|
Wrote a Dear John letter to the company I was turning down and they came back with “what can we do to change your mind?” Is this free license to shoot the moon or do I just politely see them off? I guess I’d change my mind for another 25% but I don’t see that as likely. Might be worth keeping things civil in case the job I chose takes a downwards turn.
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2022 22:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 20:29 |
|
|
Hm. Its a data point on how 'off the mark' companies are, not in salary, but in being behind the times. As feel good as it is to turn down offers, you might as well guage their drift from Tell them you need competitive, market driven wages not just for 2022, but 2023 and 2024 as well and see what they say. That's really what it comes down to, right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2022 22:20
|
|
|
You tell them exactly what would make you say yes. If that's 25% more then put that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2022 22:30
|
|
|
Re: last page's slapfight: Manipulating people is awesome, if you're good at it. Just never let yourself get caught in an obvious lie. The whole pretending you live in Seattle to get a higher salary thing is really unnecessarily convoluted, it's a lot easier and simpler to just tell them how much money it will require to engage your services.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2022 23:39
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:Re: last page's slapfight: The Seattle then move gambit is vulnerable to COLA garbage from HR when you change location. Just getting the money where you're at is not subject to that risk.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2022 23:49
|
|
|
Lying to companies is fine. Lying to the government on tax forms is a real "watch yourself" place. That's my point. I have no qualms with the gambit if you can get the first paycheck at the right address.Not a Children posted:Wrote a Dear John letter to the company I was turning down and they came back with “what can we do to change your mind?” Shoot the moon, I'd assume their email means "we realize we might not understand the market, so tell us".
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2022 00:40
|
|
|
deported to Canada posted:Nah go ahead and do it. Report back and tell us it was never a bad idea. That same poster has spent months in another forum talking about how they got their partner to be overemployed by not quitting their wfh job when taking a new in person job. It's either an elaborate troll or it'll explode hilariously in classic goon disaster mode.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2022 01:20
|
|
|
leper khan posted:The Seattle then move gambit is vulnerable to COLA garbage from HR when you change location. The company I work for has base salaries and then location pay for certain hcol areas sorta like the fed gov does. If you move you lose the location pay. We pay 12% extra In Seattle, if you move, you lose the 12%.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2022 05:05
|
|
|
skipdogg posted:The company I work for has base salaries and then location pay for certain hcol areas sorta like the fed gov does. If you move you lose the location pay. I remember one of my coworkers who moved to a different New England state talking about that sometimes people get a paycut when they move. I told him straight up, "If they do that, you should just leave." This is a software developer, so he'd have no issue finding somewhere else. He did leave shortly thereafter but I never heard if it was because they wanted to cut his pay or if it was just time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2022 11:25
|
|
|
I had a coworker once negotiate a raise when she was moving to a lower COL area, and then relo assistance and a raise to move back two years later.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2022 11:34
|
|
|
Zauper posted:I had a coworker once negotiate a raise when she was moving to a lower COL area, and then relo assistance and a raise to move back two years later.
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2022 11:51
|
|
|
A paycut, AKA "silent firing". See also "no bonus this year for REASONS".
|
|
#
?
Sep 17, 2022 16:53
|
|
|
jemand posted:That same poster has spent months in another forum talking about how they got their partner to be overemployed by not quitting their wfh job when taking a new in person job. Hello I would like a link to this if possible, for entertainment
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2022 04:44
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:The Negotiation Thread: Manipulating people is awesome, if you're good at it
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2022 11:12
|
|
|
interrodactyl posted:Hello I would like a link to this if possible, for entertainment Here you go: Euronymous posted:At my insistence, my wife has continued "working" at her soulless corporate WFH job while she accepted an offer at, and is now working for, a conservation organization. She'd initially planned on doing the whole two weeks thing, but decided to try, just... not quitting the other job. Euronymous posted:Goal is $500k/yr, four jobs, two people, no kids, no commute, I never get dressed besides a T-shirt (no pants), 2.5% mortgage. LFG Euronymous posted:So, my wife is still overemployed! We're more than two months in now and she just got a glowing performance review from the old WFH job, and continued good feedback at the new in-person job. She's able to knock out the WFH job in 1-2 hours each night. At this point I've just got some popcorn and am enjoying the show.
|
|
#
?
