[Pestilence] https://youhavetoliveyour.life/

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Pestilence] https://youhavetoliveyour.life/

(Thread IKs: PoundSand)

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Asproigerosis posted:

Woah anyone heard of this covid thing? Sounds crazy.

Oh wait it's 2023 and this is what my hospital is sending out again for some reason, despite covid having been over for a year now? Strange.

The fourth mode listed is the one with weakest foundation in so‐called �evidence‐based medicine�.

Platystemon has issued a correction as of 11:28 on Sep 19, 2023

# ? Sep 19, 2023 10:36

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 25, 2024 10:12

Bastard Tetris: Apr 27, 2005; L-Shaped; Nap Ghost

RandolphCarter posted:

I am the only person at my job wearing a mask tonight.

been that way for about a year despite the fact we scrub into BSL-3 poo poo with things potentially more infectious than X.BB, previously known as the most infectious disease in recorded history

# ? Sep 19, 2023 10:58

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

Ghost Cactus posted:

(..)
Thanks Pingui for posting so much good info (this isn�t sarcastic you�re a mensch).

# ? Sep 19, 2023 11:34

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

PoundSand posted:

When googling about this debate I found an interresting article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8552225/

I could be misunderstanding the numbers it took a few reads through the discussion section to try to get what they were saying but afaict the RR is basically fraction of people you would expect to get sick if they had been wearing n95's instead of surgical masks. For a lot of stuff like the common cold it appears the surgical masks actually weren't doing much worse than the n95, but for specifically covid there's a pretty drastic reduction (down to 17%). That's not to say you shouldn't wear a surgical mask if that's all you've got, it still does seem to help, but the n95 is a huge step up.

Incidentally I don't think poppers is trolling much with their reason why they prefer surgical, in several of the articles I found it was specifically mentioned that discomfort from the n95 through long working hours/weeks often resulted in non-compliance from the medical staff (headaches came up several times) or frequent adjustments/taking off and on again which drastically lowered their effectiveness. For the most part not even doctors and nurses want to be wearing n95's all day, so it's not a surprise ordinary people wouldn't want to either.

There are no fewer than four metanalyses (and probably more) that pool the same set of studies in the same statistically invalid way.

Here is a thread from 2021 on what is wrong with it.

MacIntyre�s studies had participants wearing N95s correctly, except for one arm in one particular study that intentionally used what was believed to be and indeed was proven as inferior for comparison.

Loeb and Radonovich only had healthcare workers donning respirators when closing to within six feet of a patient. They did not prove that respirators do not work. What they proved is that influenza and COVID‐19 are airborne.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 11:47

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

Nothing new for the thread, but the updated vaccine rollout is so amazingly lovely it bears repeating:

https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/patients-charged-hundreds-new-covid-19-shots/ posted:

"Nightmare," Some planning to get new COVID-19 vaccine getting bills for nearly $200

When Glen Cote of Acton drove to his appointment at CVS for the new COVID-19 vaccine, he was shocked to receive a text on his phone minutes before his appointment, letting him know that the vaccine would cost $190.99.

"Nightmare is the first word that comes to mind," he explained to WBZ-TV. Cote is covered by MassHealth, the state's program for Medicaid.

The new COVID-19 shot was approved by the FDA and CDC about a week ago, with the vaccine to be shipped to area pharmacies. Signs outside many CVS stores read "FREE FLU & COVID-19 vaccines here."

Instead, posts on social media show that several people nationwide are getting charged for the shot, anywhere between $125 and $190.

The new vaccines by Pfizer and Moderna are supposed to target newer variants. Experts have recommended Americans get them along with their annual flu shots this year.

COVID-19 vaccines were free, covered by the federal government, until the Public Health Emergency ended earlier this year.

COVID-19 vaccines should be covered by most private and public health insurances.

According to both CVS and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the new vaccines have a new billing code for insurances � which has not been updated in all insurance plans, leading to the erroneous charge for people seeking out a vaccine in this first week.

