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Cranappleberry posted:zero avatar changes for other users, possibly annoys the admins. I see no downsides. yeah the reason i went with the idea of having it go to the recipient was just because it's a screening system that doesn't add more to the people already doing all the work & wouldn't make people have to go ask for help right away while it's happening and they're still super upset i know id really hate making that PM, especially more than once. if it was admin/mod run it would take a second for each one or batch, but there would be perpetual PMs from scorned politics posters trying to rush their burns thru if it was a profile setting, could even have a lil field where you put in a buddy's username and them receive the accept/report prompt or w/e itd be like a proxy, that way the direct harassment part is handled too. there's only a few people i can think who'd have reason for any of it & i know they've got a lotta people who'd be willing to do that & otherwise it wouldn't change for anyone if it gets changed to where accounts are required and Jeffery wants to keep the totally anonymous option there could an email option for just those too, idk what'd be easiest to implement & just throwing out ideas but i feel like there's enough there to stop this from continuing to happen
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Aug 23, 2023 18:55
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Lt. Danger posted:probably should just take it one step at a time instead of devising complex labour-intensive processes or trying to pre-empt questions like "what if they make burner accounts" "what if they use a VPN" "what if they're direct employees of the NSA" This is the correct take. Don't build an entire new system until we have to because there are enough problems with the slur-ridden 20-year-old backend already.
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Aug 23, 2023 19:18
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well the real goal legitimately seems to be to not make any changes and just wait until everyone tires themselves out again so the thread can be marked [Pending] and settle at the bottom of the SAD list so to that end all the complex 'what if they this or what if they that' is the best possible play
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Aug 23, 2023 20:20
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Mr. Nice! posted:He got into a twitter argument with some idiots and in the quote chain at some point was some 12 year old kid. Abe flippantly replied to someone else something about showing dicks off or something like that which turned into an offsite doxxing crusade against Abe for threatening to expose himself to a minor. He got some calls at his work and such and had to explain to his boss what was going on. I don't remember specifics and cannot dig up posts about it because it was a decade ago or so. I think he stopped being a mod shortly after as well, but, again, this was forever ago. Not exactly. A twelve year old earned the ire of a twitter girl that abe and some others were following, and they all joined in on trying to bully the kid who remained completely unperturbed throughout it all as they speculated about the size of his penis. He even told people not to retaliate on his behalf, because he just felt sorry for abe & the gang, not angry. The "lonely knife" guy who wanted to murder fyads was also part of the same crew.
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Aug 23, 2023 20:27
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Alright, now we need a third version, Rashomon-style, and we can try to triangulate the Goon Telephone Signals and find out where Abe was when he got in a fight with a 12 year old. In all seriousness, though, I'm on board with FNLN's suggestion regarding changing avatar buys, if they're feasible.
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Aug 23, 2023 21:45
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Crespolini posted:Not exactly. A twelve year old earned the ire of a twitter girl that abe and some others were following, and they all joined in on trying to bully the kid who remained completely unperturbed throughout it all as they speculated about the size of his penis. I appreciate the clarification. I was just a third party bystander, and a lot has happened in the intervening decade.
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Aug 23, 2023 22:35
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Is it worth having a conversation in a separate thread about whether forum rules should include not allowing certain kinds of posts that open someone up to doxxing? Or maybe something lesser like a pinned post about protecting your safety online?
