Trad Games Chat: squabbled over drafts, forked, and disbanded

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Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

There is actually a 5e spell which references alignment, or at least can be cast so as to: Sepia Snake Sigil.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 08:22

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# ? May 24, 2024 04:06

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Ferrinus posted:

There is actually a 5e spell which references alignment, or at least can be cast so as to: Sepia Snake Sigil.

I can't find a reference to a 5E version of that spell, either on D&D Beyond or via a Google search.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 09:06

drrockso20: May 6, 2013; Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

What are some games where the PCs are explicitly designed to be criminals

Besides Blades in the Dark

Isn't that basically the core assumption of Shadowrun, definitely is the case for CY-BORG

# ? Apr 28, 2023 09:11

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

BattleMaster posted:

I can't find a reference to a 5E version of that spell, either on D&D Beyond or via a Google search.

Ah, I hosed up; it's not Sepia Snake Sigil (which isn't even in 5e), it's Glyph of Warding:

"You can further refine the trigger so the spell activates only under certain circumstances or according to physical characteristics (such as height or weight), creature kind (for example, the ward could be set to affect aberrations or drow), or alignment. You can also set conditions for creatures that don�t trigger the glyph, such as those who say a certain password."

Canonical alignment detector! And you don't even have to make it work by blasting the triggering character with 5d8 acid or something since you can just encode Prestidigitation or something instead.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 10:29

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

Perhaps the thing I like least about D&D is this prevailing technocratic attitude of [thing in fantasy novel] > [thing must be spell effect] > [spell gets codified in game] > [spell is made available to players] > [players find the obvious nonstandard use and make it standard]

# ? Apr 28, 2023 10:51

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

My Lovely Horse posted:

Perhaps the thing I like least about D&D is this prevailing technocratic attitude of [thing in fantasy novel] > [thing must be spell effect] > [spell gets codified in game] > [spell is made available to players] > [players find the obvious nonstandard use and make it standard]

Are there any games (apart from the Nain REIGN supplement) that have decent do it yourself spell rules? Not just comprehensive lists of possible effects with points attached but also the surrounding structure needed to make them easy to use in-game?

# ? Apr 28, 2023 11:01

drrockso20: May 6, 2013; Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Splicer posted:

Are there any games (apart from the Nain REIGN supplement) that have decent do it yourself spell rules? Not just comprehensive lists of possible effects with points attached but also the surrounding structure needed to make them easy to use in-game?

Whitehack has a pretty decent way of handling it where the exact effect of a "miracle" is left up to the player to decide but the stronger the effect(or how many possible effects it can have) will raise up how much it costs to use(so a miracle that's just shooting singular small fireball probably isn't too expensive but a miracle that generates a large room clearing fireball or one that gives a more widespread "can control and generate fire" effect is going to be a lot more expensive)

Or at least that's how I roughly remember it working, been a bit since I last actually read either of my copies(as I have both a 2nd edition and 3rd edition copy of the game)

# ? Apr 28, 2023 11:16

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Splicer posted:

Are there any games (apart from the Nain REIGN supplement) that have decent do it yourself spell rules? Not just comprehensive lists of possible effects with points attached but also the surrounding structure needed to make them easy to use in-game?

Mage the Awakening?

# ? Apr 28, 2023 11:17

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Splicer posted:

Are there any games (apart from the Nain REIGN supplement) that have decent do it yourself spell rules? Not just comprehensive lists of possible effects with points attached but also the surrounding structure needed to make them easy to use in-game?

this might not be exactly what you're looking for, but have you considered the HERO System?

# ? Apr 28, 2023 11:24

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Splicer posted:

Are there any games (apart from the Nain REIGN supplement) that have decent do it yourself spell rules? Not just comprehensive lists of possible effects with points attached but also the surrounding structure needed to make them easy to use in-game?

