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Discendo Vox posted:As has been documented multiple times, Manchin votes reliably with the Democrats on many issues, including critically, judicial appointments. this might surprise you, but you don't gotta hand it to him for voting to confirm judges when the dude just as consistently shits on everything else. maybe he'd be more useful to the democrats in a dumpster, or perhaps a woodchipper i'm just going to copy paste poo poo from wikipedia about every regressive stance this clown has quote:Abortion "We can't put pressure on this guy who consistently votes against important things because he confirms judges." e: yes, yes, democrats are a waste, succ, etc, realism, whatever. in an ideal world where the dems weren't worse than useless maybe they'd start their fixing their "nobody votes for us because they see us as useless people who get nothing done" image problems by getting rid of, or putting pressure on, the very people who contribute to that image.
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May 30, 2022 00:28
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ImpAtom posted:There is a difference between "you must do whatever" and "I'm 150% okay with being a fascist as long as it aligns with my goals because there is absolutely no way that could ever backfire." The reason why you don't want to just copy the other side's playbook is because the other side is using a dangerous horrifying playbook whose actions lead almost universally to horrifying abuse and trying to use the weapons of evil for good lasts exactly as long as someone who is 'good' doesn't decide to use them for evil. democrats using the instruments of government to accomplish their political goals is not fascism, ImpAtom. I understand the Republican Party has been telling you this for as long as you live, and that the Democratic Party has found it useful to agree with them as an excuse for not taking action. but it is possible, even laudable, for a government to seek to accomplish its goals, and use the judiciary as a tool to do so. there is a point in the Second French Revolution, in 1848, where the revolutionaries have seized control. and they are faced with the conditions that lead to the much-feared Terror of the first. all are well read in history, and know of its horrors. and so they come down hard on those who seek to root out their enemies, because this time, reason and moderacy will win the day. what do you think the monarchists did in reaction. do you think they applauded this act of fair play, and spared those who made this decision from their lists of traitors to be executed? you may have heard the line from various infuriating cosplayers: "when our turn comes we will not apologize for the Terror." it is not (exclusively) born of posturing bravado. it is born from a study of the first French Terror, and of the second. and the revelation that when you decide you will take the high road, and refuse to fight the fascists out of a sense of moral squeamishness, you are not just slitting your own throat. you are condemning all the poor dumb fucks who listened to you to decades of persecution at the hands of the triumphant right. read up on the Black Hundreds some time. the name sounds like something out of Warhammer 40k, and their deeds live up to the name. Laventiy Beria was a monster without compare in the modern imagination, and he was a step up from the people who came before him
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May 30, 2022 00:37
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Zamujasa posted:oh no! what is he going to do, continue to not support a single useful thing? The fear is that he stops being part of the caucus and hands over the majority to the Republicans. Don't know if it'll happen but that's the fear.
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May 30, 2022 00:39
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A 1 year old was shot and killed a few hours ago in downtown Pittsburgh via drive by, a block away from where I was hanging out. Cool.
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May 30, 2022 00:45
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Zamujasa posted:this might surprise you, but you don't gotta hand it to him for voting to confirm judges when the dude just as consistently shits on everything else. maybe he'd be more useful to the democrats in a dumpster, or perhaps a woodchipper You claimed he didn't support anything useful. You were wrong. You were apparently knowingly, deliberately wrong, so that you could poo poo on the thread. Setting aside his other votes, if you think voting to confirm federal judges isn't important, you really, really haven't been paying attention the last few weeks- which, oh right, was also covered in this thread. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 01:02 on May 30, 2022 |
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May 30, 2022 00:53
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Discendo Vox posted:You claimed he didn't support anything useful. You were wrong. You were apparently knowingly, deliberately wrong, so that you could poo poo on the thread. I'm not particularly arguing the overall case here but nothing in the American judiciary is an example of something useful.
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May 30, 2022 01:02
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:read up on the Black Hundreds some time. the name sounds like something out of Warhammer 40k, and their deeds live up to the name. Laventiy Beria was a monster without compare in the modern imagination, and he was a step up from the people who came before him Beria was so notorious that when Stalin's daughter, Svetlana, was alone in the dacha when Beria came over that Stalin told her to "get out of the house!" over the phone.
