Middle East Thread: Clarissa Explains the Fall

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread: Clarissa Explains the Fall

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Saladman posted:

A friend of mine is from Gaziantep, although her immediate family all now lives in Istanbul. She replied just now that all her extended family is safe but that they are unable to get out of the city and get to Istanbul, and that everyone is trying to leave and there's no reliable transportation out.

Same deal with my extended in laws there

there's also no heat, gas, etc; I imagine little gasoline as well.

# ? Feb 8, 2023 21:53

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# ? May 23, 2024 19:57

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

This is an interesting article on an ag news website highlighting some of the rural impacts on people and how it is affecting agricultural production, which is something to consider seriously when basic foodstuffs accounted for the largest price increase last year.
Earthquake caused devastation in rural areas - 08 February 2023

deepl posted:

. . .
On the third day of the earthquake, there are still places that have not been reached. In rural areas and villages, citizens are trying to dig out their relatives under the rubble with their own means.

As in densely populated urban centers, there is a great destruction in rural areas and villages. Especially in villages on or near the fault line, there is literally no stone left on stone. In villages far from the fault line, the situation is much better. In villages far from the fault line, there are a few houses that were not damaged at all.

Especially in villages in Hatay, Kahramanmaraş, Adıyaman and Gaziantep, the damage is much greater. The villages of Islahiye and Nurdağı in Gaziantep are experiencing a disaster. According to what I have heard from people living in or traveling to the villages, the situation is really dire.

It is much more difficult to reach the villages

First of all, the population density in the villages is very low. Those who stay in the villages are usually elderly. It is very difficult for them to help those trapped under the rubble. It was very difficult to reach the villages in the first two days. People living in cities, towns and districts had great difficulty in reaching their relatives in the villages. Roads were closed due to the earthquake and adverse weather conditions. There were big problems in reaching the villages. There are still closed village roads. Those who reached the villages say that the view they saw was horrible.

There are villages that have been leveled

Osman T�rkman, who was successfully serving as the President of Gaziantep Sheep and Goat Breeding Association until recently, was dismissed two weeks ago on January 22nd and a trustee was appointed in his place, has been traveling from village to village since the first hours of the earthquake. He has been making efforts to deliver aid to the villages.

Osman T�rkman, with whom I spoke several times by phone, summarized the situation in the villages of Gaziantep Nurdağı, Islahiye and Şehitkamil as follows: "As you can imagine, there is a huge destruction in the countryside and villages. People have lost their lives and property. I am in a village right now. They are trying to do something with their own means. I am in Şehitkamil Atalar Village. There are 62 deaths in this village. There are 22 deaths in Nurdağı Kartal Village. In İkizkuyu, there is one house left from 7-8 houses and there are 12-13 deaths. These are all estimated numbers. Because there are people under the rubble. Sak�ag�z� Village is in a region between Gaziantep and Nurdağı. Settlements and houses have all been destroyed. There is a huge destruction. Cemeteries are now working on a 24-hour basis.

"It is as if the earthquake lifted the villages from their places and then lowered them again"

People are trying to save their animals, their lives with their own means. We call our producer friends who are still standing and ask them to take care of their animals. There are people whose animals are under the rubble. The news coming from Gaziantep, Hatay, Kahramanmaraş, Adıyaman shows how severe the situation is. This disaster is being responded to in a very large area. The villages of Islahiye and Nurdağı are really bad. It is as if the earthquake has lifted the villages and brought them down again. I look to my left and right and the houses are all destroyed.

There is a need for tents, food and food

We see that more people have come here compared to the first day, that is, on the third day of the earthquake, our initiative citizens have come here for help. In the villages, everyone is trying to help each other. The people here primarily need tents, food and food for themselves and their animals.

Since villages are small family businesses, people have stables under their houses. People live on top and animals live underneath. When the houses collapse, the stables also collapse. There is no place for both people and animals to stay. There is feed in the house, but they cannot go in and buy it. Therefore, they cannot feed their animals. Many of them have abandoned their animals. Their siblings, spouses, children are dead, they don't have time to think about their animals."