"Some payers are still updating their systems and may not yet be set up to cover the updated COVID-19 vaccines. If this happens, our pharmacy teams can help patients schedule an appointment for a later date," a CVS Spokesperson said.

Glen Cote is disappointed in the lack of a smooth rollout, and a lack of answers which led him to reach out to WBZ. "I thought that we're supposed to take care of each other in the richest country on earth, and I can't even get a COVID booster to keep myself and my friends and family safe," he said.

His concern is the impact these planning hurdles could have on people in more complicated situations than his. He has spent hours on the phone trying to figure out the issue. "I'm some schmuck with a college degree in an Instagram account and there are people � like imagine if I had two kids and two part-time jobs or like two full-time jobs or something," he said.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 12:59

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

Another estimate of BA.2.86 fitness:

"Transmissibility, infectivity, and immune evasion of the SARS-CoV-2 BA.2.86 variant"

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(23)00575-3/fulltext posted:

(..)
We first estimated the effective reproduction number (Re) of BA.2.86 based on genome surveillance data until Sept 4, 2023, in Denmark, where multiple XBB subvariants including EG.5.1 are currently co-circulating, and 12 BA.2.86 sequences were reported (appendix p 10). Although there was considerable uncertainty in this estimation due to a smaller number of available BA.2.86 sequences, the Re of BA.2.86 was 1�29-fold greater than that of XBB.1.5 (95% Bayesian confidence interval 1�17�1�47; appendix p 10). Importantly, the Re of BA.2.86 was comparable to or even greater than that of EG.5.1, one of the most rapidly expanding XBB subvariants (appendix p 10), and the estimated posterior probability that the Re of BA.2.86 exceeds that of EG.5.1 was 0�901 (appendix p 10). These findings suggest that BA.2.86 potentially has greater fitness than current circulating XBB variants including EG.5.1.

To assess the possibility that the enhanced infectivity of BA.2.86 contributes to its augmented Re, we prepared lentivirus-based pseudoviruses with the S proteins of BA.2.86, EG.5.1, parental BA.2, and ancestral D614G-bearing B.1.1. The pseudovirus assay showed that the infectivity of BA.2.86 pseudoviruses in HOS-ACE2/TMPRSS2 cells was significantly lower than that of B.1.1 and EG.5.1 (appendix p 10), suggesting that the increased Re of BA.2.86 is not due to the increased infectivity. The fact that the lower infectivity of BA.2.86 does not translate into its lower Re is reminiscent of the findings for omicron BA.1 and BA.2: although BA.1 and BA.2 are less infectious than other variants such as delta in cell culture, these omicron variants exhibited greater immune escape capacity.4, 5 These observations suggest that Re can be determined by multiple factors such as infectivity and immune evasive potential.

We then performed neutralisation assays using vaccine sera to assess the possibility that BA.2.86 evades the antiviral effect of vaccine-induced humoral immunity. The sera obtained from individuals vaccinated with third-dose monovalent, fourth-dose monovalent, BA.1 bivalent, and BA.5 bivalent mRNA vaccines exhibited very little or no antiviral effects against BA.2.86 (appendix p 10). Additionally, the three monoclonal antibodies (bebtelovimab, sotrovimab, and cilgavimab), which worked against the parental BA.2,6 did not exhibit antiviral effects against BA.2.86 (appendix p 10). Finally, a neutralisation assay using XBB breakthrough infection sera showed that the 50% neutralisation titre of XBB breakthrough infection sera against BA.2.86 was significantly (1�6-fold) lower than that against EG.5.1 (p<0�0001; appendix p 10). Altogether, these results suggest that BA.2.86 is one of the most highly immune evasive variants so far.
(..)

