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BurningBeard posted:Which games do y’all think have the best exploration and/or dungeons? Tales of Berseria ftw!
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Oct 18, 2022 19:23
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Best exploration is Skies of Arcadia, though the dungeons are nothing special?
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Oct 18, 2022 19:29
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OddObserver posted:Best exploration is Skies of Arcadia, though the dungeons are nothing special? The dungeons are kind of infuriating because from that area of random battle jrgps they had a particularly bad encounter rate. The gamecube version is almost perfect plus has the extra super hard battles where the only effective strategy I found was to slowly charge spirit with Vyse, have Aika cast Delta Shield (100% magic shield) and Enrique cast Justice Shield (100% physical shield) and repeatedly nuke them all with Vyse's special after 4-5 turns of charging.
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Oct 18, 2022 19:33
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it is perfect
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Oct 18, 2022 19:35
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Mr. Locke posted:Fun dungeons are a staggering rarity in the genre. Part of why P5 stands out is that the good ones really don't feel like RPG dungeons, but like really simplified stealth action game. Even compared to RPGs that I feel like have good dungeon design like the Mario and Luigi games or Valkyrie Profile are further removed from P5 then say Sly 2 or something. honestly have no idea why they skipped over them but i guess sony has not been known for consistency in what old playstation games they've brought over. why did they remaster, jak, and not the two other major american mascot ps2 franchises that have in a lot of ways aged better. sly's best consolation is that its hd ps3 rerelease is nowhere near as horribly buggy and ill-conceived as ratchet and jak's, it gets to have the dignity of functional graphical rendering and a proper widescreen field of view rather than a squished down one that cuts out visual information, but that's not much consolation when it's already fell out of easy modern availability for people who aren't buying gaming hardware from 2005 Venuz Patrol posted:Tales of Berseria ftw! i like berseria but 3d tales dungeons are maybe not what someone looking for engaging exploration wants. abyss and graces f have okay puzzle-focused ones but that's about the 3d side of the series' high bar for quality The Colonel fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Oct 18, 2022 |
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Oct 18, 2022 19:41
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Yeah that is like literally the first comment I have even seen give Berseria dungeons/exploration a positive review. The dungeons in modern Tales game hit the RPG minimum quality of “It exists and doesn’t wish to make me backtrack through 80 rooms”
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Oct 18, 2022 20:03
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Mysticblade posted:I just finished off The Final Loop and now I have more thoughts on all that. Lemme know if the new story is any good I haven't played since they nerfed my favorite deck
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Oct 18, 2022 20:27
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Clarste posted:I suppose, but I also think that complete non-randomness open up a lot of design space for cutting things very close, like the player intentionally taking a hit that will leave them at 2 HP because they know that's going to happen. Like, it lets you plan ahead and I think that's fun? As opposed to repeatedly doing the exact same thing which has the best odds of success, even if it sometimes fails. After playing Crystal Project (and some other stuff) I'm of the mind that deterministic combat and displaying turn order are essential to a good jrpg battle system these days. As you said it just opens the tactical space a bunch
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Oct 18, 2022 20:40
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babypolis posted:After playing Crystal Project (and some other stuff) I'm of the mind that deterministic combat and displaying turn order are essential to a good jrpg battle system these days. As you said it just opens the tactical space a bunch I love this too. STS was my first experience of a game being so transparent. Getting hosed sideways feels way less poo poo when the mechanisms are made clear. More room to learn, too. What other stuff does transparent mechanics exceptionally well? I feel like a lot of experiments to this end can feel really loving dry, as though it’s over-designed. Sometimes when I see something like this done poorly, I get a vision of the sort of person building the game, and it’s usually not very complimentary. Often, it feels like someone who was more in love with the numbers than the flavor and theming. No shade thrown, but Siralim gives me that vibe a lot, even though it is pretty robust and fun to mess with.
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Oct 18, 2022 20:58
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randomness in a battle system is cool but it requires you to ask a lot of questions about what the randomness is meant to convey and whether it's conceptually fun to engage with and for most jrpg battle systems it's easier to just have a pretty simple setup that feels good to go through every once in a while and doesn't waste too much of your time. the games where randomness works best tend to be built around managing the chaos and risk of it, rather than setting up your sick ultra combo or just having a brief change of pace from the more casual exploration and questing
The Colonel fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Oct 18, 2022 |
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Oct 18, 2022 21:03
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I don't know if I'd call them the best ever, but the Mario & Luigi GBA and DS RPGs and the first Paper Mario dungeons were pretty fun back in the 2000s. I can't say how people would feel about them now, especially with TTYD going for 180$ or something nowadays.
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Oct 18, 2022 21:39
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King's Field games have a lot of flaws but the exploration is extremely good and always kept me hooked despite the annoyances
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Oct 18, 2022 22:32
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I've found I like turn-based RPG combat to be more deterministic than not. Dodge chances and random percents can find their place, but turn order is one of those things I've come to really prefer being either static and/or visibly shown. The order your turns go in is significant in the strategy of it. A fun enough or well enough designed combat system can get by on it's own though.
