(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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Americans are completely incapable of imagining a world outside of their 2 political parties. 😔
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Sep 11, 2022 16:34
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fart simpson posted:what else could you mean by “at all costs” ? And then you have this guy thinking that when I say republicans must be stopped at all costs, I mean an emphasis on electioneering and voting. Just a completely unreasonable reading of the words I typed that only drags us away from the original point into a conversation about how I'm a lib who loves voting.
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Sep 11, 2022 16:36
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drat dude you brought up an organization and people responded with their opinion on that organization? hosed up. lets get the admins in here to hand out some permas
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Sep 11, 2022 16:36
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croup coughfield posted:lets get the admins in here to hand out some permas That's a pretty stupid idea
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Sep 11, 2022 16:38
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croup coughfield posted:drat dude you brought up an organization and people responded with their opinion on that organization? hosed up. lets get the admins in here to hand out some permas actually I think you'll find that that case has been reviewed and found to be that the perma was too quick on the draw
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Sep 11, 2022 16:39
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if anyone's interested in seeing what cpusa is actually up to, with an intent to discuss their analyses and strategies, join the conference. starts at the top of the hour. i'll be listening off and on throughout.gradenko_2000 posted:actually I think you'll find that that case has been reviewed and found to be that the perma was too quick on the draw oh did they unkill sbn? i havent been following very closely
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Sep 11, 2022 16:44
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unwantedplatypus posted:And then you have this guy thinking that when I say republicans must be stopped at all costs, I mean an emphasis on electioneering and voting. what does stopping the republicans “at all costs” mean in 2022 america other than spending a lot of effort helping democrats. i never said anything about voting. your post was in response to voting for democrats fart simpson has issued a correction as of 17:04 on Sep 11, 2022 |
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Sep 11, 2022 17:02
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first speaker already slipping in a civ 2 reference
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Sep 11, 2022 17:11
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Talking about the through line between historical racism and imperialism, answering questions about landback and blm
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Sep 11, 2022 17:21
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Talking about PCP's efforts in Portugal. Apparently they fundraise and run schools and have whole families involved in PCP events/festivals.
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Sep 11, 2022 17:48
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"This is the anniversary of a terrorist crime, I am of course talking about September 11th, 1973"
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Sep 11, 2022 18:02
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unwantedplatypus posted:"This is the anniversary of a terrorist crime, I am of course talking about September 11th, 1973" i lol'd
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Sep 11, 2022 18:03
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Head of the international department of Chile sends a message recorded before the referendum, big oof.
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Sep 11, 2022 18:28
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unwantedplatypus posted:Fat-Lip-Sum wasn't even quoting something having to do with the conference. He was quoting promotional material from the organization's website. I asked people if they had seen the clip in question, and posted it so we could talk about the part of the conference relevant to what Fat-Lip-Sum was talking about. He then, again, quoted a pamphlet from the website. The response. All I did was point out that the top of their front page is a plea to vote for democrats. That's all I did, man. The rest is all you.
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Sep 11, 2022 18:36
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Video from a party member about poverty alleviation in china!
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Sep 11, 2022 18:42
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laughing at "socialism with american characteristics"
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Sep 11, 2022 18:44
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croup coughfield posted:laughing at "socialism with american characteristics"
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Sep 11, 2022 18:45
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Hearing from CPUSA members in Beijing, Hanoi, and Shanghai
unwantedplatypus has issued a correction as of 19:09 on Sep 11, 2022 |
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Sep 11, 2022 19:06
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Morena apparently doing some good stuff in Mexico.
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Sep 11, 2022 19:50
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overall, not bad. interested to see where things go from here
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Sep 11, 2022 20:13
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i think the republicans and democrats should be understood less as political parties in the classic sense and more as, like, brands. you can't really join or influence them like you could, say, british labor (and hence the right wouldn't need to use any of the tactics they used to defang british labor, because there aren't actually internal decision-making structures to subvert)
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Sep 11, 2022 20:34
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Ferrinus posted:i think the republicans and democrats should be understood less as political parties in the classic sense and more as, like, brands. you can't really join or influence them like you could, say, british labor (and hence the right wouldn't need to use any of the tactics they used to defang british labor, because there aren't actually internal decision-making structures to subvert) This is a much more workable and realistic understanding of American politics.
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Sep 11, 2022 21:13
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https://twitter.com/PhilosophyCuck/status/1568987511203962884?cxt=HHwWiICx5YP1lMYrAAAA Lol, social democracy ftw.
