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Barrel Cactaur posted:And the correct response is a work to rule action by the way. hold the company fully to the laws and rules on their own books, clock straight out where the trains are at the end of a shift, full inspection before the train starts moving, etc. That would indeed be the best thing to do. Or they can all call in sick. Yeah they’ll all get those penalty points but the RR can’t fire all of them. God, I wish they could all pull from a strike fund or mutual aid and just walk off the job
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Dec 2, 2022 16:38
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:A lot of Presidents have broken transportation strikes. It’s the looming senility that really ties the bow. Union buster, caught up in client state/proxy wars agains the Soviets/Russia, drug warrior, and brain turning to pudding. Not repeating, but rhyming extremely close to scheme.
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Dec 2, 2022 16:40
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selec posted:It’s the looming senility that really ties the bow. Union buster, caught up in client state/proxy wars agains the Soviets/Russia, drug warrior, and brain turning to pudding. Not repeating, but rhyming extremely close to scheme. Union leadership will run to him in 2024, but I’m not so sure about union members.
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Dec 2, 2022 16:45
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-Blackadder- posted:I'm amazed so many R's voted for the extra sick days in the Senate. I saw Hawley's name, so I'm assuming that they're mostly from the burgeoning nativist/white nationalist/Tucker Carlson faction of the GOP. Only six Republicans voted for the sick days. For the sick days to pass, it would have required 60 votes, which means either "all 50 Dems and 10+ Republicans" or "49 Dems and 11+ Republicans". The government of West Virginia is overwhelmingly dominated by Republicans. All of WV's House reps are Republicans, and the governor and the other senator are also both Republicans. Both houses of the state legislature have Republican supermajorities. Manchin faced a progressive challenger in 2018, and won 70-30 (the same progressive challenged the other senator in 2020 and was defeated 70-28). The chances of any other Democrat winning statewide office in West Virginia are widely regarded as low, and there isn't really any bench of successful WV Democrats who've proven their ability to compete at the statewide level.
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Dec 2, 2022 16:45
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Nucleic Acids posted:Union leadership will run to him in 2024, but I’m not so sure about union members. Can’t wait for Biden to say that he’s a friend of the unions and Pro-labor when he’s campaigning for 2024
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Dec 2, 2022 17:05
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Nucleic Acids posted:Union leadership will run to him in 2024, but I’m not so sure about union members. I'm usually skeptical of claims that (traditionally Dem-aligned group) will not support Democrats in the next election because of (bad thing years before election) because they can just point to the GOP and go "yeah, there's your alternative". In this case though, I think that I agree that there will be some consequences. Rank and file labor union members are probably going to remember this and are not going to be as excited about supporting Biden.
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Dec 2, 2022 17:18
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Dietrich posted:Not sure why that's your take away but you're kinda proving her point. This seems awfully hostile. What’s your takeaway from those tweets, and what point do you think is being proven? Youth Decay posted:Alice just tweets every random thought that comes into her brain and has been canceled about 20 times over for various tweets but I honestly can't be bothered to be bothered by them. She's funny and a good podcaster and that's it. Mischievous Mink posted here to let folks know that they things Alice says are hurtful to them. It hurts when people are dismissive of your position entirely (Dietrich, Agents are GO!) or when they use a caricature of yourself as fodder for jokes. I don’t really know who these people are or what’s going on but I do know that rolling your eyes are anybody getting raped is pretty monstrous. I suspect most people reading this can decide whether or not they think Alice is funny or a good podcaster. That’s most certainly not all she is though. Put on those blinders if you’d like. But it takes a special kind of rear end in a top hat to put on those blinders then come out of the woodwork to shut down somebody who is hurting so you can brag about the gigantic blinders you’re rocking.