Stables, feed stores, milking parlors destroyed

I also met with Kamil �zcan, Chairman of the Board of Directors of the Central Union of Cattle Breeders of Turkey, L�tfi Dana Haliloğlu, President of Hatay Union, and Ahmet Şimşek, President of Gaziantep Union. Of course, human life comes first. It is very important to pull even one person out of the rubble alive. The production of food necessary for human life is also important.

For those living in rural areas, their livestock, which is a source of livelihood, is as important as their own lives. There are very important problems due to the earthquake. There are animals trapped under the rubble because the barns collapsed. There are animals that are left outside without owners or waiting without food and water because their owners cannot take care of them. Feed stores, silos, milking parlors were destroyed. There is no electricity, no water. Animals cannot be milked. Some producers' animals have been bought and fed by breeders in nearby provinces. But the problem is much bigger. The state must reach the villages and take important steps and measures for farmers.

A very big organized effort is needed. Because those who are engaged in animal husbandry and agriculture here are really in trouble. Village roads are closed in some places and villages are already inaccessible. Those who have relatives are trying to support them by reaching the village somehow. In most of the villages, the phone does not work. Electricity is cut off.

In many places, milking parlors are not working. Because there is no water, the electricity is cut off. Animals are being transported to Kayseri, Amasya and other places. However, the roads are closed. Even people in the village go elsewhere to buy bread. "There is no bread," they complain.

There are also those who have taken refuge in unharmed villages

I also talked to Dr. Murat Salih, a farmer in Kilis. He said that there was almost no damage in the villages far from the fault line in Kilis, and even those whose houses were destroyed or damaged in the city went to the villages. Stating that those who migrated from the villages to Kilis and Gaziantep center over the years returned to their villages after the earthquake because they could not enter their houses, Salih said, "They took many of their neighbors who had nowhere to go to the village with them. Many villages have the same practice. It is very nice to see that this solidarity has not been lost."

Murat Salih said that the earthquake caused great damage in the villages of Musabeyli district of Kilis and that the situation in these villages was very bad.

# ? Feb 9, 2023 00:09

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

https://twitter.com/70sbachchan/status/1623339885246521344?s=46&t=UzLh695V-rEScRCq3ndvZQ

Decent thread on how government/commercial mismanagement helped make the earthquake that much deadlier.

# ? Feb 10, 2023 14:55

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

Darth Walrus posted:

https://twitter.com/70sbachchan/status/1623339885246521344?s=46&t=UzLh695V-rEScRCq3ndvZQ

Decent thread on how government/commercial mismanagement helped make the earthquake that much deadlier.

Is this guy credible?

# ? Feb 14, 2023 12:54

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Charlz Guybon posted:

Is this guy credible?

The professor is; that guy and the Economist maybe not idk. Here's his account
https://twitter.com/ovgunaercan/status/1625510528758980612

mawarannahr fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Feb 14, 2023

# ? Feb 14, 2023 17:13

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

One guesstimate I heard was in the 80 thousand dead ballpark. But it's already at a scale of human suffering that one can't really comprehend, so it might as well be over twice that because I can't fathom it. :gonk:

# ? Feb 14, 2023 17:29

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

In a sane world I can't see how Erdogan and his cronies could survive this without getting indicted for causing the deaths through their corruption... But this isn't a sane reality.

# ? Feb 14, 2023 17:38

Zudgemud: Mar 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

steinrokkan posted:

In a sane world I can't see how Erdogan and his cronies could survive this without getting indicted for causing the deaths through their corruption... But this isn't a sane reality.

If all parties have been doing it where they have power nobody has an edge om him. Unless that small city in Hatay that had no buildings collapse somehow has a mayor with massive charisma and funding.

# ? Feb 14, 2023 20:05

Boris Galerkin: Dec 17, 2011; I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

I saw some reports about how contractors were getting arrested, one being ambushed at an airport even.

Couldn�t he just say �look I�m arresting the people who did this�?

# ? Feb 14, 2023 20:09

ChaseSP: Mar 25, 2013

The wonderful thing about everyone being corrupt is the person in charge can easily make examples of anyone, including political opponents because they probably ARE corrupt and involved in some manner to the issue at hand.

# ? Feb 14, 2023 20:42

Somaen: Nov 19, 2007; by vyelkin

There's a telegram message I saw saying that one city survived fully intact because a mayor was enforcing construction laws on all buildings and development companies. Waiting to see it in a reliable source but kudos to that guy if true

# ? Feb 14, 2023 20:49

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Boris Galerkin posted:

I saw some reports about how contractors were getting arrested, one being ambushed at an airport even.