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Oct 18, 2022 22:38
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I've actually found that I like RNG situations where they are a genuine choice. Like to use a weird example, the Mario + Rabbids game played like XCOM but without RNG except in situations where you or the enemy were in cover. That made taking a shot an informed risk rather than 95% chance miss rate. You might hit or you might not but it was in that very specific situation that it was RNG, so you were encouraged to see if you could use the game's movement tech to figure out a way to assure a hit instead. That's a good example of RNG because it gives you a reason to gamble but also gives you tools so you don't have to.
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Oct 18, 2022 22:41
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ImpAtom posted:I've actually found that I like RNG situations where they are a genuine choice. Oh, yeah, I can love a good gamble if it's implemented well like how that sounds. I just find on the whole, most RNG implementations don't deliver in a satisfying way.
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Oct 18, 2022 22:48
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Odd Wilson posted:Oh, yeah, I can love a good gamble if it's implemented well like how that sounds. I just find on the whole, most RNG implementations don't deliver in a satisfying way. Oh yeah, I agree. I think RNG has its place but it is a place where you need to decide if a gamble is worth it and there is a non-gamble option, rather than just "every attack is a gamble."
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Oct 18, 2022 22:58
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What is life if not a long series of universal scale RNGs
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Oct 18, 2022 23:19
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I think RNG goes well with dungeon crawling: a good dungeon crawler is in many ways a push-your-luck game, and it makes the game more interesting to give normal encounters a bit of randomness. That way, the player can choose between a riskier option that will probably use fewer resources, and a safer strategy that will probably use more. For example, I think Etrian Odyssey would suffer were it more deterministic.
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Oct 18, 2022 23:48
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ImpAtom posted:I've actually found that I like RNG situations where they are a genuine choice. also it's a flat 50% of the time, every time
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Oct 19, 2022 00:04
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I respect the existence of low accuracy attacks even if I will never use them. Unless I can stack accuracy to counteract the penalty, in which case I will use the heck out of them.
Clarste fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Oct 19, 2022 |
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Oct 19, 2022 00:14
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I've been playing through Arcanum for the first time in 3 or 4 years and having a blast, man is it even buggier than I remembered. twice now I've just had Sogg disappear from my party in two different saves in non-combat situations and not appear at either Shrouded Hills inn or that little spot he's supposed to have by the river to be re-recruited. both times he was carrying the god damned Sword of Baltar. also had Chukka glitch out when I loaded a previously fine save, went from +30~ opinion to -xx, left my party and aggroed on us only to get cleaved in two by Magnus immediately. Mandalore just released a new retrospective video about it that was good so maybe it will get some extra attention on the internet for an extra week or two. the most recent (from 2020) Unofficial Arcanum Patch added the ability to play as full Orc/Ogre/Dark Elf characters and at least for the dark elves, there actually are game references to you being a sicko elf
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Oct 19, 2022 00:30
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Now that I have a Steam Deck and it's easy as hell to carry a magical emulator machine around on me, I'm curious about rom hacks. Any particularly good bugfix or QoL hacks for "classic" RPGs? I'm thinking probably PS2 era and earlier. I'd also be curious about whether there are any really good added content mods/hacks but I've never come across any that were particularly good or didn't just break game balance in hilarious ways.
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Oct 19, 2022 00:44
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Shout outs to Golden Sun's damage randomizer which was adding a random number between 0-3. Just enough to make it look random but functionally non-existent. This also reminded me that enemy HP values weren't static in old DQ games. They were slightly randomized so it would be hard to tell just how much damage you'd need to do to eliminate an enemy in any given encounter, especially early game where you could actually keep the numbers straight.
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Oct 19, 2022 01:05
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I like randomized stats on mobs because it helps sell you on the illusion that its a living world with many creatures even if there's only like 20 monster sprites for the entire game. They should take a step further and randomize their movesets too and add random visual flairs/embellishments
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Oct 19, 2022 01:14
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Hyper Inferno posted:Shout outs to Golden Sun's damage randomizer which was adding a random number between 0-3. Just enough to make it look random but functionally non-existent. I played like the first thirty minutes of the first GS game and I mainly remember liking the damage breakdown at the end of your turn. "[Enemy took 1 HP of damage]" or something like that. It's just very helpful to me instead of numbers floating by. In FFXII which I've been playing, there is this huge enemy where I couldn't even see ht edamage I was (not) doing with my physical attacks until I got the camera in just the right angle.
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Oct 19, 2022 01:20
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Yeah games like dragon quest and Golden Sun feed you battle info in text/storybook format and I've always been a fan of that. Definitely helps kids get better at reading without them realizing they're "reading" which is a nice bonus.
