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latinotwink1997 posted:The Foundation now has its own FTL ships including the ones used by the priests. It didn’t look like Hober went to sleep before he suddenly shot off to wherever. The sleep thing no longer seems relevant and was only used to initially make Gaal seem unique. I don't think so. When the two clerics and hober came back to Terminus they were asleep in front (I think) and he was asleep tied up in the back and brother constant told him 'sorry we don't have an extra bed or whatever'
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Aug 14, 2023 13:39
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Yeah, the clerics put little green patches on their hands which put them to sleep before jumping.
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Aug 14, 2023 14:07
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Maybe the foundation has a form of FTL that doesn't require sleeping.
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Aug 14, 2023 21:40
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Cojawfee posted:Maybe the foundation has a form of FTL that doesn't require sleeping. They probably do, or will soon. That was a pretty central theme in ~the books~ that the empire was stagnating while the Foundation was leaping way ahead of them technologically
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Aug 14, 2023 21:56
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What's not from the books (that I can recall) is any of the weird FTL rules or Spacers or anything. The show seems to be doing its own thing with all that. Gaal being able to stay awake almost certainly has something to do with her being psychic. Seems likely the Spacers are psychic. Psychic powers being a requirement to get FTL to work, or even something developed to make FTL work better, seems like the direction this story is going. Of course the Foundation is reviving the old technology that used computers, rather than psychics (assuming Spacers are psychic), so they end up with some more flexibility.
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Aug 14, 2023 22:20
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Eiba posted:What's not from the books (that I can recall) is any of the weird FTL rules or Spacers or anything. The show seems to be doing its own thing with all that. If I recall the only issue with FTL that affected some people was the unpleasant feeling upon entering hyperspace and leaving real space (I always imagined it like a roller coaster drop), but there was no requirement for being unconscious. Computers were so primitive you had to plot your FTL jumps with slide rules and hand calculations, at least until the last 2 Foundation books when they got a little loose with the restrictions on computers. Spacers were the first wave of humanity expanding off Earth so idk wtf is the point of this interpretation other than someone read Dune and was like hell yeah we need some
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Aug 15, 2023 00:03
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I'm rewatching season one So no one ever found out who exactly bombed the star bridge or why??
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Aug 15, 2023 04:19
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Boris Galerkin posted:There is no psychic child god or god at all. Those people are just psychics and people mistaken them as gods. The child god was just a projection, smoke and mirrors. stephenthinkpad posted:How does the original emperor "wake up", you mean Demerzel flashes the extra large firmware into Day's brain and he becomes Cleon 1.0? And after he finishes his job Demerzel restores Cleon 14 or whatever back? Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:They're clones and their name is Cleon which is just the word clone very slightly rearranged Penitent posted:Does Empire also have technology to do null fields and to store human consciousness inside of objects like the prime radiant or Seldon's crypt? Mr. Apollo posted:Yeah, I’m guessing it’ll be a HAL-like situation where she has a secret directive that starts to conflict with her started directives of keeping the 3 amigos alive and safe. Eiba posted:Of course the Foundation is reviving the old technology that used computers, rather than psychics (assuming Spacers are psychic), so they end up with some more flexibility.
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Aug 15, 2023 04:55
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I've read the books. I see this show as a whole different thing that uses elements from the books to tell a new story. I don't know why people post book things in this thread, it's fuckin stupid.
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Aug 15, 2023 05:04
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Tiggum posted:And why did the fake god have no shadow? It was, presumably, a psychic projection so shouldn't it have looked as real as their minds could make it? Presumably because, yeah, that's as real as they could make it. The fake boyfriend also had flaws (the weight inconsistencies) but those flaws are easily overlooked by most observers thanks to psychic manipulation.
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Aug 15, 2023 05:06
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Open Source Idiom posted:Presumably because, yeah, that's as real as they could make it. The fake boyfriend also had flaws (the weight inconsistencies) but those flaws are easily overlooked by most observers thanks to psychic manipulation. The weight thing makes sense (aside from all the completely reasonable explanations that Salvor and Gaal came up with at the time) because the computer was reporting the guy's stats accurately since it had no mind to be manipulated by the psychics. The shadow is different because it should be just as easy to make an illusion of a shadow as it is to make an illusion of a solid body to cast the shadow. The only explanation is that whoever was controlling the illusion somehow forgot shadows are a thing and didn't include one.