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May 30, 2022 01:10
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ImpAtom posted:There is a difference between "you must do whatever" and "I'm 150% okay with being a fascist as long as it aligns with my goals because there is absolutely no way that could ever backfire." The reason why you don't want to just copy the other side's playbook is because the other side is using a dangerous horrifying playbook whose actions lead almost universally to horrifying abuse and trying to use the weapons of evil for good lasts exactly as long as someone who is 'good' doesn't decide to use them for evil. It's not fascism to stop people from being free to murder school children no matter the path you take to it. This is just another example of how freedom is the God we're sacrificing our kids to. You'd love it if kids stopped dying but we need to follow unnecessary and byzantine processes that ends in kids still being killed. If we don't follow that process we lose freedom so we just have to accept the dead kids. Like did you absolutely lose sight of what this is about? Strong arm tactics are not necessarily fascist. Especially when those tactics are being used to secure women's rights and keeping children from being killed in their loving schools. You can't win women's rights the wrong way. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 01:23 on May 30, 2022 |
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May 30, 2022 01:19
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Gumball Gumption posted:It's not fascism to stop people from being free to murder school children no matter the path you take to it. This is just another example of how freedom is the God we're sacrificing our kids to. You'd love it if kids stopped dying but we need to follow unnecessary and byzantine processes that ends in kids still being killed. If we don't follow that process we lose freedom so we just have to accept the dead kids. Just to be clear: we are talking about using the DOJ to illegally threaten political rivals with inventing fake crimes to jail them on unless they vote the way we want. I don't really care what the ends are, those means are never justifiable.
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May 30, 2022 01:28
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Rigel posted:Just to be clear: we are talking about using the DOJ to illegally threaten political rivals with inventing fake crimes to jail them on unless they vote the way we want. Well no, not fake crimes. https://www.salon.com/2022/03/29/a-stunning-portrait-of-political-corruption-exactly-how-joe-manchin-made-millions-from-coal/ I'm pretty ok if charging people for real crimes they commit gets us fascist authoritarian universal healthcare, alive children getting a free education, and full bodily autonomy for all. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 01:34 on May 30, 2022 |
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May 30, 2022 01:30
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'm pretty ok if charging people for real crimes they commit gets us fascist authoritarian universal healthcare, alive children getting a free education, and full bodily autonomy for all. Ok, well it wouldn't get you that. It would get the President impeached, and DOJ prosecutors sanctioned (assuming they didn't all just quit), and have the courts toss out all the politically motivated charges.
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May 30, 2022 01:45
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Discendo Vox posted:You claimed he didn't support anything useful. You were wrong. You were apparently knowingly, deliberately wrong, so that you could poo poo on the thread. Setting aside his other votes, if you think voting to confirm federal judges isn't important, you really, really haven't been paying attention the last few weeks- which, oh right, was also covered in this thread. Hasn’t Manchin voted to confirm many federal judges nominated by trump?
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May 30, 2022 01:48
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Fart Amplifier posted:Ok, well it wouldn't get you that. It would get the President impeached, and DOJ prosecutors sanctioned (assuming they didn't all just quit), and have the courts toss out all the politically motivated charges. Fair, that's a way better argument than "it's fascist". Personally I still think attempting to pack the courts and using that to rally the midterms would be the best "radical" play from the Democrats. Between Roe v Wade and gun control you can convince people the sensible thing to do is have Congress yank the controls and put checks and balances back in place.
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May 30, 2022 01:49
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Discendo Vox posted:You claimed he didn't support anything useful. You were wrong. You were apparently knowingly, deliberately wrong, so that you could poo poo on the thread. Setting aside his other votes, if you think voting to confirm federal judges isn't important, you really, really haven't been paying attention the last few weeks- which, oh right, was also covered in this thread. Oh, right. quote:Manchin voted for Trump's first two Supreme Court nominees, Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh.
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May 30, 2022 01:53
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theCalamity posted:Hasn’t Manchin voted to confirm many federal judges nominated by trump? Zamujasa posted:Oh, right. How does that refute him voting for useful things as well? DV wasn't trying to make the claim that Manchin only voted for/supported useful things 
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May 30, 2022 01:56
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Gumball Gumption posted:Fair, that's a way better argument than "it's fascist". It's the same argument really. All of those things would happen because the President would be illegally wielding the executive law enforcement apparatus as a weapon to seize legislative power. I'm not sure why the suggestion is even allowed in this forum because it's such a loving juvenile fantasy that devolves into the same argument every time.
