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Who's your 2022 MVP? This poll is closed. |
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| Shohei Ohtani |
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50 | 59.52% |
| Aaron Judge |
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19 | 22.62% |
| Hey, the national league has an MVP too you know! |
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15 | 17.86% |
| Total: | 84 votes | ||
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Idk about Yelich but Bellinger’s fall has some pretty clear signs of physical issues. Everyone remembers the dislocated shoulder in gm7 of the 2020 NLCS but they all forget the broken leg at the start of 2021 which cost him nearly 2 months. His Max EV took a hit in 2021 and has yet to recover.
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Jan 18, 2023 22:57
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Who are some other guys who went from MVP-caliber to dog poo poo in the course of one or two seasons? It's just weird that it happened to the two guys who were vying for the MVP spot and even had Dan and Dave style ads about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKJkfE1M9wA Of course Dan and Dave also stunk it up in the 92 olympics (one of them missed the games entirely because he couldn't pole vault good) so perhaps we should've seen that as an omen. zoux fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jan 18, 2023 |
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Jan 18, 2023 23:01
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zoux posted:Who are some other guys who went from MVP-caliber to dog poo poo in the course of one or two seasons? It's just weird that it happened to the two guys who were vying for the MVP spot and even had Dan and Dave style ads about it Ryan Howard really fell off a cliff too. folks always fall off after their peak (hence it being a peak), and some have steeper downslopes than others, but if you've gotten to the point where everyone is looking at you as MVP-caliber (and slapping you on the cover of Madden et al), everyone is really going to notice when you're no longer that good.
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Jan 18, 2023 23:11
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Anthony Rendon was 3rd in MVP voting in 2019 and replacement level in 2021
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Jan 18, 2023 23:12
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zoux posted:Who are some other guys who went from MVP-caliber to dog poo poo in the course of one or two seasons? Chris Davis never won an MVP, but after he hit 53 dingers in 2013 and 47 in 2015, he nosedived fast Imagine paying 23 mil for -3.3 WAR
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Jan 18, 2023 23:14
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Paracaidas posted:I choose to believe the Tatis suspension is what enabled Franmil to make the team, so really it's all worth it. James Wood? Sounds like Nats twitter is about to get really lovely  Mr. Fix It posted:Ryan Howard really fell off a cliff too. folks always fall off after their peak (hence it being a peak), and some have steeper downslopes than others, but if you've gotten to the point where everyone is looking at you as MVP-caliber (and slapping you on the cover of Madden et al), everyone is really going to notice when you're no longer that good. Howard pretty clearly never recovered from tearing his ACL if you look at his stats before and after
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Jan 18, 2023 23:27
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Mantle made the HoF without a freakin' ACL, ya gotta rub some dirt on it lmao the Marlins. Surprised the Os are that high but I guess they wanna get on the band wagon before it's a band wagon zoux fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Jan 18, 2023 |
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Jan 18, 2023 23:39
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:Some guys gradually decline and others just hit a wall. Some guys no longer get tipped off on what pitch is coming next.
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Jan 19, 2023 00:10
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In this scenario was Cody Bellinger the only Dodger hitter getting signs in 2019 or are the rest just impervious to it?
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Jan 19, 2023 00:12
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All the rest have Altuvesque integrity
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Jan 19, 2023 00:17
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Yelich had a bad kneecap injury IIRC and never got it back after.
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Jan 19, 2023 00:29
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bawfuls posted:In this scenario was Cody Bellinger the only Dodger hitter getting signs in 2019 or are the rest just impervious to it? Talking about Yelich. Bellinger seems to be a swing issue that is probably due to injuries.
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Jan 19, 2023 00:31
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Yelich modified his swing to get a lot more lift, funnily enough by his own admission with the help of Bonds who the Marlins otherwise were on record as being the worst hitting coach they'd ever seen. As far back as the statcast era has existed Yelich has always been a ~90th percentile exit velo guy or better, even these last two years where he's been bad he's still hitting the hell out of the ball. The "problem" seems to be that his back issues have gotten worse and to compensate he's flattened his swing, so now he's back to blistering balls into the dirt instead of the stands.
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Jan 19, 2023 00:38
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Niwrad posted:Talking about Yelich. Bellinger seems to be a swing issue that is probably due to injuries. Yelich's never been the same after getting hurt, too.
