whether that direct action is overtly signalling to the ruling class that It'd Be A drat Shame If Something Happened To That Nice Home Of Yours, I Sure Hope You're Keeping Up On The Insurance Payments or ad-hoc leaderless networks of individuals moving women in and out of particular states for whatever medical procedure is legal/not legal where they need to be - the former especially. A sloppy, careless agent with no heed for opsec could easily compromise themselves and the women they cater to and ultimately the entire mutual aid network. You don't get the benefit of going from "look you loving tankies just need to Be Realistic And Trust The Process, you entitled little shits" to "just thinking about Roe v Wade makes me want to burn this motherfucker down, comrade!" overnight without reservation from those whose movement you now attempt to join (and, so far as I'm concerned, attempt to co-opt). That's not how it works. This isn't the marvel loving universe where the kid from Captain America's childhood gets to now be a good guy because, "well gee howdy we just had some wrong preconceived notions that we had to sit down and talk through but it turns out we were on the same page all along!" - all this "new blood" trying to pour into direct action have been openly at odds with us for so long as any of us can remember and we don't loving trust you. You want to get in on direct action and mutual aid? First thing you can do is sit down, shut up, and learn how it works.
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May 10, 2022 18:27
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selec posted:There are distinct emotions of mourning and bloodlust (these are at best analogies, and not exact matches) that are experienced in individual cultures that are simply not present in others, just to give one example. Just skimming through that wiki article it sounds like it's similar to a lot of other concepts and how we perceive through our senses and share those experiences. In the same way everyone who can see is general seeing the same spectrum of light the way we perceive those colors is influenced by our culture. Everyone can feel angry/happy/sad but your culture and external influences are what break "angry" into all the different emotions and words that are inside of angry. Your culture will change how to interpret those feelings which will change those feelings inside of you.
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May 10, 2022 18:27
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:you're going to need to pony up on this because it goes against some pretty fundamental research in emotional psychology that would point to otherwise. The stimulus for emotions and preference for emotions will be culturally dependent, but the range and capability are not culturally dependent. The idea that you can culture emotions into or out of existence seems to be the basis for a sci-fi horror movie. I ask you to explain to me a concept that our culture has no words or concepts for, because you insist this is possible. Language and culture define us very, very deeply, and though it seems counterintuitive to think so, you cannot know a thing unless you can name it, so having no name for it as a culture makes it invisible to the vast majority of people. Edit: Think about therapy; the most important thing to do initially for a LOT of people is learn to identify their emotions. People sometimes have to learn what anxiety is to be able to even describe how they feel.
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May 10, 2022 18:29
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Fister Roboto posted:If calling them conservatives or libertarians will make you feel better, then fine. People should be wary when conservatives hop onto a social movement because their support is usually only out of self-interest, and will end as soon as their interests are served. Is that better? They should be wary. When you decided it was a core component of a political philosophy where it wasn't, was the problem
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May 10, 2022 18:29
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Lib and let die posted:I think people are justifiably going to be, at the very least, skeptical of "new blood" into direct action communities/movements over Roe (or any controversial decision, really) - whether that direct action is overtly signalling to the ruling class that It'd Be A drat Shame If Something Happened To That Nice Home Of Yours, I Sure Hope You're Keeping Up On The Insurance Payments or ad-hoc leaderless networks of individuals moving women in and out of particular states for whatever medical procedure is legal/not legal where they need to be - the former especially. A sloppy, careless agent with no heed for opsec could easily compromise themselves and the women they cater to and ultimately the entire mutual aid network. This is the completely wrong approach. Every year people age into being politically active, and when the old guard is actively hostile to them and new ideas on how to do things it only fractures the potential size of the movement. Telling an 18-year-old to learn the ways of the past and how they have failed is useful, but only to a point.
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May 10, 2022 18:29
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Main Paineframe posted:Actually, I crossed out "introduced" because I was on my phone and didn't have a chance to check. They have, in fact, introduced it. Supporting a bill that has a chance of passing would be a great start.
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May 10, 2022 18:30
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selec posted:There are distinct emotions of mourning and bloodlust (these are at best analogies, and not exact matches) that are experienced in individual cultures that are simply not present in others, just to give one example. Your second link specifically states that emotions are universal.