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May 30, 2022 01:59
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Fart Amplifier posted:Ok, well it wouldn't get you that. It would get the President impeached, and DOJ prosecutors sanctioned (assuming they didn't all just quit), and have the courts toss out all the politically motivated charges. In addition to this, I haven't seen any ways in which anyone's ever suggested that prosecuting Manchin will get all that stuff. The suggestions I've seen would work in one of two ways, in a best case scenario: 1. We tell Manchin we could prosecute, but we'll explicitly, formally allow corruption for people who play ball. Then he does what we want at the relatively cost of letting another corrupt politician die fat and happy. Whether anyone else takes advantage of the precedent of the Manchin deal to do some corruption, well, that's a tomorrow problem. 2. We tell Manchin all that, but actually he never knows that our fingers are crossed, so and we turn around and throw him in jail anyway as soon as he's made the vote that....well, surely it will be a big enough vote to make up for the fact that we'll never be able to strongarm someone again. Neither option directly addresses how far the DOJ can actually push Manchin with threat of prosecution, with the evidence they have, before he just says, "Hah, I can fight this corruption charge right to the Roberts court and tell my conservative constituents how scared the liberals are of me and how they're making backroom deals to take me down." I'm fine going after him if they have a case. I'm just extremely skeptical about it also being a lever to get good things out of him or the Senate in general and I've never seen someone articulate a clear path for how it's more likely to work than backfire tremendously.
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May 30, 2022 02:10
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How does Manchin helping Republicans destroy society through the Supreme Court mean he doesn't also do good things 🥴 I heard Ted Cruz is a good tipper. We should go after Manchin and his kids for revenge knowing it isn't going to change his behavior regardless because it's the right thing to do and might serve as a warning for any other person considering using the democratic party as a means of getting into power to torture rape victims with denial of healthcare access. President Kucinich fucked around with this message at 02:12 on May 30, 2022 |
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May 30, 2022 02:10
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Gumball Gumption posted:It's not fascism to stop people from being free to murder school children no matter the path you take to it. This is just another example of how freedom is the God we're sacrificing our kids to. You'd love it if kids stopped dying but we need to follow unnecessary and byzantine processes that ends in kids still being killed. If we don't follow that process we lose freedom so we just have to accept the dead kids. No, it isn't. You will note I haven't said that. I"m discussing the "why don't we just do what the Republicans do??" arguments which is completely different. You can't beat the Republicans at being obstructive and cruel without becoming indistinguishable from them and a lot of those arguments genuinely want to seem cruelty. There is no problem with being strong-armed or leaning on people because that is indeed part of government. But you're not going to get a Mitch McConnell level control over the Democratic party because they are fundamentally different groups. This isn't how it should be. Government shouldn't be "the crazy party who votes exclusively for horror and terror" and "everyone else from basically conservative shitheads to people who don't want to be murdered in the streets and have literally no other option besides giving up their right to vote entirely." Even if every Democrat was entirely there to execute the will of the people (and they're not) they still represent a more diverse collection of people than the Republicans do in terms of needs and wants because they're at this point the only viable "Holy gently caress not those guys" party instead of having to represent any one thing. But "start blackmailing and threatening and imprisoning your foes" isn't going to unite anyone and it isn't going to give the same power the Republicans have. (And this is ignoring the very real fact that it would *absolutely* be used more on Progressive voices than anything else as we already having loving proof of.)
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May 30, 2022 02:19
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ImpAtom posted:You can't beat the Republicans at being obstructive and cruel without becoming indistinguishable from them and a lot of those arguments genuinely want to seem cruelty. The dnc and Manchin and sinema have seemed to figure that out so I don't know what you're talking about.
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May 30, 2022 02:29
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Fascism is telling the DoJ to investigate someone for crimes they have committed.
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May 30, 2022 02:31
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The Sean posted:The dnc and Manchin and sinema have seemed to figure that out so I don't know what you're talking about. That... I don't think we should be emulating them? Nanomashoes posted:Fascism is telling the DoJ to investigate someone for crimes they have committed. If you tell the DoJ to do that because they are not doing what you want politically? And don't apply the exact same standards to people who do vote your way? Yes, that is in fact a very bad thing to do. Like if you want to say "Congress should actually be held to standards" I'm 100% on loving board, though I have my doubts it would work. But if you're only upholding standards and trying crimes as a political move then that is going to get abused right quick.
