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LividLiquid posted:Did they? It was the episode where an alien from the Mycelial Network is making herself appear as Tilly's deceased childhood friend. They went to a school named after Musk and say it was an awful place, other than them meeting each other there.
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Jan 17, 2023 08:27
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Seemlar posted:It was the episode where an alien from the Mycelial Network is making herself appear as Tilly's deceased childhood friend. They went to a school named after Musk and say it was an awful place, other than them meeting each other there. The entire curriculum was just working at a Tesla factory and having to pay tuition for it.
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Jan 17, 2023 08:39
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EDIT: Misread something.
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Jan 17, 2023 08:47
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Seemlar posted:It was the episode where an alien from the Mycelial Network is making herself appear as Tilly's deceased childhood friend. They went to a school named after Musk and say it was an awful place, other than them meeting each other there. It wasn't named after Elon, it just smelled really bad.
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Jan 17, 2023 09:03
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nine-gear crow posted:So the USS Discovery NCC-1031-A is basically just one of those Silicon Valley bullshit "flat hierarchy" tech startups that's really just a glorified adult daycare center, the ones with the silly sides and nap times and juice boxes and the scrungy puzzle piece indoor playground floors with bright colours and letters and numbers on them. Everyone just shows up and does whatever job they feel like doing that day, except for Micheal--Michael Burnham is the boss, she's the only one who's above all the rest of you plebs, everyone else... eh, just try to make it LOOK like you got something done today, I'll be in my office crying in the corner in the fetal position I don't think it's any weirder than the NCC-1701 not having an Operations Officer or the NCC-1701-D giving space at the senior officer's conference table to a person who's not qualified for bridge command, in line for command, or even a department head (also I guess Starfleet abolished the job Chief Science Officer???). Or that DS9 had a senior enlisted as Chief Engineer, a job usually billeted to at least a Lieutenant Commander (which means that the freshest ensign out of the Academy technically outranked O'Brien).
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Jan 17, 2023 09:26
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Exactly. Hell, TNG initially explicitly didn't have a chief engineer! And when you start creating characters just because you think you need someone to fill a job, rather than because they fill a dramatic role, you end up with Harry Kim.
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Jan 17, 2023 09:45
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I’m actually going through Voyager episode-by-episode right now and I want to defend Harry Kim. He’s obviously a thin character but Wang usually does a decent job with what little he’s given and he’s generally more likable than I remember from my first and only watch-through years ago. Voyager’s worst character is hands-down Torres and it’s not even a real contest. Most episodes she’s only there to spout engineering technobabble and in the few spotlight episodes she gets she’s only ever allowed to be angry at someone or frustrated about something. The writing for her character is just consistently dogshit, and five seasons in I could not tell you one single interest the character has beyond Tom, the Maquis, or hating being a Klingon. I feel bad for Roxann Dawson because the fault definitely lies with the writers, but my god do I hate every single Torres scene that comes up.
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Jan 17, 2023 09:59
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gently caress it, here’s my Voyager character ranking as of not-quite-halfway-through-season-5: Good: Seven Doctor Tuvok Fine: Janeway Neelix Kim Tom Exists: Chakotay Kes Bad: Torres
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Jan 17, 2023 10:04
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Angry Salami posted:It wasn't named after Elon, it just smelled really bad. iirc she literally says she went to "elon musk elementary" or something like that (maybe it was middle school. i'm not watching discovery again to find out)
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Jan 17, 2023 10:14
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V-Men posted:I don't think it's any weirder than the NCC-1701 not having an Operations Officer or the NCC-1701-D giving space at the senior officer's conference table to a person who's not qualified for bridge command, in line for command, or even a department head (also I guess Starfleet abolished the job Chief Science Officer???). Or that DS9 had a senior enlisted as Chief Engineer, a job usually billeted to at least a Lieutenant Commander (which means that the freshest ensign out of the Academy technically outranked O'Brien). Who are you talking about on the D?