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Sep 12, 2022 00:10
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https://twitter.com/Huck1995/status/1568856047380463618?t=aHWoKB3zlGpQuKudIS3DMQ&s=19
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Sep 12, 2022 00:24
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https://twitter.com/sopjap/status/1568559195208749056
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Sep 12, 2022 02:54
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Ferrinus posted:i think the republicans and democrats should be understood less as political parties in the classic sense and more as, like, brands. you can't really join or influence them like you could, say, british labor (and hence the right wouldn't need to use any of the tactics they used to defang british labor, because there aren't actually internal decision-making structures to subvert)
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Sep 12, 2022 09:09
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unwantedplatypus posted:Talking about PCP's efforts in Portugal. Apparently they fundraise and run schools and have whole families involved in PCP events/festivals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY09xDr_0LI&t=214s
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Sep 12, 2022 09:23
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AnimeIsTrash posted:Americans are completely incapable of imagining a world outside of their 2 political parties. 😔 Michael Hudson posted:I know many progressives within the Democratic party and they say that there’s nothing that they can do as long as the Democratic party exists. Ironically, the way that they could get democracy in the United States would be for the Democratic party to be completely dissolved, the progressives would all join the Republicans, you’ll have just one party, and at least if you had one party then you could have primary fights over what different ideas there were. Within a single party you could have branches. But with two parties blocking out any alternative, you can’t have, at least what Europe has, and that is a parliamentary system that new parties can emerge with new ideas. There’s no vehicle for a new party to exist with new ideas as long as there’s a two party system in the United States where the Democratic Party’s role is to prevent any left wing critique of the Republican Party. I could see it actually being necessary if winning elections is a viable tactic for growing class consciousness. With gerrymandering and low info voters, it may actually be better to run as Republican in certain areas. It's how Aria DiMezzo won the GOP primary to be sheriff in NH despite openly calling herself a trans Satanist anarchist. Broke: Socialists running under the Democrat parry brand Woke: Socialists taking back the Republican party
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Sep 12, 2022 10:14
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man, chapter 2 of "The Condition of the Working Class in England" is really rough. I'm having a tough time getting through all the descriptions of poverty. loving capitalism.
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Sep 12, 2022 10:34
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HiroProtagonist posted:I don't really care about the CPUSA mostly but going to bat to defend them from people who's immediate reaction to them is scorn when we're talking about a supposed "communist party" who literally and enthusiastically endorsed loving HRC seems like a dumb waste of a lot of posts  the author of the article published on the CPUSA website about that was ricardo alcaron, who was one of the original cuban revolutionaries and later the country's foreign minister and ambassador to the united nations, and i think the reasoning behind that was to continue the relative period of normalization that began under obama. unfortunately, that ship sailed when trump won and biden has largely kept the renewed sanctions regime intact. my sense is that the main website has taken over for the role that "political affairs" used to have, and it's interesting reading through archives of that, as it's where they used to publish articles by members of foreign communist parties. croup coughfield posted:based on conversations ive had with friends in cpusa, it always seemed like a misreading of lenin to me. in state and revolution i dont think lenin's talking about supporting liberals like the democrats. hes talking about running candidates and engaging in electoral policies for a socialist party specifically imo croup coughfield posted:on top of that, as conditions deteriorate, i suspect more people are feeling more desperate to act, and will just go with whatever seems like a short-term win. "we need wins to build momentum," they will say etc. so they'll scope projects that feel less prone to failure and thats usually canvassing and donations or charity disguised as mutual aid and so on. i dunno. i don't really have a strategy, but i don't think the "hard line" should be drawn around the democratic party itself since you're probably going to end up operating within spaces that are within the democratic party coalition anyways unless you just want to be irrelevant, but that has to be a fighting strategy that confronts the forces that currently dominate it (monopoly capital) without inadvertently empowering the far right. and the best historical example we can look to is also the birth of the republican party itself when the whig party collapsed, torn between its conservative "cotton" wing and its progressive "conscience" wing which then merged with smaller alternative parties like the free soil party and radical abolitionists who themselves were divided between various strategies. some abolitionists wanted nothing to do with sham "democracy" and were like "argh we need a third party right now" while others believed they could make change through moral persuasion via religious preachings and literature. but without both sides of that dynamic (or a dialectic), the birth of the republican party and the defeat of the slave power in the civil war wouldn't have happened. oh, another thing, reading about reconstruction, one thing that stands out is how much explicit anticommunism played a role in straight up killing it. northern industrialists were freaked out that the great railroad strike of 1877 would lead to an american version of the paris commune, which led to them abandoning the republican party's radical wing for a new alliance with the remnants of the southern oligarchy they had just crushed. every single reactionary push against democratic rights since then has been fused with militant anticommunism. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 16:11 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 10:40
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HiroProtagonist posted:I don't really care about the CPUSA [writes a about a greivance with the CPUSA]
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Sep 12, 2022 13:07