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Jan 19, 2023 00:38
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zoux posted:lmao the Marlins. Surprised the Os are that high but I guess they wanna get on the band wagon before it's a band wagon The Marlins subreddit moved this offseason, according to the comments. They'd still be dead last but it's a lot closer. In other funny news https://twitter.com/Twins/status/1615848334220034048 I'm sure it's not like an awful signing or anything but the way they hype it up is still funny
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Jan 19, 2023 00:48
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zoux posted:Mantle made the HoF without a freakin' ACL, ya gotta rub some dirt on it This chart implies that the Marlins have the best fanbase in baseball
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Jan 19, 2023 01:45
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Who's in the BA top 100? More importantly to my interests, who are the Mets in the top 100?
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Jan 19, 2023 03:50
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I saw a yt showing how bellingers led injuries robbed his power which was pretty compelling
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Jan 19, 2023 04:11
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Yelich and Bellinger are great examples of the limits of recovery. I feel like a lot of fans think that players of any sport can always come back 100% with the right rehab but even smaller injuries like a high ankle sprain can permanently effect flexibility and strength of the joint.
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Jan 19, 2023 07:32
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habeasdorkus posted:Who's in the BA top 100? C Francisco Alvarez: No. 9 RHP Kodai Senga: No. 16 3B Brett Baty: No. 33 C Kevin Parada: No. 50 OF Alex Ramirez: No. 92 SS Jett Williams: No. 98 Feels a little odd for Senga to be considered a prospect, but otherwise that's a very fine showing for their farm system.
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Jan 19, 2023 09:09
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Atlanta signs Kevin Pillar to a minor league deal. His previous interactions with the Braves include calling Jason Motte the bad f-word after getting quick-pitched in 2017 and taking a pitch to the face in 2021.
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Jan 19, 2023 15:43
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zoux posted:Who are some other guys who went from MVP-caliber to dog poo poo in the course of one or two seasons? It's just weird that it happened to the two guys who were vying for the MVP spot and even had Dan and Dave style ads about it Dan and Dave were 30 years ago and drat you for making me feel old. Also lol Reebok for one of the biggest ad flops of all time.
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Jan 19, 2023 16:37
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:Dan and Dave were 30 years ago and drat you for making me feel old. They did a 30-for-30 about it!
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Jan 19, 2023 16:44
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zoux posted:Who are some other guys who went from MVP-caliber to dog poo poo in the course of one or two seasons? Chris Davis comes to mind
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Jan 19, 2023 17:03
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Barry Bluejeans posted:Feels a little odd for Senga to be considered a prospect, but otherwise that's a very fine showing for their farm system. Meanwhile the Cubs have the grand total of 3, which seems less than ideal after 4 years missing the post season and burning down the house. To be fair, 2 of the 3 were from teardown trades #25 PCA, #91 Alcantara, with Davis coming in at 84, but then you also have to look at the results of poo poo like the Darvish Even when guys like Ben Leeper or Matt Mervis pop off, there's still no room at the inn due to the seemingly neverending river of mediocre reclamation projects flowing in, then (not) soon (enough) out of Wrigley so we get to enjoy the Robert Gsellman/Zach McKinstry/Erich Uelmen/Luke Farrell/Eric Hosmer experience instead letting young guys get acclimated, or just seeing what they have. Someone like Dakota Mekkes may be trash, but he was on the rise before the lost 2020 season- can you tell me it's a better idea to give Daniel loving Norris innings in the middle of a dogshit season instead of letting your MLB coaches see if he can be something? Even a seeming success story like Christopher Morel was more a Bob Ross style happy accident- he was supposed to be a short term fill in because the plan was to send Morel back to get Michael Hermosillo and Rafael Ortega as many at-bats as possible. Luckily for Morel he went white hot for a couple of weeks and got to ride out the season spreading joy and love wherever he went. Unless lovely middle infielders with positional flexibility and 30 year old AAAA relievers (Jed totally has a type) are the new market inefficiency I have no idea what the Cubs plan is going forward aside from more dumpster diving and I'm not sure they do either.
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Jan 19, 2023 17:15
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Andruw Jones fell off a cliff but I'm pretty sure that was injury related
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Jan 19, 2023 20:26
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GoatSeeGuy posted:Meanwhile the Cubs have the grand total of 3, which seems less than ideal after 4 years missing the post season and burning down the house. Aren't you fancy with your three top 100 prospects. The Royals are terrible and only have one in the top 100. (Of course a lot of that is a lot of guys debuted last year. Still, it's suboptimal for a team that tries to mostly build through the draft). Thanks GMDM. Your legacy of terrible drafts lives on.
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Jan 19, 2023 20:39
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GoatSeeGuy posted:Meanwhile the Cubs have the grand total of 3, which seems less than ideal after 4 years missing the post season and burning down the house. Hey, come on. We got swept by the Marlins in 2020.