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Jan 17, 2023 10:40
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Okay so everyone dumps on Threshold but this alien cavemen virus episode of Enterprise is far worse, was kinda surprised it wasn't written by Braga
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Jan 17, 2023 11:12
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Alien caveman virus? No, you must be thinking of that season 1 SG-1 episode... No, wait... Oh riiiiight Enterprise did one of those as well.
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Jan 17, 2023 11:42
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Arivia posted:Who are you talking about on the D? Troi before she took the bridge officer's test. I get that she could have valuable insight given her empathic abilities and being a Starfleet brat and a diplomat's daughter she's probably got above average exposure to various species, but if we're talking about critiquing Star Trek shows based on adherence to a mythical org chart, she has no place with the ship's senior officers. But she's there because it's good for her to be there in the same way that it's fine that we'll never see Disco's chief engineering officer.
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Jan 17, 2023 13:25
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LividLiquid posted:Did they? MirrorMusk (2005)
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Jan 17, 2023 13:27
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V-Men posted:I don't think it's any weirder than the NCC-1701 not having an Operations Officer At least until Discovery retconned it, the idea of an Operations Officer wasn't even a part of the organisational structure of 23rd century Starfleet. At some point between TOS and TNG, the bridge duties of a single Science Officer were folded into the Operations Officer instead, with the idea that there would be numerous science officers of different specialties below decks reporting and filtering up through the operations officer. V-Men posted:\or the NCC-1701-D giving space at the senior officer's conference table to a person who's not qualified for bridge command, in line for command, or even a department head Staff officers who are there as advisers to a commander without being line officers or in the chain is perfectly normal. She was there to advise in her capacity as a xenosociology expert as the Enterprise-D encountered New Life and New Civilisations. Twincityhacker posted:Leave the writers room out of this - they put in zero Musk references. The other departments are more guilty, as the dialog mention was an adlib and the other reference was set design. And fortunately the set design - Tilly having gone to Musk High School - is perfectly retconnable as being a reference to Rebecca Musk, pioneering 22nd century geneticist. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Jan 17, 2023 |
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Jan 17, 2023 13:47
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MikeJF posted:At least until Discovery retconned it Fortunately Disco isn't good enough to have earned the right to retcon anything. quote:Staff officers who are there as advisers to a commander without being line officers or in the chain is perfectly normal. She was there to advise in her capacity as a xenosociology expert as the Enterprise-D encountered New Life and New Civilisations. And this is what happens when you go trolling through the older, better series for dubious evidence of 'errors' to back up the failures of contemporary nutrek, you start saying silly things like "what's the telepathic alien contact specialist doing on the senior staff?" Now, you wanna point out all the episodes where they blatantly waste her along the lines of Worf getting owned to make the big bad of the week appear legit, then we got something to talk about.
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Jan 17, 2023 14:01
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Wow, this scene was amazing. It just came up on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT8FpHgA-XY
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Jan 17, 2023 14:21
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I’m actually going through Voyager episode-by-episode right now and I want to defend Harry Kim. He’s obviously a thin character but Wang usually does a decent job with what little he’s given and he’s generally more likable than I remember from my first and only watch-through years ago. I'm surprised you find Torres worse than Chakotay since while Torres is only ever allowed to get mad at things, Chakotay is barely even allowed to have opinions besides "we should all listen to Janeway"
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Jan 17, 2023 14:51
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Chakotay and Kim are the very worst characters on the show because theyre just such blank slates. I'd actually like rank Neelix relatively highly because 'gross annoying guy everyone hates' is still much more of a personality than most of the cast
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Jan 17, 2023 15:00
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The Chairman posted:I'm surprised you find Torres worse than Chakotay since while Torres is only ever allowed to get mad at things, Chakotay is barely even allowed to have opinions besides "we should all listen to Janeway" "Janeway is the captain. We obey her without question." "Weren't you literally in a rebel military until a month ago? No conflict there?" "Akoochemoya." "Okay...?"