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May 30, 2022 02:31
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Nanomashoes posted:Fascism is telling the DoJ to investigate someone for crimes they have committed. It's kinda amazing how liberals are completely defeated by Chief Wiggum's invisible typewriter to the point where they consider it to be just a normal part of the system and procedure.
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May 30, 2022 02:32
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Kalit posted:How does that refute him voting for useful things as well? DV wasn't trying to make the claim that Manchin only voted for/supported useful things John McCain, famous for branding himself a maverick and generally viewed as a moderate Republican, voted with his party 76% of the time as of 2008 (https://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/mccain-voting-with-democrats-more-than-gop/). Manchin by contrast voted against his party 38.5% of the time (https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-voting-rights-government-and-politics-c65d4424c200ede56fc31db42e28e084), making him vote by 61.5% of the time. If the baseline is "vote for anything useful," I could easily bring up Republicans of the past who pushed for useful measures such as Richard Lugar and his crusade against nuclear armament or the aforementioned John McCain keeping the ACA alive with one of his final votes. That does not in and of themselves make those candidates praiseworthy. Having said that, I would say that voting in a conservative Supreme Court justice credibly accused of rape and openly partisan in his hearings, would, in fact, cancel out whatever "use" he has. If you feel differently, then please explain how the Supreme Court is an irrelevant institution to the party and the president's agenda. I would love to hear it.
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May 30, 2022 02:33
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Per my posts in the previous CE thread, the bill including mandatory product listing for dietary supplements, the FDA Safety and Landmark Advancements Act, has been introduced in the Senate. This is a bill that has to pass every 5 years (it reauthorizes basic drug approval systems for FDA), so the inclusion of mandatory product registration requirements for dietary supplements is a critical chance to actually get these products regulated. The bill also includes a massive reform expansion of regulations on cosmetics products. If you'd like the antivaxx movement or groups like the alt-right to lose a major source of funding, please contact your members of congress (House and Senate) and tell them you want the dietary supplement provisions from the senate version of the FDASLA bill in the final version. Members of the health committees are especially important as the bill is now going through revisions. Again, this issue doesn't break down along party lines, and calls in favor of regulation can make all the difference. I can help with talking points if folks need it. This is the critical moment. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 02:44 on May 30, 2022 |
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May 30, 2022 02:38
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ImpAtom posted:That... I don't think we should be emulating them? I’d rather do a whole lot more but since the Dems arent adding more states sure, go ahead and throw joe manchins lovely grandkids in jail. They deserve to be there and I don’t care if it’s democratic or authoritarian or whatever.
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May 30, 2022 02:38
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Probably Magic posted:John McCain, famous for branding himself a maverick and generally viewed as a moderate Republican, voted with his party 76% of the time as of 2008 (https://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/mccain-voting-with-democrats-more-than-gop/). Manchin by contrast voted against his party 38.5% of the time (https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-voting-rights-government-and-politics-c65d4424c200ede56fc31db42e28e084), making him vote by 61.5% of the time. If the baseline is "vote for anything useful," I could easily bring up Republicans of the past who pushed for useful measures such as Richard Lugar and his crusade against nuclear armament or the aforementioned John McCain keeping the ACA alive with one of his final votes. That does not in and of themselves make those candidates praiseworthy. Who's praising Manchin? As a reminder, this was the shitpost that started this slapfight: Zamujasa posted:oh no! what is he going to do, continue to not support a single useful thing?
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May 30, 2022 02:43
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Discendo Vox posted:I can help with talking points if folks need it. As they say, just post. Seriously this is a no brainier to call ones reps about. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 03:19 on May 30, 2022 |
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May 30, 2022 02:44
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Kalit posted:Who's praising Manchin? It's a dumb slapfight to enter into on Manchin's behalf if you're not defending him. What a pointless person to defend. This was the response to him: Discendo Vox posted:You claimed he didn't support anything useful. You were wrong. You were apparently knowingly, deliberately wrong, so that you could poo poo on the thread. Setting aside his other votes, if you think voting to confirm federal judges isn't important, you really, really haven't been paying attention the last few weeks- which, oh right, was also covered in this thread. That's a very spirited defense of someone if they are not, in fact, praiseworthy!