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Aug 24, 2023 00:37
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is anyone actually doing that or did everyone just argue about someone theoretically doing that
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Aug 24, 2023 01:51
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Take an incremental approach. You're not going to stop all doxxing, but each layer of defense is going to make harassment harder, and making incremental improvements demonstrates commitment to addressing the problem and acknowledging the community's concern. A good first candidate seems to be putting av purchases behind the paywall. Prevent av purchases if your account is banned or permabanned. Is this perfect? No. It doesn't need to be. It just needs to be an improvement. It ties a purchase to an account that can be banned, and it raises the barrier to entry for this form of harassment. Keep it simple and put that type of change in, observe what happens, learn from it, and then take another step if it's still a problem. For example, if you needed to add another layer, the next increment could be requiring some minimum account life for av purchases. Essentially stick on a probationary period of something like 90 or 180 days before being able to buy others avatars by checking the account age when they go to purchase someone else an av. Is your account 45 days old? Tough poo poo, you can't buy someone else an av yet. Personally, I'd recommend against admin/mod queues until other means have been exhausted, there are other seemingly low lift solutions that can make the type of targeted harassment being discussed a pain in the rear end without requiring manual overhead or changing payment systems, etc. Apologies if this comes across as uninformed by presuming that something that would be hard to do is simple, I'm not familiar with the site's backend or what dumb as poo poo decisions over the years would need to be unwound to do something seemingly simple. biceps crimes fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 02:34
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How about we just make every avatar purchase include a $1,000 hold. If it's a bad avatar, the user who's avatar was changed gets the money. 
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Aug 24, 2023 02:50
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biceps crimes posted:Take an incremental approach. You're not going to stop all doxxing, but each layer of defense is going to make harassment harder, and making incremental improvements demonstrates commitment to addressing the problem and acknowledging the community's concern. This is reasonable, but bear in mind that a stepwise approach can also have the effect of socializing adaptation to and circumvention of the barriers. Hitting the people abusing the system with several obstacles at once can both drive socialization against the practice and "catch" a larger number of infringing users. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 03:54
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Monetising hate is a problem that will likely sort itself out in due time. Probably won't have a happy ending, though
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Aug 24, 2023 04:03
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Discendo Vox posted:This is reasonable, but bear in mind that a stepwise approach can also have the effect of socializing adaptation to and circumvention of the barriers. Hitting the people abusing the system with several obstacles at once can both drive socialization against the practice and "catch" a larger number of infringing users. Yes, but several obstacles released at once require more technical decisions to be made, longer lead time to putting *any* improvements into place, and a higher risk of nothing actually being done due to various issues that may arise. I don't disagree with your assertion here, but my suggestion is motivated by thinking that one of the larger problems here, even aside from the root issue of harassment, is indecision and inaction in putting in solutions to address it. Making any improvement, even if small, can overcome the stasis we're at right now with this problem. Perhaps you're wrong, and just putting one easy incremental layer of defense in place is sufficient. Or maybe you're right! Either way, harassers working through the swiss cheese and still doing harassment is going to happen. We don't know how much it would be tapered down though, and maybe it becomes a much rarer event with some simpler gates put into place. This is an issue raised by the community, so feedback from the community after action is taken and first solutions are put into place would be an essential piece to addressing this form of harassment and doxxing. We don't know what the broader consensus may look like when it comes to what is a tolerable level of this taking place. We're not sure what the consensus would be as far as if we have taken sufficient steps in trying to prevent this behavior. Maybe the fever pitch dies down with just a gate or two added, but we can't know that either without the site leaders taking that first step and seeing the resulting feedback. We do know that the broader consensus of goons finds the current state of affairs to be unacceptable, and there also seems to be broad consensus regarding frustration towards the inaction/indecision and lack of communication regarding the problem. I can see myself being on the other side of things and being overwhelmed by analysis paralysis or being unsatisfied with the lack of a perfect solution or even necessarily a satisfying one. I'm optimistic that taking a small step with an imperfect yet meaningful improvement could help grease the wheels there and maybe deflate a little bit of the pressure on that side as well. Ultimately, I think putting any improvement into place will change the conversation, and everyone will be better informed. The community will feel acknowledged and heard, the site leadership can point to a meaningful (if not flawed) improvement, both groups can learn more, and doxxers/harassers can have a harder time and gently caress off biceps crimes fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 04:23
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Mr. Nice! posted:I appreciate the clarification. I was just a third party bystander, and a lot has happened in the intervening decade. Tbf I don't think abe was the worst of them there by any means, he was just the most well known of the goons involved.
