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Subjunctive posted:got this to use at work for project completion markers!
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Feb 28, 2023 16:39
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PurpleXVI posted:How the hell did Exalted ever get a second edition? Are you surprised there's a commercial appetite for bestiality fiction? Especially for fiction that only just brushes against the topic in one or two places, and is otherwise mostly about being a wolf person? e. I am not intending to throw shade at furries as a group here, just wanna be clear that's not my intention; but this is surely a subculture that's out there and they buy things
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Feb 28, 2023 17:33
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Leperflesh posted:Are you surprised there's a commercial appetite for bestiality fiction? Especially for fiction that only just brushes against the topic in one or two places, and is otherwise mostly about being a wolf person? My understanding from friends who are furries is that there is a VERY bright line between being into humanoids with animal or reptilian features (so your fursonas or scalie personas) and being into literally loving animals, even as a fantasy. So yeah, even most furries don’t want actual bestiality fiction.
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Feb 28, 2023 18:32
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If the popularity of Twilight and associated media is any indication, sex with a wolfman is a plain vanilla fantasy shared by a broad segment of the population.
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Feb 28, 2023 18:49
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Arivia posted:My understanding from friends who are furries is that there is a VERY bright line between being into humanoids with animal or reptilian features (so your fursonas or scalie personas) and being into literally loving animals, even as a fantasy. So yeah, even most furries don’t want actual bestiality fiction. Absolutely you are correct: but there is a bestiality community out there, obviously. I guess my point here is that we should never be shocked that a particular fetish fantasy thing exists and still has customers and could get a second printing. Have you seen the Internet? Rule 34 etc. etc. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 19:15
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I mean you can go pretty deep into Exalted without encountering any bestiality at all. I can't imagine why they decided they should put that in there, but it isn't prominent enough to matter to most people. It wasn't really until Second edition that Exalted got deeply, deeply gross. EDIT: Actually, I take it back, I do know why it's in there. Lunars are, in part, supposed to be the hosed up hillbilly mutants of the setting, off living at the edge of Creation and making armies of wyld-corrupted mutants for you to fight. The bestiality stuff makes them gross and creepy. Making that a player-facing option, however, is certainly a choice, and making that option available to everybody else is someone huffing their own farts. Cool Dad fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 19:27
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Also, note that Lunars 1e was poorly received in its own time (and, with current hindsight, is considered the worst book for that entire edition). While 1e Exalted has other problematic aspects and writing in poor taste, it has some pretty great setting building in other areas; books like Scavenger Sons and Games of Divinity had been released before it, and I generally consider those books to be very excellent.
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Feb 28, 2023 19:34
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Cool Dad posted:I mean you can go pretty deep into Exalted without encountering any bestiality at all. I can't imagine why they decided they should put that in there, but it isn't prominent enough to matter to most people. That was kind of the standard pattern with WoD. WoD: Here's some hosed up poo poo that the NPCs factions do Players: We want a book about playing those hosed up factions. WoD: We'll make a new book right away.
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Feb 28, 2023 19:35
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It does remind me of The Freak in Unknown Armies being the only person who managed to be both an Avatar and a Adept, by which we mean a horrible monster of a person who needs to roll sanity to look themselves in a mirror, and people still not getting that they're not a goal to strive towards. Sometimes people just want the cool powers, and stop reading anything that would make them feel weird, you know?
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Feb 28, 2023 20:44
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Capfalcon posted:It does remind me of The Freak in Unknown Armies being the only person who managed to be both an Avatar and a Adept, by which we mean a horrible monster of a person who needs to roll sanity to look themselves in a mirror, and people still not getting that they're not a goal to strive towards. Boy that was an unfortunate choice. (Which Stolze has apologized for, and tried to fix in the new edition.)
