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Mourning Due posted:Bleh. lovely start to the morning anyway. How would you all have handled a situation like this? At what point should one say something or step in? And in what capacity? Sounds like a lovely situation all round. In an ideal world you could ask him if he wants/needs help and signpost him appropriately but if he's going to be violent the plod are going to get involved at some point. Again in an ideal world the plod would show up and chat to the guy. Reality is the plod don't have the manpower to care until the guy goes off the rails and then they show up with the tasers/dogs/guns and you end up with the worst possible outcome.
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Nov 7, 2022 10:30
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Stealing the food and threatening people, but still queued up.
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Nov 7, 2022 10:43
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This Guardian 'I'm a Celebrity' review snippet made me lolquote:Former contestant Lembit Öpik, himself a former politician, told the Guardian that I’m a Celebrity might well be the making of Hancock. It might even make him likable, once viewers get to see the real Matt behind the media coverage. I know what you’re thinking. Lembit who? 
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Nov 7, 2022 10:47
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Dealing with this kind of situation is what the defund the police movement was all about, they just picked completely the wrong slogan
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Nov 7, 2022 10:48
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Stealing the food and threatening people, but still queued up. 😆😆 Yeah, it was really odd. Imagine he was just buying time to eat more yumyums.
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Nov 7, 2022 10:48
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fuctifino posted:This Guardian 'I'm a Celebrity' review snippet made me lol Literally all I know about him is that he dated (married?) a Cheeky Girl, and he has a Star Wars name
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Nov 7, 2022 10:49
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Mourning Due posted:😆😆 Yeah, it was really odd. Imagine he was just buying time to eat more yumyums. Aren't we all
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Nov 7, 2022 10:50
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fuctifino posted:This Guardian 'I'm a Celebrity' review snippet made me lol Didn’t he marry a cheeky girl which is the fact that overshadows everything else anyone knows about him E:fb
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Nov 7, 2022 10:50
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Failed Imagineer posted:Literally all I know about him is that he dated (married?) a Cheeky Girl, and he has a Star Wars name I think he was in charge of UK defence from asteroid impact for a while.
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Nov 7, 2022 10:55
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Failed Imagineer posted:Literally all I know about him is that he dated (married?) a Cheeky Girl Left one or right one?
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Nov 7, 2022 10:55
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Mourning Due posted:Ugh, faced a moral dilemma this morning, don't feel like I handled it well. Would like your thoughts for next time. This is actually a thing, not everywhere has them unfortunately but some places have a team of trained mental health practitioners on duty that respond to incidents like this and are backed up by local police, in our case it’s a chaplaincy and they tend to base themselves near a local suicide hotspot (Beachy Head) it actually works considerably well especially when the local hospital only has one MH bed and if it’s occupied all others detained under MH end up in police custody. Don’t ever feel bad about not engaging with a potentially violent individual as theirs every possibility your involvement could just make things worse, the best thing to do is remove yourself from the situation to a safe position and ensure others do the same.
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Nov 7, 2022 10:58
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Barry Foster posted:Left one or right one? Yeah I think he left her eventually
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Nov 7, 2022 10:59
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Stealing the food and threatening people, but still queued up. aye this wasn't about the food and drink, they could have walked in and grabbed all the food they wanted, grabbed a bottled drink or three and walked out without a word- then the moral response is you didn't see or hear nuffin' instead it's a situation where there seems an intent to provoke a reaction and workers and public are clearly feeling threatened- theres actual harm being done there to multiple innocent people without a single punch being thrown there's something complex going on with that person and helping them not do poo poo like menace random people in a greggs would require some quality intervention and social work, and significant time and money for a good outcome using extensive support and monitoring frameworks that doesn't exist, and beyond the attempts made by op and others to calm the situation all you have is the cops or doing nothing and a line then to be drawn where the potential harm to the person you call the cops on is overweighed by harm done to the general public by not doing so
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Nov 7, 2022 11:08
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https://twitter.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1589538978616594433 e: People are now being arrested for precrimes (more so) https://twitter.com/MetPoliceEvents/status/1589383174278479874 fuctifino fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Nov 7, 2022 |