Ars magica

# ? Apr 28, 2023 12:42

Tosk: Feb 22, 2013; I am sorry. I have no vices for you to exploit.

mllaneza posted:

RQ 2e was better than any D&D version available in 1979, and the gap hasn't closed since. :post:

I honestly haven't played any other Runequest games but Mythras definitely has a lot of Gloranthan DNA in general, even since the rebranding. I don't doubt that it's better than D&D, at least for a lot of tables. There seem to be so, so many people trying to shoehorn their campaigns into the structure offered by D&D when it would be better served by other games.

Splicer posted:

Are there any games (apart from the Nain REIGN supplement) that have decent do it yourself spell rules? Not just comprehensive lists of possible effects with points attached but also the surrounding structure needed to make them easy to use in-game?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record giving I posted about it one page ago, I feel like Mythras does this really well. The very first section of the chapter on Magic is about how you can pick and choose any of the 5 different "flavors" of magic to plug into your setting depending on how modular or how fantastic you want your game to be. These 5 systems are folk magic (the kind of day to day stuff that villagers might use to tidy their homes, or a hunter to sharpen their tools), animism (everything related to the spirit world, and binding spirits to fetishes), mysticism (basically wuxia stuff), theism (divine magic) and sorcery.

I think Sorcery would be the example closest to what you're looking for, so I'm going to just quote some text from that chapter to give an idea of what I mean.

quote:

Manipulating the Cosmos

The practice of sorcery requires two core skills, Invocation and Shaping. Invocation reflects the depth of knowledge concerning a particular philosophy or school of sorcery; whilst Shaping is the skill of the sorcerer to manipulate the parameters of a spell, so that can be cast in a flexible and innovative manner.

Invocation (INT x2)
Invocation represents a sorcerer�s ability to successfully cast spells learned from a particular source, be that a grimoire, mentor, school, extra-planar demon or even an ancient artefact. The precise scope of what the skill covers depends upon the campaign setting, but each incidence of Invocation must be assigned to a specific type or wellspring of sorcery. The skill encompasses a plethora of magical principles from comprehending the philosophy underlying how that type of sorcery works; to being able to achieve the necessary mental state to manipulate reality. As the value of this skill increases, so does the capability of the sorcerer to create greater changes. The Intensity of a sorcery spell is equal to one tenth of the Invocation skill used to cast it.

Shaping (INT+POW)
In their default form, sorcery spells are relatively feeble in scope. Shaping is the method used to change the parameters of a sorcery spell so that it can be wrought to meet certain requirements, such as increasing its range or duration. Once the base concepts of Shaping are known, they can be applied to any spell known by the sorcerer, no matter its school or tradition. Thus sorcerers normally need only learn a single Shaping skill (see Restricting Components of Sorcery Spells page 165). Shaping is never rolled against when casting sorcery, rather it acts like a governor to limit the degree of modification which can be applied to a spell. The maximum level of alteration is equal to one tenth of the value of the Shaping skill. Thus a sorcerer with Shaping 47% would be able to apply 5 points to shape the parameters of any
sorcery spell he cast. These points may be divided up amongst any of the following components to optimise the spell as desired:

- Combine: Used to fuse together several spells into a single
casting
- Duration: Used to extend the period of time the spell�s effects
last
- Magnitude: Used to penetrate magical defences or resist magical
attacks
- Range: Used to increase the distance a spell can be cast over
- Targets: Used to increase the number of targets affected by
the spell

Then, to give two examples of random Sorcery spell ideas that the book gives around which you can hang these ideas:

Wrack spell posted:

Wrack (Substance or Harm)
Concentration, Resist (Evade) ((these are the saving throws))

Wrack enables a sorcerer to harm opponents with deadly bolts or waves of sorcerous energy. On his Turn as a Combat Action, he may launch a magical attack against the target or targets, using his Invocation skill as the attack roll, which may be resisted with Evade. Successful attacks strike a random location, the Intensity of the spell denoting the damage it inflicts. Worn armour does not protect, but natural or magical Armour Points reduce damage as normal.