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Dec 2, 2022 17:21
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tk posted:This seems awfully hostile. What’s your takeaway from those tweets, and what point do you think is being proven? Policing stuff that is essentially entertainment is a joyless path. People get to make their own decisions about if they should/can feel okay about listening to the Ignition Remix, but it can quickly become a process of finding out a lot of things you love can’t really be enjoyed. David Bowie loving around with pretend Nazi cosplay and loving minors. Steven Tyler bought a child bride. Ted Nugent bought a child bride. Slick Rick is a domestic abuser. Patty Smith had that one really problematic song. Good luck with X-Men movies, or anything Bryan Singer touches. But what did you gain by keeping problematic artists’ work off your plate? They didn’t notice the loss unless it was part of a mass action. You just created a narrower band of stuff you’ll consume, so you’re just in the end a picky shopper. They really got our asses this way. Let’s not even get started on the grinding exploitation and misery required to get us all our treats, writ large. I need my diabetes meds, but by giving that company my money I’m funding the company’s efforts to lobby against affordable diabetes meds! They really got my rear end in the barrel. Well, this is true of every other thing in our lives we give away money for. There is no conscientious participation in capitalism possible. There are “good” companies and products and individuals that everybody loves that are actually just not known for their evils yet. In the end, you gotta enjoy yourself because policing yourself just means there’s another cop in your life that you volunteered to hire and support. Do what you can live with, but understand ultimately it’s not going to make the world a better place unless it’s under the yoke of collective action, and if your collective action is built around policing celeb culture you are lost in the sauce, imo. But to be fair, a lot of folks might say my navigation systems are crippled and I’m adrift in the Saucy Seas. Here’s another guy on enjoying yourself in the midst of inescapable exploitation: 
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Dec 2, 2022 17:34
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Dietrich posted:Not sure why that's your take away but you're kinda proving her point. I didn't realize "rape jokes aren't funny, especially when you are a person who's group is the one getting raped" is controverisal take. ... Also RE: Disney bond issue: You can see what happens when a theme park *doesn't* have a special liscene to do their own infurstructure by looking at the issues surrounding Universal Studios building their third gate and the people of Orange County are on the hook for a surprising amount. Such as a $125 million USD for 1.7 miles of road.
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Dec 2, 2022 17:42
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Twincityhacker posted:Also RE: Disney bond issue: You can see what happens when a theme park *doesn't* have a special liscene to do their own infurstructure by looking at the issues surrounding Universal Studios building their third gate and the people of Orange County are on the hook for a surprising amount. Such as a $125 million USD for 1.7 miles of road. RCID is an effective barrier between the costs of running a huge campus and the taxpayers who would otherwise have to chip in to underwrite corporate profit generation. unfortunately, understanding how local governments operate is boring and takes a lot of time, while saying that corporations should simply be murdered is thrilling and easy
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Dec 2, 2022 17:46
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Biden is taking a bold stance against Nazis. https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1598714500286406657
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Dec 2, 2022 17:50
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I must be missing an awful lot of context because I don't see a rape joke in that series of tweets at all. The expanded tweet is stating that she's not ignoring corrective rape as a problem, she just doesn't see it as a differentiator between the lesbian and asexual communities because they both are common victims of it? What am I missing here? I don't know poo poo about her or her podcast.
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Dec 2, 2022 17:51
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Turns out company towns are great when the only people who live there are people who can afford $5 million USD houses.
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Dec 2, 2022 17:52
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Rigel posted:Biden is taking a bold stance against Nazis. I mean with how fast twitter is imploding and how kanye is being boosted by chuds who is In turn boosting fucks like nick Fuentes and how Elon will let them run ramps and the gop will just defend them or excuse them, someone needed to say it again.
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Dec 2, 2022 17:53
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Rigel posted:Biden is taking a bold stance against Nazis. The anti-semite Majory Taylor Green, she of Jewish Space Lasers fame, just got re-elected to Congress. And I'm sure there's more. She's just been the most open about it. Having the opinon "killing Jewish people is bad" should be said more often.
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Dec 2, 2022 18:02
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Saying it doesn’t do anything. Nazis love when you say poo poo like that because it keeps them in the conversation. Unless you’re going after their material base of support and arresting and punishing their leadership, they’re still in the place they want to be. Of course they want Biden and every other “respected” figure to say they’re repugnant. They do not have a standard set of political goals so responding to them with political rhetoric is ineffective. Antisemetism is the Marxism of fools. The surge in both disaffected leftists and disaffected reactionaries in our political culture is a huge klaxoning red warning that material conditions are breaking down to the point that mystification of the conditions of their own lives doesn’t work on a big chunk of the population anymore—shits too clear and the explanations of small-L liberalism, from both parties, are laughable to a broad swath of people. You need to be able to explain to people, credibly, why their lives are like they are. Neither mainstream party is able to do that to an increasing share of the populace, who will seek out a more satisfying narrative than the one they can see on TV news or read in mainstream press.
