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Cerebral Bore posted:jesus wouldn't approve of kinkshaming, just so you know Stfu moron
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Sep 7, 2023 19:11
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Whipping fail posters until they flee the thread Jesus style
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Sep 7, 2023 19:11
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When you have transcendent experience, it gets really hard to rationalize poo poo away. I have these unverifiable interior experiences that are internally consistent and enough to persuade me of something like a sethian Gnostic understanding of the cosmos Where i can graft on a rationalized worldview, i do, but marxist analysis falls flat for me often because it takes observed properties of organized religion as a tool of the state and seems to presuppose these things are its only purpose. I guess it's still fair, because within a range of understanding, that analysis holds. I don't wanna argue about what "the church" does as a political entity because marxism correctly assesses that. But, i also have to reconcile that with this personal experience that says, actually there's some of that poo poo going on. Without reducing the personal experience to hallucination, or otherwise seeking to dismiss it out of hand, how would you reconcile that kind of experience with a healthy, robust left wing view of the world? I spend some amount of time trying to, but at the end of the day it mostly ends up being a point of alienation between me and other, perhaps more serious lefties. I'd love to get past that, without abandoning my own belief in the process???
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Sep 7, 2023 19:38
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I don't think that religion and materialism necessarily have to clash. The critiques of the institutions are valid, and the state and religious organizations are intrinsically tied by how much power they lend each other, but I don't think Marxism supposes to say anything about the nature of the universe or what happens when you die, or even necessarily about most aspects of personal morality past the material. I think my point is to say that you can be a part of a religion and critically analyze religious organizations at the same time.
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Sep 7, 2023 19:58
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KirbyKhan posted:This! One of my favorite cultural values of the Mormons was The Mission and how every young man goes out for 2ish years to be where God needs them to be. i thought it was about making them go out and alienate outsiders and look weird and ridiculous around them so that they internalize a sense that there is no life for them outside the confines of the institution
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Sep 7, 2023 20:54
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Tungsten posted:i thought it was about making them go out and alienate outsiders and look weird and ridiculous around them so that they internalize a sense that there is no life for them outside the confines of the institution like i said its hazing
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Sep 7, 2023 21:00
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Riot Bimbo posted:Without reducing the personal experience to hallucination, or otherwise seeking to dismiss it out of hand, how would you reconcile that kind of experience with a healthy, robust left wing view of the world? buddhism has a concept of understanding and responding both to a bigger picture, "spiritual" (not their term) view of reality that encompasses these kinds of feelings and experiences you're describing, while also simultaneously living day by day by the needs and rationality of material reality, without shortchanging the other. I forget exactly what it's called but its basically about how these two types of understanding don't necessarily meaningfully intersect, and giving them both space to live along their own logic is good or maybe necessary, even, until you have the gnosis to really resolve all those contradictions. maybe ask the buddhism thread about it.
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Sep 7, 2023 21:00
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Impermanent posted:buddhism has a concept of understanding and responding both to a bigger picture, "spiritual" (not their term) view of reality that encompasses these kinds of feelings and experiences you're describing, while also simultaneously living day by day by the needs and rationality of material reality, without shortchanging the other. I forget exactly what it's called but its basically about how these two types of understanding don't necessarily meaningfully intersect, and giving them both space to live along their own logic is good or maybe necessary, even, until you have the gnosis to really resolve all those contradictions. maybe ask the buddhism thread about it. the absolute within the relative; the relative within the absolute. the spiritual truth and material truth are not two. hth 
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Sep 7, 2023 21:14
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got the gnosis to resolve all contradictions easily. skill issue
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Sep 7, 2023 21:15
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Ohtori Akio posted:like i said its hazing This. But I've seen Jack Mormons who fell away from the church had a concrete and relatable vision of faith and spirituality than the life long Utah native who would get uncomfortable when lil heathen teenage me did something uncouth in their presence. The hazing and the infrastructure required to profit from this hazing ritual was like the core reason they had problem with being in the stake.
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Sep 7, 2023 21:23
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ram dass in hell posted:got the gnosis to resolve all contradictions easily. skill issue
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Sep 7, 2023 21:26
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Xaris posted:how do you resolve the inherent contradiction to yourself here? you say there shouldn't be a call to violence, but pacifism doesn't work. why is being pacifist admirable and good, yet then also has never been meaningful? i mean this in an earnest question -- it sounds like you still have liberal hesistencies living in your mind its not a contradition that needs to be resolved
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Sep 7, 2023 22:01
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KirbyKhan posted:Jack Mormons What's this?
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Sep 7, 2023 22:14
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Animal-Mother posted:What's this?  I didn't actually know about the first definition. But the second one was what I was referring to. Other classification oddity, Mormons also use the word "gentile" to describe non-mormons to the point where they named a street Gentile Street, only place on earth where a Jew can be a gentile. Very vivid memory of an old timey museum with this knowledge.
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Sep 7, 2023 23:16
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how bout Jacked Mormons?
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Sep 7, 2023 23:22
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Xaris posted:how do you resolve the inherent contradiction to yourself here? you say there shouldn't be a call to violence, but pacifism doesn't work. why is being pacifist admirable and good, yet then also has never been meaningful? i mean this in an earnest question -- it sounds like you still have liberal hesistencies living in your mind nothing matters op
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Sep 8, 2023 00:29
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ArmZ posted:nothing matters op perkele
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Sep 8, 2023 01:35
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Pepe Silvia Browne posted:how bout Jacked Mormons? are you Jackin it to Mormons?