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Oct 19, 2022 01:24
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I always found it fun that in modern DQ games for AoE attacks the game doesn't break down the exact damage each target took, it just goes "The enemies took around 20 points of damage each" or something like that.NikkolasKing posted:I played like the first thirty minutes of the first GS game and I mainly remember liking the damage breakdown at the end of your turn. "[Enemy took 1 HP of damage]" or something like that. There was one RPG (I think it was VP: Covenant of the Plume) where you can't actually see how much damage one of the stronger attacks in the game does because the camera for the attack goes just a little bit off field to hide the damage numbers. This was probably an intentional joke though.
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Oct 19, 2022 01:44
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Weird Pumpkin posted:I guess I kind of get the idea that like.. "in our story driven game if people see the entire story including the end they won't want or need to buy it themselves" and how that'd be something they consider Some companies understand streaming can help drive sales. Guardians of the Galaxy had a special streaming mode, which just changed the soundtrack to eliminate the licensed music so you wouldn't run afoul of an auto ban.
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Oct 19, 2022 02:24
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drat Nuwa doesn't gently caress around with the sacrifice of clay+critical attack
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Oct 19, 2022 03:48
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I'm watching RPGLimitBreak's Suikothon and I somehow forgot just how bad Suikoden 4 was. Bad graphics, bad story, bad voice acting, bad protagonist, bad true rune, bad overworld, just bad. I'm amazed they even had the chance to make another game before the series died. Suikoden 3 still looks decent though.
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Oct 19, 2022 05:18
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Suikoden 5 came out quickly enough after 4 and Tactics that I think there may have been some overlap in their development cycles, especially with Hudson brought on to speed things up. Maybe 5 was already too far along to be worth cancelling.
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Oct 19, 2022 05:31
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm watching RPGLimitBreak's Suikothon and I somehow forgot just how bad Suikoden 4 was. Bad graphics, bad story, bad voice acting, bad protagonist, bad true rune, bad overworld, just bad. I'm amazed they even had the chance to make another game before the series died. It's too bad 4 sucked because the idea of the castle being a boat and having nautical adventures was cool.
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Oct 19, 2022 14:42
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there's also the fact that bad sequels usually sell alright because people don't generally pay that much attention to reviews, it's the game after the bad sequel that will suffer for the sins of its predecessors. this is why many a series has been stopped right after an excellent game that was looking to turn things around.
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Oct 19, 2022 15:11
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i like the more bizarre kind of outcome, where you get like a battle network and 4 peaked and then subsequently tanked the series' sales after they followed it up with 5, but then 5 being pretty decent led to significantly increased sales on 6 and then capcom canned the series. and then they started a new series that, split the fanbase and had a middling start and a worse followup. literally would have been way better off just continuing battle network, the sales, were visibly improving and star force just ended up actually selling worse because everything about it was so obtuse was also funny when they were doing a weird port of battle network 1 and said "i think this game... will appeal to both battle network and star force fans wink" and what that meant was it was literally just battle network 1 with one extra chapter where star force crosses over into it. was capcom trying to make everyone as confused as possible in the ds era. what was their plan.
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Oct 19, 2022 15:29
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Amppelix posted:there's also the fact that bad sequels usually sell alright because people don't generally pay that much attention to reviews, it's the game after the bad sequel that will suffer for the sins of its predecessors. this is why many a series has been stopped right after an excellent game that was looking to turn things around. It is not a bad game but everybody said it was for a decade, but Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3 are the best proof of this I know. MGS3 is one of the most universally praised games I know but it sold much less than 2 because 2 left such a sour taste in the mouths of millions of gamers.
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Oct 19, 2022 17:40
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MGS2 is one of the greatest games ever made though so it doesn't really track
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Oct 19, 2022 17:42
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Sakurazuka posted:MGS2 is one of the greatest games ever made though so it doesn't really track I love MGS2 but the bait and switch left a huge sour note for a lot of people. It is why the next *three* games feature attempts at either mocking or redoing Raiden. Pre MGS4 dude was reviled and it wasn't until Revengence that there was a real turn around.
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Oct 19, 2022 17:49
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BurningBeard posted:Which games do y’all think have the best exploration and/or dungeons? Have you tried Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past or the 3DS remake Link Between Worlds? Both are light on story and just fun to wander around in with solid dungeon mechanics. You need to be very thorough with exploration to finish the game.
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Oct 19, 2022 17:52
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Sometimes great art just isn't appreciated in its own time.
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Oct 19, 2022 17:56
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ImpAtom posted:I love MGS2 but the bait and switch left a huge sour note for a lot of people. It is why the next *three* games feature attempts at either mocking or redoing Raiden. Yep. It's a weird feeling but after a few more years, I'll probably run into kids who are like "what? People hate MGS2 and Raiden? No way!" and I'll have to point to Raikov in MGS3 or dig up old threads like Chip Cheezum's LP to show that, yes, at one point in time, Raiden was just a giant gay joke and MGS2 was derided as the most pretentious garbage ever in a video game. I loved MGS2 since the start and argued with people for years and years until one day it all just flipped. People always have different explanations for these reversals. Either all the haters just left and stopped talking about it or people realized it was good. Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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Oct 19, 2022 18:00
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