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Farking Bastage posted:Maybe we should change all those thin blue line stickers into a thin yellow line, but I googled it and apparently those are for tow truck drivers. I've seen a Thin Green Line flag for sanitation workers and honestly it makes more sense than cops because garbage removal actually saves lives.
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May 27, 2022 15:17
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BonoMan posted:This is a tough read, but here's an account of what went on from one of the students in there. I read in another story that her friend was still breathing and basically just bled out while the cops forbade the public from entering the building.
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May 27, 2022 15:45
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At this point it seems like the DoJ or FBI needs to step in and take over the investigation, like 2 days ago.
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May 27, 2022 16:02
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CuddleCryptid posted:I've seen a Thin Green Line flag for sanitation workers and honestly it makes more sense than cops because garbage removal actually saves lives. It's also more dangerous than being a cop
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May 27, 2022 16:03
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CmdrRiker posted:I read in another story that her friend was still breathing and basically just bled out while the cops forbade the public from entering the building. That's absolutely hosed. I certainly don't think images/videos of the carnage should be published, but I do wish there were a way to get the average gun-fucker to understand what it actually looks like when a room full of innocent people -- children in this case -- are massacred with a firearm. How many of them really understand the difference between a bullet entering a human being, and what that looks like and sounds like, and the paper targets they shoot while fantasizing about shooting a minority "criminal?" I've seen a guy get shot point-blank in the head, and my cousin lived in Parkland, so for some unknowable reason he sent me video from one of the students inside the school. It's hosed up poo poo. It's absolutely a vile assault on all the senses; an abhorrent crime that, even when justified in self-defense or so, takes us further away from our shared humanity. It ain't like the movies, I'll loving promise you that. It took a year or two before a loud car exhaust or fireworks didn't put me on edge, but even so... the sound of the real thing is different in a way that I can't explain in words.
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May 27, 2022 16:04
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Willa Rogers posted:Now that I think of it, I bet Schumer's leaning on "domestic terrorism" to the exclusion of everything else because the Dems, in their elite & removed-from-most-voters wisdom, are hanging their hats on the upcoming televised congressional hearings on America's Darkest Day 1/6 Never Forget, which are scheduled to begin when they get back from their current vacation. In a just world the 1/6 people and their inciters would be going through the criminal justice system. Instead, the inciters remain underained, and in many cases, still in office, and we get congressional hearings. South Korea sends it's presidents to jail on the regular. They seem to have the right idea.
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May 27, 2022 16:20
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The photos from the classroom should be published in full color on the front page of every newspaper every day for the next week and shown on television at the top and bottom of every hour. If we'd been forced to look at that picture of the Sandy Hook bathroom we might not be here. Instead, a loving horror scene of unimaginable proportions is reduced to text and no one except the parents and first responders actually has to deal with the loving carnage our Moloch-worship encourages. Every newspaper, every day. Pictures of destroyed, mangled children can replace the Jumble puzzle! "HAMBURGER HELPER OR CHILD WHO'S SUFFERED TOO MUCH FREEDOM?" "GUESS THE AGE OF THIS MANGLED CHILD'S DESTROYED BODY AND WIN A WAFFLE IRON." "CAN YOU FIGURE OUT HOW MANY BODIES ARE IN THIS PILE OF BLOODY MEAT?" A picture's worth a thousand words, and just like with COVID, the US news media only ever gives us words about this poo poo. It's time to start actually showing "the awful price of freedom."
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May 27, 2022 16:25
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JonathonSpectre posted:The photos from the classroom should be published in full color on the front page of every newspaper every day for the next week and shown on television at the top and bottom of every hour. It didn't work for tobacco, what makes you think it's gonna work for guns?
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May 27, 2022 16:30
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JonathonSpectre posted:The photos from the classroom should be published in full color on the front page of every newspaper every day for the next week and shown on television at the top and bottom of every hour. honestly i understand the sentiment but don't see this accomplishing much more than retraumatizing the survivors.
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May 27, 2022 16:31
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Lib and let die posted:It didn't work for tobacco, what makes you think it's gonna work for guns? It did work for tobacco though  
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May 27, 2022 16:33
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KillHour posted:It did work for tobacco though I very specifically said "tobacco" - does this data provide for vapes as well? It seems fairly out-of-context.
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May 27, 2022 16:35
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Lib and let die posted:I very specifically said "tobacco" - does this data provide for vapes as well? It seems fairly out-of-context. Vapes don't contain tobacco.
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May 27, 2022 16:38
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Lib and let die posted:I very specifically said "tobacco" - does this data provide for vapes as well? It seems fairly out-of-context.  are you sure you meant tobacco? are you thinking of nicotine?