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Feb 28, 2023 21:22
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Capfalcon posted:It does remind me of The Freak in Unknown Armies being the only person who managed to be both an Avatar and a Adept The whole Mystic Hermaphrodite archetype seems specifically designed to be combined with an adept school. The taboo requires you to unify opposing principles in order to embody the avatar. The high level channel lets you generate charges, which aren't really useful if you don't have a casting ability to spend them. I guess you could use them to fuel rituals, but that's not as much fun as having a full spell list.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:26
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Bucnasti posted:That was kind of the standard pattern with WoD. Classic White Wolf is also generally not really understanding what people want to play or how people play their game, in my opinion. oVamp, for instance, very clearly wants to be a game about struggling with your own inhumanity, maintaining connections to mortal life and kindred backstabbery and politics. However, what half the tools they give you work much better for is "you're a superhero who disintegrates in UV light" as you pick up a werewolf and hurl him into a tanker truck just as the group's Tremere lights it on fire. It really always felt like the groups I played with leaned more into the action fantasy part of oVamp, but at no point did the gameline ever really feel like it accepted that. Another example would also be stuff like Exalted 2e Lunar Chimeras being inexplicably NPC-only rather than as the super cool capstone set of abilities they should've been. I also can't think of anyone who enjoyed the "reveal" that the Technocracy are actually just Mages but in denial.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:32
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mellonbread posted:I guess you could use them to fuel rituals, but that's not as much fun as having a full spell list. Yeah, but consider the raw game-breaking power of not needing to be severely mentally ill.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:33
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PurpleXVI posted:
Hell, I can't think of anyone who was even mildly surprised by it.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:36
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Ratoslov posted:Yeah, but consider the raw game-breaking power of not needing to be severely mentally ill. I mean, it's not like mono-Adepts are usually much better in this regard. (Mono-Avatars can be, but are also in a constant struggle of conforming their identities to their archetype.) There's a reason that "no magic powers, but also no magic bullshit" remains a viable UA character choice across the campaign power levels. I feel like the real issue with the Mystic Hermaphrodite, besides the obvious fact that there are some very clumsy ideas about gender identity going on there and with the Freak, is that it was clearly written to be the Freak's unique powerset first, then made a PC option when it plays pretty badly in that space. It comes back to the same problem as so much White Wolf stuff: not everything an NPC can do is going to be a good fit as a thing a PC can do, or as a thing a PC can do exactly like an NPC could. I think you could probably write a modified Mystic Hermaphrodite avatar path for PC use that doesn't rely on being an avadept/having Every Personal Problem, and just keep the avadept flavor as a thing the Freak and maybe a few other high rollers can pull off, but that isn't what we got.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:43
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PurpleXVI posted:I also can't think of anyone who enjoyed the "reveal" that the Technocracy are actually just Mages but in denial. Was that ever a "reveal"? I'm not really familiar with 1st edition Ascension but I thought it was an open part of the premise from the jump.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:47
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Whirling posted:Also, note that Lunars 1e was poorly received in its own time (and, with current hindsight, is considered the worst book for that entire edition). While 1e Exalted has other problematic aspects and writing in poor taste, it has some pretty great setting building in other areas; books like Scavenger Sons and Games of Divinity had been released before it, and I generally consider those books to be very excellent. When did they first start getting described as the exalt faction that used to all have lifemates in the Solars so you could write yourself up a perfect powerful but not quite as powerful as you magic wolf girlfriend that was fated to be with you so you didn't even have to clean your room to impress them?
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Feb 28, 2023 21:59
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theironjef posted:When did they first start getting described as the exalt faction that used to all have lifemates in the Solars so you could write yourself up a perfect powerful but not quite as powerful as you magic wolf girlfriend that was fated to be with you so you didn't even have to clean your room to impress them? That was core from the 1E corebook on (which, iirc, also had an extremely cringeworthy bit of flavor fiction about one of the most powerful surviving Lunars having drifted feral and purposeless for centuries after the death of her Solar mate, but then she feels him reincarnate and is like OH MY BOYFRIEND IS BACK, MY LIFE HAS MEANING AGAIN). Lunars had pretty big problems from the jump, turns out! (I'm the idiot who was convinced I wanted to play a Lunar prior to the 1E splatbook release, very excitedly received the splatbook, and almost immediately went "oh poo poo, I told my GM I was doing this, but oh christ." I did it, because I was a stupid kid who was too proud to just tell my GM I wanted to switch back to a Solar, but the character I ended up playing was based as little in any of the fluff as possible. God, college gaming was a mess.)
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Feb 28, 2023 22:05
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Ferrinus posted:Was that ever a "reveal"? I'm not really familiar with 1st edition Ascension but I thought it was an open part of the premise from the jump.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:11
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Nessus posted:It may not have been explicit in the very first Ascension book, and as we know, the 1.0 edition of anything is the best one. (That’s a bitcoin joke folks) 1 point of quintessence = 1 point of quintessence
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Feb 28, 2023 23:18
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Ratoslov posted:Yeah, but consider the raw game-breaking power of not needing to be severely mentally ill. Thankfully, that's up for us players to introduce.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:39
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PurpleXVI posted:I also can't think of anyone who enjoyed the "reveal" that the Technocracy are actually just Mages but in denial.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:59
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YggdrasilTM posted:It was never a "reveal", it was the premise of the game. To put a point on it, as soon as the Technocracy is introduced right at the beginning of the book, and then not much later when the Ascension War is explained, it's very explicit that the Technocracy are mages utilizing the paradigm of "modern technology/science" to try to win control of consensual reality. This is all very matter-of-fact and upfront right there at the start of the 1e core.