Sep 18, 2022 22:36
|
|
|
Anyone have any opinions on the usefulness and best way of making statements on a resume related to the value of work done? For example: Direct: quote:... generated $4.3 million in revenue ... More vague: quote:... generated millions in revenue ... Generalized: quote:... generated high revenue ... I think it's useful to put this info on a resume, I'm just curious if there is a preferred way to state it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 02:20
|
|
|
jemand posted:Here you go: Well this is more money than im making so I guess I should give er a shot
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 02:34
|
|
|
I’d cite specific numbers if they’re impressive (and they should be because you should be counting every single project you’ve gotten a fingerprint on)
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 02:56
|
|
|
stump collector posted:Well this is more money than im making so I guess I should give er a shot I think his poor wife already has enough going on
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 04:22
|
|
|
REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:I think his poor wife already has enough going on goddamnit thats not what i meant  
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 07:43
|
|
|
downout posted:Anyone have any opinions on the usefulness and best way of making statements on a resume related to the value of work done? For example: There's a resume thread that can expand, but yes. If the numbers are that impressive be specific. If they aren't without a lot of context, you can be slightly more vague but at a point too many weasel words tells me as an interviewer that the item is not true. If you tell me your accounts were worth 15.3M then I believe you. If you say "A significant part of the entire revenue" then I think you were too far away from the accounts to know how much they were worth.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 14:47
|
|
|
Oh poo poo guys. My manager just called me into a Zoom call with no notice. He started melting down about my probation period, then went silent and started slow clapping me until he promised to destroy my career for being untrustworthy and disingenuous. I started to reply and he just made the “zip it” sign and said “smart rear end coward” repeatedly. It’s not looking good, address bros
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 15:33
|
|
|
There's that craven, introvert, unethical post content I crave.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 15:39
|
|
|
Euronymous posted:Oh poo poo guys. My manager just called me into a Zoom call with no notice. He started melting down about my probation period, then went silent and started slow clapping me until he promised to destroy my career for being untrustworthy and disingenuous. I started to reply and he just made the “zip it” sign and said “smart rear end coward” repeatedly. It’s not looking good, address bros Is this the job where you were lying about what state you lived in?
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 15:44
|
|
|
I wish I worked with people capable of noticing that kind of grift.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 15:45
|
|
|
gbut posted:I wish I worked with people capable of noticing that kind of grift. Luckily for you everyone is rapidly being consumed in our late capitalist hellscape!
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 15:57
|
|
|
Lockback posted:There's a resume thread that can expand, but yes. If the numbers are that impressive be specific. If they aren't without a lot of context, you can be slightly more vague but at a point too many weasel words tells me as an interviewer that the item is not true. Thanks for the feedback, and Not a children too. I did realized about an hour after posting that they resume thread would be better. In this case I am some what removed from the specific details, but I'm working to change that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 17:37
|
|
|
I mean, if you can get away with it what's the problem with having 2 jobs? Sounds like everyone is happy in that story.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 18:05
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:Is this the job where you were lying about what state you lived in? I hope so but he's presumably talking about the job he just gave his 2 week notice to? Dunno, I'm pretty convinced the whole account is a gimmick anyway.
|
|
#
?
Sep 19, 2022 20:53
|
|
|
I think he was just shitposting/melting down.
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2022 00:02
|
|
|
Lockback posted:I think he was just shitposting/melting down. Yeah that was obviously making fun of the thread
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2022 01:22
|
|
|
What's with the stupid newbie yeah and recent reg date? I thought Euronymous was an account on here even older than mine, a posting legend from the early 2000s. Fake edit: SAclopedia entry
|
|
#
?