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May 30, 2022 02:48
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Bar Ran Dun posted:As they say, just post. Seriously this is a no brainier to call ones reps about. The below is reused from a post about a related bill with similar provisions, S 4090 (for inside baseball reasons, S 4090 is going nowhere and FDASLA is the one real shot). The simplified version is that this bill would make supplement companies send FDA their product information and label. That information goes into a public database (basically a public supplement registry), and FDA can instantly seize and stop supplements that aren't in that system. (It also means FDA will actually know what products are even on the market, since right now there's zero premarket approval or scrutiny for supplements) The short version is that the bill will let FDA crush fake Covid cures and other scam products much, much faster. If that sounds good, the time to contact your senator's office (especially if they're on the health committee) and tell them you support a mandatory public database for dietary supplements as in the FDASLA. The equivalent House committee is Energy and Commerce. The house passed a version of the bill that doesn't have these supplement provisions, so you need to tell them that you want the final version of the FDASLA to have mandatory product listing for supplements. The politics involved are complicated, but the short version is that it's worth doing no matter what party they are a part of or where you live, and the decisions are being made very soon. This doesn't fall along the usual partisan or even industry lines, and hearing even a single call or email of public support could actually change whether this happens. The best time to call may be Tuesday, after the holiday passes, but I'm genuinely not certain. Talking points: Here's the author of S 4090, talking about the need for supplement listing: https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1ynKOZAVMrzxR You can mine the video for talking points(it's a good watch), but some basic starters:
cunningham posted:My own comments (as one who routinely communicates with congressional staffers): If you would like more specific info, context, or talking points for a particular senate office, PM me. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:46 on May 30, 2022 |
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May 30, 2022 03:29
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Epicurius posted:The fear is that he stops being part of the caucus and hands over the majority to the Republicans. Don't know if it'll happen but that's the fear. He's currently making sure that the Democrats can't do anything significant with their majority. Which will be a contributing factor to Democrats losing their majority in the midterms.
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May 30, 2022 03:51
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Joe Biden should absolutely use every trick in the book, including a politically motivated DOJ to drive his agenda but the entire conversation is pointless because if he was the type of person to do that and if his party was the type of party to encourage that and if the Democratic electorate was the type of electorate to demand that, there would be no Joe Manchin problem to begin with.
DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 04:55 on May 30, 2022 |
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May 30, 2022 04:46
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DarkCrawler posted:Joe Biden should absolutely use every trick in the book, including a politically motivated DOJ to drive his agenda but the entire conversation is pointless because if he was the type of person to do that and if his party was the type of party to encourage that and if the Democratic electorate was the type of electorate to demand that, there would be no Joe Manchin problem to begin with. He doesn't need to use those things to drive his agenda because this is his agenda. He doesn't want sweeping meaningful change. He wants a 'return to normal' and this is normal America.
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May 30, 2022 04:52
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Tuxedo Gin posted:He doesn't need to use those things to drive his agenda because this is his agenda. He doesn't want sweeping meaningful change. He wants a 'return to normal' and this is normal America. That is also true. His stated agenda, then.
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May 30, 2022 04:56
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Correct, the guy who won the primary as the "back to normal" candidate does not want the sweeping meaningful change that his losing competition campaigned on. Very profound.
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May 30, 2022 05:10
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Rigel posted:Manchin and Sinema might call themselves Democrats, hold a random gavel in some subcommittee somewhere, and be invited to meetings, but they are not part of the governing coalition, because they are not willing to allow what would have been the majority to set the agenda. At an absolute bare minimum you have to be willing to let the government set the agenda and have up or down votes. If you won't do that, then maybe you are not in the opposition party actively trying to bring down the government, but you are also not part of the governing coalition either. The US is not a parliamentary democracy and never has been. In particular, the kind of strict party discipline you'd see in a parliamentary system (where lacking a reliable coalition can bring down the whole government and drive things to immediate elections) isn't really a thing in the US. People will often cite the GOP as a counterargument, but their last stint with a trifecta showed they aren't much better at party discipline than the Dems are. Believe it or not, Manchin and Sinema do occasionally vote for Democratic legislation! For instance, they both voted for the American Rescue Plan, the COVID relief bill, which passed 50-49. They both voted to roll back various Trump administration attacks on worker's rights. They both voted for the 2021 budget and debt limit increase, both of which passed 50-49. They've bucked some major pieces of Biden's agenda, but they've passed some stuff that would not have passed if Republicans were in their seats. I'd love if someone better than Manchin and Sinema were in their seats. But until the West Virginia DSA find a credible Senate challenger easily capable of winning both a primary and general in West Virginia, we have to look at whether they're worse than the alternatives. And looking at Manchin's opponents in 2012 and 2018, I'd rather have Manchin than them. Gumball Gumption posted:It's not fascism to stop people from being free to murder school children no matter the path you take to it. This is just another example of how freedom is the God we're sacrificing our kids to. You'd love it if kids stopped dying but we need to follow unnecessary and byzantine processes that ends in kids still being killed. If we don't follow that process we lose freedom so we just have to accept the dead kids. This is a classic argument right out of the fascist books. In fact, it's exactly the same argument the fascists right here in America are making right now. The authoritarians engaging in awful administrative and physical oppression of trans folks in red states are insisting that they're doing it to protect women and children from groomers and rapists. The roving border militias taking it upon themselves to attack Hispanics near the border say they're doing it to stop children from being killed by gangsters and criminals. They argue that that's why they have to roll back civil rights or engage in brutal violence - they can't let namby-pamby ideals or bureaucratic nonsense get in the way of Protecting Our Kids From The Bad Guys. This is why it's silly to say that it's a great idea to destroy civil rights as long as it's for a good cause: almost everyone thinks they've got a good cause. Most of them honestly believe the poo poo they say. The people arguing for gun control say they want to protect kids, and the people arguing against gun control also say they want to protect kids. The people who want to police bathrooms say they're protecting women's rights too, and some of them honestly believe it.