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Mar 1, 2023 00:13
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That Old Tree posted:To put a point on it, as soon as the Technocracy is introduced right at the beginning of the book, and then not much later when the Ascension War is explained, it's very explicit that the Technocracy are mages utilizing the paradigm of "modern technology/science" to try to win control of consensual reality. This is all very matter-of-fact and upfront right there at the start of the 1e core. Yeah, they're effectively one of the 'classes' you can be.
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Mar 1, 2023 00:27
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I've been trying out some early episodes of the Critical Role podcast to see what it's all about, and I have to say it's really not grabbing me. They do good character voices, what with being professional voice actors and all, but otherwise it's been completely pedestrian murderhobo and rules-laywering antics, with some vague sexual harassment at various intervals and an early digression into a "dwarven brothel" and all the remarks that entails. Is there a better jumping on point that presents some highly competent or next level GMing or RPing that's engaging? I tried watching the first episode of the animated series they commissioned to see if there's any retroactive shift in like, tone or characterization or anything there, and no it's still ultimately the same. Or well, since it was scripted they had some time to add in great jokes like a bad guy roaring in the druid's face, the druid barfing in the bad guy's mouth, and the bad guy barfing back before getting taken down by some Entangling Vines. A riveting addition. This is such a weird tonal dissonance with how the fanbase discusses the series. Like if Rat Queens had a fan energy around it that was similar to the most cloying, saccharine parasocial level the McElroys had at their peak.
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Mar 1, 2023 07:25
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Parasocial relationships in a nutshell.
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Mar 1, 2023 07:42
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I think the best start point for campaign 1 should be around episode 23-24, with the start of the Briarwood arc? that starts with episode 3 of the animated series. But I honestly never get into campaign one that much, I prefer the second one.
YggdrasilTM fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Mar 1, 2023 |
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Mar 1, 2023 07:47
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Nuns with Guns posted:I've been trying out some early episodes of the Critical Role podcast to see what it's all about, and I have to say it's really not grabbing me. They do good character voices, what with being professional voice actors and all, but otherwise it's been completely pedestrian murderhobo and rules-laywering antics, with some vague sexual harassment at various intervals and an early digression into a "dwarven brothel" and all the remarks that entails. You know that comic where it's like, panel one, a player describing their new character whose gimmick is being a murder-clown, and the second panel is twenty sessions later and it's the same clown holding open a door so his beloved can escape, and they're confessing their undying love for one another but he's still a loving murder-clown? That's poking fun at Critical Role, directly, and it's one of the most shot-to-the-heart accurate pieces of satire ever made about this hobby. People get insanely dedicated to Critical Role like this: they're told, "It gets good after 20 episodes, just stick with it," and some proportion of people told that do stick with it. Now they've watched around 80-100 hours of charismatic people doing something, and wouldn't you know it, now they're invested because that's how human brains work. There's nothing to find, quit while you're ahead. And having said this, decent odds that people will now come in and link The Good Bits to disprove my absolutist stance. You can watch those and see if they make the earth move for you, and if they do, then there may be something in there that's worth the thousands of hours. If not, write it off as susceptibility to parasocial relationships, as Ghost Leviathan pointed out.
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Mar 1, 2023 10:58
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Just watch Dimension 20 instead.
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Mar 1, 2023 11:07
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Megazver posted:Just watch Dimension 20 instead. What did Nuns with Guns do to you??? Is this an Inigo Montoya scenario?
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Mar 1, 2023 11:08
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Kestral posted:You know that comic where it's like, panel one, a player describing their new character whose gimmick is being a murder-clown, and the second panel is twenty sessions later and it's the same clown holding open a door so his beloved can escape, and they're confessing their undying love for one another but he's still a loving murder-clown? That's poking fun at Critical Role, directly, and it's one of the most shot-to-the-heart accurate pieces of satire ever made about this hobby. For those that haven't seen it.
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Mar 1, 2023 11:14
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Kestral posted:What did Nuns with Guns do to you??? Is this an Inigo Montoya scenario? It's just one of those "don't watch/read/play this popular thing, watch/read/play this other almost completely equivalent but less popular thing instead!"
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Mar 1, 2023 11:15
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I think i prefer actual plays in the form of small one-shots rather than massive campaigns, so my preference is for stuff like Film Reroll, though some of their episodes are much better than others- their most brilliant stuff (Alien, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid) is mostly shorter.