Couldn�t he just say �look I�m arresting the people who did this�?

Here's a NYT story covering that a tiny bit:
As Anger Swells Over Quake, Turkey Detains Building Contractors

quote:

## As the death toll in Turkey and Syria passed 28,000, Ankara was coming under growing criticism for its slow response and tolerance of shoddy construction.

Published�Feb. 11, 2023 Updated�Feb. 12, 2023

A rescuer survived being buried under falling debris, as crews across Turkey worked to save people, including young children, trapped in buildings that collapsed in a devastating earthquake.Emin Ozmen for The New York Times

ADIYAMAN, Turkey � Turkish officials on Saturday began detaining dozens of contractors they blamed for some of the building collapses in Monday�s devastating earthquake, as anger swelled over the government�s slow rescue effort and the death toll in the country surpassed 24,000.

The government issued arrest warrants for more than 100 people across the 10 provinces affected by the quake, the state-run Anadolu News Agency reported on Saturday, as the Turkish Justice Ministry ordered officials in those provinces to set up �Earthquake Crimes Investigation Units.� It also directed them to appoint prosecutors to bring criminal charges against all the �constructors and those responsible� for the collapse of buildings that failed to meet existing codes, which had been put in place after a similar disaster in 1999.

At least four people were arrested on Saturday. The legal actions constituted the first steps by the Turkish state toward identifying and punishing people who may have contributed to the deaths of their fellow citizens in the quake. Across the earthquake zone, residents expressed outrage at what they contended were corrupt builders who cut corners to fatten their profits and the government�s granting of �amnesties� to builders who put up apartment complexes that failed to meet the new codes.

In the Saraykint neighborhood of Antakya, residents pointed to shoddy workmanship in a newly built luxury building of 14 floors, with some 90 apartments, that had collapsed on itself.

�The concrete is like sand,� said one man who declined to give his name, standing near the building as he watched rescuers work. �It was built too quickly.�

Among those detained on Saturday was Mehmet Ertan Akay, the builder of a collapsed complex in the hard-hit city of Gaziantep, who was charged with involuntary manslaughter and violation of public construction law, a Turkish news agency reported. The Gaziantep prosecutor�s office said it had issued the detention order after inspecting the evidence collected from the rubble of the complex he had built.

Mehmet Yasar Coskun, the constructor of a 12-story building in Hatay Province with 250 apartments that was completely destroyed, was detained on Friday at an Istanbul airport while trying to board a flight to Montenegro. Dozens of people are thought to have died when the building collapsed.�Mr. Coskun told prosecutors his building had been properly licensed and audited by local and state authorities, according to the Anadolu News Agency, and his lawyer suggested the main reason he had been detained was mounting public anger.

Two builders of a collapsed 14-story building in Adana, who reportedly fled Turkey immediately after the quake, were detained in Northern Cyprus, according to the Turkish-controlled Northern Cyprus administration.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey�s president, visiting Diyarbakir Province on Saturday, defended the government�s response to the earthquake, which has been criticized as slow and haphazard. Around the country, residents have waited impatiently for government help to find their loved ones in the rubble, keep their families warm and ensure they get enough to eat, in a country where inflation passed 80 percent last year.

On Saturday, Mr. Erdogan said this quake was �three times bigger and more destructive than the 1999 quake, the greatest disaster in our country�s recent memory.� While acknowledging that official response has been slow, he said that the country was not prepared for an earthquake of this size.

Mr. Erdogan, who faces a�tough election battle in May, called for unity, saying: �Unfortunately some political parties, NGOs, still seek to attack immorally, impudently.� He vowed retribution on looters and said that all Turkish universities would switch to online learning so that survivors could live for now in state-run dormitories.

While Turkey has building codes put in place after the 1999 quake, residents said that they were often not applied because contractors can earn more money when they cut corners: mixing the concrete and using cheaper metal bars to gird pillars, among other things.

Mesut Koparal, a car dealer whose mother was killed in the quake, was furious at the state for not doing more to ensure buildings were constructed well.

