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Willa Rogers posted:So that'd be a no, I take it, about whether there are examples of effective Dem messaging? Because it seems as if interpretive distortions come into play every time I circle back to my original question. Did someone say they did? Were you asking a specific person?
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May 14, 2022 18:12
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^^^ Did someone say what?RBA Starblade posted:The poll I sourced was more recent than these, indicating that the public has turned around on who they think is most responsible. You'd need to compare the Ipsos results against Ipsos results to prove that "the public has turned around," but sure, the rhetoric could have swayed the results into voters believing in Putinflation over the ensuing weeks.
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May 14, 2022 18:13
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The democrats are great for reaching trump adjacent voters! Start by telling people at the bar how they and the world of common folks are getting turbo hosed, and explain how the dems can't/won't help. You've got their ear! Then play on the ever common toxic masculinity with "Trump and the Republicans only care for the rich people, they're fooling you and making you their bitch. Don't be their bitch!" Then explain how only power matters, and the only important power the common man can truly wield is standing up together with their neighbors, hitting the powers that be where it counts (their money and ability to aquire ever more), and being tough enough or having the grit to go out in the streets and risk facing violence to bring it to em. People want to feel tough and empowered. Provided they don't start talking about "the jews", you may have a tenuous alliance! Note this will not work nearly as well on avowed racists or wealthy democrat establishment types (not gonna use the L word). It also probably helps that I look like a skyrim NPC with the dirt setting turned up. BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 19:18 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 19:16
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BougieBitch posted:As someone that has been working for a nonprofit for the last year, it works a lot better when the federal government is also part of the process. getting tired of being taken out of context: I was responding to someone who said internet leftists were easily discouraged from doing anything when the reality is voting and volunteering for campaigns are not the only things and also they do not help that individual make a difference on policy or in people's lives. More specifically, about the abortion issue but bodily autonomy a bit more generally, as well. When it comes to making a real difference in your own life and the lives of other individuals, the best thing for most people to do is volunteer for something local, and, no, it's not just charities but they might be the only thing available because leftist or lgbtq+ orgs may not be operating in that area for a variety of reasons. More generally, I have posted about the following I think 3 times now? One of the reasons local political organizations die is because they lack institutional support from any national or regional apparatus or political party. Compare this to the right-wing which is funded, astroturfed and has volunteers ready to go everywhere. The democratic party is out of touch with grass roots efforts and out of touch with most voters in general. They have let movements wither on the vine and die because, compared to soliciting donations about issues that they never seek to solve, it's not a money-maker or power-getter (in their minds) and if you don't vote for them or donate then the other guys might win and they're worse. It also allows people who are not part of their party apparatus to potentially gain power and authority. And to say they don't work without some sort of endowment... that often turns charity into or is a type of white-washing or turn it into a business with people making ridiculous salaries and having high-class dinners in the name of "charity." Not always, but it does. There is plenty of community support that definitely does need help but does not rely on that level of support or even government support or else is constantly, constantly competing for what little help they can get. Furthermore, many local charities and political orgs lack government support, often because they lack political support for the aforementioned reason but also because there aren't enough dollars to go around, which is really surprising for a number of reasons (like how much money is spent not feeding and clothing people) but also, to return to the topic my post was actually about, because governments fund... Crisis Pregnancy Centers. As a places where people can go to get help (which they have to jump through many hoops to get, if any at all is available, such as diapers). The CDC website lists them as resources! If the government were doing it's job then most local charity stuff wouldn't be needed (though it likely always will be). If the government actually protected civil rights on every level, then this wouldn't be such a huge issue. But it doesn't. It actually does stuff that actively works to harm people. Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 20:25 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 20:11
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Willa Rogers posted:^^^ Did someone say what? Did someone say dems did effective messaging? Are you replying to a specific post or argument?
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May 14, 2022 20:14
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Jaxyon posted:Did someone say dems did effective messaging? I asked whether Dems had effective messaging like the GOP does, as in the context bolded below: Willa Rogers posted:Bolding this bc the whole broken-clock trope is about a clock that's "truthful" twice a day. I'm unclear on what your issue is with my bringing up Dem messaging while discussing GOP messaging. Why would I have to bring it up in response to a direct question about Dem messaging, rather than bring it up to compare to GOP messaging? Seriously, some of these "rebuttals" to what I said are really a stretch.