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Nov 7, 2022 11:08
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Failed Imagineer posted:Literally all I know about him is that he dated (married?) a Cheeky Girl, and he has a Star Wars name There was a goon who was related to him, a nephew or cousin or something? I forget who
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Nov 7, 2022 11:12
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you should organise yourself and keep a file-o'fax with details of your fellow forums posters imo
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Nov 7, 2022 11:28
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We now have Alex Jones style truthers about the manchester concert bombing stalking the victims. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-arena-attack-victims-accused-25398368 Over five years on from the terrorist attack which took the lives of 22 people at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, Martin Hibbert's daughter, Eve, still spends two days a week in hospital. Mr Hibbert, 45, was standing with Eve, then 14, when a suicide bomber detonated his explosive vest shortly after 10pm on May 22, 2017 in the foyer of the Manchester Arena. He suffered 22 shrapnel wounds, including one that severed his spinal cord, as he attempted to shield Eve from the blast. But one bolt struck her in the head, causing a significant brain injury that he compared to 'being shot in the head.' Martin requires the use of a wheelchair and Eve, who has just turned 20, has a complex range of injuries which mean she still has to visit Salford Royal Hospital regularly. At one point, it wasn't clear if either of them would live. Like many people who witnessed the atrocity that night, Martin and his daughter have spent years attempting to overcome the emotional impact of the blast - something which is now being undermined by a phenomenon thought to have been isolated to the US. Victims like Martin say they have now come under attack from conspiracy theorists who claim that UK terror attacks, such as the Manchester arena bombing, were in fact staged. It comes after a BBC investigation which revealed how one theorist, based in Wales, had even visited victims' homes, setting up cameras in an attempt to prove they had lied about their injuries. According to a Panorama report, which will air tonight, a man named Richard D Hall described how he physically tracked down survivors of the attack - including Martin's daughter Eve - to determine if it was faked.
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Nov 7, 2022 11:30
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crispix posted:you should organise yourself and keep a file-o'fax with details of your fellow forums posters imo You should create the Wiki so I don't have to do anything. I like to stick in my lane of expertise and that's doing nothing. Jippa posted:We now have Alex Jones style truthers about the manchester concert bombing stalking the victims. Why the gently caress can't these cretins be cynical about something worth being cynical about instead of deciding to monster victims of an attack? gently caress me.
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Nov 7, 2022 11:34
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fuctifino posted:https://twitter.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1589538978616594433 This time they haven't gone too far enough
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Nov 7, 2022 11:34
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forkboy84 posted:You should create the Wiki so I don't have to do anything. I like to stick in my lane of expertise and that's doing nothing. It is much, much harder to stare reality in the face than it is to come up with, and then lose yourself in, completely baseless conspiracy theories Hell, the reason people fall into the latter is precisely because of the former, it's a well-known phenomenon
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Nov 7, 2022 11:40
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Is lembit opik not now the head of some cult of space faring pedophiles?
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Nov 7, 2022 11:41
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forkboy84 posted:Why the gently caress can't these cretins be cynical about something worth being cynical about instead of deciding to monster victims of an attack? gently caress me. Since the '90s brainlords like Alex Jones and David Icke have been claiming that the government are faking mass shootings to take everyone's guns away, and they desperately need to square " I'm not quite sure why the government could not have just actually shot the kids with their bad government guns and blamed a patsy, but I thankfully don't live in their brains. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do the same with an improvised bombing though. Government going to take our improvised bombs? I'm beginning to suspect that there is an even greater childlike root denial that bad things ever happen underpinning the whole thing. That fits in bomb denial with Covid denial and climate change denial. I even saw some brainlet claiming that there's never been any proof that loving smallpox was contagious. But then they claim that there's nothing bad in the world and then invent baby eating adrenal satanists to get mad about instead. 
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Nov 7, 2022 11:44
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keep punching joe posted:Is lembit opik not now the head of some cult of space faring pedophiles? i thought that was tim davey?
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Nov 7, 2022 11:44
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Failed Imagineer posted:Literally all I know about him is that he dated (married?) a Cheeky Girl, and he has a Star Wars name How quickly you have forgotten that he is related to one of the posters ITT.