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Mar 1, 2023 11:33
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YggdrasilTM posted:It's just one of those "don't watch/read/play this popular thing, watch/read/play this other almost completely equivalent but less popular thing instead!" It's so much less popular that they just announced Mercer is running their new campaign. I'm suggesting it because the quality level/production value is the same, but the format is different - short-ish runs of tightly plotted and edited campaigns.
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Mar 1, 2023 12:57
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Just sod it and listen to Dragon Friends, they don't even pretend to be serious about it. Much shorter too.
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Mar 1, 2023 14:37
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YggdrasilTM posted:I think the best start point for campaign 1 should be around episode 23-24, with the start of the Briarwood arc? that starts with episode 3 of the animated series. But I honestly never get into campaign one that much, I prefer the second one. Thanks, I'll think about if I want to skip ahead. I suppose it can't be any worse than starting at the first arc where the characters were already established from game sessions that happened before they started streaming them. Kestral posted:You know that comic where it's like, panel one, a player describing their new character whose gimmick is being a murder-clown, and the second panel is twenty sessions later and it's the same clown holding open a door so his beloved can escape, and they're confessing their undying love for one another but he's still a loving murder-clown? That's poking fun at Critical Role, directly, and it's one of the most shot-to-the-heart accurate pieces of satire ever made about this hobby. People get insanely dedicated to Critical Role like this: they're told, "It gets good after 20 episodes, just stick with it," and some proportion of people told that do stick with it. Now they've watched around 80-100 hours of charismatic people doing something, and wouldn't you know it, now they're invested because that's how human brains work. Okay, so sunk cost + parasocial relationships. I was confused because people critical of it and people positive about it were talking about the gaming in it like it was some unachievable above-grade standard. And like voice talent and production budget aside, it was like peeking back into my high school games when they all started laughing about a pre-stream adventure where the dragonborn sorcerer polymorphed into a female troll to "Bugs Bunny" two male trolls, was almost raped (something Matt and multiple PCs all agree was going to happen), someone shot the dick off one of the trolls, and they carried it around in a bag of holding for a while. As a semi-related note, the first episode of the animated series had a one-off tavern keeper who had such a specific tumblr OC over-designed look I was wondering if it was a fan PC that was added to the cartoon as part of a kickstarter backer reward. Then when I went to check apparently it was a special event where the fans got to design a single NPC in the show by polls, and the final voting results were something like "nonbinary changeling bard" and that really is the most unsurprising fan avatar made manifest in the game world. hyphz posted:Just sod it and listen to Dragon Friends, they don't even pretend to be serious about it. Much shorter too. I was at least expecting something like the approach Friends at the Table has. Should probably just pick that up again and listen to more of it. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Mar 1, 2023 |
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Mar 1, 2023 15:23
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Nuns with Guns posted:Thanks, I'll think about if I want to skip ahead. I suppose it can't be any worse than starting at the first arc where the characters were already established from game sessions that happened before they started streaming them. They're all better actors than you're going to get in most other APs, so sometimes they come together and do pretty good improv that is funny or touching, but a lot of the times it's just them playing D&D, and honestly they aren't that good at it. Who knows how much they make for playing, but surely they could learn the basic rules for how your character works by now. Not having a great grasp of the rules would also be a little whatever, except that they spend a lot of time in combat playing poorly, which is just confusing. I didn't watch campaign 1, and I hear that there're more technical issues and no one (sam riegel, who plays the bard scanlan, especially) was taking it quite as seriously. Campaign 2 has been OK as a thing to have on in the background, but I still burn out on it after a while and take breaks. Most of the appeal is definitely para-social as they just have hundreds and hundreds of hours of content, so you get to know the cast very well and the funny moments/inside jokes/poignant moments that concludes a character arc etc. all hit harder. I think it did go a long way to popularize the way of running a campaign where instead of it being 100% the DM's story, it's resolving individual character arcs in a more collaborative effort, and very often they specifically flee any sign that the DM is trying to involve them in some sort of meta plot/adventure hook.
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Mar 1, 2023 15:42
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If they played 5E well, they wouldn't have any more fun and way less viewer engagement. 
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Mar 1, 2023 15:45
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I've never had a group that did not indulge in ultraviolent, juvenile, or ethically questionable escapades at least sometimes, and I've been GMing for 26 years. "You can't let us start with explosives and expect us not to use them." --Every Shadowrun character, faced with a dilema they can't immediately solve Part of the appeal of those podcasts is they remind you of your own hijinks. Not that I've listened to any of them besides Dungeons and Daddies Legit character arc 
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Mar 1, 2023 17:41
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Yeah, this is a riff on comedy actual play podcasts that inevitably get serious but it's also just every campaign I've been in. If no one makes a gag character, then someone will tell a really good joke ooc and it'll get stuck to them in your memory forever.
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