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Aug 15, 2023 06:36
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I think it's setting up that holographic projections cannot project shadows as a future plot point
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Aug 15, 2023 06:50
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Like I don't think it's fair of the audience to poke holes where there are none just because we haven't been given the rules or limits of the system (or, uh, any information, to be honest). If they do have clearly designed rules around the system it comes off like some guy from the 1400s poking holes at a modern physician because they're washing their hands, if that analogy makes sense. The counterpoint of the "wait why dont they just make them see a shadow" where you're making up rules of the fictional system, is refusing to suppose rules where none exist and using that to poke holes, like the Star Wars nerds getting angry without taking a second to reason "well people stand up inside of starships so it has to have an internal gravity imparting momentum" or "it's the gravity well of the planet/star destroyer" or even "Maybe other people dont slam ships at lightspeed because they aren't suicidal and it would gently caress up all the hyperspace routes tout suite" alexandriao fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Aug 15, 2023 |
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Aug 15, 2023 06:52
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Tiggum posted:The weight thing makes sense (aside from all the completely reasonable explanations that Salvor and Gaal came up with at the time) because the computer was reporting the guy's stats accurately since it had no mind to be manipulated by the psychics. The shadow is different because it should be just as easy to make an illusion of a shadow as it is to make an illusion of a solid body to cast the shadow. The only explanation is that whoever was controlling the illusion somehow forgot shadows are a thing and didn't include one. I mean, I've seen enough bad photoshop to know that people forget shadows exist all the time, but maybe it's also more resource intensive than the psychics were capable of? Or, like Rachel House said, it's not worth the energy since most people fill those blanks in themselves. Seldon -- whose new body im guessing isn't entirely biological given that the person who gave it to him, they implied, wasn't a biological life form herself -- might also have the same advantages as the computer.
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Aug 15, 2023 06:56
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alexandriao posted:I think it's setting up that holographic projections cannot project shadows as a future plot point That’s a technology. The psychic manipulation is entirely mental. And it’s not a future plot point because it already happened. We saw the prime radiant projection’s shadow (a technology) is a bit uncanny, like it falls off too early when it goes out of range. This child god shadow thing is clearly a minor mistake by the writers because a shadow would fall into the category of visual hallucination that is as easy to mimic as anything else.
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Aug 15, 2023 12:56
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The rules have been clearly established. The entire point of the weight difference was to show they don’t have the ability to change the physical properties of anything, only gently caress directly with the brain’s sensory perception, of which they have complete control. It might not technically be a “mistake” if the writers decide shadows are somehow more complicated than faking voice/clothing/smell/whatever, but it would be real loving stupid. Anyway, hopefully it’s never mentioned again.
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Aug 15, 2023 13:05
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Tiggum posted:
that animal is going to be the Mule
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Aug 15, 2023 13:31
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Does this show ever foreshadow anything and come back to it later?
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Aug 15, 2023 14:13
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stephenthinkpad posted:Does this show ever foreshadow anything and come back to it later? I think you always know what each episode is going to be like. I’ve enjoyed the second season but it’s all very stream of consciousness.
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Aug 15, 2023 14:59
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stephenthinkpad posted:Does this show ever foreshadow anything and come back to it later? The monologue at the beginning of the first episode of the first season actually talks about everything that's happening now in the second season Apparently the people in charge of the show have an actual eight season plan not just going by the seat of their pants.
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Aug 15, 2023 18:34
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:
I feel like that plan is them going by the seat of their pants.
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Aug 15, 2023 22:24
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Apparently the people in charge of the show have an actual eight season plan not just going by the seat of their pants. I can imagine four seasons before they start to run of out ideas but Eight seasons I don't know. I am in it for the long haul as long Lee Pace stays around. Looking forward to Season 7 with Cleon the CXI newest romantic plot: can he marry his own clone.
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Aug 16, 2023 06:45
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:They're clones and their name is Cleon which is just the word clone very slightly rearranged There’s a right way to be dumb
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Aug 16, 2023 08:33
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Snowmanatee posted:The rules have been clearly established. The entire point of the weight difference was to show they don’t have the ability to change the physical properties of anything, only gently caress directly with the brain’s sensory perception, of which they have complete control. It might not technically be a “mistake” if the writers decide shadows are somehow more complicated than faking voice/clothing/smell/whatever, but it would be real loving stupid. Anyway, hopefully it’s never mentioned again. Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:I'm rewatching season one But also I thought it just ended up being 2 people from the planets they bombed.
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Aug 16, 2023 11:55
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The point is blowing up a space elevator make for good prestige television.
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Aug 16, 2023 12:41
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Listen I don't think TV shows should make you do homework but there's some solid and helpful info in the first episode of the companion podcast.
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Aug 16, 2023 15:19
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huh???
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Aug 18, 2023 05:10
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Legs Benedict posted:huh??? Yup. So, did Hober Mallow miss his exit and end up in Hyperion?
