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Nah. Some people are just terminally lib-brained.
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Aug 4, 2023 10:49
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There's blood in the water
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Aug 4, 2023 10:49
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Tiger Millionaire posted:Jesus I don't agree with the means tested stuff over just giving people money for what they need but a lot of you are deliberately going out of your way to uncharitably read into the guys intent What does intent matter, the food stamp system is insane and defending it sucks and should be mocked
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Aug 4, 2023 11:24
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"What if they use the money for alcohol or drugs!" has always felt like a pretty weak excuse too, like I've already accepted that I'm gonna be homeless at some point so when I'm eventually having to sleep in an alley, I'll be real, I'd be happier if I could just get some weed too to help me conk out or pass some time easier, what else am I gonna do, go to the same place that wouldn't help me when I was homed because I'm a big autismo with brain problems, but my history of having breakdowns at every job I've ever worked and constant struggle to get by wasn't enough to get me some kind of benefits even then? And I mean someone else already said it too, but like I regularly enough hang out with some of the homeless people in my city, they already do pawn food stamps and trade benefit card allowances for something like some beers and hot dinner when they can. Sorry for partial E/N there or whatever but eh.
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Aug 4, 2023 11:31
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The SNAP provision against food that's warm at the point of sale always felt particularly cruel to me. They're doing it to stop kids getting GUBBERMINT MCDONALDS but what about a rotisserie chicken for the family or even god forbid a pastie.
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Aug 4, 2023 11:41
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Junkozeyne posted:What does intent matter, the food stamp system is insane and defending it sucks and should be mocked The entire conversation stemmed from agreeing that this country has a massive failing when it comes to providing for it's most needy, calling someone a poor hating Tory councillor is an insane response for someone's (misguided imo) idea of a solution
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Aug 4, 2023 11:47
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Means testing is nanny state bullshit. Let people have personal responsibility.
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Aug 4, 2023 12:55
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Tesseraction posted:but what about a rotisserie chicken for the family or even god forbid a pastie. Maybe a week ago I was hanging out with some of the homeless dudes I know at a covered park table just chatting poo poo and smoking some cigs together, some guy walked up with a big bag with a family dinner from a chicken place nearby and said like, "I saw you guys around here a lot of the day, please take care" and gave it to us, I'm eating alright so I just got like, some fries and and a wing, but the dudes actually living out here were glad to just have something hot and fresh (Fast food fresh but who cares) to eat, it's definitely a cruelty thing hiding behind "Gubmint tbone steaks" and all that crap.
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Aug 4, 2023 13:06
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yeah it’s totally bullshit but, the one great thing about the bullshit is that the funds roll over from one month to the next so you can save up some of them and then go and buy a leg of lamb at the fancy grocery store and look dead into the eyes of the old wealthy oval office behind watching you do it and smile 
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Aug 4, 2023 15:24
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i am harry posted:yeah it’s totally bullshit but, the one great thing about the bullshit is that the funds roll over from one month to the next so you can save up some of them and then go and buy a leg of lamb at the fancy grocery store and look dead into the eyes of the old wealthy oval office behind watching you do it and smile So uh, to give you an idea that yes, this is only about cruelty, it always has been.
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Aug 4, 2023 16:45
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Tiger Millionaire posted:The entire conversation stemmed from agreeing that this country has a massive failing when it comes to providing for it's most needy, calling someone a poor hating Tory councillor is an insane response for someone's (misguided imo) idea of a solution The entire conversation stemmed from a disagreement about whether money or food stamps was better. Money is always better because any attempt, even the rare well intended attempt to gatekeep the assistance people get causes more harm than it solves. Direct cash assistance is better. Even if some percent of recipients immediately use it to buy drugs and o.d., money is better. Again. Slowly. Gatekeeping assistance for the poors own good causes overall more problems than it solves. It is also an inherently toxic mindset and anyone who suggests it, even if they really do have good intentions, should be mocked.
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Aug 4, 2023 17:07
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That one guy had done research he didn't post that says means testing is good actually
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Aug 4, 2023 17:12
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Fell Mood posted:The entire conversation stemmed from a disagreement about whether money or food stamps was better. Money is always better because any attempt, even the rare well intended attempt to gatekeep the assistance people get causes more harm than it solves. Direct cash assistance is better. Even if some percent of recipients immediately use it to buy drugs and o.d., money is better. Honestly I completely agree, for every ""abuser"" these means tested systems stop, it makes accessing that help more poo poo for everyone else who needs it, not to mention the time and money it takes to develop these systems, it's a waste at every approach.