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May 14, 2022 20:46
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about the truth as much as you want, but the counterargument is the effectiveness of this sort of signaling, from the I DID THIS stickers of Biden at gas pumps to Let's Go Brandon becoming shorthand for not only gently caress Joe Biden but the ability of news media to distort reality through obfuscation.
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Willa Rogers posted:I asked whether Dems had effective messaging like the GOP does, as in the context bolded below: So in that context, you did as I said was happening in this thread(I reversed the order before accidentally). We've gone from the bailey of "what if we give MTG a chance to say something bad about dems" to the motte of "is messaging effective". Yes messaging is effective. Nobody has said it isn't. People are at best arguing about how specifically effective gas pump stickers are in driving discourse vs other angles. You're asking about whether dems are effective at messaging, to a group of people that doesn't think they are, and implying that nobody answering a question you've aimed at nobody is a refusal to engage. You're ignoring the context of MTG tweets. The only two groups they work on are people already into MTG and those people already couldn't possibly hate AOC or the dems more, and internet leftists, who mostly dislike AOC and also already hate the dems. Pump stickers are more effective than MTG tweets at getting reachable people which is why we've shifted the conversation to that and now we're going to pretend they're basically the same thing in order to attempt to rehabilitate what was an obvious bait post from VS. Eventually we can make this motte big enough that we can say we owned the libs I guess.
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May 14, 2022 21:28
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Another right-wing piece of poo poo livestreamed himself shooting up a supermarket, this time in Buffalo NY. There are at least 8 confirmed dead and it appears that he was taken into custody. https://twitter.com/IwriteOK/status/1525572912836554752?s=20&t=N_MoPbV6c8vrCVJ3nc1CgQ
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May 14, 2022 21:43
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FlamingLiberal posted:Another right-wing piece of poo poo livestreamed himself shooting up a supermarket, this time in Buffalo NY. There are at least 8 confirmed dead and it appears that he was taken into custody. oh good, an explicit Christchurch copycat, sure needed that added to the pile.
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May 14, 2022 22:07
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FlamingLiberal posted:Another right-wing piece of poo poo livestreamed himself shooting up a supermarket, this time in Buffalo NY. There are at least 8 confirmed dead and it appears that he was taken into custody. Another dipshit who couldn't get laid. The Sunday after Columbine happened our priest gave a sermon and literally said "if you're thinking of killing a bunch of people, and then yourself, kill yourself first." That said, I'm glad the news isn't putting out the guy's name or picture. We don't need to give them press or fame, just prison and the memory hole.
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May 14, 2022 22:17
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Hopefully, the cops didn't take him to burger king before jail this time.
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May 14, 2022 22:21
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How long until we find out the Buffalo shooter is a big Ben Shapiro fan?
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May 14, 2022 22:42
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Hopefully, the cops didn't take him to burger king before jail this time. They made sure his pillows were extra fluffed and tucked him in goodnight before heading out to shoot someone's dog
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May 14, 2022 22:56
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azflyboy posted:How long until we find out the Buffalo shooter is a big Ben Shapiro fan? Apparently the shooter said he was a communist before he became a nazi in the manifesto? How in the gently caress? Anyone have a link to the manifesto? PM it if you’re uncomfortable giving this piece of poo poo more publicity.
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May 14, 2022 23:01
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MLSM posted:Apparently the shooter said he was a communist before he became a nazi in the manifesto? How in the gently caress? I've noticed this before in alt-right trolls, often saying they used to be leftists but the woke mob pushed them to become nazis. My hypothesis is that it's like a diet false flag, trying to muddy the waters and give right-wing media a chance to blame the attack on "communists" to people who won't bother to look any further into it.
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May 14, 2022 23:07
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The typical right-heads already saying any political discussion of his motives is in poor taste.
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May 14, 2022 23:18
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enahs posted:I've noticed this before in alt-right trolls, often saying they used to be leftists but the woke mob pushed them to become nazis. My hypothesis is that it's like a diet false flag, trying to muddy the waters and give right-wing media a chance to blame the attack on "communists" to people who won't bother to look any further into it. It absolutely 150% is. Like it's been openly admitted and whenever someone's fake Twitter or whatever gets exposed they are always claiming to be a former leftist black woman who was driven into the loving arms of Trump by the woke mobs.