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Dec 2, 2022 18:08
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Twincityhacker posted:Turns out company towns are great when the only people who live there are people who can afford $5 million USD houses. the homes in RCID are pretty modest, disney basically rents them out for nothing to disney employees who serve as the regulatory minimum voters necessary to operate the district as a governmental body in florida. this is all an artifact of walt disney wanting to build an actual city, EPCOT, so RCID was structured as if it were going to be an actual city of thousands of residents. but then he died and nobody else was really interested in following up on that weird vision, preferring to move ahead with the massive tourist resort without the futuristic City of Tomorrow attached. regardless, RCID exists and needs voters to vote for things, so disney employees who work as the managers of RCID also live on the property and vote for the things they were planning to do anyway. nobody else lives there, RCID doesn't build homes for sale because they don't want to be in the business of running an actual town, the incredibly lucrative tourist resort is enough to deal with its strange for sure but it works out well enough, especially given that being structured as a government means that everything RCID does is a matter of public record like any other government in florida. fwiw kids who live in RCID attend the local county schools and disney pays property taxes to the local counties for any government services which RCID doesn't handle itself. this also means that RCID can crank up the property taxes they charge disney to extremely high levels to pay for all the infrastructure disney needs for their resort, and it doesn't cost local citizens anything https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-cities-20150522-story.html Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Dec 2, 2022 |
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Dec 2, 2022 18:08
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Twincityhacker posted:The anti-semite Majory Taylor Green, she of Jewish Space Lasers fame, just got re-elected to Congress. And I'm sure there's more. She's just been the most open about it. you've been missing the ye meltdown on twitter i guess
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Dec 2, 2022 18:08
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tk posted:Mischievous Mink posted here to let folks know that they things Alice says are hurtful to them. It hurts when people are dismissive of your position entirely (Dietrich, Agents are GO!) Sorry, that wasn't intended to come across as dismissive, I'd just never encountered the term before. I can see the utility of the term for in-group discussion, but honestly as an outsider it seems faintly humorous - like someone with coulrophobia talking about "clown culture." As for the podcast thing, I generally don't listen to podcasts so I don't have any opinions on that particular bone of contention, but from the tweets up there, the "Meth Lab for Cutie" person seems like a douchebag.
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Dec 2, 2022 18:24
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Twincityhacker posted:The anti-semite Majory Taylor Green, she of Jewish Space Lasers fame, just got re-elected to Congress. And I'm sure there's more. She's just been the most open about it. He's just virtue signaling to the Israeli government
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Dec 2, 2022 18:27
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Elephant Ambush posted:He's just virtue signaling to the Israeli government I've already have a long day, and I litterally cannot tell if you are shitposting right now.
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Dec 2, 2022 18:28
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Re: Unions, so why is it that Biden is fine forcing workers to accept a contract they don't want to avoid a strike, but not fine forcing a railway company to accept a contract they don't want to avoid a strike? Like, the whole "this would be disastrous for the economy" thing is obviously just a smokescreen for the fact that he deliberately chose to force the workers to bear the brunt of the damage and not the rich owner class. Like, I realize this isn't insightful at all it just pisses me off.
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Dec 2, 2022 19:24
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Clarste posted:Re: Unions, so why is it that Biden is fine forcing workers to accept a contract they don't want to avoid a strike, but not fine forcing a railway company to accept a contract they don't want to avoid a strike? Like, the whole "this would be disastrous for the economy" thing is obviously just a smokescreen for the fact that he deliberately chose to force the workers to bear the brunt of the damage and not the rich owner class. Because Biden is on the side of capital. If there was ever a moment to prove that he was pro-labor, this was it. Pro-labor until he had to prove it
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Dec 2, 2022 19:29
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Clarste posted:Re: Unions, so why is it that Biden is fine forcing workers to accept a contract they don't want to avoid a strike, but not fine forcing a railway company to accept a contract they don't want to avoid a strike? Like, the whole "this would be disastrous for the economy" thing is obviously just a smokescreen for the fact that he deliberately chose to force the workers to bear the brunt of the damage and not the rich owner class. It’s inaccurate. The thing he’s “forcing” was an agreement tentatively negotiated between the unions and the railroads. If he were “forcing the workers to bear the brunt of the damage”, neither the prior negotiations nor the tentative agreement would have occurred- which included a lot of other concessions from the railroads. The entity that actually voted on this “forcing” was Congress, where there were never the votes for something beyond the negotiated agreement.
