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skooma512)
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theCalamity posted:lol the writer of the article responded It's pretty disingenuous to pretend to not see how employment is tied to the situation with inflation, and no-one thinks inflation is stabilizing the economy or good for average americans. The economy is certainly caught in a contradictory situation where high employment = bad but that doesn't mean it isn't true to some degree Like, we can talk about the Fed or our fiat currency or whatever but it's utter virtue signaling to just harp on reducing employment while turning a blind eye to the very real consequences of uncontrolled inflation
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Apr 6, 2023 19:29
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| # ? May 25, 2024 01:39 |
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hobbez posted:It's pretty disingenuous to pretend to not see how employment is tied to the situation with inflation, and no-one thinks inflation is stabilizing the economy or good for average americans. Prices go up forever whether people are getting paid more or not Consumer credit took off starting in the 1980s specifically because the gap between what poo poo cost and what people were getting paid got too big to ignore.
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Apr 6, 2023 19:31
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Willa Rogers posted:lmao at shrike triggering today's Bad-Dad Anecdote Hour & everyone falling for it. Would you stop with this already its such a tiring gimmick You don't have to defend all the Debras and Phils of the world and when you careen into every conversation like this about the boomers it makes you less and less sympathetic You are the boomer we are talking about right now and it sucks and i wish you would stop. You are a way better poster when you're contributing something substantive instead of policing our conversations about our lovely elders
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Apr 6, 2023 19:31
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willa's right
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Apr 6, 2023 19:40
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Prices go up forever whether people are getting paid more or not Only under particular circumstances, historically prices have been pretty static or have had huge peaks and troughs depending on their links to agriculture and things like balance of payments when the world was on the gold standard. The constant presence of meaningful inflation is something still measurable in decades, not an economic law, and the expansion of credit to provide a consumption base beyond the values given to workers is due to the modern financial system allowing more monopolistic industries to overexpand, overcharge and squeeze that value from the present and future for longer than ever before kicking off the next crash. It's absolutely not being driven by wages because no one is getting raises above inflation but inflation is definitely due our current economic forms and could be reduced to nothingness with enough changes to them.
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Apr 6, 2023 19:43
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:i'm not opposed to turning coachella or bonnaroo into a work camp sturgis
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Apr 6, 2023 19:45
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:i'm not opposed to turning coachella or bonnaroo into a work camp The Voice of Labor posted:sturgis
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Apr 6, 2023 19:49
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Mirthless posted:Would you stop with this already its such a tiring gimmick - Settle down Beavis. - Willa's correct.
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Apr 6, 2023 19:51
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Boomers deserve worse.
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Apr 6, 2023 19:51
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Puppy Burner posted:Boomers deserve worse.
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Apr 6, 2023 19:52
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Puppy Burner posted:Boomers deserve worse. Capitalists deserve worse. Capitalists created generations to pit labor against each other.
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Apr 6, 2023 19:53
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namesake posted:Only under particular circumstances, historically prices have been pretty static or have had huge peaks and troughs depending on their links to agriculture and things like balance of payments when the world was on the gold standard. The constant presence of meaningful inflation is something still measurable in decades, not an economic law, and the expansion of credit to provide a consumption base beyond the values given to workers is due to the modern financial system allowing more monopolistic industries to overexpand, overcharge and squeeze that value from the present and future for longer than ever before kicking off the next crash. It's absolutely not being driven by wages because no one is getting raises above inflation but inflation is definitely due our current economic forms and could be reduced to nothingness with enough changes to them. I dunno, don't most reports show wages are rising, albeit hugely variably by sector? I personally have gotten about 20-30% increase in comp over the past 18 months or so (but this is partially because I am in a chronically underpaid service profession). The fierce competition for labor and corresponding wages increases over the past few years seems pretty well demonstrated
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Apr 6, 2023 19:55
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what if we had high employment and low prices
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Apr 6, 2023 19:56
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Eric Cantonese posted:Xers rule. Boomers drool. While the latter is true, the former is taking longer than expected to come to be.
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Apr 6, 2023 19:56
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hobbez posted:It's pretty disingenuous to pretend to not see how employment is tied to the situation with inflation, and no-one thinks inflation is stabilizing the economy or good for average americans. The economy is certainly caught in a contradictory situation where high employment = bad but that doesn't mean it isn't true to some degree Hm, yeah that's ideology.
