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Use Paranoia rules. Don't tell them what system they're playing and actively punish them if they ask.
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Apr 4, 2023 20:50
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Bucnasti posted:You should sit them on the ground, place a copy of the Players Handbook, and a copy of Blades in the Dark on the floor across from them and see which one they will crawl towards. Wire mother? No! Storygames mother!
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Apr 4, 2023 21:56
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Lasers and Feelings but you have to choose between food and comfort
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Apr 4, 2023 22:12
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Youremother posted:Use Paranoia rules. Don't tell them what system they're playing and actively punish them if they ask.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:28
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Kestral posted:Honestly I'd see if you can get them started on the games you actually want to play right off the bat, because the D&D brain damage is real and if your goal is to play other things, those games will go more smoothly if you're not having to unlearn bad habits. Brain Damage was oWoD, not D&D. D&D was the Impossible Thing Before Breakfast.
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Apr 4, 2023 23:00
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Nuns with Guns posted:In what sense? From Kestral's post history, it probably makes people digress about 4e on SA 
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Apr 5, 2023 20:14
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You said it... 
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Apr 5, 2023 20:27
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Nuns with Guns posted:You said it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCdApJf5_g4
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Apr 6, 2023 01:14
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Anyone know if Hackmaster 5e is any good? The game made by the Knights of the Dinner table peeps?
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Apr 6, 2023 01:21
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It is not. It tries too hard to emulate the comics unfunnily and is a crunchy mess.
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Apr 6, 2023 01:55
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Thank you!
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Apr 6, 2023 02:13
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Kwyndig posted:It is not. It tries too hard to emulate the comics unfunnily and is a crunchy mess. Are you sure you’re talking about Hackmaster 5e and not 4e? 4e was the one with the license from WotC for a lot of D&D stuff that was required to be a parody by the terms of that license. 5e came out after the license expired and is designed to be actually playable, with Garweeze Wurld an actually usable setting. e: to be clear I don’t have hands on experience with either is why I didn’t pitch in originally, I’m just pointing out that what you’re describing sounds much closer to 4e than 5e. Arivia fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 09:20
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It's been a few years since I last played, but I remember Hackmaster 5e being mostly playable but with a lot of choices I felt were really dumb, many in the name of "realism":
Pretty sure there were other things I didn't like, but I can't remember them right now. senrath fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 15:24
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I think you played with bad people.
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Apr 6, 2023 15:26
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goatface posted:I think you played with bad people. I mean, yes, but these are all rules from the book. The badness was in not getting rid of them.
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Apr 6, 2023 15:35
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I think senrath could have mentioned they mean Hackmaster 5e for the update readers.
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Apr 6, 2023 16:13
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Yeah, Hackmaster 5e was them pulling a Warhammer and forgetting that the first edition (4e) was satire.
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Apr 6, 2023 16:18
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hyphz posted:I think senrath could have mentioned they mean Hackmaster 5e for the update readers. Yeah, probably. I'll edit that in. Was thinking it was obvious from the discussion but forgot how the Awful App handles new posts and that there are enough people who have done dumb things in D&D 5e that I could've just been complaining about someone's really stupid houserules that I thought were official. senrath fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 16:19
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Tbf, all of that does look like bad houserules from a toxic gaming table. It's the sort of stuff I'd expect from a single author heartbreaker. Edit: Context: I know nothing about Hackmaster or Knights of the dinner table
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Apr 6, 2023 16:33
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goatface posted:Tbf, all of that does look like bad houserules from a toxic gaming table. It's the sort of stuff I'd expect from a single author heartbreaker. Knights of the Dinner Table is a comic that parodied that kind of toxic gaming experience. And then Hackmaster 5e just did it perfectly straight for some reason. senrath fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 16:39
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senrath posted:Knights of the Dinner Table is a comic that parodied that kind of toxic gaming experience. And then Hackmaster 5e just did it perfectly straight for some reason. It’s possibly because KoDT originally parodied that stuff, but after all the jokes were made, it turned into a kind of gaming soap opera and proxy adventure story a la CR but with occasional nods to the old parody stuff. Which meant that the Knights and Hackmaster went from a toxic group playing a grognardy system to an amazing group with the occasional falling out, and Hackmaster became an incredible system that could deliver all this amazing emergent gameplay while holding onto the groggy verisimilitude.