�The state is responsible,� he said. �If you have a small amount of debt, the state chases you and finds you, but they don�t check the buildings.�

�I�m not an engineer, I�m not a contractor,� he added. �How would I know?�

His neighbor, Mehmet Celik, 38, a middle-school teacher, said the big problem was so-called amnesties for buildings that were not built according to code, which the government occasionally issues to effectively legalize such buildings. It�s good politics, because no one wants a building or apartment they had paid for to be condemned, he said. But then the building is vulnerable when a quake hits.

In the city of Adiyaman, the main thoroughfare felt like a construction site that sprawls out, block after block after block. But instead of putting up buildings, crews of workers, cranes, bulldozers and excavators were digging through the rubble of those that have collapsed.

That's the salient point to your post but I haven't the heart to delete the rest:

quote:

Residents said rescue crews and aid were initially slow to arrive after Monday�s powerful earthquake, which has also killed nearly 4,000 people in neighboring Syria. The crews now pack the main roadway.

Rescue workers, miners and uniformed soldiers stand atop piles of rubble and rest on the grassy median, warming themselves with wood fires that choke the air with smoke, and sipping lentil soup made in volunteer kitchens.

Adiyaman was badly damaged, with a number of buildings on each block along its main street now collapsed. Many others have cracked windows and walls, and none appear to have any inhabitants.

Prepared food, diapers and baby formula were being handed out at various distribution points. In an empty dirt lot, volunteers set up an open-air pharmacy to hear residents� complaints and look at their medical records before fetching the proper pills or syrups from folding tables behind them.

At a medical tent next door, doctors offered free consultations to anyone who walked in. The most common complaints were wounds from shattered glass or falling bricks, respiratory illnesses aggravated by the cold weather and diarrhea from the lack of potable water for the droves of homeless people, said Dr. Firat Erkmen, the head of a medical association in Sanliurfa that sent a delegation of volunteers.

A million or more people in the affected region are thought to be without shelter in a cold winter, U.N. officials said, as local and foreign aid workers pushed to bring food, clean water and temporary housing to the affected areas, especially in northwest Syria, which has been largely cut off from outside aid because of political obstacles stemming from a 12-year civil war.

Dalal Masri, 55, from Aleppo, Syria, sat with her family inside their temporary new home, a former car wash, in Antakya, Turkey, on Friday.Emily Garthwaite for The New York Times

The earthquake left widespread destruction across southeastern Turkey and northern Syria, both in the last opposition-held territory in Syria�s northwest and in swaths of government-held territory, particularly Aleppo.

Humanitarian aid has been politicized for a long time in a divided Syria, with President Bashar al-Assad insisting that it be funneled through the central government, while most Western aid agencies want to deliver aid directly to the country�s northwest, which is held by Turkish-backed opposition forces.

Only one border crossing from Turkey into northwest Syria, Bab al-Hawa, has been authorized for aid deliveries by the United Nations Security Council, where Russia, which supports Mr. al-Assad, has refused to allow other crossing points to function. There were reports that the Syrian Red Crescent received permission to send 14 trucks of aid through the crossing to Idlib, accompanied by U.N. officials, but much more aid is needed.

The Syrian death toll is expected to grow considerably in the next few days, as a disorganized rescue effort gets into higher gear.

�Emergency response must not be politicized,� said Geir O. Pedersen, the U.N. special envoy for Syria, speaking after a meeting of a humanitarian task force in Geneva. �Our immediate asks are two: access and resources,� he added.

While aid has been pouring into Turkey, the situation in Syria is more chaotic and dire. Mr. Pedersen is only one of a number of U.N. officials expected to visit the country. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director of the World Health Organization, traveled on Saturday to Aleppo, and the U.N. aid chief, Martin Griffiths, is in Turkey and hoping to go to Syria, where Mr. al-Assad has been touring areas of devastation and blaming the West for shunning his government.

One Syrian volunteer, Mohamed al-Shibli, said on Saturday that the Syrian White Helmets rescue group was now recovering only the dead. �Yesterday and today we haven�t found any cases alive,� he said.

Rescue operations continued in Turkey, where 67 people had been pulled alive from the rubble in the past 24 hours, Vice President Fuat Oktay told reporters overnight. He said that about 80,000 people were being treated in hospitals, while 1.05 million left homeless by the quakes huddled in temporary shelters.