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May 27, 2022 16:42
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Lib and let die posted:I very specifically said "tobacco" - does this data provide for vapes as well? It seems fairly out-of-context. I can't find any good charts on it in the 2 minutes of searching I just did, but the majority of that chart takes place before vaping was really a thing, and the CDC seems to include vaping in its numbers for cigarette use, at least. "* Smoking and tobacco use here refer to use of commercial tobacco products and not to tobacco used for medicinal and spiritual purposes by some American Indian communities." https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7111a1.htm I can't say whether or not vaping reversed the trend, but I do know that the propaganda against smoking was working very well prior to vaping and the big push around vaping was "it's not as bad for you as cigarettes (maybe)," which undercut all that messaging. I doubt the gun industry is going to be able to invent a radical new way to shoot people that has a facade of being less associated with school shootings, but the possibility of them doing so doesn't mean it's pointless. Advertising works. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:
I was going to say this, but the CDC calls vapes "smokeless tobacco products" for some dumb reason and it doesn't impact my point at all so whatever.
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May 27, 2022 16:43
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'd like to stress then that this situation is exactly what Defund the police are talking about when they say the police can't and won't protect you. The Department was highly trained, highly funded, and repeatedly trained for school shootings because we've decided that we can't stop them but a swift tactical response is good enough. jfc quote:When specially equipped federal immigration agents arrived at the elementary school in Uvalde, Texas on Tuesday, the local police at the scene would not allow them to go after the gunman who had opened fire on students inside the school, according to two officials briefed on the situation. 
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May 27, 2022 16:46
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They weren’t a death squad, they were just confused https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgdea3/docs-reveal-chaotic-planning-execution-of-raid-that-killed-portland-antifa-shooter-michael-reinoehl Abolish now. There is no redeeming a system where the majority of the people working in it see this as an acceptable outcome.
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May 27, 2022 16:48
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Bubbacub posted:jfc What's the source on this quote?
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May 27, 2022 16:49
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Papercut posted:What's the source on this quote? https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/27/us/texas-school-shooting
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May 27, 2022 16:51
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Thanks
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May 27, 2022 16:55
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JonathonSpectre posted:The photos from the classroom should be published in full color on the front page of every newspaper every day for the next week and shown on television at the top and bottom of every hour. Are you under the impression that the gun nuts don't see this as a horrible tragedy? I assure you that they do, but they see it as being caused by a lone psycho in a vacuum and easy access to guns has nothing to do with it. Their solution is more guns and more money for cops to protect against shooters. They are never going to come to the realization that you want them to.
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May 27, 2022 17:11
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Fister Roboto posted:Are you under the impression that the gun nuts don't see this as a horrible tragedy? I assure you that they do, but they see it as being caused by a lone psycho in a vacuum and easy access to guns has nothing to do with it. Their solution is more guns and more money for cops to protect against shooters. They are never going to come to the realization that you want them to. I think it would be useful to convince people who still think more policing is the solution to finally disavow them of that and hopefully push them into solutions that happen before anyone is in a school with a gun. The actual gun nuts are locked in though. They also think this is a tragedy but they believe with religious fervor that everyone should have the freedom to walk in and start shooting and solutions can only be how we respond. Anything else would lead to a far worse world in their head.
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May 27, 2022 17:14
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Gumball Gumption posted:I think it would be useful to convince people who still think more policing is the solution to finally disavow them of that and hopefully push them into solutions that happen before anyone is in a school with a gun. The actual gun nuts are locked in though. They also think this is a tragedy but they believe with religious fervor that everyone should have the freedom to walk in and start shooting and solutions can only be how we respond. Anything else would lead to a far worse world in their head. The problem with that is that they already believe that Communist Joe Biden has defunded the police everywhere, so they can just blame any failures of the cops on that.
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May 27, 2022 17:20
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Fister Roboto posted:The problem with that is that they already believe that Communist Joe Biden has defunded the police everywhere, so they can just blame any failures of the cops on that. Yeah good point, honestly public opinion has no real effect on policy so it doesn't matter what people believe outside of a handful of olds in DC. Still publish the pictures, gently caress shielding anyone from the horror.
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May 27, 2022 17:26
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Ideologies cannot fail; they can only be failed. There is no amount of death that will make people think "I am wrong." What can change people's minds is being exposed to other viewpoints repeatedly and consistently, but the promise of a global communications medium that connects all ideas and beliefs and lets the best ones rise to the top was just as much of a lie as the idea that the free market will produce only the best organizations. For the exact same reasons.
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May 27, 2022 17:27
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KillHour posted:It did work for tobacco though I would argue that was less the imagery on the packaging and more a combination of the health effects, long term use making you less attractive, and societal opinion on everything smelling like stale cigarettes.
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May 27, 2022 17:32
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Lib and let die posted:It didn't work for tobacco, what makes you think it's gonna work for guns? It didn't bring justice to the killers, but it definitely did force some changes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till
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May 27, 2022 17:44
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New good guy with a gun just dropped https://twitter.com/GrantforTN/status/1530226432261111810?s=20&t=dhWKayaee_fZ8PyoIX7jtg
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May 27, 2022 17:46
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Bishyaler posted:New good guy with a gun just dropped Its a statistical anomaly. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25910555/ Less than 1% of times does a Good guy with a gun manage to both get the drop on the attacker AND eliminate them without them being eliminated themselves. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/how-the-good-guy-with-a-gun-became-a-deadly-american-fantasy
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May 27, 2022 17:56
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Dick Trauma posted:Republicans don't have leaders; they have wranglers. They poke and prod their voters from one talking point to the next. Who said "It's the economy, stupid." Oh yeah, Bill Clinton. And he was right. And this will insure a massive GOP sweep in the fall. So what I don't understand, using gasoline prices as an example, if the companies are enjoying record profits WHERE IS THE DOJ? why isn't there a investigation into price fixing etc?