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Apr 6, 2023 16:57
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senrath posted:Knights of the Dinner Table is a comic that parodied that kind of toxic gaming experience. And then Hackmaster 5e just did it perfectly straight for some reason. Most of those things sound like jokes from the comic except the "orcs are all rapists"-bit. KotD didn't land every joke perfectly, but I never recall it making light of sexual assault.
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Apr 6, 2023 17:53
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Hypnobeard posted:Yeah, Hackmaster 5e was them pulling a Warhammer and forgetting that the first edition (4e) was satire. From the introduction to HackMaster Basic (5e): quote:Okay, a brief word on HackMaster’s unique style and a bit of back history. When HackMaster 4th Edition came out it earned something of a reputation among some gamers as being a ‘silly’ or ‘joke’ game. A few quickly dismissed it as being such. A pity. Fortunately tens of thousands of gamers were able to look beyond the veneer and recognize that there was a truly fun and unique game underneath and quickly embraced HackMaster as their game of choice. Just to clarify, our previous license required that HackMaster 4th Edition be a ‘parody’ and approval for HM product required a certain bit of ‘silliness’ to be sprinkled about. HackMaster Basic (and its upcoming successor, Advanced HackMaster) are free of any such licensing requirements. They knew and were intentionally moving away from that.
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Apr 6, 2023 17:55
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PurpleXVI posted:Most of those things sound like jokes from the comic except the "orcs are all rapists"-bit. KotD didn't land every joke perfectly, but I never recall it making light of sexual assault. I thought so too, but then I checked the book. “Hacklopedia of Beasts 5e” posted:
DAMMIT RPG AUTHORS WILL YOU PLEASE JUST STOP BEING TERRIBLE
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Apr 6, 2023 18:08
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Jesus loving Christ, why would you ever. Why would you ever.
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Apr 6, 2023 18:34
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Yeah see, I don’t actually want to play the Bone Tomahawk RPG. I’m good.
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Apr 6, 2023 18:35
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What a delightfully lighthearted roleplaying game inspired by a comic full of jibes and gambols.
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Apr 6, 2023 19:06
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PurpleXVI posted:Jesus loving Christ, why would you ever. Why would you ever. I mean, the most generous interpretation is that it's a parodic exaggeration of the trope of Orcs as utterly disgusting and irredeemable, thus giving PCs carte blanche to kill them at will (or, in this case, to raid/destroy their settlements at will); and most of the surrounding write-up is about how awful they are in various ways. But still, I didn't know.. they went that far or on that topic. (None of that ever came up in the comic, needless to say.) Edit: Orcs aren't playable characters, but half-orcs are. And I think the "all orcs are rapists" comes out even more in the Player's Handbook summary. Hackmaster 5e Player's Guide posted:A half-orc character will always have an human mother and have been born and raised in human lands; those born in orc society are generally born into slavery (if male) and kept as breeders (if female) and therefore have no opportunity to become player characters. Although orcs breed with humans to produce half-orcs, it is never a matter of love. The act is violent and unwanted; any human (or non-orc in general) willing to sleep with an orc has passed beyond the realm of sanity, for there is nothing even remotely approaching compassion in these creatures. hyphz fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 19:44
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Goblin Slayer had to come from somewhere
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Apr 6, 2023 20:31
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hyphz posted:I mean, the most generous interpretation is that it's a parodic exaggeration of the trope of Orcs as utterly disgusting and irredeemable, thus giving PCs carte blanche to kill them at will (or, in this case, to raid/destroy their settlements at will); and most of the surrounding write-up is about how awful they are in various ways. But still, I didn't know.. they went that far or on that topic. (None of that ever came up in the comic, needless to say.) Honestly, the most likely explanation I can think of is that RPG culture just had a lot of really gross default assumptions about orcs for a really long time and when they wrote Hackmaster 5e in 2012 everyone involved just thought it was fine. So, I guess we can stay positive and focus on how far we've come as a community?