(table describing damage)

The caster must concentrate to launch a Wrack attack, but can let the spell drop into dormancy to perform other actions in-between each magical assault. Each variant of this spell inflicts damage in a different manner, according to the school from which it was learned. For example Wrack (Darkness) taught by the Stygian Path would strike the target with serpent-like tendrils of freezing shadow, whereas Wrack (Death) learned from the Guardians of the Grave, may cause a victim�s limbs to rot with necrotic lesions.

Animate spell posted:

Animate (Substance)
Concentration, Resist (Special)

Animate quite literally invests an inanimate object with a semblance of life, permitting it to move under its own power. Each variant of the spell affects a specific type of substance, which can be fairly broad in scope. For example wood, stone, fire, darkness, rope, fabric, and so on. The sorcerer can animate an object with a maximum SIZ of three times the spell�s Intensity. Insubstantial substances such as air, fire, darkness or clouds are instead measured in terms of volume, with the sorcerer able to affect a number of cubic metres equal to the spell�s Intensity. The animated object gains a default Movement Rate of 1m, which may be incremented by assigning points of Intensity (on a one for one basis) to movement rather than to the amount of SIZ or Volume affected.

Providing they have some degree of flexibility or the ability to extrude portions of themselves, animated objects may perform complex physical manipulations. These are performed by using the sorcerer�s own skills, reduced by one difficulty grade. If combined with the appropriate Sculpt spell (see Shaping), the sorcerer can achieve much finer control and ignore this penalty. Where necessary, treat the object as having a Damage Bonus based on twice its SIZ, or as an elemental of equal volume.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 12:51

Thanlis: Mar 17, 2011

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

What are some games where the PCs are explicitly designed to be criminals

Besides Blades in the Dark

Honey Heist, Dusk City Outlaws, Spire, Cartel, Black Crusade, Leverage, Nahual, Kill Puppies for Satan.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 13:48

Vulpes Vulpes: Apr 28, 2013; "...for you, it is all over...!"

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

What are some games where the PCs are explicitly designed to be criminals

Besides Blades in the Dark

Spirit of 77 doesn't exactly position you as criminals, but every PC accrues Heat points as a consequence of being righteous dudes, and the GM spends them to put the cops or other manifestations of the Man on your rear end.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 13:57

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

Arguably every World of Darkness game posits you as criminals too.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 14:05

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

My Lovely Horse posted:

why is it the Orc Problem anyway and not the Dwarf Problem or the Gold Dragon Problem, having no choice but to act good is some terrifying Clockwork Orange poo poo

Because the Orc Problem is that there's this group of creatures who are roughly shaped like people and might be described as doing things people would do, but you should never treat them as people and instead kill them and take their territory and worldly possessions. This is because ~~you're a colonialist motherfucker~~ it says in the rules that they're evil.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 14:16

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

What are some games where the PCs are explicitly designed to be criminals

Besides Blades in the Dark

Esoteric Enterprises

# ? Apr 28, 2023 14:17

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

Arivia posted:

Esoteric Enterprises

It's nice to see a good Quaker game designer putting their beliefs (about cops) into their work.

90s Cringe Rock fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Apr 28, 2023

# ? Apr 28, 2023 14:22

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Also uh post-Greyhawk D&D counts I think lol

# ? Apr 28, 2023 14:22

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

Spirit of 77 doesn't exactly position you as criminals, but every PC accrues Heat points as a consequence of being righteous dudes, and the GM spends them to put the cops or other manifestations of the Man on your rear end.

Being in opposition to the Man doesn't make you a criminal. However, luxuriously eating a Twinkie in the sample text may, for some reason.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 14:46

KingKalamari: Aug 24, 2007; Fuzzy dice, bongos in the back
My ship of love is ready to attack

Glazius posted:

Because the Orc Problem is that there's this group of creatures who are roughly shaped like people and might be described as doing things people would do, but you should never treat them as people and instead kill them and take their territory and worldly possessions. This is because ~~you're a colonialist motherfucker~~ it says in the rules that they're evil.

And don't forget that those creatures shaped like people who it is morally justifiable to kill and rob are frequently and repeatedly described in official material using the same terms colonialists used to dehumanize the people they subjugated!