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May 14, 2022 23:19
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Someone in that twitter thread talked about how the prevalence of manifestos by these fuckers is helping proliferate the right-wing message and direction to others, effectively guiding the right, via decentralized leadership. 
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May 14, 2022 23:20
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It's going to keep getting worse. https://twitter.com/cd_hooks/status/1525591090526572544?s=20&t=6wGh84Eh_ryXox0wGSeVmA
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May 14, 2022 23:20
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my favorite examples of false flag left credit stuff is: 1) Dr Carson saying he was the stabbiest gang boy before he became good. 2) some no name fundie preacher from South America that said he was the gayest gay and his wife is an ex-prostitute that was the most prostitute prostitute ever, but then they both found jeeazus. PhazonLink fucked around with this message at 23:30 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 23:24
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MLSM posted:Apparently the shooter said he was a communist before he became a nazi in the manifesto? How in the gently caress? I think a lot of that may be down to how the alt-right defines "communist", since they think it encompasses everything to the left of whatever crap Tucker Carlson is saying this week
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May 14, 2022 23:25
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Why can't my city ever be in the news for something good!?
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May 14, 2022 23:28
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ImpAtom posted:It absolutely 150% is. Like it's been openly admitted and whenever someone's fake Twitter or whatever gets exposed they are always claiming to be a former leftist black woman who was driven into the loving arms of Trump by the woke mobs. I mean it really doesn't even matter. Even if it were 100% true that they were all hyper communists driven mad by woke culture they're demonstrating they had no buyin to that ideology in the first place. If you're a socialist who believes that the state should support the needs of the people, but one too many tweets about how JK Rowling is a transphobe made you decide actually some people aren't even people, you were a shitstain to begin with. It's a lie, but it's a lie of no consequence, they're telling on themselves either way.
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May 14, 2022 23:30
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I'll cross post this here just for the hell of it I have zero clue whatsoever to post what happened to me today. I live in NE FL and it was a nice day so I took my kid to the beach after we'd left a birthday party. Some big gently caress off truck with some big gently caress off flags had set up camp there. One big US Flag and another big gently caress BIDEN flag. I knew what I was doing and getting myself into when I did it but did it anyway. I very politely asked these gentlemen if they thought that displaying a giant gently caress flag was really appropriate and pointed out that there were a lot of young kids there. Now me, personally, I don't really give a poo poo by and large but I still found it to be impolite and in poor taste. I told them that I can't loving stand Joe Biden myself and understood their frustration, etc. etc. but maybe we can dial it down maybe just a tad in a family setting. I pointed several 6 and 7 year old kids. Holy poo poo. I took the bait and they were waiting to reel me in but I'm lying if I say I didn't do it on purpose. One guy pushed up in my face and got chest to chest with me almost immediately. I can't fight for poo poo but wasn't scared and kept pointing to my son. "He's 11 years old. Is this the example we want to set for children?" "Oh, so you're threatening me now?" The dude started lecturing me about the music I let my son listen to and the movies I let him watch. I told him that I monitor those things pretty strictly, that's my business and also pointed out that I wasn't blasting any music. But they were just looking for a fight that I wasn't going to give them unless they pushed for it. My son knows the word "gently caress" and hears me say it all the time. These assholes deliberately flew those flags to invoke a response. And they got one. On my way out, I asked the beach monitor/toll booth person if we were allowed to fly "gently caress _________" flags on the beach. She advised me to call the sheriff, lol, and I passed. Gonna go out on a limb here and guess how that might have gone or, further, if I was flying a BLM flag or one that said "gently caress COPS". See how that goes. Wish I had captured it on video but I was legit worried about getting sucker punched and needed my hands available. These people were looking for and ready for a fight right away.
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May 14, 2022 23:47
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The whole "I used to be a leftist BUT THEN" personal biography trope on the alt-right is just an inherited tic from the religious right. "I used to be the biggest piece of poo poo sinner around but now I'm on the right path" has been a common-as-dirt credibility play for, at the very least, decades
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May 14, 2022 23:49
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BiggerBoat posted:I'll cross post this here just for the hell of it
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May 14, 2022 23:50
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MLSM posted:Apparently the shooter said he was a communist before he became a nazi in the manifesto? How in the gently caress? He claims to have been a communist when he was 12 (what). A number of things in the manifesto comes across as ironic or memey, the press is gonna have a really hard time deciphering it and will probably gently caress up the context about a lot of things.