# ? Sep 19, 2023 13:04

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

I am sure the RW will have a field day with this.

https://www.newsweek.com/man-jailed-coughing-coworkers-while-covid-positive-1827926 posted:

Man Who Had COVID Jailed for Coughing on Coworkers

A Singapore man will spend the next two weeks in jail after deliberately coughing on colleagues while he had COVID-19 and later admitted to his actions, which he deemed a "joke."

Tamilselvam Ramaiya, 64, was sentenced Monday for intentionally putting his work associates in harm's way and even causing one of them to contract COVID themselves, according to multiple media reports. He was charged under the country's Covid-19 Temporary Measures Act, during a period of heightened nationwide restrictions in the fall of 2021.
(..)
Ramaiya then opened a window from the outside and coughed once in the direction of a female clerk situated near the window. He was wearing his mask but was about an arm's length from her.

The prosecutor pushed for three to four weeks of jail time, notably due to the physical and emotional well-being of the female work colleague�a dialysis patient who suffered from cardiac and renal issues.
(..)

I am equally positive they will omit that last sentence.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 13:15

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

The Singaporean guy�s crime is that he made a few specific people sick.

If he had instead sickened abstract millions by his actions, he would be considered a great man.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 13:26

RandolphCarter: Jul 30, 2005

Pingui posted:

Nothing new for the thread, but the updated vaccine rollout is so amazingly lovely it bears repeating:

I really hope I don�t get hit with this poo poo Saturday. I can barely afford it

# ? Sep 19, 2023 13:30

Zugzwang: Jan 2, 2005; You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.; Ramrod XTreme

Platystemon posted:

If he had instead sickened abstract millions by his actions, he would be considered a great man.

And if you ensure that everyone's kids are getting each other and the staff sick in school over and over again, you will get to chill with Michelle Obama and be given a tongue-bath interview by NPR

# ? Sep 19, 2023 13:35

Petey: Nov 26, 2005; For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?

i don't want to slow anybody's roll but: between the lovely rollout and the known timing (i.e. that protection against infection lasts 2-3 months max), doesn't waiting until like late october for the boost make sense anyway (in america)? to let the system work itself out + maximize protection from thanksgiving through the new year?

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:05

Metric Skeleton: Apr 6, 2006; NEVER

got a buddy who's probably positive. does paxlovid still work? thanks for any input!

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:14

Insanite: Aug 30, 2005

Petey posted:

i don't want to slow anybody's roll but: between the lovely rollout and the known timing (i.e. that protection against infection lasts 2-3 months max), doesn't waiting until like late october for the boost make sense anyway (in america)? to let the system work itself out + maximize protection from thanksgiving through the new year?

if you otherwise have a good handle on precautions, yeah, maybe.

if you live with kids/a spouse who are out and about and unmasked, maybe not.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:18

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

Metric Skeleton posted:

(..)
does paxlovid still work?
(..)

Yes. Check out the OP for links to telehealth.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:20

Vishass: Feb 1, 2004

Got the new juice, but Walgreens didn't have the pediatric shot yet, had no idea when it would show up, and were telling people the CDC hadn't ok'd it yet (CDC said everyone 6 months+ should get it)

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:26

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

U-DO Burger posted:

https://twitter.com/ZekeEmanuel/status/1703836379090665507?t=QaHJWhkshhbyhM0azc3bag&s=19

heartbreaking, worst person you know, etc

The local hospital megaconglomerate now has everyone in their ads masking in clinical settings

this winter's gonna succkkkkk

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:27

Nothus: Feb 22, 2001; Buglord

lol my supposedly good blue cross insurance won't cover the new covid booster and Walgreens wants $156

I loving hate this shithole country

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:30

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

Nothus posted:

lol my supposedly good blue cross insurance won't cover the new covid booster and Walgreens wants $156

I loving hate this shithole country

wait what

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:31

Nothus: Feb 22, 2001; Buglord

Confirmed by calling them (IBX). It's not covered.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:33

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud: Apr 7, 2003

amazing

IBX does all their IT /data stuff through another Blue I used to work for (Highmark), dealing with IBX was always a tremendous pain in the rear end

That said the policyholder determines what is and isn't covered, so I'd blame your employer

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:37

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

Petey posted:

i don't want to slow anybody's roll but: between the lovely rollout and the known timing (i.e. that protection against infection lasts 2-3 months max), doesn't waiting until like late october for the boost make sense anyway (in america)? to let the system work itself out + maximize protection from thanksgiving through the new year?