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:i think it's better to think of influencing people who are folded into, say, the democratic camp than the "party" as such. that's also where you'll find the legacy civil rights organizations and organized labor which would have to be included in any kind of coalition for socialism and anti-imperialism. the labor unions for the most part don't seem interested in that of course, but on the upside, the young people involving in unionizing campaigns today don't seem to have those prejudices, which is something gerald horne pointed out. yeah, the actual function of the democratic """party""" is double-edged in that on one hand it shouldn't really prevent you from running under their ballot line or trying to organize with people in their broad camp when necessary but on the other hand you should never, ever get the idea that the democrats are an institution you can legibly "take over" or "push left" or what have you i'm vaguely sympathetic to the cpusa position that a democrat is de facto preferable to a republican in any position of power, but am basically never going to get out of bed to canvass or even vote to that effect unless i have some additional draw like in this case it's a socialist running for state assembly who's pledged to never go to israel or w/e. at the highest levels of government the difference seems totally academic, ALTHOUGH, i'm not sure trump would have done the one good thing biden did (withdraw from afghanistan) so i'd at least hear out someone with a counterargument
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Sep 12, 2022 19:04
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Ferrinus posted:i'm vaguely sympathetic to the cpusa position that a democrat is de facto preferable to a republican in any position of power, but am basically never going to get out of bed to canvass or even vote to that effect unless i have some additional draw like in this case it's a socialist running for state assembly who's pledged to never go to israel or w/e. at the highest levels of government the difference seems totally academic, ALTHOUGH, i'm not sure trump would have done the one good thing biden did (withdraw from afghanistan) so i'd at least hear out someone with a counterargument i think the main argument is that people i've met in the labor movement including some hardass union guys from minnesota will also say you're absolutely right and will still prefer democrats because of NLRB appointments and because the democrats won't try to actively gently caress with them like the republicans gently caress with them, and who are saying that their first order of business if they retake congress is to "investigate" the department of labor for not kowtowing to big business enough. i don't know of any argument against that position. it's not about "purity" for those guys. the labor organizing going on now is a good thing (one of the few interesting / creative things happening on the left right now imho) and that probably wouldn't be possible if trump was still president. but that also comes with an understanding that the left going into hibernation after obama was elected was a huge mistake and a lot of anger at wall street bailouts got coopted by astroturfed right-wing billionaire movements like the tea party.
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Sep 12, 2022 19:19
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:the author of the article published on the CPUSA website about that was ricardo alcaron, who was one of the original cuban revolutionaries and later the country's foreign minister and ambassador to the united nations, and i think the reasoning behind that was to continue the relative period of normalization that began under obama. unfortunately, that ship sailed when trump won and biden has largely kept the renewed sanctions regime intact. my sense is that the main website has taken over for the role that "political affairs" used to have, and it's interesting reading through archives of that, as it's where they used to publish articles by members of foreign communist parties. No it was the party chairman at the time, John Bachtell (still might be, idk). Ex. 1:https://www.cpusa.org/article/taking-a-sober-look-at-the-2016-election/ Ex 2: https://peoplesworld.org/article/green-party-safe-state-strategy-is-neither-safe-nor-a-strategy/ quote:Many leaders of labor, civil rights and other democratic grassroots movements, including democratic socialists, are leaders within the Democratic Party. it's just apologia and typical lib "lesser evil" opportunism and tailism of the democratic party disguised as marxist rhetoric. this is easy to see if you know the CPUSA also supported every single democratic candidate going back to john kerry because "its better than the other guy" (i haven't bothered to look back further but i hardly doubt that was the beginning of this trend). its not radical politics, and not even close at that. there's not really anything wrong with this stance inherently, it's just indistinguishable from left-liberal politics and therefore toothless. and it definitely contravenes disciplined marxist theories of party building and electoral politics, aside from running their own candidates--which seems dumb if the whole point of this position statement is not to take votes away from the democratic party. HiroProtagonist has issued a correction as of 20:21 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 20:11
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participating in bourgeois politics is one thing, but actively mobilising and organising for a bourgeois political party is quite another. there's no point in organising on behalf of the democratic party.
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Sep 12, 2022 20:15
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bachtell hasnt been chair in a minute
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Sep 12, 2022 20:22
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HiroProtagonist posted:it's just apologia and typical lib "lesser evil" opportunism and tailism of the democratic party disguised as marxist rhetoric. this is easy to see if you know the CPUSA also supported every single democratic candidate going back to john kerry because "its better than the other guy" (i haven't bothered to look back further but i hardly doubt that was the beginning of this trend). its not radical politics, and not even close at that BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 20:38 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 20:35
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Currently, the party has two co-chairs; Rosanna Cambron and Joe Sims. Joe Sims has a few articles on election strategy https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/total-peoples-mobilization-needed-to-save-democracy-and-win-in-november-2022/ https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/the-unity-imperative-lessons-for-building-the-anti-fascist-alliance/ Notably he doesn't say directly to vote for democrats. Though its definitely stated that the Republicans present a unique and pressing threat that the Democrats do not. His writing does imply he has undue personal sympathies for Democrats. unwantedplatypus has issued a correction as of 22:17 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 22:12
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unwantedplatypus posted:His writing does imply he has undue personal sympathies for Democrats. obviously i dont know whats in the mans heart or care but imo its important to remember that he and rossana are presiding over a whole organization with varied interests. the story i heard was that cpusa members still being able to run as dems and get org support was the compromise to get support for opening up cpusa-line candidates
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Sep 12, 2022 22:20
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 02:56 |
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unwantedplatypus posted:Notably he doesn't say directly to vote for democrats. Though its definitely stated that the Republicans present a unique and pressing threat that the Democrats do not. His writing does imply he has undue personal sympathies for Democrats.
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Sep 12, 2022 22:58
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