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Nov 7, 2022 11:46
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Guavanaut posted:I'm beginning to suspect that there is an even greater childlike root denial that bad things ever happen underpinning the whole thing. That fits in bomb denial with Covid denial and climate change denial. I even saw some brainlet claiming that there's never been any proof that loving smallpox was contagious. Yeah this is my read too. Invented baby eating adrenal satanists a) give them a way to channel all those ambient, diffuse Bad Feelings that are caused by *gestures widely* into something concrete so that b) they can feel like powerful heroes and smart and superior people, because they're Spreading The Truth and Aren't Sheeple And the good thing about invented baby eating adrenal satanists is that they're never going to actually destroy you or your life, because they're not real (unlike covid, or climate change, or global wildlife extinction, or brexit, or late state capitalism, or the security state) Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Nov 7, 2022 |
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Nov 7, 2022 11:47
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fuctifino posted:https://twitter.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1589538978616594433 Police have been doing precrime protest arrests for decades. This isn't some new tactic. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jul/24/public-protest-police-tactics-disproportionate https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/apr/29/royal-wedding-police-criticised-protesters https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/apr/13/nottingham-police-raid-environmental-campaigners Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Nov 7, 2022 |
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Nov 7, 2022 11:51
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fuctifino posted:e: People are now being arrested for precrimes (more so) https://twitter.com/MetPoliceEvents/status/1589383174278479874 I suppose if it was a terrorist planting a bomb the aim would be to prevent the attack and so yeah arrest them beforehand ideally. So its not the pre aspect thats the issue so much as is it a crime to protest and disrupt? Well yeah it is nowadays.
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Nov 7, 2022 11:53
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Stealing the food and threatening people, but still queued up.
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Nov 7, 2022 11:54
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Barry Foster posted:Invented baby eating adrenal satanists a) give them a way to channel all those ambient, diffuse Bad Feelings that are caused by *gestures widely* into something concrete that b) they can feel like powerful heroes and smart and superior people about, because they're Spreading The Truth and Aren't Sheeple Basically the original appeal of any sect, just without any inconvenient moral injunctions
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Nov 7, 2022 11:59
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Guavanaut posted:But then they claim that there's nothing bad in the world and then invent baby eating adrenal satanists to get mad about instead. This is actually an old phenomenon, dating back to probably the albigensian heresy, or the cathars, and repeated during the witch trials. It wasn't just that people were scared of witches, or people doing christianity wrong, it's that in both instances, significant portions of the church were convinced that there was an organized, international, oppositional force to the church itself. While there quite possibly were some people who had a different interpretation of christianity at the time of the cathars, there is very little evidence, other than in writings of the catholics, to suggest that there was an actual organized breakaway sect, and a lot of people are apparently now wondering whether they were basically just making it up the way it clearly was with the witch trials by using torture and leading questions to create confessions of organized heresy. The witch trials were prompted by the idea not just that witches existed, but that they were a satanically organized international conspiracy to overthrow the authority of the church and delay judgement day, directly inspired by satan as a final outrage against god, and they invented all sorts of weird identifiers that you could use to tell if someone was a witch and, of course, by prompting people and torturing them they created confessions based on the literature promulgated among witchfinders like the king james demonologie and the malleus maleficarum. I think honestly there is just a strain of thought, particularly among religious people as that seems to be where the idea keeps popping up, but in the modern day likely including a lot of people who are perhaps not organized religious but believe in similar narrative focused worldviews, that leads them to basically deny reality when it doesn't fit with the narrative and to invent ideas that do. I don't think they are susceptible to direct influence by reality, rather everything is filtered through a storybook conception of the world and either discarded or used as basically a writing prompt to expand the story. And this is reinforced by communal action, they talk to each other and listen to people like alex jones who prompt them with more narrative hooks, and develop this storybook idea where they're at the center of some big romantic conspiracy but they can do something about it by praying a lot, or voting for people who say the right words.
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Nov 7, 2022 12:02
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I think it is Ms A who has Mr Cheeky as a relative.
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Nov 7, 2022 12:11
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You could probably draw it even further back to the ancient Levant and the tribes convinced that everyone but us was sacrificing children to Moloch, which is a good diversion from it being the Bronze Age and infant mortality being extremely high. Someone is to blame for this, and great news, it's not you! At least all of those people admitted that people died though. It's terrible to blame Jews for poisoning wells, it's also negligent to claim "no actually I heard that the well is fine" without proof, there probably is something bad with the well, dig a new one. That's the difference between claiming that the FBI has been infiltrated by Bolshevists who are going around doing terror attacks and claiming that no, there was no terror attack, crisis actors, crisis doctors, they're putting me on a crisis ventilator!