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Aug 24, 2023 04:33
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studio mujahideen posted:is anyone actually doing that or did everyone just argue about someone theoretically doing that people have totally done that recently, but that's much more of a goon oversharing / goons using one user name for everything sort of thing. and nothing in the world will stop the kind of goon who's gonna dox themselves by oversharing about their sex life from posting about things that will identify themselves. or get them to use a different login than the one they've been posting fairy torture erotic novels under or whatever. NoiseAnnoys fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 10:08
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We were informed Jeff had been addressing this issue for “hours” a few days ago. Any further updates?
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Aug 24, 2023 12:37
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biceps crimes posted:Yes, but several obstacles released at once require more technical decisions to be made, longer lead time to putting *any* improvements into place, and a higher risk of nothing actually being done due to various issues that may arise. Fully agreed- I think the answer (which, again, I’ve been asking for since last October) is to just remove the function until the tech debt is paid.
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Aug 24, 2023 14:08
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Judgy Fucker posted:We were informed Jeff had been addressing this issue for “hours” a few days ago. Any further updates? fell asleep at his research station
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Aug 24, 2023 14:14
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Discendo Vox posted:Fully agreed- I think the answer (which, again, I’ve been asking for since last October) is to just remove the function until the tech debt is paid. That settles it. Nice work everyone.
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Aug 24, 2023 14:18
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Discendo Vox posted:Fully agreed- I think the answer (which, again, I’ve been asking for since last October) is to just remove the function until the tech debt is paid.  Space Camp fuckup posted:That settles it. Nice work everyone. 
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Aug 24, 2023 14:29
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Judgy Fucker posted:We were informed Jeff had been addressing this issue for “hours” a few days ago. Any further updates? No, and when someone asked astral if he knew anything about it when he popped up in the small questions thread the dude ghosted I don't think jeff was ever actually working on it op
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Aug 24, 2023 15:10
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Psycho Landlord posted:I don't think jeff was ever actually working on it op That would be my inclination other than Boba said Jeff had talked to them about it. But I also don't know Boba as a poster so  The Astral thing is kinda whatever, they've absolved themselves of talking about or for Jeff for a while. VVVVV Fluffdaddy posted:We have spent days on this and will be talking about it when we can. We meaning the entire admin team. Thanks, Fluff Judgy Fucker fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 15:22
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Psycho Landlord posted:No, and when someone asked astral if he knew anything about it when he popped up in the small questions thread the dude ghosted We have spent days on this and will be talking about it when we can. We meaning the entire admin team.
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Aug 24, 2023 15:24
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The fact y'all keep ghosting when asked to acknowledge something does not inspire confidence. You do realize that right?
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Aug 24, 2023 15:33
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Malachite_Dragon posted:The fact y'all keep ghosting when asked to acknowledge something does not inspire confidence. Who is ghosting? I don't remember not being here. I just have nothing to share that is any of you alls business at this time.
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Aug 24, 2023 15:34
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Fluffdaddy posted:Who is ghosting? I don't remember not being here. I just have nothing to share that is any of you alls business at this time. jeff is ghosting, obviously. that's his thing. which sucks. thanks for at least being a conscious presence with a keyboard but this has been a hot topic in SAD since the week it opened and the universal reply has been "waiting on jeff's response" which never comes. there's no reason for anyone to think anything is going to change. when you say "we're working on it" i don't believe you. personally i think you're all nattering back and forth in the mod forums while jeff pokes the code with a stick and it's going to culminate in "this is too big a mess and it's all radium's fault sorry" because that's what history would indicate.
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Aug 24, 2023 15:40
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He isn't ghosting at all he is just trying to figure out a way to talk about this incident while being respectful of privacy.
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Aug 24, 2023 15:41
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Fluffdaddy posted:Who is ghosting? Fluffdaddy posted:He isn't ghosting at all he is just trying to figure out a way to talk about this incident while being respectful of privacy. I am very specifically appreciative of your engagement and communication on this issue now and in the past fd. However, Jeff and Astral have ignored and buck-passed on this issue for literal years. Until they do anything productive and visible at this point people are only reasonable in assuming they’re doing nothing. Your second quoted message only raises additional concern because if any technical changes were being considered or implemented discussing them would obviously not be a violation of privacies, so it suggests that no such changes are in the pipeline and the status quo will remain until the next time this happens and we have this exact same conversation yet again.