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May 15, 2022 00:05
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Another shooting at a coffee shop in LA. Two people injured. https://twitter.com/TinaDesireeBerg/status/1525612058565234689
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May 15, 2022 00:08
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Another shooting at a coffee shop in LA. Two people injured. ah poo poo, that's not a coffee shop, that's the exterior of a big indoor market. it's usually pretty packed in there, i really hope it's just a few injuries
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May 15, 2022 00:15
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Dude don't touch the poop I'm OK with it.
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May 15, 2022 00:32
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Found these interesting stats when I went to the LAT for news on the shooting:quote:The crisis has been deepening for months, as millions of parents scramble to feed their children. But low-income mothers such as Gutierrez have been hit particularly hard. About half of all infant formula sold in the United States is purchased through the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children, or WIC, which pays for food for pregnant people and children under 5 living in or near poverty. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-05-13/baby-formula-shortage-worsens-families-take-desperate-steps Seems that Abbott should be incentivized to produce some safe formula given what's likely tens of billions of dollars in WIC contracts.
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May 15, 2022 00:37
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm OK with it. I think this is the 2nd time in a month you've posted about someone getting in your face about stuff like this. Please be careful because I would not trust any of these people.
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May 15, 2022 00:52
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:The whole "I used to be a leftist BUT THEN" personal biography trope on the alt-right is just an inherited tic from the religious right. "I used to be the biggest piece of poo poo sinner around but now I'm on the right path" has been a common-as-dirt credibility play for, at the very least, decades It's also part of the "I used to be liberal but the liberals went too far left" narrative. Usually it's someone who was OK with gays and weed and thought that was as far as it should go, and then freaked out about trans people or something.
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May 15, 2022 00:53
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The extreme left > extreme right shift is indeed A Thing. I don't think it's a very common thing, but it happens. There's definitely people out there who feel alienated by society and subsequently drift towards beliefs / ideologies that are on the fringes of that society. My partner knew a person a few years back who was an outspoken Communist with the tattoos and everything, had their brain crack-ping'd by Trump's election, and a couple of years later was dipping into q-anon and was overtly white-supremacist. He ended up having a huge personal and internet meltdown and leaving the town we were living in because people started boycotting his business and, unsurprisingly, mentioning how grossly racist he was on his yelp reviews. It happens 
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May 15, 2022 01:20
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GoutPatrol posted:I think this is the 2nd time in a month you've posted about someone getting in your face about stuff like this. Please be careful because I would not trust any of these people. I'm not scared of these people. The last incident I posted was some guy giving a cashier at my local convenience store/gas station some poo poo who then semi directed it at me. I don't control the crazy in the zip code I live in and people are entirely off the loving rails here. Just reporting from the ground and I've tried to pepper the thread with anecdotal things that speak to the national sense of things. Or at least the things I see in one of the craziest states in the union (FL) Only thing that might have made it bad or escalated things today is if I'd followed the toll booth lady's advice and called the cops, to which I just laughed. There was no reason to involve the police in this and, if I had, I'd probably be the one getting shaken down. These people weren't gonna do poo poo unless I started it. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 01:23 on May 15, 2022 |
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May 15, 2022 01:20
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Another shooting at a coffee shop in LA. Two people injured. Holy poo poo this country
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May 15, 2022 01:23
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BiggerBoat posted:I'm OK with it. I think it's a shot thong to have to deal with, but what we have to do. Continue to confront this poo poo. Not just turn and ignore it cause "they'll never learn" or "its what they want". That's just going to let that behavior spread. No push back, no accountability.
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May 15, 2022 01:26
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does anyone know if the man on the ground made it, or what was his deal?
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May 15, 2022 01:31
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The Bananana posted:I think it's a shot thong to have to deal with, but what we have to do. Continue to confront this poo poo. Not just turn and ignore it cause "they'll never learn" or "its what they want". That's just going to let that behavior spread. No push back, no accountability. It’s more that you should turn around and ignore it because “they might shoot you”
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May 15, 2022 01:41
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Kavros posted:does anyone know if the man on the ground made it, or what was his deal? I doubt it. He was guppy breathing already.
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May 15, 2022 01:43
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