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Main Paineframe posted:Oh yeah, there's some pro-choice elected Republicans, even at the national level. They're lying low right now, though, because the GOP base is actually super motivated to oust politicians that aren't seen as conservative enough. Example from the sensible moderate republican loving state of Massachusetts: https://www.masslive.com/politics/2022/05/massachusetts-must-step-up-for-abortion-care-if-roe-is-overturned-gov-charlie-baker-says.html
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Jun 9, 2022 21:10
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BiggerBoat posted:I don't think that political assassinations are good. Most people who say this don't really believe it. They just believe they aren't good here, usually for American exceptionalism/It-Can't-Happen-Here related reasons.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:20
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BiggerBoat posted:Not yet. Violating a person's bodily autonomy is an act of violence. I cannot find it in my heart - cold and cynical as it may be - to drat any person that responds to violence in kind.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:21
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Willa Rogers posted:The Madison Capitol protests, the Occupy protests, even the protests at the SCOTUS homes could all be painted with the same broad brush of "insurrection" and "coup" that has been used for 1/6 If you literally don't understand what those words mean, then yes. In that scenario, Cheerios could also be painted as a coup and a balanced breakfast as an insurrection.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:27
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Bishyaler posted:Most people who say this don't really believe it. They just believe they aren't good here, usually for American exceptionalism/It-Can't-Happen-Here related reasons. Seems to me to be either a 'win more' move or a 'shoot yourself in the foot when you're already behind' move. Kavanaugh's camp isn't behind.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:35
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:If you literally don't understand what those words mean, then yes. So far occupy has been treated more like an insurrectionist coup by the government than either the Brooks Brothers riot or 1/6.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:36
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Bishyaler posted:Most people who say this don't really believe it. They just believe they aren't good here, usually for American exceptionalism/It-Can't-Happen-Here related reasons. You got data to back this assertion up?
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Jun 9, 2022 21:37
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Willa Rogers posted:And, ironically, I think that Dems would be more persuasive by saying so rather than pretending 1/6 was on par with 9/11. I don't quite get how you would..phrase this.. without it coming across as literally saying "we know we're full-of-poo poo liars but please trust us that the other guys are worse". Which, if it somehow worked, would only prove that Dems were never in danger to begin with. Idk, maybe that's your point.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:38
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Gumball Gumption posted:So far occupy has been treated more like an insurrectionist coup by the government than either the Brooks Brothers riot or 1/6. Well then clearly they were, given that people seem to be taking the lead from government response. Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jun 9, 2022 |
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Jun 9, 2022 21:41
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Gumball Gumption posted:So far occupy has been treated more like an insurrectionist coup by the government than either the Brooks Brothers riot or 1/6. how many people have been indicted for sedition in each case? FizFashizzle posted:Methotrexate is never going to be banned. I hope you are correct, but I would not put it past some state legislatures to start threatening suppliers of the drugs they deem to be bad.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:42
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I noticed one of the ways a lot of chuds handwave away Jan 6 was that "They weren't armed". Well I mean didn't most of the rioters come from out of state? And most of them flew to DC? It's not exactly easy to fly with a gun. Im not even sure you can legitimately fly with a handgun. There are ways to do it (I think hunters can fly with a gun) but it's extremely difficult from what I understand.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:45
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If anyone is interested in a very good podcast on this topic, I'd suggest listening to Robert Evans' "It Could Happen Here". It originally started off as a 9 part series on how exactly a second American Civil War could happen based on a combination of facts, historical precedent, and his own experiences as a war reporter covering two real world civil wars. It was started back up again after a couple of years and is now a daily releasing show, and I can't speak to the quality of the newer episodes but however I highly recommend everyone at least listen to the original nine part series. It's pretty much everywhere podcasts are. Episode length is reasonable too, between 30-40 minutes per ep. https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-it-could-happen-here-30717896/
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Jun 9, 2022 21:47
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syntaxrigger posted:Was it Giffords that got shot by some right winger after Sarah Palin vomited a bunch of shooting themed rhetoric? That seems like decades ago now. 11 years ago, so you're not wrong. Certain media outlets were heavily vested in promoting that Loughner was a right-winger spurred on by Palin, then dropped any examination of his motivations once they didn't fit that neat narrative. He had a history of mental illness, bizarre behavior and abused a wide range of drugs. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2011/01/10/132810483/loughner-social-outcast-with-indecipherable-beliefs sums up some of it. -- Mother Jones magazine spoke with a friend of Loughner's, 22-year-old Bryce Tierney, who says the suspect "held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a 'fake'." -- The Associated Press reports that "at an event roughly three years ago, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords took a question from Jared Loughner. ... According to two of his high school friends the question was essentially this: 'What is government if words have no meaning?' Loughner was angry about her response -- she read the question and didn't have much to say." And the AP says that the friends "paint a picture bolstered by other former classmates and Loughner's own Internet postings: that of a social outcast with nihilistic, almost indecipherable beliefs steeped in mistrust and paranoia."