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Apr 6, 2023 19:59
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hobbez posted:I dunno, don't most reports show wages are rising, albeit hugely variably by sector? I personally have gotten about 20-30% increase in comp over the past 18 months or so (but this is partially because I am in a chronically underpaid service profession). The fierce competition for labor and corresponding wages increases over the past few years seems pretty well demonstrated  Yeah, don't think wages are what's driving inflation.
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Apr 6, 2023 20:01
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if companies and landlords lowered prices, inflation would go down
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Apr 6, 2023 20:01
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Our entire modern regime of credit scores measuring your worth as an American and gating your access to jobs, safety, etc got started pretty recently, the late 1980s. The people in charge had a choice wrt making sure consumption continued to rise - pay people more, or make consumer credit ubiquitous. They chose the latter and now you can pay for your groceries in four easy installments with Klaarna.
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Apr 6, 2023 20:01
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hobbez posted:I dunno, don't most reports show wages are rising, albeit hugely variably by sector? I personally have gotten about 20-30% increase in comp over the past 18 months or so (but this is partially because I am in a chronically underpaid service profession). The fierce competition for labor and corresponding wages increases over the past few years seems pretty well demonstrated I'm assuming you're in the USA so here's your national figures for the last few years: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/ Something broke in the economy and inflation started rising and then wages have risen but failed to match (right up to Feb 23 it seems) - that's the timeline. The overall result is less of the total production of society ends up in the hands of workers and more going to profits. namesake has issued a correction as of 20:07 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 20:02
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hobbez posted:It's pretty disingenuous to pretend to not see how employment is tied to the situation with inflation, and no-one thinks inflation is stabilizing the economy or good for average americans. The economy is certainly caught in a contradictory situation where high employment = bad but that doesn't mean it isn't true to some degree Maybe showering the rich with cash via PPP and bailouts and MIC blank check bills does more for monetary inflation than regular people having a job that barely pays them enough to live in accordance with 2019 prices? It's just funny how wages, hitherto notably already not keeping pace with the normal amount of inflation anyway, start go up a little bit and then the hammer needs to come down and put a stop to all that. Like even if one wanted to be a supply side dipshit about this housing alone is probably driving demand for higher wages because uh, people need to live somewhere and the landlords keep jacking up the price. No worry about the price spiral there of course.
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Apr 6, 2023 20:04
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Airbus to Double Production in China as It Moves Ahead With 2nd plane assembly linequote:
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Apr 6, 2023 20:04
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euphronius posted:what if we had high employment and low Low prices to you too!
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Apr 6, 2023 20:06
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euphronius posted:I wonder when clothes repair comes back big. I think it’s still cheaper just to buy new. i buy really nice denim (it pretty much all originates in Japan) and have used someone to repair them for the last several years. Definitely much cheaper to repair these. got at least 500 wears out of another pair with four repairs before I decided it was "totaled."
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Apr 6, 2023 20:08
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Giant Metal Robot posted:Low prices to you too!
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Apr 6, 2023 20:08
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namesake posted:I'm assuming you're in the USA so here's your national figures for the last few years: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/ gosh, maybe we shouldn't have spent the last decade giving the ultra-rich free money to corner the markets on everything from housing to used cars
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Apr 6, 2023 20:11
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hobbez posted:It's pretty disingenuous to pretend to not see how employment is tied to the situation with inflation, and no-one thinks inflation is stabilizing the economy or good for average americans. The economy is certainly caught in a contradictory situation where high employment = bad but that doesn't mean it isn't true to some degree the fed thinks that high employment among non-techies/non degree havers is bad and tried to crush it, then found out all the useless jobs that are at rotten companies are all the politically favored ones, swooped in to save them, and now has no loving idea what to do
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Apr 6, 2023 20:11
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I don't really disagree with anything you all are saying. To be clear, I don't think employment/rising wages are the only driver of inflation, just one of many factors. However, raising interest rates isn't only meant to reduce unemployment... It suppresses economic activity generally, and higher unemployment is a side effect. Higher unemployment is just where the most pain is felt I still think it's just scoring cheap political points to rail on how interest rates increase unemployment without proposing an alternative policy option that will reduce inflation
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Apr 6, 2023 20:13
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It's fun to look at things only rich people buy and see the prices spiraling out of control since 2010 because 90% of the money made since then has gone to those hundred rich guys and they're competing with each other 
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Apr 6, 2023 20:13
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hobbez posted:I don't really disagree with anything you all are saying. The Federal Reserve and many private sector ceos have all agreed that wages are not contributing to high inflation, but companies looking to exert pricing power. Triggering a recession to stop wage growth and increase unemployment is about disciplining labor.