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Jan 17, 2023 15:06
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No Dignity posted:Chakotay and Kim are the very worst characters on the show because theyre just such blank slates. I'd actually like rank Neelix relatively highly because 'gross annoying guy everyone hates' is still much more of a personality than most of the cast He gets some pretty good episodes where you realize he's really just putting on his obsequious persona because he's terrified of being deemed unnecessary or unwanted and dumped into the middle of nowhere to fend for himself again, too, which is a depth a lot of the main cast never gets
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Jan 17, 2023 15:26
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Brawnfire posted:"Weren't you literally in a rebel military until a month ago? No conflict there?" I’m always reminded of the episode where Chakotay tells Nog the Kazon about how important his Starfleet uniform is to him. It’s a shame Voyager as a concept is done, because I think the current Trek storytelling could at least do Voyager properly, where the whole ‘stranded in the DQ with half a crew of terrorists and no Starfleet support’ could be done without forgetting the concept after episode 2. It’d probably suck for other reasons, but at least it wouldn’t immediately turn into TNG 2.0!
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Jan 17, 2023 15:29
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The one great Torres episode is kind of her own version of The Inner Light and then she actually gets to get mad at the end for a great reason.
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Jan 17, 2023 15:37
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Just here to say TNG's Legacy is a good bordering great episode and I think deserves some love. edit: Also, sadly Torres's character gets better when her and Paris get put together because it allows her to have a personality. the actors in Voyager and ENT get a bit screwed because the scripts are just so bland.
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Jan 17, 2023 15:38
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FlamingLiberal posted:The biggest problem with Disco is that they still focus the show on Burnham as the 'main character'… I watched season 1 when it was made available at no cost, and my biggest gripe is that the ostensible protagonist was just terrible. I thought Stamets and Saru were great, plus Tilly and bad-Michelle Yeoh were awesome, and the secretly-bad-guy Captain was solid, but holy poo poo Burnham was completely awful. Like, the worst character on the show. The kind of character you expect to be killed mid-season. She’s Star Trek Poochie.
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Jan 17, 2023 16:03
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Angry Salami posted:Exactly. Hell, TNG initially explicitly didn't have a chief engineer!
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Jan 17, 2023 17:29
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MikeJF posted:Staff officers who are there as advisers to a commander without being line officers or in the chain is perfectly normal. She was there to advise in her capacity as a xenosociology expert as the Enterprise-D encountered New Life and New Civilisations. I don't recall her ever being notable for being a xenosociology expert.
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Jan 17, 2023 17:37
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Does Discovery have, like a single premise? It seems to keep re-inventing itself and it feels like the only thing they keep is the cast and sets. Picard has the same problem, except the premise of Picard is "look, it's your old pal Picard!" so at least there the lack of a premise is excusable.
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Jan 17, 2023 17:45
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FISHMANPET posted:Does Discovery have, like a single premise? Mushroom-powered ship of fools
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Jan 17, 2023 17:50
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FISHMANPET posted:Does Discovery have, like a single premise? It seems to keep re-inventing itself and it feels like the only thing they keep is the cast and sets. Picard has the same problem, except the premise of Picard is "look, it's your old pal Picard!" so at least there the lack of a premise is excusable. Picard hasn't changed its premise between seasons so much as it's just tried to pull a mulligan and retool itself so it can take a new swing on the same premise just from a different angle than the last season so that it's a complete tabula rasa each year where nothing from the previous year sticks around or matters, so you can literally hop on to and off of it at any point and you'll have effectively seen the whole show. Star Trek: Picard is three different shows named Star Trek: Picard stapled onto each other, all trying to do the same thing in different ways. Star Trek: Discovery is like 8 different shows all at once.
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Jan 17, 2023 17:53
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Zaroff posted:I’m always reminded of the episode where Chakotay tells Nog the Kazon about how important his Starfleet uniform is to him. Battlestar Galactica was made in response to Voyager failing to follow through with its premise. While the latter seasons were not good, It had a very solid start.