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Jan 19, 2023 20:40
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The Cubs farm situation is kinda weird in that the farm overall is pretty highly rated by (#6 per Fangraphs IIRC) but it lacks high impact super start talent. Rather the Cubs have way more "yeah he'll be a perfectly fine big league contributor" guys than most farms. You can already kinda see this hitting the majors on the pitching side, where the Cubs haven't really developed an ace (Steele popped off for a couple months but I'm not ready to declare him here yet) but they have Steele, Thompson, Alzolay, Wesneski, Assad, Alzolay, and Sampson who are all perfectly serviceable MOR/BOR types, with Kilian and Wicks fast approaching to join the mix. The lack of superstar talent is annoying though, and it's not helped by the fact that it's clear the Cubs aren't interested in spending to try and land one in FA. Swanson is the closest we've come in a while and I'd say he's more good-to-great than perennial AS. PCA is really the only guy even remotely close to the show with huge upside, a lot of scouts still seem to think Hernandez is the next coming of Jesus but he's 19 and hasn't played above rookie ball yet so who knows what'll happen there.
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Jan 19, 2023 20:40
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https://twitter.com/MLBONFOX/status/1616180944116846592
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Jan 19, 2023 22:10
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What's the book on him, why did he go from lights out to non-tendered? I know he had some beef with the Yanks front office but did he lose velo or something
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Jan 19, 2023 22:16
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zoux posted:What's the book on him, why did he go from lights out to non-tendered? I know he had some beef with the Yanks front office but did he lose velo or something He hasn't been lights-out for a while. Yeah, he's lost velo, but he was an all-stuff 2-pitch pitcher with awful command. Now he's a some-stuff 2-pitch pitcher with awful command.
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Jan 19, 2023 22:20
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His fastball has been in steady decline since 2016 so presumably that a big part of it
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Jan 19, 2023 22:20
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zoux posted:What's the book on him, why did he go from lights out to non-tendered? I know he had some beef with the Yanks front office but did he lose velo or something He's a piece of poo poo who loves giving up big homers in the playoffs and not showing up for team events if he's not the closer.
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Jan 19, 2023 22:23
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Yeah. His fastball is down so he's overthrowing it and has no real control. Then he's over relying on his slider and hitters wait for that. Its been a steady decline for years now. For awhile it was "he gets better when the weather warms up" and then it was "watch to see if he has control". But last year he just didn't have much of anything left and there was no "ok, he's turned the corner" moment like there had been for the last few years. Maybe he could still be lights out if he's rested/healthy/whatever. But its been steady and he's still an rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 19, 2023 22:25
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when he was throwing 103 he didn't really need much command because hitters basically had to start swinging before they could see where the ball was going this stops working when you're only sitting at 98
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Jan 19, 2023 22:36
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mcmagic posted:He's a piece of poo poo who loves giving up big homers in the playoffs Lol he sure does
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Jan 19, 2023 22:43
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Julio Cruz posted:when he was throwing 103 he didn't really need much command because hitters basically had to start swinging before they could see where the ball was going He was never pinpoint but now he's genuinely overthrowing and is often nowhere near the plate. He's not challenging guys up and in anymore. He's just going all Wild Thing half the time and walking the bases loaded.
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Jan 19, 2023 22:44
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Joe Maddon personally destroyed Chapman's arm and I'm okay with it
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Jan 19, 2023 22:48
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Sydin posted:The Cubs farm situation is kinda weird in that the farm overall is pretty highly rated by (#6 per Fangraphs IIRC) but it lacks high impact super start talent. Rather the Cubs have way more "yeah he'll be a perfectly fine big league contributor" guys than most farms. You can already kinda see this hitting the majors on the pitching side, where the Cubs haven't really developed an ace (Steele popped off for a couple months but I'm not ready to declare him here yet) but they have Steele, Thompson, Alzolay, Wesneski, Assad, Alzolay, and Sampson who are all perfectly serviceable MOR/BOR types, with Kilian and Wicks fast approaching to join the mix. They are very deep in good, not great pitching prospects. I don't necessarily think that's bad considering how much pitching prospects vary as they develop. Hope being that a couple guys will turn into frontline starters and others can provide depth. Their problem of course is they have never been able to develop pitching. It's clear they just don't see themselves as a big market team. Jed has talked a great deal about his admiration for both Cleveland and Tampa. I'm guessing they'd like to be a slightly higher-budget version of the Guardians. Develop players in-house and hope your weak division gets you in the playoffs. The difference is that both Tampa and Cleveland have much better front offices and development systems. Jed has been a pretty bad GM and should have been let go by now.
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Jan 19, 2023 23:09
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