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Apr 6, 2023 20:34
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Couldn't they just make their orcs non-sentient? I never understood why people don't just make them basically robots made of meat by wizards if they want to have a thing that people can fight without feeling guilty about killing them.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:03
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A fair number of games and stories do this, and there's also the parallel gambit of "no see these are demons, they're made of evil, it's actually 100% morally uncomplicated to kill them", but those gambits are actually even more steeped in racial ideology than your typical "savage" orcs, not less. Oh, word, these talking, tool-using humanoids are actually so fundamentally different from us in their very essence that we don't need to consider them people?
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Apr 6, 2023 21:08
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You usually can't really kill demons anyway.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:13
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I can't believe Allison's name was an exaggeration
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Apr 6, 2023 21:14
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senrath posted:It's been a few years since I last played, but I remember Hackmaster 5e being mostly playable but with a lot of choices I felt were really dumb, many in the name of "realism": I had bought Hackmaster 5e and some other stuff roughly around the time of a move, and it got “return to sender”-ed. Luckily, my new place was close enough to one of the KenzerCo bigwigs that, when I emailed my new address, they asked if I wanted to come pick it up instead of paying for shipping again. I agreed, drove to a house that was doubling as a warehouse (like a modern Kickstarter fulfillment situation), and proceeded to get “game store guy”d for like an hour, being anti-sold while I just wanted to pick up my stuff and go. “You know how characters in D&D are bullshit superheroes?” ‘Uh…sure?’ “Well, Hackmaster is nothing like that! Characters are shitfarmers, and have to fight for every scrap of power, …  ”‘Okay’ “ …and as GM, your job is to make them suffer…”‘please my family is waiting’ “ ”‘*desperately texting people to call me so I can escape*’ I remember reading through the core books and thinking it looked dated but okay, but even for the time full of enough fiddly bullshit I didn’t see myself ever playing or running it. Must’ve blocked out the monster manual, though. *weirdest by far was picking up Cooking Mama during the stage of the pandemic where stores actually took things seriously, after it had been pulled from the e-shop and partially recalled; a man clad head to toe in black, wearing a ski mask and gloves came out of a locked GameStop with a double-bagged game explaining that it shouldn’t exist AmiYumi fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 21:35
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AmiYumi posted:*weirdest by far was picking up Cooking Mama during the stage of the pandemic where stores actually took things seriously, after it had been pulled from the e-shop and partially recalled; a man clad head to toe in black, wearing a ski mask and gloves came out of a locked GameStop with a double-bagged game explaining that it shouldn’t exist How did a Cooking Mama game get recalled? That series always seemed pretty inoffensive.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:48
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PurpleXVI posted:How did a Cooking Mama game get recalled? That series always seemed pretty inoffensive. Copyright issues iirc with the publisher
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Apr 6, 2023 21:49
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That whole thing was weird, the game was ridiculously unoptimized and ran slow and heated up the console so there was a rumor that it was mining cryptocurrency. Not helped by the fact that at some point one of the companies involved in the game made one of those say-nothing press releases about looking into crypto/blockchain bullshit for specious reasons.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:53
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You may have met the real Weird Pete.
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Apr 6, 2023 22:08
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BattleMaster posted:That whole thing was weird, the game was ridiculously unoptimized and ran slow and heated up the console so there was a rumor that it was mining cryptocurrency. Not helped by the fact that at some point one of the companies involved in the game made one of those say-nothing press releases about looking into crypto/blockchain bullshit for specious reasons. The best explanation I've heard is that someone probably said they'd include The Power Of The Blockchain to get funding, and then all the time they should have spent on optimizing was spent trying to fit blockchain in and then ripping it out at the last minute.
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Apr 6, 2023 23:01
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