Sep 20, 2022 02:21
|
|
|
I need to call my accounting firm and negotiate a seriously whatthefuck bill tomorrow that complete blows estimates and previous years billing out of the water. I'm talking $15k this year whereas I had expected maybe 7-8k this year vs 1750 every year for the past 5. Included in the bill is something I wasn't even given a proper estimate, and something where I was scammed into buying what in hindsight was obvious bullshit that provided zero value to me. Even at a generous 150 dollar hourly rate, that's 100 hours which is total bullshit. My talking points are going to be roughly in this order. 0) Good morning. I'm here to discuss invoices x and y and have some concerns about them. 1) I am facing sticker shock. This is far beyond my expectations and far beyond previous years. 2) I've been a regular customer since 2016 3a) I want to continue to be a customer 3b) because I have more work I'd like to arrange to be done immediately following this discussion 4) This is beyond the quoted estimates I have in my hand. 5) What can we do to resolve this issue together 6) Lay out the argument of 150 dollar an hour for 100 hours - I respectfully disagree that this was 100 hours of professional work 7) No no no. I want to continue to be a customer. What can we do to resolve this issue? I'm going to have all of the documents in front of me when I make this call. Are there any other talking points I should have prepared ahead of time? I've never had to negotiate a bill like this before. Methanar fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Sep 23, 2022 |
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2022 09:35
|
|
|
Do you have the hourly billings from previous years to refer to? They can't be as weaselly about your Point 6 it if they're charging you for 100 hours vs last year's 25. One thing I would save for last, or at least de-emphasize, is the "I want to keep being a customer" bit. If you pepper this throughout your discussion you're already negotiating against yourself and indicating you're not serious about dropping their services. Maybe this is appropriate given the context of your working relationship, but from the outside it looks like you're not seriously considering leaving. You want to put the fear of losing a customer in them, then give them the out at the end (reducing your bill in line with expectations).
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2022 11:53
|
|
|
It's dumb to fight with professional services firms about how much time or effort things should take. It sounds like you asked for something new and different and were expecting to pay ~4x your previous annual total, so I don't see how prior year billings would be a reasonable point of comparison. They'll just tell you (correctly) that you asked for different stuff. You want to emphasize the fact that this came in much higher than estimates, and you did not have any visibility or forewarning about the cost coming in well over estimates. If you agreed to work and authorized it, even if you feel like you were "scammed in to buying it" it's very unlikely that they will let you just not pay for work you agreed to and authorized. edit: agree with Not A Children wrt customer status. If anything you want to emphasize that you HAVE BEEN a customer over the last five years and up til now have been very pleased with the services provided &c. Remind them what they lose.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2022 13:39
|
|
|
Everyone who has ever spent one day interacting directly with customers rolls their eyes heavenward instantly upon hearing "I've been a customer here for X years..."
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2022 14:26
|
|
|
Methanar posted:I need to call my accounting firm and negotiate a seriously whatthefuck bill tomorrow that complete blows estimates and previous years billing out of the water. Full disclosure: I'm (sorta, mostly) an accountant, although never been in public practice. My first question is if they provided you an estimate for this engagement/this year, after the new requests were added to the order. If so, do you mind sharing what that was? That may help determine the flow of the conversation. I know you said you had an estimate, but I'm curious if that was your estimation, theirs, and if it was theirs whether it was verbal or written. I figure those things might be helpful to know as the thread workshops a conversation strategy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2022 15:18
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:Everyone who has ever spent one day interacting directly with customers rolls their eyes heavenward instantly upon hearing "I've been a customer here for X years..." If you have a 5 figure account on what looks like a more boutique service, "I've been a customer for x years" carries a lot more weight.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2022 15:22
|
|
|
Maybe but I've certainly heard that line myself from 5+ figure customers and never felt anything but annoyance, because of the invariably applied "...and therefore I'm special and the stipulations I signed off on shouldn't actually apply to me." Methanar, correct me if I'm misreading but I assume you mean to use the "I want to continue to be a customer" as a thinly veiled threat, i.e. "cut this bill at least in half or I'm gone." But you're really just undermining yourself doing it that way. The threat to walk to another company is already implied by the fact you're having this conversation at all. Just remember that this is more about persuasion than negotiation at this point, even if you absolutely 100% would win any legal action (almost certainly not true, but even if) it would still likely cost you more than just paying the bill will. Very interested to hear how that conversation turns out.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2022 15:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 20:29 |
|
|
Methanar posted:I need to call my accounting firm and negotiate a seriously whatthefuck bill tomorrow that complete blows estimates and previous years billing out of the water. I'm certainly not you, and don't know the firm you were working with, but depending on who was doing the work the hourly rate could be much much higher than that. Like, it could be $500/hr or $1k/hr. However, this is why I would generally expect professional services firms to be very upfront about estimates, overages, etc.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2022 23:53
|
|