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Aug 4, 2023 18:13
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Anyway I'm off the clock now so I'm going to do something enjoyable rather than talk about politics on the internet, like drink.
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Aug 4, 2023 18:14
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Tiger Millionaire posted:Honestly I completely agree, for every ""abuser"" these means tested systems stop, it makes accessing that help more poo poo for everyone else who needs it, not to mention the time and money it takes to develop these systems, it's a waste at every approach. Making it poo poo for everyone is the point, abusing welfare queens is just a poor cover
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Aug 4, 2023 21:10
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All this is in the reality of Britain which has neither universal income nor food stamps and where a non-negligible amount of people go malnourished.
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Aug 5, 2023 05:00
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Jon Pod Van Damm posted:Means testing is nanny state bullshit. Let people have personal responsibility. dunno about anyone else but personally it’s not about means testing, it’s about the other poo poo that needs doing. we need huge interventions and I don’t care how nanny state they are. shooting galleries with free clean diamorphine that won’t give you ruinous ulcers that never heal. reconstruction of meaningful jobs and activity programs. spending shitloads of money on social care placements and assisted living. much more aggressive action on domestic abuse or at least more, better shelters. crippling gambling companies with regulations. most of all, social work and family/CAMHS mental health that’s actually funded so we can try to avoid so many peoples brains being permanently damaged before they’ve had a chance in life. yes and HO because it’s easy to say just give people personal responsibility (in a country full of completely broken places that can gently caress you right up regardless of money) until you’re helplessly watching them die in droves of poo poo life syndrome
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Aug 5, 2023 07:07
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what if instead of doing any of that we gave the rich more money?
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Aug 5, 2023 07:33
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Shogi posted:dunno about anyone else but personally it’s not about means testing, it’s about the other poo poo that needs doing. we need huge interventions and I don’t care how nanny state they are. shooting galleries with free clean diamorphine that won’t give you ruinous ulcers that never heal. reconstruction of meaningful jobs and activity programs. spending shitloads of money on social care placements and assisted living. much more aggressive action on domestic abuse or at least more, better shelters. crippling gambling companies with regulations. most of all, social work and family/CAMHS mental health that’s actually funded so we can try to avoid so many peoples brains being permanently damaged before they’ve had a chance in life. yes and HO Sure, no disagreement, but still doesn't mean you should invent money but worse on the off chance someone might buy drugs instead.
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Aug 5, 2023 11:01
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If someone does want drugs, they will just sell the food stamps. Keep it simple. That and legalise and tax all drugs.
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Aug 5, 2023 11:03
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what gets lost here is that yes, a lot of people will go and spend direct cash assistance on drugs or booze. this is undeniable and if you think this isn’t the case then I’m sorry but you’re doing some patronising lionisation of the poor poo poo. the reason it’s still best is that, if you’re the type of person who’s going to spend all their food money on drugs and booze, you’re going to do that anyway either by trading away the ‘vouchers’ or whatever, or you’re going to go on the rob. the argument that we should ‘trust people’ isn’t because they’re necessarily going to act in their best interests, but because they’re going to do what they want anyway.
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Aug 5, 2023 12:38
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Jakabite posted:what gets lost here is that yes, a lot of people will go and spend direct cash assistance on drugs or booze. this is undeniable and if you think this isn’t the case then I’m sorry but you’re doing some patronising lionisation of the poor poo poo. the reason it’s still best is that, if you’re the type of person who’s going to spend all their food money on drugs and booze, you’re going to do that anyway either by trading away the ‘vouchers’ or whatever, or you’re going to go on the rob.
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Aug 5, 2023 13:22
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Aug 5, 2023 13:30
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Starbucks posted:If someone does want drugs, they will just sell the food stamps. Keep it simple. That and legalise and tax all drugs. it was honestly no problem to convert food stamps into cash by doing someone else’s grocery shop for them
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Aug 5, 2023 14:54
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A Buttery Pastry posted:this is why you need blockchain food stamps Well I was going to say if you want to go whole hog then yes digital ID and you can only get food using food stamps. Like rationing, that’ll make the boomers happy or keep going on about how they grew up with it. A big ol’ toofer that one, obesity crisis and food insecurity solved by a single draconian measure.
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Aug 5, 2023 16:11
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Starbucks posted:Well I was going to say if you want to go whole hog then yes digital ID and you can only get food using food stamps. Like rationing, that’ll make the boomers happy or keep going on about how they grew up with it.