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Aug 24, 2023 15:48
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If I ran this site I would definitely maintain a sparsely posting lightning rod account to concentrate people's ire. Seems to save a lot of headache for a bunch of energy that can't be quelled anyway. The Ticketmaster approach
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Aug 24, 2023 15:56
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Fluffdaddy posted:He isn't ghosting at all he is just trying to figure out a way to talk about this incident while being respectful of privacy. Again, this has been a topic of conversation for months. You, yourself have posted frustration at jeff's lack of response multiple times in this forum dude.
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Aug 24, 2023 15:58
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Fluffdaddy posted:He isn't ghosting at all he is just trying to figure out a way to talk about this incident while being respectful of privacy. Sure, but he could still say "I'm looking into it, and trying to figure out a way to talk about this incident while being respectful of privacy." You and Boba having to be like Moses coming down from the mountain to say "I have spoken to Jeff and his word is good" shouldn't be needed, and only feeds into the perception of Jeff as completely absent and detached from the community.
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Aug 24, 2023 15:59
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Fluffdaddy posted:He isn't ghosting at all he is just trying to figure out a way to talk about this incident while being respectful of privacy. nobody wants jeff to talk about this incident, we want him to fix the problem. nobody has to talk about this incident at all, ever again. all he has to say is "hey, we changed the avatar policy to protect people from doxxing" your reply, to me, indicates that this is not what the response is going to be and he's trying to figure out how to weasel out of fixing the actual issue without the community eating him alive. i'd love to stop reading all the stuff coming from the admin team about this as bad faith but again i'm just going off of recent history here. i hope something changes but y'all have given us zero reason to believe it will. thanks for being willing to engage at all, at least. i hope i'm wrong. e: i thought my previous reply was a draft lol whoops
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Aug 24, 2023 16:09
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Again, this has been a topic of conversation for months. You, yourself have posted frustration at jeff's lack of response multiple times in this forum dude. lmao I remember when SAD first opened FD was in a sniper tower poppin off probes with no commentary. For a day or two we all speculated that this was on purpose to have an admin interacting and an admin probing. FD broke his wall of silence like a few days later and posted like "Oh yeah, I wasn't posting on purpose. Jeff was supposed to say something. I had assumed he did say something because I asked him multiple times to do so"
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Aug 24, 2023 16:11
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Fluffdaddy posted:We have spent days on this and will be talking about it when we can. We meaning the entire admin team. That’s nice, hey where is the site owner to address this btw? It’s only been nearly a year
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Aug 24, 2023 16:19
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imo you should do a better job setting expectations on how long this will take and how often updates should be expected. thank you
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Aug 24, 2023 16:30
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Fluffdaddy posted:He isn't ghosting at all he is just trying to figure out a way to talk about this incident while being respectful of privacy. You've got to understand that people are frustrated with being told to wait for a response that has traditionally never actually happened the last 3,768 times we were told something was coming. Like, I believe you all are actively working on things, I do. You're like the last person who would bullshit people about stuff like this. And I know Jeff's lack of communication with the userbase is not anyone's fault but Jeff's. But everyone here is capable of basic pattern recognition (much as it may not always seem that way) so expecting people to get their hopes up (or to be fine with being told that 'oh what's happening right now is none of your business', even if that's true) is really not realistic.
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Aug 24, 2023 16:35
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I also acknowledge that it's not fair to you either, FD. The messenger always gets shot.
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Aug 24, 2023 16:38
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just fyi i know jeff is working on this. i cant provide any proof of this but i hope some of you believe in me. but i wish he would just post in this forum too lol
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Aug 24, 2023 16:39
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pog boyfriend posted:just fyi i know jeff is working on this. i cant provide any proof of this but i hope some of you believe in me. but i wish he would just post in this forum too lol I believe you, pog boyfriend.
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Aug 24, 2023 16:42
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jeff is in his mind palace gendo ikari staring at the code he will not be heard from
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