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May 10, 2022 18:33
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selec posted:I ask you to explain to me a concept that our culture has no words or concepts for, because you insist this is possible. Language and culture define us very, very deeply, and though it seems counterintuitive to think so, you cannot know a thing unless you can name it, so having no name for it as a culture makes it invisible to the vast majority of people. No, you're just completely misrepresenting research as woo bullshit.
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May 10, 2022 18:34
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Bel Shazar posted:Your second link specifically states that emotions are universal. It literally says “according to some theories” right at the top buddy. Some others disagree, and I think the research is pointing more and more that way.
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May 10, 2022 18:35
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:This is the completely wrong approach. Every year people age into being politically active, and when the old guard is actively hostile to them and new ideas on how to do things it only fractures the potential size of the movement. Telling an 18-year-old to learn the ways of the past and how they have failed is useful, but only to a point. A large issue is that in many places there is no institutional support from democrats or otherwise. Without support in hostile places, groups quickly dry up and for good reason. People who can leave do leave such areas. Often as new groups form and reform, they reinvent the wheel because there is no knowledge-base, cross-region or cross-movement support, either (there are exceptions to this) The other issue is that in a lot of hostile places, there is a direct threat of physical and other harm to anyone who wants to participate. This threat comes from a powerful, militarized police, from other government security forces, from hired corporate security, from counter-protesting groups and just from the state in general (hey now they have another way to threaten to take away your kids or if you are a kid, to hunt you down). It's always been this way to a degree, but a technological panopticon has allowed for would-be participants to be found easily and targeted anywhere. The idea of even a perfect, peaceful protest or strike that could lead to economic harm or violence has always made people iffy, especially if they are terrified of losing what little they do have. Now, they will try to find you anywhere. That's scary to a lot of people.
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May 10, 2022 18:36
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:This is the completely wrong approach. --snip-- It's called opsec. The pigs and the spooks in government practice it. Any mutual aid network worth its salt does, too. People are risking jailtime or worse to provide shuttle services over state lines. Zero trust is the only way mutual aid succeeds when it has to function in an openly oppressive system such as the US has. e: Cranappleberry makes the argument better than I do.
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May 10, 2022 18:36
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:No, you're just completely misrepresenting research as woo bullshit. Take it up with the anthropologists: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/06/01/529876861/an-anthropologist-discovers-the-terrible-emotion-locked-in-a-word
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May 10, 2022 18:37
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Professor Beetus posted:I mean if you read the press release it does show that much of her voting record at that point was supportive of reproductive health care. And part of political action at that level is to foster relationships like that. The fact that Collins and Murkowski have collapsed into spineless puddles in recent years doesn't really change that calculus. In what way is voting for one of the most anti-abortion judges on the court consistent with "much of her voting record supporting reproductive health care", it's like saying well Mrs Lincoln you have to admit much of the evening at the theater was very nice. Reminds of me of hearing how Hillary voted with Bernie 99% of the time sounds great except the 1% is all the important stuff
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May 10, 2022 18:39
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selec posted:It literally says “according to some theories” right at the top buddy. Some others disagree, and I think the research is pointing more and more that way. That's great. Your wikipedia link sucks for trying to make that point.
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May 10, 2022 18:39
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selec posted:I have faith in the motivations of most Dem voters, if also believing that most of them have been inculcated into beliefs about society that it’s really hard to tear them away from. Right? "I work 55 hours a week with an rear end in a top hat boss for $15/hour, catch "points" every time I've 10 minutes late and paid off my student loans so why can't everybody else?" "If you don't want medical bills, then just don't get sick and, if you do, make sure you have a job like mine that treats me like a slave so you only have to pay $15,000 for it instead of $125,000! Maybe they won't hold the time off you need for rehab, mandatory doctor visits and physical therapy against you and perhaps won't replace you with a kid fresh out of college with no children that'll work for $13.50." So simple. Just spend every waking hour of your free time working like god intended. You can enjoy life when you're 70 or look forward to heaven when you're dead. "Oh, look! There's a funny Pepsi commercial on the Tee Vee!"