Turkey�s Disaster and Emergency Management Authority said on Saturday that nearly 93,000 survivors had been evacuated from the quake zone.

While Turkish officials have encouraged families to evacuate, many have been stymied. The Goclu family had heard about a bus to evacuate people, but when they arrived to take it, it had been canceled, Melek Goclu said. Her husband had booked plane tickets, but they had been canceled, too.

�We just want to leave,� she said, �but we can�t find a way.�

# ? Feb 14, 2023 20:51

WoodrowSkillson: Feb 24, 2005; *Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

ChaseSP posted:

The wonderful thing about everyone being corrupt is the person in charge can easily make examples of anyone, including political opponents because they probably ARE corrupt and involved in some manner to the issue at hand.

dictatorships, monarchies, etc are all fantastic until they are not

# ? Feb 14, 2023 20:53

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

steinrokkan posted:

In a sane world I can't see how Erdogan and his cronies could survive this without getting indicted for causing the deaths through their corruption... But this isn't a sane reality.

I don't think it is sane reality you're talking about, it mostly sounds naive, no offence intended. I haven't read about it but I'd think Erdogan and his cronies would get money for it but only after it has been laundered as political donations or what have you. Typically building codes are things enforced (or not) on a municipal level so I'd think that's where the lions share of the blame lies. That Erdogan could have cracked down on the corruption or indeed has benefited from it is still pretty abstract compared to a disaster of this magnitude. I wouldn't think it would hurt him much, in the end. Natural disasters tend to pull countries together more than separate them.

That being said Turkey is probably having elections within a few months. If the date gets pushed back because of the quake I'd think that'd be a sign Erdogan feels vulnerable over the fallout.

# ? Feb 15, 2023 00:34

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Count Roland posted:

I don't think it is sane reality you're talking about, it mostly sounds naive, no offence intended. I haven't read about it but I'd think Erdogan and his cronies would get money for it but only after it has been laundered as political donations or what have you. Typically building codes are things enforced (or not) on a municipal level so I'd think that's where the lions share of the blame lies. That Erdogan could have cracked down on the corruption or indeed has benefited from it is still pretty abstract compared to a disaster of this magnitude. I wouldn't think it would hurt him much, in the end. Natural disasters tend to pull countries together more than separate them.

That being said Turkey is probably having elections within a few months. If the date gets pushed back because of the quake I'd think that'd be a sign Erdogan feels vulnerable over the fallout.

It seems like Erdo personally was promoting the policy of relaxing building standards though so he could claim he solved housing:

quote:

Erdoğan is seen in the videos speaking on the campaign trail in 2019, boasting of having removed building standards-related headaches for hundreds of thousands of citizens with his amnesty policy.

One stop was in Kahramanmaraş, the recent earthquake's epicenter. There, in 2019, he said: "We have solved the problems of 144,556 Kahramanmaraş citizens with the amnesty," according to local outlet Duvar English.

Erdoğan made similar boasts in campaign stops in the cities of Hatay and Malatya, both also now ravaged by the earthquake, Duvar reported.

In Hatay, he said: "We have solved the problems of 205,000 citizens of Hatay with zoning peace," per a translation by NPR.

Zoning peace is another name for the Turkish amnesty policy which, on payment of a fine, gives retroactive permits to structures built without planning permission, or not up to code. Those standards include fire protection and seismic standards, per Duvar.

https://news.yahoo.com/resurfaced-videos-2019-shows-turkish-131708414.html

# ? Feb 15, 2023 09:41

Zudgemud: Mar 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

mobby_6kl posted:

It seems like Erdo personally was promoting the policy of relaxing building standards though so he could claim he solved housing:

https://news.yahoo.com/resurfaced-videos-2019-shows-turkish-131708414.html

Yeah that is gonna bite him in the rear end, especially in that region.

# ? Feb 15, 2023 11:07

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Charlz Guybon posted:

Is this guy credible?

The official death toll has risen to 50000 (UN estimate) by now, so even if not, it's certainly one terrifyingly bad earthquake.

# ? Feb 15, 2023 12:46

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Zudgemud posted:

Yeah that is gonna bite him in the rear end, especially in that region.

I'd like to see ol Erdogun wriggle his way out of THIS jam!