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Sep 8, 2023 04:20
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Riot Bimbo posted:When you have transcendent experience, it gets really hard to rationalize poo poo away. I have these unverifiable interior experiences that are internally consistent and enough to persuade me of something like a sethian Gnostic understanding of the cosmos Whatever your mystical magical internal transcendence might tell you OP, your meat sack still lives in a material world and is ruled by material conditions. You're flesh. The dust of the world. Your internal life doesn't amount to jack if you're hungry and cold, and your understanding of the cosmos won't solve either of those fundamental problems for longer than a few weeks. Material well being is a necessary precondition for spiritualism to flourish, because ascetics who try to transcend physicality usually just end up dead for their efforts. Perhaps they find something beyond death, but if all the cool poo poo happens after you shed your mortal clay then what was the point of the physical plane to begin with?
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Sep 8, 2023 04:33
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rodbeard posted:are you Jackin it to Mormons?  Link Edit: wait this isn't the book club thread
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Sep 8, 2023 04:33
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Do they wear the special underwear?
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Sep 8, 2023 04:35
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Yes, but not for long.
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Sep 8, 2023 04:41
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rodbeard posted:are you Jackin it to Mormons? I think the Mormons are the ones jackin it they consume a lot of pornography
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Sep 8, 2023 04:59
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Nix Panicus posted:Material well being is a necessary precondition for spiritualism to flourish, lmfao
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Sep 8, 2023 05:00
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If jacked mormom came on my door I’d be more likely to listen than if it were slovenly, out of shape mormons
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Sep 8, 2023 05:01
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Ohtori Akio posted:lmfao Skip food, shelter, and clean water for two weeks and report back on your spiritual insights. Might need a medium though.
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Sep 8, 2023 05:03
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Nix Panicus posted:Skip food, shelter, and clean water for two weeks and report back on your spiritual insights. Might need a medium though. you are genuinely retarded if you think having more material comfort increases interest in religion
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Sep 8, 2023 05:16
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singing a spiritual about how good I have it
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Sep 8, 2023 05:18
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Nix Panicus posted:Skip food, shelter, and clean water for two weeks and report back on your spiritual insights. Might need a medium though. fedora level religion own here
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Sep 8, 2023 05:22
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I skipped food and sleep for a week and thought I was Jesus I was partially correct We are all Jesus
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Sep 8, 2023 05:26
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Poppers posted:Stfu moron buddy ure showing your attachment to ego by hurling insults while i'm suckling the milk of enlightenment right from fat buddha's dudetits
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Sep 8, 2023 09:49
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Riot Bimbo posted:When you have transcendent experience, it gets really hard to rationalize poo poo away. I have these unverifiable interior experiences that are internally consistent and enough to persuade me of something like a sethian Gnostic understanding of the cosmos I had this same problem for a while. I grew up very religious and had a difficult time reconciling that past without discarding it completely. Eventually, I realized that nothing I believed had any significant contradictions. I can eat my lovely matzoh and fast and light some candles and still feel a connection to my heritage. Nobody is going to throw you out of a meeting for that. my understanding of the Marxist critique of religion also includes the "medical" aspects of it. The "opiate of the masses" is a pain-killer for the evils of capital. You work and sleep and work and sleep and you feel so totally isolated. You are alone in a world that is smothering you, condemned to a life of repetitive monotony. But then you go to church and there's a community there. People are singing and clapping and holding hands and you think "well, life may suck but Jesus loves me". And that's fine. As long as you know that Jesus isn't coming to save you, but perhaps the structure and belief of his religion can empower you to take action. You can't just sit back and inherit the earth, you must take it.
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Sep 8, 2023 17:17
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Ohtori Akio posted:perkele i dont even know what that means
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Sep 8, 2023 17:55
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ArmZ posted:i dont even know what that means 
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Sep 8, 2023 18:20
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they call it finland but the people don't even have fins? hosed up
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Sep 8, 2023 18:23
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Hatebag posted:they call it finland but the people don't even have fins? hosed up the submerged ancient horrors that the finns worship do have those though
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Sep 8, 2023 18:25
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AxGrap posted:Also, people need stories and metaphors to teach them about morality. That's good. Religion is good, it's the power structures that are bad. basing your morality on hey someone is always watching you and if you are bad you burn in hell forever is stupid tho
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Sep 8, 2023 20:26
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babypolis posted:basing your morality on hey someone is always watching you and if you are bad you burn in hell forever is stupid tho I agree, and a ton of that stuff was kinda snuck in there after the fact too. Unsurprisingly it concretes the idea that you can't question the church's authority. The Christian concept of hell has evolved a lot and is heavily influenced by not only the Jewish hell, but the Greek Hades, probably bc the audience was familiar with it.
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Sep 8, 2023 20:31
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My understanding is that the Christian theology before hell was a fully formed idea was that if you don't act in accordance with God's will you will spend your eternity after death separated from God, and not like, totally blissed out like you would be if you were doing the right stuff.
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Sep 8, 2023 20:49
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I've been seeing whole lot more of those "doomsday" church starting to pop up and advertise. Like how the world is ending and judgement day is upon us and so you must save yourself now. I wonder just how successful are those kind of thing are?
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Sep 8, 2023 20:50
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