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Aug 18, 2023 06:24
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The whole "magic" of predicting patterns in Seldon's story is the cringe inducing way (stupid) writers like to portray intelligent characters. Is that really the best idea you had? He can "predict" the exact spot where space animals are running through? Come on. Also I actually prefer Asimov's absense of character work if that's how you use your TV shows time. Did we really need this super generic backstory? I'm not even sure what its supposed to tell us. Seldon is human afterall? I don't even really understand why his boss did what she did, like why was that the option she chose? And why should I care about this bland "villain" or Seldon's reaction to it... Why does everything need to be so one-dimensional and bathed in tropes, be it super generic abusive father, tragic love interest or all the messiah talk/allegories. A big theme of Foundation or better said psychohistory is the mundanity of human history. Repeating patterns and a "predictability" at a larger scale and that not every character is "special" or has a deep "dramatic" backstory is reinforcing that idea, it is the reality of the mundane. I get that it's hard to write this sort of character in a TV show because you want the "cheap" drama to pad out your story but it's just so lazy. There is just nothing "grounded" in this show and that will be to its detriment because psychohistory has never been properly established so any later attempts to show its flaws or subvert it won't really hit because it's not even properly established in the audience's mind (the show keeps treating it as mumbo jumbo magic SciFi prophecy). Instead we get the most generic "deterministic future" talk despite the fact that this is explicitly NOT what psychohistory is about and yet they chose to focus the story so much around that with Gael's vision. So we get this tired trope instead of exploring the main interesting concept of Foundation... like actually looking at and portraying systemic forces/institutions that drive society in a certain direction (which could be very topical if you tried that) but I guess that would need competent writing and you can't have characters complain about their feelings every two seconds and their personal quest as "chosen ones". Usually I wouldn't even be this "mad" about stuff like that but it's just weird to use Foundation of all SciFi material out there to tell a story that couldn't be more at odds with the generic hero's journey and you could still do it but you would need to use some creativity, not to mention how the Foundation material is the perfect opportunity to actually subvert the hero's journey trope.
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Aug 18, 2023 07:04
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They finally found a way to make the Cleon stuff interesting with the mystery of the missing memories and then all they show is more "I'm ending the genetic whatever, and I'm marrying this woman" that we've already heard about 50 times.
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Aug 18, 2023 07:16
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Listen I don't think TV shows should make you do homework but there's some solid and helpful info in the first episode of the companion podcast. Theres a companion podcast? Like its done by... the show runners? Wha???
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Aug 18, 2023 14:20
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They would benefit from starting season 3 with a top down view of the empire type deal, Gall sitting down and explaining how Psychohistory was a revelation to her, person of interest style "we have this information on people in the empire and we have so much of it we now have formulas that can predict, on the order of hundreds of years, where people will flow, how their mass actions coalesce into aingle actions", etc. I get wanting to jump into the action but this exactly — they need to establish rules for the setting
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Aug 18, 2023 14:27
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alexandriao posted:Theres a companion podcast? Yeah, most prestige TV shows have something like this nowadays. I've never listened to one before but I might give this a shot.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:04
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Ninurta posted:Yup. So, did Hober Mallow miss his exit and end up in Hyperion? Bradley Cooper has the rights currently and wants to turn the two books into one loving movie. Luckily it has stalled for a while now.
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Aug 18, 2023 18:06
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Snowmanatee posted:Yeah, most prestige TV shows have something like this nowadays. I've never listened to one before but I might give this a shot. Only one I've listened to is Station Eleven and that was definitely a big recommend if you liked the show. Obviously this isn't possible with Foundation but for one episode they had the author of the Station Eleven novel on to talk about the differences with the show.
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Aug 18, 2023 18:14
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Cojawfee posted:They finally found a way to make the Cleon stuff interesting with the mystery of the missing memories and then all they show is more "I'm ending the genetic whatever, and I'm marrying this woman" that we've already heard about 50 times. Has the show or Day ever explained the benefit of stop cloning the emperor? Like your empire is built on a one major distinctive ideology, how to you go about changing it mid course and expect the power hierarchy stay intact? It's like telling all the Egyptian farmers no building Pyramid doesn't not in fact guarantee your king a godly afterlife.
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Aug 18, 2023 18:56
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stephenthinkpad posted:Has the show or Day ever explained the benefit of stop cloning the emperor? It's a relatively recent development of a much older empire so it's more like when they wound down the pyramid era and went back to fancy tombs.
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Aug 18, 2023 19:22
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stephenthinkpad posted:It's like telling all the Egyptian farmers no building Pyramid doesn't not in fact guarantee your king a godly afterlife. Yes, that would be a confusing thing to tell somebody.
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Aug 18, 2023 19:33
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Killer robot posted:It's a relatively recent development of a much older empire so it's more like when they wound down the pyramid era and went back to fancy tombs. I am pretty sure the pharaohs who built the 3 big pyramids and pharaohs who went back to built underground tombs belong to different dynasties. In fact I think there were many unremarkable dynasties between them. I am not say you can't package the new ideology and sell it to your subjects as the better thing. For example, that queen girl can kill the Cleons and establish her new empire dynasty under the new rule. But Cleons can't do it, his entire life and his entire identity is tied to "cloning emperors", he probably has made many scholars written books on why cloning is the superior way. There may be temples everywhere that worship the cloning concept. He can't change, he has to stay with the established way of life. If it fails, he has to go down with the ship.
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Aug 18, 2023 19:47
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So I guess with de-aging CGI we're at the end of the era of casting a different actor for "Young X", huh?
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Aug 18, 2023 22:15
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