But seriously I don't follow Turkish politics closely but if it's anything like the other wannabe strongman states, he might be able to just throw some lower ranking cronies under the bus and make a big show of fixing everything.

Libluini posted:

The official death toll has risen to 50000 (UN estimate) by now, so even if not, it's certainly one terrifyingly bad earthquake.

poo poo that's bad. Any indication how many might be still missing? I imagine anyone not found yet are probably long dead under the rubble somewhere unfortunately.

# ? Feb 15, 2023 15:35

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Libluini posted:

The official death toll has risen to 50000 (UN estimate) by now, so even if not, it's certainly one terrifyingly bad earthquake.

It's currently the fifth most deadly earthquake this century. Hopefully it will stay that way because the death toll would have to almost double to overtake the fourth most deadly quake.

# ? Feb 15, 2023 15:50

Electric Wrigglies: Feb 6, 2015

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

It's currently the fifth most deadly earthquake this century. Hopefully it will stay that way because the death toll would have to almost double to overtake the fourth most deadly quake.

That's incredible, really.

# ? Feb 15, 2023 17:44

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

mobby_6kl posted:

It seems like Erdo personally was promoting the policy of relaxing building standards though so he could claim he solved housing:

https://news.yahoo.com/resurfaced-videos-2019-shows-turkish-131708414.html

Lol, well yes he certainly put himself in didn't he.

Electric Wrigglies posted:

That's incredible, really.

There's a great many bodies under mountains of rubble which don't even have machines digging at them yet. I don't know where the number will go in the end but it will be higher than today, unfortunately.

# ? Feb 15, 2023 17:53

Boris Galerkin: Dec 17, 2011; I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

mobby_6kl posted:

It seems like Erdo personally was promoting the policy of relaxing building standards though so he could claim he solved housing:

https://news.yahoo.com/resurfaced-videos-2019-shows-turkish-131708414.html

I admit I don't know anything about how politics in T�rkiye works or how strong Erdoğan's grip is but in other dictatorships wouldn't the dear leader just play word olympics and find a way to say "I didn't mean it like that and it's these underling's fault so they're gonna get proverbially hung"?

Sidenote, can the � in T�rkiye be transliterated as ue like it is in German?

# ? Feb 15, 2023 18:05

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Zudgemud posted:

Yeah that is gonna bite him in the rear end, especially in that region.

The ones most directly affected won't be voting, unfortunately...

Zoning Peace is a wonderful euphemism, though :discourse:

# ? Feb 15, 2023 18:37

Zedhe Khoja: Nov 10, 2017; sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna

Boris Galerkin posted:

Sidenote, can the � in T�rkiye be transliterated as ue like it is in German?

e:
https://twitter.com/USAmbKabul/status/1625808160614240258

Zedhe Khoja fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Feb 15, 2023

# ? Feb 15, 2023 20:35

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Zedhe Khoja posted:

@USAmbKabul

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Feb 15, 2023 22:28

adebisi lives: Nov 11, 2009

Absurd Alhazred posted:

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Deleted, enjoy this one that's even better:

https://twitter.com/USAmbKabul/status/1620783222572605440?t=AAf_gHaJ34bpJTSzbEddBA&s=19

# ? Feb 16, 2023 16:57

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

why is she asking me? I guess she really does need the advice

# ? Feb 16, 2023 17:48

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

Is this person like, an actual person appointed to treat with Afghanistan/advise on policy?

# ? Feb 16, 2023 18:10

Boris Galerkin: Dec 17, 2011; I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Is this person like, an actual person appointed to treat with Afghanistan/advise on policy?

quote:

char�g� d'af�faires

- a diplomatic official who temporarily takes the place of an ambassador.
- a state's diplomatic representative in a minor country.

idk, sounds like it could be either the replacement of an ambassador to just being the person in charge of the day to day operations

her tweets are really bad though and should prolly have all been sent from her personal twitter account, not an official us government one

Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Feb 16, 2023

# ? Feb 16, 2023 18:17

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

the charg� d'affaires is typically a senior diplomat on a station which for some reason either lacks an ambassador or who's the temporary replacement of the permanent ambassador.