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May 30, 2022 05:33
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ImpAtom posted:If you tell the DoJ to do that because they are not doing what you want politically? And don't apply the exact same standards to people who do vote your way? Yes, that is in fact a very bad thing to do. Do you think that would be functionally worse than any of the ways the country is currently falling apart? Is applying pressure to one politician and not the other worth never getting any gun control, universal health care, protecting the right to abortion, etc? If you think that this principle - that pressuring some people and letting others slide is fascist and never justifiable - is more important than those other issues, I'm not sure you have the same priorities as a lot of people in the thread.
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May 30, 2022 05:39
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Main Paineframe posted:Believe it or not, Manchin and Sinema do occasionally vote for Democratic legislation! For instance, they both voted for the American Rescue Plan, the COVID relief bill, which passed 50-49. They both voted to roll back various Trump administration attacks on worker's rights. They both voted for the 2021 budget and debt limit increase, both of which passed 50-49. They've bucked some major pieces of Biden's agenda, but they've passed some stuff that would not have passed if Republicans were in their seats. I am aware of that, If they are unwilling to allow their party to even have a vote on their agenda, then their support on small pieces of legislation here and there does not mean they are part of the governing coalition. They are outsiders just using the Democratic party brand to get elected who are potentially gettable for votes that can't be filibustered. We do not have a fully functional government, rarely had a fully functional government in the past, and will never have one in the future until a party with a trifecta is at least able to vote on their agenda. Just because we are used to this idiotic dysfunction does not make it normal or not completely loving bizarre.
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May 30, 2022 05:56
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Main Paineframe posted:The US is not a parliamentary democracy and never has been. In particular, the kind of strict party discipline you'd see in a parliamentary system (where lacking a reliable coalition can bring down the whole government and drive things to immediate elections) isn't really a thing in the US. It's incredibly important to recognize how unusual it is in the modern history of the US for the two parties to both be as ideologically unified with each other and separated from one another as they are. Even if you 100% want the Democrats to be way further left and voting as a single unit on everything important, which would be great, we're closer to that than any living person has ever seen. Seriously look at past voting records. It was the norm for impactful and controversial bills to have plenty of defectors on both sides, and Democrats in particular were a mix of progressive northerners and southern confederate apologists for a very long time, with all that entails. Our current situation of everything hard going through with 50 Democratic votes or not at all is historically weird in lots of ways, but a couple of Democrats not getting in line is not one of them. Frustration with the Democrats is understandable, but "how can we still call them a party if they have defectors" like I've heard in the past is disconnected with reality. That's never been what a party is in this country.
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May 30, 2022 06:17
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goethe.cx posted:Correct, the guy who won the primary as the "back to normal" candidate does not want the sweeping meaningful change that his losing competition campaigned on. Very profound. and now, with a normal number of dead children dead to a normal mass shooting, a normal conservative supreme court normally legislating Roe vs Wade away, and a normal set of moderate senators normally stopping him from passing any of his agenda, polls are showing that the return to normalcy has made Biden less popular than Donald Trump during the worst of 2020. what, if any, conclusions do you draw?
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May 30, 2022 06:20
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