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May 27, 2022 17:58
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They just keep making themselves look worse. https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/1530224936157073408 https://twitter.com/TheViewFromLL2/status/1530230186398126083 https://twitter.com/Anthony/status/1530233093759676416 Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 18:02
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CommieGIR posted:Its a statistical anomaly. "Of over 14,000 incidents in which the victim was present, 127 (0.9%) involved a Self-Defense Gun Use." So this article is drawing the conclusion that self-defense isn't effective because victims weren't armed? Regardless, what I posted is a success story and that woman saved countless lives.
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May 27, 2022 18:03
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Fister Roboto posted:Are you under the impression that the gun nuts don't see this as a horrible tragedy? I assure you that they do, but they see it as being caused by a lone psycho in a vacuum and easy access to guns has nothing to do with it. Their solution is more guns and more money for cops to protect against shooters. They are never going to come to the realization that you want them to. Part of the reason Australia reacted so strongly to Port Arthur was that footage of all the dead bodies was widely broadcast. I agree that a lot of Americans don’t know what a room full of murdered children looks like and that they deserve to have that knowledge inflicted on them.
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May 27, 2022 18:07
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Bishyaler posted:"Of over 14,000 incidents in which the victim was present, 127 (0.9%) involved a Self-Defense Gun Use." So this article is drawing the conclusion that self-defense isn't effective because victims weren't armed? quote:Conclusions: Compared to other protective actions, the National Crime Victimization Surveys provide little evidence that SDGU is uniquely beneficial in reducing the likelihood of injury or property loss. The conclusion you didn't read in the abstract is that the NCV surveys do not provide much evidence that using a gun instead of anything else really matters when it comes to personal defense.
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May 27, 2022 18:10
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Bishyaler posted:"Of over 14,000 incidents in which the victim was present, 127 (0.9%) involved a Self-Defense Gun Use." So this article is drawing the conclusion that self-defense isn't effective because victims weren't armed? Yes but that doesn't make it useful, hence being an anomaly, it doesn't make it something to uphold as an example as the norm. Again, Buffalo being a good example: There was an armed guard. He was killed before everyone else. https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1530219824156139523?s=20&t=s7GucF7qqOPQb8ofzGML1g
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May 27, 2022 18:11
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I’m still convinced that ultimately they know a cop shot somebody they shouldn’t have and poo poo the bed responding to the shooter in the school because they also needed to cover that up, but who knows, they’re obviously covering something up
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May 27, 2022 18:12
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CommieGIR posted:Yes but that doesn't make it useful, hence being an anomaly, it doesn't make it something to uphold as an example as the norm. An armed guard putting himself in harms way arguably bought time for others to escape, and barring the body armor (or if he had a more powerful weapon), he would've also likely ended that rampage.
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May 27, 2022 18:13
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Bishyaler posted:An armed guard putting himself in harms way arguably bought time for others to escape, and barring the body armor (or if he had a more powerful weapon), he would've also likely ended that rampage. So, your argument is we need more guns. That's not a solution, that doesn't even ADDRESS the problem, that's just pretending that the Good Guy With a Gun works. It does not.
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May 27, 2022 18:13
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National news was on in the work cafeteria today, the anchor was incensed that the police waited outside, biding their time, as shots were being fired and children were being killed. He was just hammering home how long it was, how many shots, and how little they did. Definitely surprising to hear from the NBC (or whatever) news dude.
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May 27, 2022 18:14
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Bishyaler posted:An armed guard putting himself in harms way arguably bought time for others to escape, and barring the body armor (or if he had a more powerful weapon), he would've also likely ended that rampage. More cops would have solved it, obviously. How could we be so dumb when the answer is so simple.
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May 27, 2022 18:17
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I AM GRANDO posted:Part of the reason Australia reacted so strongly to Port Arthur was that footage of all the dead bodies was widely broadcast. I agree that a lot of Americans don’t know what a room full of murdered children looks like and that they deserve to have that knowledge inflicted on them. Seeing the crime scene photos of the Port Arthur cafe had a profound effect on me - it's one thing to read about a number of dead it's entirely different to actually see it. Even though gun control has all the empirical evidence behind it the images of the broken bodies of the victims are what made it really sink in. People talk about how desensitized we are but the truth is everything is sanitized. It's not like when we do war reporting we show the mangled bodies of soldiers or the people our forces killed. Bishyaler posted:An armed guard putting himself in harms way arguably bought time for others to escape, and barring the body armor (or if he had a more powerful weapon), he would've also likely ended that rampage. Running away is more effective than being armed as a self defense method. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 18:19 on May 27, 2022 |
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