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Jan 17, 2023 17:55
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Battlestar Galactica was made in response to Voyager failing to follow through with its premise. While the latter seasons were not good, It had a very solid start. Battlestar Galactica was Ron Moore going "gently caress you, Rick Berman, I'm going to make Voyager again and do it right this time!" and then still wound up cocking it all up in the end 
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Jan 17, 2023 17:57
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FISHMANPET posted:Does Discovery have, like a single premise? It seems to keep re-inventing itself and it feels like the only thing they keep is the cast and sets. Picard has the same problem, except the premise of Picard is "look, it's your old pal Picard!" so at least there the lack of a premise is excusable. Nope, the endless cycle of producers in the first few seasons meant that the producers kept picking up premises that they didn't care about from the previous lot, loving them up, and halfheartedly retooling into a new premise, over and over again.
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Jan 17, 2023 17:59
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nine-gear crow posted:Picard hasn't changed its premise between seasons so much as it's just tried to pull a mulligan and retool itself so it can take a new swing on the same premise just from a different angle than the last season so that it's a complete tabula rasa each year where nothing from the previous year sticks around or matters, so you can literally hop on to and off of it at any point and you'll have effectively seen the whole show. Star Trek: Picard is three different shows named Star Trek: Picard stapled onto each other, all trying to do the same thing in different ways. I'd also argue with Picard there is a vein of the thing/world you are living it is worth fighting for and needs people to fight for it for all the hopeful things but the writers a) are too scared to change anything or examine anything b) too enamored with grimdarkness c) have no experience.
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Jan 17, 2023 17:59
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Yeah, but when BSG was good, it was really, really good.
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Jan 17, 2023 18:11
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nine-gear crow posted:Battlestar Galactica was Ron Moore going "gently caress you, Rick Berman, I'm going to make Voyager again and do it right this time!" and then still wound up cocking it all up in the end The first two and half seasons were just really damned good. Part 2 of Season 3 was mostly kind of meh. Season 4 was depressing and uneven, though Roslyn leading a counter-coup against Gaeta and Zarek from a loving Cylon base star was pretty "Holy Shitballs!" But yeah, the end with "the Cylon God is the actual Judeo-Christian God and is real" kind of jumped the shark while nuking the fridge.
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Jan 17, 2023 18:13
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The Chairman posted:I'm surprised you find Torres worse than Chakotay since while Torres is only ever allowed to get mad at things, Chakotay is barely even allowed to have opinions besides "we should all listen to Janeway" Chakotay is basically just wallpaper, so it’s easy to forget he even exists in most episodes. 90% of the time it’s almost to the point where he’s on the same level of character depth as the loving computer. If it wasn’t for the offensive fake mystical Native American aspects, I think people would genuinely struggle to even remember his name. No Dignity posted:Chakotay and Kim are the very worst characters on the show because theyre just such blank slates. I'd actually like rank Neelix relatively highly because 'gross annoying guy everyone hates' is still much more of a personality than most of the cast Hot take, but I’d say Neelix is a genuinely fun character when he isn’t anywhere near Kes or that kid with the bad forehead makeup because he fills the same role on Voyager as Lwaxana; civilian outsider who makes stuffy Starfleet types uncomfortable.
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Jan 17, 2023 18:17
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Big Mean Jerk posted:If it wasn’t for the offensive fake mystical Native American aspects, I think people would genuinely struggle to even remember his name. I wonder how Voyager would have turned out if we got the Canadian version where Genevieve Bujold stuck around as Janeway BUT we also got Tom Jackson as Chakotay.
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Jan 17, 2023 18:20
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Everyone posted:But yeah, the end with "the Cylon God is the actual Judeo-Christian God and is real" kind of jumped the shark while nuking the fridge. It's clear it was planned to be that from the start, but Ron Moore's big mistake was seriously misreading the room (and by room I mean average sci-fi audience) on what kind of concepts they'd find an acceptable conclusion.
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Jan 17, 2023 18:20
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Making God real was fine imo and worked with what we'd seen all through the show from the Head characters, the fatal mistake was just Lee's loving Awesome Plan
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Jan 17, 2023 18:23
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