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May 10, 2022 18:40
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selec posted:Take it up with the anthropologists: That is not research. That's just a dude telling a story. stop peddling woo. Cranappleberry posted:A large issue is that in many places there is no institutional support from democrats or otherwise. Without support in hostile places, groups quickly dry up and for good reason. People who can leave do leave such areas. Often as new groups form and reform, they reinvent the wheel because there is no knowledge-base, cross-region or cross-movement support, either (there are exceptions to this) What does any of this have to do with the original point of getting upset at people joining your cause is counter-productive. op-sec is one thing, but hostility to new ideas and members is just self-defeating. Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 18:46 on May 10, 2022 |
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May 10, 2022 18:42
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selec posted:Take it up with the anthropologists: The research you're referencing now is this man's wife died and he felt something that therapy didn't help but cathartic release did, and then this links to his book of poetry and photography.
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May 10, 2022 18:43
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Having been born into an era of dystopia and hopelessness I've been marinating in it for my entire life. Most of the time I think the best thing that I can do is donate money, get out of the way of people who still have hope and not drag the hopeful down into my pit.
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May 10, 2022 18:43
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:That is not research. That's just a dude telling a story. stop peddling woo. Is your assertion that this guy doesn’t know what he’s been studying for years or what? That the phenomena hasn’t been studied? We are getting pretty anti-intellectual here in an attempt to own a poster. Here’s a different expert in a different field who is saying the same thing: https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/25/im-extremely-controversial-the-psychologist-rethinking-human-emotion Is she also a kook?
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May 10, 2022 18:44
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:This is the completely wrong approach. Every year people age into being politically active, and when the old guard is actively hostile to them and new ideas on how to do things it only fractures the potential size of the movement. Telling an 18-year-old to learn the ways of the past and how they have failed is useful, but only to a point. 18 year olds are not being referred to. what is being referred to is you, and other people very freshly arrived to the revelation 'democrats had no intention of protecting abortion rights, and have no intention of doing so in the future.' such people are welcome to join. their voices, due to their tremendous inexperience and long years of faulty thinking up to this point, are not going to be given serious consideration until such time as it is clear they have figured out -why- they were wrong in the first place. you do not let an intern drive the forklift on their first day, because they could hurt themselves and a lot of the people around them. a similar principle applies. you are a dangerous person, through minimal fault of your own, and will be treated as such by any organization interested in protecting its members, until such time as you are not.
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May 10, 2022 18:45
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Professor Beetus posted:My point is that you are banging on about an unprovable because I have no idea what "people" means in this case because people very clearly have been mad and upset about the erosion of rights and have been active politically to try and push back against it. Who specifically are you talking about? It seems like you are making the exact same assumptions about others that you get angry about posters here making about you (i.e. all you're doing is posting about it). I never said I was the only one angry about this; I said I've watched liberals either ignore the ramifications of Casey or make excuses for anti-choice Dems over the past three decades. I'm pretty sure that includes several dnd'ers of yore (bc I distinctly remember arguing with some trying to minimize Casey), but my anger hasn't been directed toward Oracle or dnd posters but rather the Dem party, as I've specifically laid out in subsequent posts. I don't understand people trying to personalize this as an Angry Willa issue when I've made it clear whom I blame.
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May 10, 2022 18:45
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selec posted:Is your assertion that this guy doesn’t know what he’s been studying for years or what? That the phenomena hasn’t been studied? He wasn't studying the emotion "liget" for years. He was studying the Ifugao tribe. He learned what it meant after he lost his wife.
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May 10, 2022 18:45
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Two Puerto Rican mayors have been arrested by the FBI in a large bribery conspiracy investigation. Looking at the details, this is probably just the beginning; the two conspiracies appear to involve the same businesses, and the municipalities are geographically separated. Worth also noting that mayors are fairly significant figures in PR.
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May 10, 2022 18:45
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Dick Trauma posted:Having been born into an era of dystopia and hopelessness I've been marinating in it for my entire life. Most of the time I think the best thing that I can do is donate money, get out of the way of people who still have hope and not drag the hopeful down into my pit. I will just say that as someone whose job aligns closely to the nonprofit sector...do your research. Food banks, shelters, clothing giveaways (sometimes your local Church can cover 2 out of 3 of these, and point you to a good shelter in your community) are key. Forget Habitat for Humanity, we've got way more houses already built than will ever be needed. 20 cans of $1 beans from the grocery store will do more good than a $100 check to Ronald McDonald House that some poo poo company like Blackbaud is going to take 15% of for themselves anyway.
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May 10, 2022 18:47
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