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i would think some people only have access to traditional based off area or cost or even faith in a regulated health care system
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Aug 16, 2023 18:34
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I never really think about having provider networks and direct access to emergency care.
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Aug 16, 2023 18:51
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People who only have access to traditional medicine don't actually have access to health care.
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Aug 16, 2023 18:58
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Guavanaut posted:How is homeopathy even traditional? It was invented in the 1790s by Europeans and only even appeared to work because the homeopathic societies had clean water that didn't have sewage in it, so giving people with cholera the homeopathic treatment of "not other people's body waste, in your water" for a few weeks would cure them. I don't want to research it; but, was there a market for homeopathy branding of any sort in Europe circa 1800?
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Aug 16, 2023 19:20
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There was this hospital in London. They had the radical treatment idea of a deep bore well in their basement that didn't have other people's feces in it. It cured many diseases, but not for the reason they thought.
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Aug 16, 2023 19:25
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KORNOLOGY posted:I don't want to research it; but, was there a market for homeopathy branding of any sort in Europe circa 1800? Most sources I've read place its origins in the very early nineteenth century, and the "theory" behind it ("like cures like") to quack physician Christian Friedrich Samuel Hahnemann who first published on the subject in 1796. He got lucky when the Hanoverian monarchs of England found out and popularized his ideas, which inserted them more into what passed for mainstream medical thought in those days. edit: got my dynasties confused, the Stuarts were long gone by the time Hahnemann was doing his thing. Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Aug 16, 2023 |
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Aug 16, 2023 19:32
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KORNOLOGY posted:I don't want to research it; but, was there a market for homeopathy branding of any sort in Europe circa 1800? I listened to this episode on homeopathy recently, but Captain_Maclaine has the tl;dl: https://podbay.fm/p/behind-the-bastards/e/1571738400
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Aug 16, 2023 19:38
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I've noticed over the last few years a real uptick in this idea that if you're progressive you have to support every useless or even dangerous quack medicine. You see, evidence based medicine is western and thus colonial. Respect the traditional knowledge of local peoples and hold their wisdom on par with medical science, otherwise you're doing intellectual imperialism. Oh also you're sexist. A lot of women get really into snake oil MLM's and crystal healing poo poo and being a wise witchy woman who cures through her innate feminine connection to the moon. So if you say any of that is useless or even dangerous, you're sexist.
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Aug 16, 2023 19:40
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If traditional medicine worked it would just be called "medicine".
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Aug 16, 2023 19:40
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Baronjutter posted:I've noticed over the last few years a real uptick in this idea that if you're progressive you have to support every useless or even dangerous quack medicine. You see, evidence based medicine is western and thus colonial. Respect the traditional knowledge of local peoples and hold their wisdom on par with medical science, otherwise you're doing intellectual imperialism. Also they're all anti vax. But you're exactly right, and that WHO thread is full of shibboleths towards that kind of crunchy semi-lefty-but-not-if-pressed wellness person
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Aug 16, 2023 19:42
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You have to support the Donald Trump doctor who believes in demons and ghosts otherwise you're a right wing imperialist 
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Aug 16, 2023 19:48
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zoux posted:Also they're all anti vax. But you're exactly right, and that WHO thread is full of shibboleths towards that kind of crunchy semi-lefty-but-not-if-pressed wellness person Yeah, something I've talked about a lot but I noticed all these crunchy alt-med people, specially women who were obsessed with stuff like "did you know in ancient times the most wise person in the village who would solve problems and cure illness was the wise woman??" types all went anti-vax and are now hardcore alt-right. Turns out if you think women have innate special magic powers you end up very easily developing some extremely transphobic views on gender. Literally every single hippie alt med person I knew has gone down that path. They all started off as generally normal progressive people to non stop rambling about how Justin Trudeau is objectively worse than hitler and you gotta read this Jordan Peterson guy, he's been warning us about the trans agenda to use chemicals and cultural marxism to erase the essential and natural gender binary.
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Aug 16, 2023 19:51
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They should look at maternal and child mortality figures from ancient times. Those wise women didn't know poo poo!