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Aug 5, 2023 16:35
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Bryter posted:You stand accused of both having a cat and pursuing a hobby while ranked Social Grade D, citizen, how do you plead? you can get misanthropic about this but it's really just a function of people regurgitating the right wing propaganda they're fed daily. the average person's 'beliefs' are largely inchoate with the main differentiating factor being 'is this happening to me, someone i know, or someone else?' ask the average person for their qualitative opinion on the homeless for instance and watch them tie themselves up in knots trying to express the unspoken party line that homeless people must have done something to deserve it because if they didn't they wouldn't be homeless jacksbrat posted:Holy poo poo those numbers on Just Stop Oil. I thought there would be a bit more middle class kayfabe of "well their hearts are in the right place but their methods are misguided" but it's straight up almost half of respondents saying they're a force for bad. again the result of a massively successful right wing propaganda campaign. if the non-logged-in youtube frontpage is anything to go by, mainstream news and social media is full to bursting with universally negative wailing about them. i think it really resonates with people because everyone is one step away from reactionary fuckwit when they get behind the wheel of a car. just pure lizard brained id with no conscious thought beyond WHY ARE THEY STOPPING ME FROM GETTING WHERE I NEED TO GO Generic Monk has issued a correction as of 17:49 on Aug 5, 2023 |
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Aug 5, 2023 17:40
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driving’s a funny one because the road network only functions because people do stuff like let each other in and generally cooperate to make the whole experience better, but also makes anyone doing it about this close to apoplectic rage. and it is genuinely infuriating being stuck there unable to move. I’m generally a pretty chill person but when someone’s hogging the right hand lane down the m6 at 65mph? Get out my way you stupid loving oval office. it’s a world of contrasts
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Aug 5, 2023 21:34
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The most important thing as a driver is to be predictable, other than that it’s pretty simple. There are a lot of unpredictable people out there - they mostly drive Vauxhalls.
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Aug 5, 2023 22:20
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The funny thing is all the propaganda about just stop oil and similiar protests harming the cause, like what harm can it possible do when emissions are still rising
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Aug 5, 2023 22:34
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even if you could hit a big red button and eliminate 100% of CO2 production today, what's already been emitted will persist in the atmosphere and maintain the warming effect for hundreds of years.quote:The CO2 we emit today will stay above us reflecting heat for hundreds of years. This means that, even if we stop all new CO2 emissions tomorrow, it will take many lifetimes before the warming effect of our past emissions fades away.
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Aug 5, 2023 22:50
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I remember reading that if you stopped completely it'd actually cause even more warming temporarily but I forget why exactly
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Aug 5, 2023 23:00
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Sulphur emissions iirc. Which has led to some complete psychos saying to solve global warming we simply need to outrace greenhouse gases with also pumping shitloads of reverse greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.
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Aug 5, 2023 23:02
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Communist Thoughts posted:I remember reading that if you stopped completely it'd actually cause even more warming temporarily but I forget why exactly Probably in relation to "committed warming" - couple of links here. Sort of like if you put your foot on the brake, the car continues to travel for a while. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-020-00955-x https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached/
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Aug 5, 2023 23:07
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IIRC we saw a mini version of that in 2020 when all the planes stopped flying for a while.
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Aug 5, 2023 23:11
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kecske posted:even if you could hit a big red button and eliminate 100% of CO2 production today, what's already been emitted will persist in the atmosphere and maintain the warming effect for hundreds of years. we will see this being used as a reason to continue using fossil fuels
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Aug 5, 2023 23:33
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Communist Thoughts posted:I remember reading that if you stopped completely it'd actually cause even more warming temporarily but I forget why exactly gonadic io posted:Sulphur emissions iirc. Which has led to some complete psychos saying to solve global warming we simply need to outrace greenhouse gases with also pumping shitloads of reverse greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Of course it's not as simple as aerosols = less global warming, because they're part of the overall climate change issue, and might be having severe impacts on the water cycle. Less solar radiation on the surface = weaker monsoons. The "let's just shield the Earth from the sun" solution might exacerbate droughts in monsoon regions, which are home to far more than half the world's population. Something which might already had happened once, eventually triggering the Live Aid concerts.
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Aug 6, 2023 05:33
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A restriction of sulphur emitting fuels for ocean vessels which started in 2020 has been accused of being responsible for the massive ocean temperature changes this year as it's meant there's less clouds over the oceans. Seems like we've already broken Earth everyone.
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Aug 6, 2023 09:46
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namesake posted:A restriction of sulphur emitting fuels for ocean vessels which started in 2020 has been accused of being responsible for the massive ocean temperature changes this year as it's meant there's less clouds over the oceans. Can we revert to an earlier save
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Aug 6, 2023 10:34
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title rules
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Aug 6, 2023 10:41
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