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Nov 7, 2022 12:14
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I think it is Ms A who has Mr Cheeky as a relative. The whole family is drawn by Roger Hargreaves
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Nov 7, 2022 12:24
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OwlFancier posted:the malleus maleficarum. I read a blog post about this recently. Best quote from the book: famous witchfinder posted:And what, then, is to be thought of those witches who in this way sometimes collect male organs in great numbers, as many as twenty or thirty members together, and put them in a bird's nest, or shut them up in a box, where they move themselves like living members, and eat oats and corn, as has been seen by many and is a matter of common report? It is to be said that it is all done by devil's work and illusion, for the senses of those who see them are deluded in the way we have said. For a certain man tells that, when he had lost his member, he approached a known witch to ask her to restore it to him. She told the afflicted man to climb a certain tree, and that he might take which he liked out of the nest in which there were several members. And when he tried to take a big one, the witch said: You must not take that one; adding, because it belongs to a parish priest.
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Nov 7, 2022 12:32
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Oh yeah like they absolutely make up the most deranged poo poo, and clearly there's the social aspect there too, like they're talking to people and coming up with these even more insane ideas. But they also take existing ideas like the idea of witches riding to the sabbat on broomsticks, the idea of women going off on some method of conveyance in the night to meet up with supernatural powers is very old, I think pre-christian, but the early christian thinkers are very adamant that it isn't real, in fact that a lot of magic isn't real, people only dream that it happens basically. Then later on they change that to say that it is real and it is a serious threat. Though again there are often these weird specific ideas about how being a witch doesn't really grant you super powers, it's just you being tricked and actually it's the devil doing it, and especially stuff like divination doesn't, and cannot work, but demons can simply fly and move very quickly and invisibly, so they can find out stuff happening far away and tell you about it, or simply they are very long lived and are therefore good at guessing how stuff usually goes. But actual foreknowledge is the sole domain of god and so nobody else is allowed to have it. It puts me in mind of the "the enemy is simultaneously very strong and very weak" idea, where there is this clear idea that this is an existential crisis on one hand, but no matter what happens god is going to win eventually and there can't be any suggestion otherwise. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Nov 7, 2022 |
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Nov 7, 2022 12:36
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Guavanaut posted:I'm beginning to suspect that there is an even greater childlike root denial that bad things ever happen underpinning the whole thing. That fits in bomb denial with Covid denial and climate change denial. I even saw some brainlet claiming that there's never been any proof that loving smallpox was contagious. I think people struggle with the idea that really bad things can happen randomly (covid). Or that bad things can happen as a result of things you think are good, or are complicit in (consumerism -> climate change) So it’s a lot easier to invent bad actors that can give meaning to the chaos and put you on the right side of the story.
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Nov 7, 2022 12:40
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OwlFancier posted:Oh yeah like they absolutely make up the most deranged poo poo, and clearly there's the social aspect there too, like they're talking to people and coming up with these even more insane ideas. But they also take existing ideas like the idea of witches riding to the sabbat on broomsticks, the idea of women going off on some method of conveyance in the night to meet up with supernatural powers is very old, I think pre-christian, but the early christian thinkers are very adamant that it isn't real, in fact that a lot of magic isn't real, people only dream that it happens basically. Then later on they change that to say that it is real and it is a serious threat. Seeing your enemies as dark mirror versions of yourself is a paranoid trait which can often be reavealing as to what your own flaws are. In the context of conspiracy theorists this is particularly telling but religion vs occult absolutely counts too. There's a witchcraft museum in cornwall we went to this summer and what it really brought home to me is how much of all that stuff was rooted in basic misogyny, people who absolutely couldn't stand the idea of a woman having any kind of power. No doubt there were some women in the pre-science times who had folk remedies for this and that and fully bought into it but a lot of times there was this sense of "if this is what you say I am, and it grants me a toehold in a society that's completely stacked against me, fine" too.
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Nov 7, 2022 12:59
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https://twitter.com/MetPoliceEvents/status/1589523703230255110 "conspiracy to cause public nuisance"
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Nov 7, 2022 12:59
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killerwhat posted:I read a blog post about this recently. Best quote from the book:
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Nov 7, 2022 13:05
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Isomermaid posted:Seeing your enemies as dark mirror versions of yourself is a paranoid trait which can often be reavealing as to what your own flaws are. In the context of conspiracy theorists this is particularly telling but religion vs occult absolutely counts too.  Payndz posted:I saw the members in the nest eating oats and corn and the parish priest's member looked at me. 
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Nov 7, 2022 13:17
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