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Aug 16, 2023 19:53
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Okay, perfect response. But my degenerate butt wanted to know if there was a prototypical homeopathy-brand millionaire way back when that wasn't astroturfed by nobles.
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Aug 16, 2023 19:56
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KORNOLOGY posted:Okay, perfect response. But my degenerate butt wanted to know if there was a prototypical homeopathy-brand millionaire way back when that wasn't astroturfed by nobles. I'd be surprised? While there were non-noble rich people in those days, wealth was very class-aligned and if you made/got a lot of money somehow a title would be among the first things you'd buy or otherwise seek to acquire.
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Aug 16, 2023 20:00
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You're right, I jumped the gun on assuming mass media branding.
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Aug 16, 2023 20:03
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People convinced that mid 19th century medicine had better ideas than the present day and also that the Comet Ping Pong pizzeria is killing and eating babies: KORNOLOGY posted:Okay, perfect response. But my degenerate butt wanted to know if there was a prototypical homeopathy-brand millionaire way back when that wasn't astroturfed by nobles.
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Aug 16, 2023 20:03
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It's kind of interesting that homeopathy never caught on here like it did in Europe. We got other snake oil stuff, but idk if homeopathy is even a top ten crackpot medicine scam in these here united states
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Aug 16, 2023 20:05
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Yeah it's really amazing how backwards a lot of europe is on stuff like that. I've had european family members get enraged that I didn't believe putting a spoon in a bottle of champagne made it not go flat. I could point them to numerous articles showing how they test it and it didn't do poo poo. But nope "this has been the traditional way for generations! don't doubt our culture!!!!"
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Aug 16, 2023 20:08
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zoux posted:It's kind of interesting that homeopathy never caught on here like it did in Europe. We got other snake oil stuff, but idk if homeopathy is even a top ten crackpot medicine scam in these here united states Oh it loving did.
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Aug 16, 2023 20:09
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The less mindshare homeopathy has in the US, the more it affects our medical field, I think that's how it works
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Aug 16, 2023 20:11
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KORNOLOGY posted:Oh it loving did. It's less prominent among the snake oil set these days it seems to me, but it absolutely was one of the bigger scams back twenty years ago. Whatever else you may think of him, James Randi made mocking and going after homeopath scammers a big part of his thing, including once threatening to stand next to a lake and thus risk homeopathic overdose.
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Aug 16, 2023 20:16
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No! How could I have fallen for The Moscow Times!
KORNOLOGY fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Aug 16, 2023 |
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Aug 16, 2023 20:38
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zoux posted:It's kind of interesting that homeopathy never caught on here like it did in Europe. We got other snake oil stuff, but idk if homeopathy is even a top ten crackpot medicine scam in these here united states The main difference is that we're way more into what the new highly dangerous and completely unethical scam is. Europe is more into the classics. It is actually kind of amazing that we even survived all our various incredibly unhelpful and deadly medical theories and advancements. It wasn't until like the 1880s that medicine wasn't an absolute horror show, and that's only because that's around the time we finally began to accept that maybe disease wasn't caused by humors, miasma, or whatever. Like the actual fights to get doctors to just wash their goddamn hands and instruments were loving insane.
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Aug 16, 2023 21:59
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 America is huge and the race for land was unique.
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Aug 16, 2023 22:23
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For the anti abortion crowd, especially the hardcore ones with the graphic images of fetuses and poo poo, how do they rationalize things like contraception and the morning after pill that 100% involve no "butchery" or "murder" in any way whatsoever? Is the idea that loving should always result in a baby and, if so, why didn't God make it so that that always happens?
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Aug 17, 2023 00:04
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BiggerBoat posted:For the anti abortion crowd, especially the hardcore ones with the graphic images of fetuses and poo poo, how do they rationalize things like contraception and the morning after pill that 100% involve no "butchery" or "murder" in any way whatsoever? Is the idea that loving should always result in a baby and, if so, why didn't God make it so that that always happens? "Women having sex are bad evil sluts and should be punished with babies!", full stop. There's no logic, just spite. Even not counting their attitude on contraception, the fact they don't give a drat about born infants tells you all you need to know.