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Dec 2, 2022 19:36
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How realistic was the expectation of a strike, wildcat or not? Has anyone done the math on ratification vote totals within the unions?
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Dec 2, 2022 19:39
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Twincityhacker posted:I've already have a long day, and I litterally cannot tell if you are shitposting right now. Not a shitpost. To people like Biden, antisemitism mostly means "opposed to apartheid imposed by the Israeli government" and he's making sure Israel knows he has their backs
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Dec 2, 2022 19:41
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Discendo Vox posted:It’s inaccurate. The thing he’s “forcing” was an agreement tentatively negotiated between the unions and the railroads. If he were “forcing the workers to bear the brunt of the damage”, neither the prior negotiations nor the tentative agreement would have occurred- which included a lot of other concessions from the railroads. The entity that actually voted on this “forcing” was Congress, where there were never the votes for something beyond the negotiated agreement.  It's incredibly ironic, but not at all unexpected to see you spreading disinformation. quote:The thing he’s “forcing” was an agreement tentatively negotiated between the unions and the railroads. Is an inaccurate statement because it is overly general: you are blatantly omitting the fact that this bargaining agreement was agreed upon by union leadership and the railroads and has been rejected on a simple majority basis by union membership. This has been brought up ad nauseum in this thread and frankly, it's disappointing to see you using an inaccurate framework to try and shift responsibility away from the Democratic majority.
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Dec 2, 2022 19:49
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Discendo Vox posted:It’s inaccurate. The thing he’s “forcing” was an agreement tentatively negotiated between the unions and the railroads. If he were “forcing the workers to bear the brunt of the damage”, neither the prior negotiations nor the tentative agreement would have occurred- which included a lot of other concessions from the railroads. The entity that actually voted on this “forcing” was Congress, where there were never the votes for something beyond the negotiated agreement. You're quibbling over the details. Biden called on Congress to vote to prevent the workers from striking, which they did, and this forced the workers to accept a contract that they had previously rejected. We all saw this happen. Everything else is irrelevant to the outcome. If he actually cared about labor rights, he could have simply done nothing at all. This was an active choice on his part.
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Dec 2, 2022 19:49
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theCalamity posted:Because Biden is on the side of capital. If there was ever a moment to prove that he was pro-labor, this was it. What it really boils down to for me is that Biden (and the rest of the dems) could have done literally nothing at all and it would have been better for labor than what we're getting.
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Dec 2, 2022 19:50
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Discendo Vox posted:It’s inaccurate. The thing he’s “forcing” was an agreement tentatively negotiated between the unions and the railroads. If he were “forcing the workers to bear the brunt of the damage”, neither the prior negotiations nor the tentative agreement would have occurred- which included a lot of other concessions from the railroads. The entity that actually voted on this “forcing” was Congress, where there were never the votes for something beyond the negotiated agreement. Wrong. The unions did not agree to said agreement. If Congress had not intervened, there is not a single intelligent person on this earth that believes that the workers would not have won the concessions they needed from the railway. The only reason things got to the point where a strike was threatened is that the Railway bosses knew for a fact that Congress would never allow one to occur. Congress intervening at all, let alone forcing an agreement the Unions did not agree to, was intervening on behalf of the Railway companies. It was not a compromise or middle ground. Congress had all the votes they needed to do the right thing, which was not passing any legislation that forced a lovely and inadequate contract on the workers.
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Dec 2, 2022 19:50
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Discendo Vox posted:It’s inaccurate. The thing he’s “forcing” was an agreement tentatively negotiated between the unions and the railroads. If he were “forcing the workers to bear the brunt of the damage”, neither the prior negotiations nor the tentative agreement would have occurred- which included a lot of other concessions from the railroads. The entity that actually voted on this “forcing” was Congress, where there were never the votes for something beyond the negotiated agreement. These were decisions of a Congress that was asked by an executive. Or are you implying that various different measures the administration has taken were not in support of what Congress has done?