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Apr 6, 2023 20:14
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hobbez posted:I dunno, don't most reports show wages are rising, albeit hugely variably by sector? I personally have gotten about 20-30% increase in comp over the past 18 months or so (but this is partially because I am in a chronically underpaid service profession). The fierce competition for labor and corresponding wages increases over the past few years seems pretty well demonstrated The only thing that unemployment will lower is wages tho. Labor functions like a market the same way everything else does under capitalism. More unemployment means a larger supply of labor. Increases in supply mean the lowering of prices. And we call the price of labor "wages".
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Apr 6, 2023 20:15
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president nixon we need you to do price controls come back please
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Apr 6, 2023 20:16
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hobbez posted:I don't really disagree with anything you all are saying. Price controls. Work everytime. Efb
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Apr 6, 2023 20:16
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pretty sure wages arent keeping up with inflation
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Apr 6, 2023 20:17
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Price controls. Work everytime. username/post
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Apr 6, 2023 20:17
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HallelujahLee posted:pretty sure wages arent keeping up with inflation They aren't and wages only started rising after high inflstion had become entrenched.
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Apr 6, 2023 20:19
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hobbez posted:I don't really disagree with anything you all are saying. Wages can only ever squeeze profits, not increase prices unless there are no profits at all because wages are a cost of production and so will reduce profit margin rather than spill out to the price. A wage-cost spiral assumes that businesses are determined and able to retain their total profits by then charging higher final prices but that can only be true if there is a change in the power relationship between buyers and sellers like an increase in monopoly power meaning the seller can start extracting higher profits because there are less alternatives or there's a general unmooring of economic life which suddenly means the old routines of economic life, the assumed norms no longer hold true and then it's about who can use the power they have to the greatest effect and gain the most. A period of significantly higher inflation and higher profits is a power move by the capitalist and that's the root cause. The counterproposal is increased strength of workers to instantly seize that margin back or a more abstract government intervention to start putting hard limits on prices or profits and so end the motivation for the capitalist. Also the logic behind increasing interest rates to stop inflation doesn't have increased unemployment as a side effect - it's the direct cause of reducing inflation. The central bank toolkit of controlling interest rates is based on the logic of the Phillips curve which says that at a certain level of high employment there is an inflationary pressure and so increasing unemployment removes that pressure and causes inflation to be lower, it's the damage to business which is a side effect not unemployment. It has an inflation target and it achieves the target by supposing it knows the NAIRU of the economy - the (Non Accelerating Inflation) (Rate of Unemployment) which it tries to cause. namesake has issued a correction as of 20:30 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 20:26
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namesake posted:Wages can only ever squeeze profits, not increase prices unless there are no profits at all because wages are a cost of production and so will reduce profit margin rather than spill out to the price. A wage-cost spiral assumes that businesses are determined and able to retain their total profits by then charging higher final prices but that can only be true if there is a change in the power relationship between buyers and sellers like an increase in monopoly power meaning the seller can start extracting higher profits because there are less alternatives or there's a general unmooring of economic life which suddenly means the old routines of economic life, the assumed norms no longer hold true and then it's about who can use the power they have to the greatest effect and gain the most. A period of significantly higher inflation and higher profits is a power move by the capitalist and that's the root cause. What percentage of businesses operating expenses on average are wages?
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Apr 6, 2023 20:27
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https://www.post-gazette.com/business/career-workplace/2023/04/06/americans-working-less-pandemic-remote-hybrid-covid/stories/202304060086quote:Americans are spending less time working than they did before the pandemic. That’s good for many of them, but it’s not necessarily great for the inflation-fighting Federal Reserve. lol people work more and make more - price go up! people work less and make less - price go up!
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Apr 6, 2023 20:31
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‘We may be looking at the end of capitalism’: One of the world’s oldest and largest investment banks warns ‘Greedflation’ has gone too far https://fortune.com/2023/04/05/end-of-capitalism-inflation-greedflation-societe-generale-corporate-profits/ posted:
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Apr 6, 2023 20:32
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Father Wendigo posted:
who could have predicted this???
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Apr 6, 2023 20:34
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