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Jun 9, 2022 21:47
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uggy posted:You got data to back this assertion up? Here's a softball pitch: Was the July 20 Plot good or bad? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2022 21:48
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uggy posted:You got data to back this assertion up?
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Jun 9, 2022 21:52
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A pack of deranged idiots swarming a government building is pretty bad, but it's not a coup because Trump was a stone cold stupid motherfucker and didn't do the leg work to get institutions behind him. The US coup is going to happen in the courts and behind the ballot boxes. Exactly the way it is already being built. Republicans will just refuse to lose elections from here on out and justify it with "They did it first!" then they'll pass more laws and put more judges in place and suppress more votes until they just stop losing because everything is built so they cannot lose.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:54
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Charliegrs posted:I noticed one of the ways a lot of chuds handwave away Jan 6 was that "They weren't armed". Well I mean didn't most of the rioters come from out of state? And most of them flew to DC? It's not exactly easy to fly with a gun. Im not even sure you can legitimately fly with a handgun. There are ways to do it (I think hunters can fly with a gun) but it's extremely difficult from what I understand. they were armed and had caches of weapons right across state lines with people ready to bring them. https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1413196545843990531 Bishyaler posted:Here's a softball pitch: Was the July 20 Plot good or bad? is this like Godwin's assassination rule?
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Jun 9, 2022 21:56
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Has anyone heard anything else about when Biden will attempt to remove Dejoy from the Post Office? The only thing I saw without looking hard was Jill Biden doing the event with Dejoy to honor Nancy Reagan during Pride month.
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Jun 9, 2022 21:57
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papa horny michael posted:Has anyone heard anything else about when Biden will attempt to remove Dejoy from the Post Office? The only thing I saw without looking hard was Jill Biden doing the event with Dejoy to honor Nancy Reagan during Pride month. Right after they get around to the Henry Kissenger commemorative stamps. we now live in a perpetual mass shooting https://twitter.com/scottwongDC/status/1535003244681957376
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Jun 9, 2022 21:58
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 D&D's rules have been updated to be clearer and shorter. What we've been trying to enforce hasn't really changed. If anything about them concerns you, please PM me or post your thoughts in the upcoming feedback thread.
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Jun 9, 2022 22:06
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papa horny michael posted:Has anyone heard anything else about when Biden will attempt to remove Dejoy from the Post Office? The only thing I saw without looking hard was Jill Biden doing the event with Dejoy to honor Nancy Reagan during Pride month. The Senate finally confirmed Biden's postal board of Governors nominees two weeks ago. There are technically a majority of the board appointed by Biden now, although one of them is a Republican because of a partisan balance requirement. If all 5 of Biden's nominees (or his 4 non-Republican nominees and the Democrat nominated by Trump), decided to hold a no confidence vote, then they could do it now by one vote.
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Jun 9, 2022 22:06
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Senate finally confirmed Biden's postal board of Governors nominees two weeks ago. There are technically a majority of the board appointed by Biden now, although one of them is a Republican because of a partisan balance requirement. What's stopping them then?
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Jun 9, 2022 22:08
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Koos Group posted:
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Jun 9, 2022 22:15
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Willa Rogers posted:What's stopping them then? Nothing technically. They haven't had a full meeting since the new members were appointed two weeks ago. But, Trump's Democrat and Biden's Republican haven't said if they would support removing him or not. If either of them supports it and 4 of the Democrats and Independent do as well, then they could do it whenever they convene next. There's nothing legally stopping them as of two weeks ago.