# ? Apr 28, 2023 15:23

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

Spirit of 77 doesn't exactly position you as criminals, but every PC accrues Heat points as a consequence of being righteous dudes, and the GM spends them to put the cops or other manifestations of the Man on your rear end.

That's amazing. I love it. Spend Heat points to sic Boss Hogg on some good ol' boys never meanin' no harm.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 15:25

Vulpes Vulpes: Apr 28, 2013; "...for you, it is all over...!"

Dawgstar posted:

That's amazing. I love it. Spend Heat points to sic Boss Hogg on some good ol' boys never meanin' no harm.

Yeah, it's a great evergreen option when you can't think of anything for a 7-9 and don't want to stall the action to mull it over.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 15:28

Traveller: Jan 6, 2012; WHIM AND FOPPERY

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

What are some games where the PCs are explicitly designed to be criminals

Besides Blades in the Dark

There was this free RPG on Drivethru (Dogtown? Something like that) where the premise was that PCs had just left jail and had 90 days to get $100,000 to buy into a business opportunity that would set them for life. Never looked into it more but a built-in campaign sounds neat.

Also, in the original In Nomine Satanis/Magna Veritas, demon parties have this GTA-style Heat mechanic where the more blatant their actions are on Earth the more they get hounded down by the police. This doesn't happen to angel parties, because literally every single law enforcement and security agency in Earth is in Heaven's pocket (God and his angels are Huge Assholes in INS/MV)

# ? Apr 28, 2023 17:23

Bucnasti: Aug 14, 2012; I'll Fetch My Sarcasm Robes

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

Yeah, it's a great evergreen option when you can't think of anything for a 7-9 and don't want to stall the action to mull it over.

I cannot think of many games of So77 that I have run that did not involve a police chase.
Most of them start in the midst of one.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 17:46

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Chandler's Law as a risk/reward mechanic is something I wish I'd thought of ages ago.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 18:12

Toshimo: Aug 23, 2012; He's outta line...

But he's right!

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Chandler's Law as a risk/reward mechanic is something I wish I'd thought of ages ago.

Wait until you find out about Joven's Law.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 18:20

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

What are some games where the PCs are explicitly designed to be criminals

Besides Blades in the Dark

Shadowrun, Thieves Guild

# ? Apr 28, 2023 19:42

Nissin Cup Nudist: Sep 3, 2011; Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land

Thanlis posted:

Honey Heist, Dusk City Outlaws, Spire, Cartel, Black Crusade, Leverage, Nahual, Kill Puppies for Satan.

Dusk City Outlaws seems neat. I suppose I was looking for more gangster/organized crime stuff rather than generic criminal

# ? Apr 28, 2023 19:47

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

Dusk City Outlaws seems neat. I suppose I was looking for more gangster/organized crime stuff rather than generic criminal

The old TSR game 'Gangbusters' had the players be the crimelords in the 1920s. FGU had 'Gangster!' as well

Humbug Scoolbus fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Apr 28, 2023

# ? Apr 28, 2023 20:20

Thanlis: Mar 17, 2011

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

Dusk City Outlaws seems neat. I suppose I was looking for more gangster/organized crime stuff rather than generic criminal

Cartel definitely also fits, then. The rest of my list less so.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 20:26

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

Was going back to look for a different reply, but holy moly that's a good eye.

I am good, thank you!

# ? Apr 29, 2023 01:55

Ego Trip: Aug 28, 2012; A tenacious little mouse!

Bucnasti posted:

I cannot think of many games of So77 that I have run that did not involve a police chase.
Most of them start in the midst of one.

How many times have the police been chasing a beer truck with big foot in the back?
That's my one experience with So77.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 02:23

Vulpes Vulpes: Apr 28, 2013; "...for you, it is all over...!"

My character had to let his chimp sidekick take the wheel of his 1970 Roadrunner so he could leap onto another car to fight a g-man, I think that probably counts.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 02:34

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

My character had to let his chimp sidekick take the wheel of his 1970 Roadrunner so he could leap onto another car to fight a g-man, I think that probably counts.