sometimes this is because the country in question doesn't have a formal embassy. for example, norway doesn't have a formal embassy in cuba for political reasons, so diplomatic relations are maintained through the embasy in, i believe, mexico - one of the diplomats there is appointed charg� d'affaires and acts as de-facto ambassador to cuba. other reasons can be that the ambassador is indisposed or in the process of being exchanged.

i'm not sure how this interacts with the incredibly weird american system of doling out ambassadorships as political favours, but i can imagine that in countries where the official ambassador is some guy who gave the winning candidate for president a lot of money, the most senior career diplomat is appointed charg� d'affaires and actually conducts most of the serious business of the embassy while the ambassador is out cutting ribbons and attending cocktail parties or whatever

this all seems to make those tweets even more inexplicable until you account for career diplomats often being genuinely insane, and for kabul at this moment being probably one of the least attractive postings for anyone in the entire US foreign service

e; googling her it seems she took the post in 2022. she's probably some weirdo who saw a chance to revive a flagging career (or skip a step or two on the ladder) by taking a formally senior post that nobody else wanted and for which she's formally qualified.

V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Feb 16, 2023

# ? Feb 16, 2023 19:18

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

V. Illych L. posted:

e; googling her it seems she took the post in 2022. she's probably some weirdo who saw a chance to revive a flagging career (or skip a step or two on the ladder) by taking a formally senior post that nobody else wanted and for which she's formally qualified.

yeah if i were a ladder-climber in the state department i feel like kabul would be worth my while in the long run if i didn't get kidnapped

edit vvv but what if she's compelled to dress up as a crusader

i say swears online fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Feb 16, 2023

# ? Feb 16, 2023 19:40

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

The US Embassy in Afghanistan [sic] has relocated to Doha, Qatar, so it's not quite as dangerous a posting as it would seem.

# ? Feb 16, 2023 22:31

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Absurd Alhazred posted:

The US Embassy in Afghanistan [sic] has relocated to Doha, Qatar, so it's not quite as dangerous a posting as it would seem.

it's still an incredibly lovely post. the US has no functioning consular presence in afghanistan at all afaik, so her whole job is to listen to people to whom other people made promises which they then broke come and whine. occasionally, the taliban whines about the US freezing their central bank assets. just nothing but bad vibes and the occasional intelligence operation which she can't even know that much about.

# ? Feb 17, 2023 00:12

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

V. Illych L. posted:

it's still an incredibly lovely post. the US has no functioning consular presence in afghanistan at all afaik, so her whole job is to listen to people to whom other people made promises which they then broke come and whine. occasionally, the taliban whines about the US freezing their central bank assets. just nothing but bad vibes and the occasional intelligence operation which she can't even know that much about.

I don't know if it sounds like ladder climbing or where you'd just throw people who have failed up enough you need to give them some kind of prestige. Assuming it's her tweeting, well, I think that's probably the case.

# ? Feb 17, 2023 00:17

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Absurd Alhazred posted:

I don't know if it sounds like ladder climbing or where you'd just throw people who have failed up enough you need to give them some kind of prestige. Assuming it's her tweeting, well, I think that's probably the case.

yeah this is also a possible explanation. the point remains, though, the cream of the state department crop is not going to the us embassy to afghanistan at the moment

# ? Feb 17, 2023 00:26

slurm: Jul 28, 2022; by Hand Knit

What does it cost to buy a lovely ambassadorship anyway

# ? Feb 19, 2023 23:06

Fuschia tude: Dec 26, 2004; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2019

slurm posted:

What does it cost to buy a lovely ambassadorship anyway

If it's anything like US politicians, shockingly little

# ? Feb 20, 2023 02:06

Boris Galerkin: Dec 17, 2011; I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

slurm posted:

What does it cost to buy a lovely ambassadorship anyway

I thought ambassadorships in the US were for nepo babies, failsons, and other similar types.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 04:22

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Boris Galerkin posted:

I thought ambassadorships in the US were for nepo babies, failsons, and other similar types.

Mostly large campaign contributors and socialites. Ambassadors need to be able to throw good dinner parties, that's about their only job. Any real diplomatic stuff is handled by State Department personnel.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 04:23

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# ? May 23, 2024 19:57

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Theres probably a sliding scale depending on the desirability of the posting. The ambassador in Rome or Paris is going to have a fun time, the ones in Luanda or Islamabad not so much.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 13:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread: Clarissa Explains the Fall

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