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Jun 9, 2022 22:16
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I thought I had read interviews with a few of the democrat appointees that they supported Dejoy. But that could have been during Trump's presidency.
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Jun 9, 2022 22:20
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papa horny michael posted:I thought I had read interviews with a few of the democrat appointees that they supported Dejoy. But that could have been during Trump's presidency. There was one that was 100% against removing DeJoy (Bloom) and one who didn't like DeJoy's reforms, but he was from the AFL-CIO and softened on removing DeJoy when he ended up giving in to the Postal Worker Union demands for overtime, health care funding reform, minimum staffing requirements, and step-up raises (Moak). Bloom is gone and his seat was one of the ones replaced two weeks ago. Moak is still on there and was the Democrat appointed by Trump. He's been critical of DeJoy, but backed off a little when the unions got what they wanted. And he has never said one way or the other if he would support removing him.
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Jun 9, 2022 22:24
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Wapo seems to be handling internal staffing quite well. After suspending one employee for a sexist tweet, they fired the woman that complained about it. https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1535009230620614656 newsrooms seem like hellish workplaces.
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Jun 9, 2022 22:26
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https://twitter.com/deitaone/status/1534994603652300800?s=21&t=tHu6IH_lAJjdnx0hjv-paw Nothing to see here, just the Treasury Secretary ask Michael “how much could a banana cost? Ten dollars?” This is a huge disconnect between the people on power and the rest of us. So many people are living paycheck to paycheck and can’t afford an emergency, but there have been jobs gains so it’s all fine. The price of food, gas, and housing are going up (and I believe that good and housing aren’t factored into inflation) but there have been job gains so it’s fine. Why is everyone so pessimistic when so many more people have gotten jobs*?! *let’s just ignore how unemployment numbers are massaged to hell and back to appear more favorable than it actually is thereby creating an alternate reality that the democrats place way too much importance on Edit: forgot to add that she says that gas prices aren’t going to go down anytime soon. She’s got one of the answers in front of her but doesn’t make the connection theCalamity fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 9, 2022 |
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Jun 9, 2022 22:41
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Jaxyon posted:You're the one deciding your position on issues based on how democrats behave. Jayxon, I'm straight up skeptical of the severity of Jan 6. Maybe it is a big deal, but the behavior of the Democrats is not consistent with that being so. If the Democrats are behaving as though it is merely fundraising fodder, and that is consistent with my intuition, why shouldn't I come to that conclusion?
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Jun 9, 2022 23:04
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Things that could have convinced me that Jan. 6 was a big deal: -taking immediate action on the day of -purging/punishing the negligent actions of the police involved -directing the DoJ to skullfuck Donald Trump These actions would be extremely out of the ordinary of the usual behavior of the Democrats, and would serve as evidence that Jan 6 was truly an extraordinary event. But the Democrats have done nothing out of the ordinary, in fact they have done nothing to arrest the ascent of the overtly fascist party. So, yeah. The fascists are going to take power--they won't even need a coup to do it--and the Dems ain't gonna do poo poo to stop them. Best not to expend energy on it and instead to look out for myself and those I care about, because the Democratic party sure as poo poo isn't going to!
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Jun 9, 2022 23:16
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A big flaming stink posted:Jayxon, I'm straight up skeptical of the severity of Jan 6. Maybe it is a big deal, but the behavior of the Democrats is not consistent with that being so. If the Democrats are behaving as though it is merely fundraising fodder, and that is consistent with my intuition, why shouldn't I come to that conclusion? Several people have said they don't think it's a big deal because the democrats don't. I have to take them at their word as I must assume good faith. I think using Dem inaction to determine whether something matters or not is a bad idea. But that's just me!
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Jun 9, 2022 23:21
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A big flaming stink posted:Things that could have convinced me that Jan. 6 was a big deal: Funny enough not doing those things is what will make 1/6 a big deal in history. I guess that's the split here, 1/6 is a big deal. The response to 1/6 from the government? Ehhhhh.