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Aug 17, 2023 00:11
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BiggerBoat posted:For the anti abortion crowd, especially the hardcore ones with the graphic images of fetuses and poo poo, how do they rationalize things like contraception and the morning after pill that 100% involve no "butchery" or "murder" in any way whatsoever? Is the idea that loving should always result in a baby and, if so, why didn't God make it so that that always happens? I've been falling down a Tradcath rabbit hole for the past few months (please send help) and, yeah, "sex that doesn't result in a baby is not God's plan for us" is a pretty common sentiment with them, and they're one of the major players in the movement. Not every pro-lifer follows that exact reasoning, of course, but the ones who do are pretty explicit that their main gripe is that sex should have consequences.
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Aug 17, 2023 00:13
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zoux posted:
I kind of get what they are saying with this, challenging the dominant idea of the western medical model being the only way. Enforcing beliefs on non-western people about ways to "do medicine" is an extension of colonialism and you'd ideally work with people to show them evidence and let them integrate best practice with their own way of doing healthcare
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Aug 17, 2023 00:22
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bowmore posted:I kind of get what they are saying with this, challenging the dominant idea of the western medical model being the only way. Enforcing beliefs on non-western people about ways to "do medicine" is an extension of colonialism and you'd ideally work with people to show them evidence and let them integrate best practice with their own way of doing healthcare Stop it right now.
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Aug 17, 2023 00:32
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BiggerBoat posted:For the anti abortion crowd, especially the hardcore ones with the graphic images of fetuses and poo poo, how do they rationalize things like contraception and the morning after pill that 100% involve no "butchery" or "murder" in any way whatsoever? Is the idea that loving should always result in a baby and, if so, why didn't God make it so that that always happens? I don't know why you assume they don't also claim those to be murder. Sex is only for procreation, and anything you do to stop inception is the work of Satan. Keep in mind also that a quite decent chunk of the hard line anti-abortion crew are kept generationally ignorant about most aspects of reproductive knowledge. We're talking periods are wrong/a woman's choice levels of dumbfuck ignorance.
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Aug 17, 2023 00:47
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KORNOLOGY posted:Stop it right now. doing a gland acknowledgement
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Aug 17, 2023 00:48
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Crunch Buttsteak posted:I've been falling down a Tradcath rabbit hole for the past few months (please send help) and, yeah, "sex that doesn't result in a baby is not God's plan for us" is a pretty common sentiment with them, and they're one of the major players in the movement. Not every pro-lifer follows that exact reasoning, of course, but the ones who do are pretty explicit that their main gripe is that sex should have consequences. Is "immense pleasure" a consequence? Cause, I mean...god gave me this penis that feels amazing when it's stimulated. And I've heard it said that women's genitalia can offer similar rewards. We're supposed to deny ourselves the single best feeling most of us ever experience because...? And, OK. Along those lines, why the hang up about masturbation? No babies, no abortions, no pregnancy, no std's. No harm. Just a little messy. Serious question because I do not know but does the bible speak on that anywhere?
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Aug 17, 2023 04:34
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BiggerBoat posted:Is "immense pleasure" a consequence? In Genesis, Onan's brother died and his father ordered him to impregnate his sister-in-law to carry on the family line. He didn't want to and pulled out instead. By religious telephone game this turned into "don't masturbate" just like how the Sodom and Gomorrah story about mistreatment of guests/foreigners turned into "Don't be gay." Thus the old-timey term for masturbation of "Onanism."