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Dec 2, 2022 19:52
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DivorceLord posted:How realistic was the expectation of a strike, wildcat or not? Has anyone done the math on ratification vote totals within the unions? There was never significant likelihood of a strike; there have been a bunch of these congressionally mandated agreements before, with the last strike from the 90s being ended by one.
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Dec 2, 2022 19:52
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Lib and let die posted:
This is why I keep saying it's more accurate to view the conflict as The unions wanted to keep negotiating and Congress voting to end negotiations and force them to the current contract. Neither side is getting 100% of what they wanted but also Congress did not fall on the side of labor since they decided negotiations should stop and that there wouldn't be any additional concessions given to labor. Not having the votes as an explanation for why a politician did or didn't do something is just conjecture. We're not privy to the private negotiations that bring them to the votes. We don't know what private pressure Biden did or didn't apply for which outcomes.
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Dec 2, 2022 19:55
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So if what happened was the anti-labor move, then what would have been the pro-labor move by Congress here? It sounds like they should've put up a single bill that includes the sick days. How would that move have likely played out? Did we have the votes for it to pass or would we have been watching Manchin pull a Slim Pickins at the end of Dr. Strangelove?
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Dec 2, 2022 19:58
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Josef bugman posted:These were decisions of a Congress that was asked by an executive. Or are you implying that various different measures the administration has taken were not in support of what Congress has done? Congress would have pursued a mandate on the agreement regardless(they were getting the same messaging from, e.g., the ag sector that Biden was). Congress is what votes on this. the principal difference compared with previous negotiation rounds is that the administration played a more active role in negotiating a tentative agreement that got concessions from the railways, and Biden took flak for the Dem caucus because the administration was so publicly involved in the earlier negotiations. -Blackadder- posted:So if what happened was the anti-labor move, then what would have been the pro-labor move by Congress here? There were never 60 votes for such a bill. The pro labor move, such as it is, is to use the complaints not addressed by the agreement to push for executive actions, greater regulation and more pro-labor members in congress. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Dec 2, 2022 |
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Dec 2, 2022 19:58
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Discendo Vox posted:The entity that actually voted on this “forcing” was Congress, where there were never the votes for something beyond the negotiated agreement. If Biden was trapped in a train tunnel last Friday and only escaped this morning, Congress would have had nothing to vote on. He also could have vetoed it. Biden urged Congress to act knowing exactly what the result would be.
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Dec 2, 2022 19:59
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-Blackadder- posted:So if what happened was the anti-labor move, then what would have been the pro-labor move by Congress here? Pass a single bill with mandatory allowances for day-of callouts without punishment. They did not have the votes to pass in the Senate. Not really clear how it would have played out once it failed in the senate. Likely a strike, but no way to 100% accurately predict what happens afterwards.
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Dec 2, 2022 20:00
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Rochallor posted:If Biden was trapped in a train tunnel last Friday and only escaped this morning, Congress would have had nothing to vote on. He also could have vetoed it. Biden urged Congress to act knowing exactly what the result would be. Congress has had the tentative agreement language for a lot longer than the weekend. Everyone involved knows there weren’t the votes for a version going beyond the agreement; it’s why Sanders didn’t try to block the version that passed. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Pass a single bill with mandatory allowances for day-of callouts without punishment. The rail companies and reliant industry sectors would begin shutting down the instant such a single bill was on the horizon- in practice the Democrats would bear the brunt of the resulting fallout and would lose the ability to make other changes as a result. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Dec 2, 2022 |
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Dec 2, 2022 20:03
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Elephant Ambush posted:Not a shitpost. To people like Biden, antisemitism mostly means "opposed to apartheid imposed by the Israeli government" and he's making sure Israel knows he has their backs Do you have any proof that Biden doesn't care about anti semtisim and will only play lip service to Israel, or is this a "he is bad at one thing so he must be bad in everything" thing?
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Dec 2, 2022 20:03
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-Blackadder- posted:So if what happened was the anti-labor move, then what would have been the pro-labor move by Congress here? Like I said, they could have simply not intervened and allowed the strike to go ahead. You don't have to vote to do nothing. Another thing to keep in mind is that nothing has been averted here at all. Nothing has been resolved. The conditions of the railways will continue to degrade and the likelihood of catastrophic failure is just going to get worse. The only way to actually avert that is to back the workers.
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Dec 2, 2022 20:04
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