How'd he do?

# ? Apr 29, 2023 03:11

Bucnasti: Aug 14, 2012; I'll Fetch My Sarcasm Robes

Ego Trip posted:

How many times have the police been chasing a beer truck with big foot in the back?
That's my one experience with So77.

A lot.
"Who's Idea was it to steal the beer truck?" is my go-to start for a new campaign.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 05:17

Vulpes Vulpes: Apr 28, 2013; "...for you, it is all over...!"

Nessus posted:

How'd he do?

There's a g-man shaped stain on a Florida highway to this very day.

Edit: Oh, the chimp- she held it together, surprisingly.

Vulpes Vulpes fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Apr 29, 2023

# ? Apr 29, 2023 15:45

Papa Was A Video Toaster: Jan 9, 2011

I'm looking for something written on adapting a novel into a game world. At like a philosophical level how does it differ from a world that is original/doesn't wear its influences on its sleeve?

The novel I'd like to adapt is After the Revolution by Robert Evans. It's a near future sci-fi tale of politics and war in a post second civil war east Texas.

I've never GMed before but my novice instinct is to establish what events take place in the book and its backstory as canon and then work with the players to expand that canon into a timeline before allowing them to choose a point in time to begin their adventure. A problem I'm already seeing with this approach is it could rob players of agency to affect the broader world, OTOH they'd be a squad sized element in an active warzone, IDK how much they could be expected to accomplish.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 17:06

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

Papa Was A Video Toaster posted:

I'm looking for something written on adapting a novel into a game world. At like a philosophical level how does it differ from a world that is original/doesn't wear its influences on its sleeve?

The novel I'd like to adapt is After the Revolution by Robert Evans. It's a near future sci-fi tale of politics and war in a post second civil war east Texas.

I've never GMed before but my novice instinct is to establish what events take place in the book and its backstory as canon and then work with the players to expand that canon into a timeline before allowing them to choose a point in time to begin their adventure. A problem I'm already seeing with this approach is it could rob players of agency to affect the broader world, OTOH they'd be a squad sized element in an active warzone, IDK how much they could be expected to accomplish.

I think the first question you need to think about is what kind of story you're trying to tell and then think about what tools would support that. Who are the protagonists going to be? It's gonna be very different games if you assume everyone's going to be a cyborg murder machine like Roland, or everyone is out of their element like Sasha and Manny or if they're a mix. You can totally have a good game where everyone is a combat monster, nobody is or you can have a mix and match, but all of those are best done in different games.

By default and considering you've never done this before, I'd grab a copy of Apocalypse World and read through that as a good base.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 17:50

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Papa Was A Video Toaster posted:

I'm looking for something written on adapting a novel into a game world. At like a philosophical level how does it differ from a world that is original/doesn't wear its influences on its sleeve?

The novel I'd like to adapt is After the Revolution by Robert Evans. It's a near future sci-fi tale of politics and war in a post second civil war east Texas.

I've never GMed before but my novice instinct is to establish what events take place in the book and its backstory as canon and then work with the players to expand that canon into a timeline before allowing them to choose a point in time to begin their adventure. A problem I'm already seeing with this approach is it could rob players of agency to affect the broader world, OTOH they'd be a squad sized element in an active warzone, IDK how much they could be expected to accomplish.

This novel looks pretty awesome, and while you should absolutely read Apocalypse World, you might check out Cyberpunk RED. I'm not even sure this novel would be incompatible with that game, or indeed, with actual canonical Cyberpunk world-timeline. I guess 12,000 confirmed kills is kind of high.

# ? Apr 30, 2023 04:31

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# ? May 24, 2024 04:06

Papa Was A Video Toaster: Jan 9, 2011

wtf. why did I pay 20 doll hairs for this?

# ? Apr 30, 2023 05:03

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Trad Games Chat: squabbled over drafts, forked, and disbanded

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