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Aug 17, 2023 04:53
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saintonan posted:If traditional medicine worked it would just be called "medicine". If other herbal remedies really worked then a bunch of German scientists in the 1890's would have turned them into pills
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Aug 17, 2023 06:09
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BiggerBoat posted:Is "immense pleasure" a consequence? Mama got a look at you and got a little worried. Papa got a look at you and got a little worried. Pastor got a look and said, "Y'all had better hurry: Send her off to a little bible college in Missouri" And now you come back sayin' you know a little bit about Every little thing they ever hoped you'd never figure out. Eve ate the apple 'cause the apple was sweet. What kinda God would ever keep a girl from getting what she needs? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnQ89jZvZD0 Killer robot posted:In Genesis, Onan's brother died and his father ordered him to impregnate his sister-in-law to carry on the family line. He didn't want to and pulled out instead. By religious telephone game this turned into "don't masturbate" just like how the Sodom and Gomorrah story about mistreatment of guests/foreigners turned into "Don't be gay." Thus the old-timey term for masturbation of "Onanism." Interesting details to this story: under the law and custom of the time, Onan's brother's widow couldn't inherit her husband's property - only a son could, but they had no children. The workaround for this was well-established: if a dead husband's brother knocked up the widow, then legally and officially the kid was considered to be the dead husband's child and would inherit, with the mother controlling the property until he reached adulthood. This ensured that the widow would be cared for. If she didn't have a son, then Onan would have inherited his brother's property and the widow would have no guarantee of being cared for. So essentially what Onan did by pulling out was defraud a widow and leave her penniless. And there's a whole lot in the Old Testament about how much God really hates it when widows, orphans, and the poor are abused and taken advantage of. Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Aug 17, 2023 |
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Aug 17, 2023 06:32
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BiggerBoat posted:Is "immense pleasure" a consequence? Sex is sinful. That's all of it. Probably the Devil making it feel good. However a good Christian woman never enjoys it(mostly because the horrific ignorance and indoctrinated revulsion means it's supposed to be strictly missionary style and the fewer strokes it takes for him to finish the better). Masturbation's prohibitions go back further than modernity, and largely lie in our moronic ideas of how the body works. Think how old timey boxers and other athletes were told that getting off before the match/game will make you worse. That was then tied up in morality, then religion. Then in America we got some real hosed up dudes who managed to become popular health gurus. Graham, Kellogg, and other weirdos. Their anti-horny diets and exercise beliefs got a real boost because all our food was loving terrible, so eating a bland but less perishable diet did make you feel better. Puritanical idiocy is our nations bread and butter. Which is also why we decided to make circumcision the cultural norm. It'll make you less likely to masturbate. Dr. Stick Up His rear end swears.
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Aug 17, 2023 07:07
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BiggerBoat posted:For the anti abortion crowd, especially the hardcore ones with the graphic images of fetuses and poo poo, how do they rationalize things like contraception and the morning after pill that 100% involve no "butchery" or "murder" in any way whatsoever? Is the idea that loving should always result in a baby and, if so, why didn't God make it so that that always happens? Every sperm is sacred Every sperm is great If a sperm is wasted God gets quite irate. 
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Aug 17, 2023 07:13
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Lemniscate Blue posted:And there's a whole lot in the Old Testament about how much God really hates it when widows, orphans, and the poor are abused and taken advantage of.
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Aug 17, 2023 08:03
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:The best example being decoction of willow bark. It's a traditional natural herbal remedy made from trees that humans used for thousands of years for all kinds of problems. Then we refined it and super concentrated it and turned it into a little pill you could easily swallow instead of a bunch of nasty gross brown liquid. It works! This is only half true. Salicylic acid found in willow bark isn't used as an internal painkiller today. It's mostly used as a topical treatment for skin conditions like warts and psoriasis. The reason is that it has nasty side effects when taken internally, with a significant risk of severe gastric disturbances or intestinal bleeding. You know how aspirin can give you an upset stomach? The original was much worse. Aspirin isn't just a refined and concentrated version: it's a synthetic drug, acetylsalicylic acid. While it was initially produced using bark-derived salicylic acid as a raw material, it's a lab-manufactured chemical that's far superior to the natural plant extract that it was based on. It's a perfect example of how traditional remedies that work get turned into medicine. Extra fun fact. "Aspirin" was originally a trademark of the Bayer company, the first major manufacturer of acetylsalicylic acid. They lost the rights to the trademark in much of the world after WW1, however. Another former Bayer trademark that became a household name also was used for a synthetic chemical produced from a plant extract. It was a popular cough medicine around the turn of the 20th century, but the formal name of diacetylmorphine was a bit of a mouthful. 
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Aug 17, 2023 09:17
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