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Jun 9, 2022 23:28
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A big flaming stink posted:Jayxon, I'm straight up skeptical of the severity of Jan 6. Maybe it is a big deal, but the behavior of the Democrats is not consistent with that being so. If the Democrats are behaving as though it is merely fundraising fodder, and that is consistent with my intuition, why shouldn't I come to that conclusion? They impeached a president over it, started the largest criminal investigation in FBI history, and are holding Congressional hearings on it. That's pretty much every lever of taking it seriously the Democrats have the ability to pull. This idea that they're "not taking it seriously" is based on them not doing the things you think should be done. That's not evidence of them not taking it seriously, that's evidence of them not agreeing with you about what should be done about it. They are very much doing the things you do if you take things seriously according to what they believe should be done. Your argument only follows if you think the Democratic establishment has the same ideological and political beliefs as you. Not doing things your way doesn't mean someone doesn't care, it might just mean they think your way is dumb. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Jun 9, 2022 |
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Jun 9, 2022 23:30
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A big flaming stink posted:Jayxon, I'm straight up skeptical of the severity of Jan 6. Maybe it is a big deal, but the behavior of the Democrats is not consistent with that being so. If the Democrats are behaving as though it is merely fundraising fodder, and that is consistent with my intuition, why shouldn't I come to that conclusion? None of the things that I personally think are a big deal--climate change, police violence, trans rights, access to health care, access to legal abortion, response to COVID, and so on--do not, as near as I can tell, pass the litmus test you're proposing.
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Jun 9, 2022 23:38
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The GOP takeover will be perfectly legal (or at least constitutional crisis semi-legal, think Florida 2020). They won't need to shoot Senators or anything.
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Jun 9, 2022 23:40
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SubG posted:Out of curiosity, what currently does count as a "big deal" by this standard? Clearly none of those things should be considered a big deal. I agree that seems like a bad way to evaluate things, but that's what people are saying they use to evaluate. Weirdly, from people who generally seem to criticize Democrats.
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Jun 9, 2022 23:48
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Oh good. We really needed a few more of them there to help the rest of them stand around and do nothing. Lib and let die posted:Violating a person's bodily autonomy is an act of violence. I cannot find it in my heart - cold and cynical as it may be - to drat any person that responds to violence in kind. Ok. You do you and I get where you're coming from but I'm trying to imagine a world where that guy was succesful and if you think a cop driven right wing political world is bad now, the blowback from something like that would be immense and 3/4 of the democrats would fall right in line. It would be bad if people start murdering political opponents and I don't think that's a controversial opinion to hold. I'd prefer that people were not murdered. I am for less murdering accross the board. Perhaps I am naive.
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Jun 9, 2022 23:52
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Jarmak posted:They impeached a president over it, started the largest criminal investigation in FBI history, and are holding Congressional hearings on it. That's pretty much every lever of taking it seriously the Democrats have the ability to pull. you know what it looks like when an insurrection is being taken seriously by American politicians. in a prominent case we both remember, it involved American soldiers being sent into a city to kill every man between twelve and eighty, with a justification in its entirety of 'try and stop us, bitch.' Fallujah was something democrats thought was an insurrection, and something they gleefully endorsed drowning in blood and gunfire rather than risk it growing further. 1/6, by comparison, received the same reaction as 'president did sex crimes.' sure, its the kind of thing that leadership would prefer not happen, because brushing it under the table is a slower and uglier process than they'd like, but call it a deal-breaker and you will be laughed out of the room at best. a party that wanted to wield power could have used 1/6 as a justification to consolidate it and force its agenda through. it has been two years of a democratic trifecta. you know the modern democratic party has neither the will, nor an agenda to push through if they did. if they don't want to lift a finger to protect themselves, why should anyone else.
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Jun 10, 2022 00:09
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quote:University of Chicago Study: Americans support liberal economic policies in response to deepening economic inequality except when the likely beneficiaries are disproportionately Black. https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdf/10.1086/718289
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Jun 10, 2022 00:10
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Jarmak posted:They impeached a president over it, started the largest criminal investigation in FBI history, and are holding Congressional hearings on it. That's pretty much every lever of taking it seriously the Democrats have the ability to pull. You could argue about why it's dumb instead of deconstructing the existence of what a disagreement is. Yes, two people have different perspectives that make them disagree. Personally I think historical precedent shows that the response so far hasn't been enough. Legal and illegal paths to power are being left open for the perpetrators and history says that fascists will try again and become more successful if you do that. They only need to be lucky once.
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Jun 10, 2022 00:27
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