Considering the way the new system is set up, I wouldn't necessarily count on anything beyond the bridge access program being available at that time.

Ordering the minimum 200 doses doesn't really make sense, unless you expect many people getting the dose and right now is peak demand. All things considered this will drop of precipitously soon.

Outside of liberal bastions, I absolutely wouldn't bet on it. And even inside those, I would consider it a big maybe.

Pingui has issued a correction as of 14:44 on Sep 19, 2023

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:40

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Nothus posted:

Confirmed by calling them (IBX). It's not covered.

Call your congressperson and complain, might be helpful if you look up just how much CARES Act money they pocketed. If that fails go to local media.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 14:42

Pingui: Jun 4, 2006; WTF?

If you want your kids to get the pediatric vaccines, it might be a good shout to reach out to like-minded in your area or closest democratic stronghold city. Maybe a demand coalition can be built surpassing the dose ordering requirement.

Best source I can find for the minimum orders (having checked other sources, this seems to be the same elsewhere)
https://www.azdhs.gov/covid19/documents/vaccines/vaccine-presentation-asiis.pdf

I can see how this would cause issues (particularly the 30-dose Pfizer minimum for 6m-4y, with 3 doses per vial).

10% of unused Moderna and 15% of unused Pfizer can be returned (possibly more of Pfizer, I am a bit confused by the phrasing):

https://illinoisaap.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/September-ICAAP-Newsletter.pdf posted:

(..)
For orders placed directly with Pfizer, 15% of total doses purchased, or the greater of the direct minimum order quantity units of sale, can be returned.
(..)
10% of a received [ed. Moderna] order can be returned.
(..)

# ? Sep 19, 2023 15:11

Diamonds On MY Fish: Dec 10, 2008; I WAS BORN THIS WAY

Bastard Tetris posted:

yeah DIY PCR is easy as poo poo, I got my nieces a My First MolBio kit for Christmas last year

https://www.the-odin.com/all-products/

These guys sell repurposed stuff but the owner’s a loving freak that’s basically blacklisted by the majority of the synbio community

https://www.addgene.org/

Addgene is an awesome resource but is academic so I don’t/can’t gently caress with them

OK but is it easy to go from having one of these kits to being able to test for COVID with incredible accuracy at home? Some of those kits were the price of a couple RATs. Why isn't this more of A Thing?

# ? Sep 19, 2023 15:23

Petey: Nov 26, 2005; For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?

Insanite posted:

if you otherwise have a good handle on precautions, yeah, maybe.

if you live with kids/a spouse who are out and about and unmasked, maybe not.

good point on the second thing, yeah � i am fortunate to be able to more or less control this, certainly moreso than a parent.

on thing daniel griffin talks a lot about on twiv is that he gets (and recommends for his patient) two flu shots a year for this purpose, one in like september, and one again in january. i wonder if that would ever enter the guidance for covid.

Pingui posted:

Considering the way the new system is set up, I wouldn't necessarily count on anything beyond the bridge access program being available at that time.

Ordering the minimum 200 doses doesn't really make sense, unless you expect many people getting the dose and right now is peak demand. All things considered this will drop of precipitously soon.

Outside of liberal bastions, I absolutely wouldn't bet on it. And even inside those, I would consider it a big maybe.

hm. you might be right, and i am definitely within a liberal bastion; my city has already announced universal free covid booster clinics across the city the entire last week of october.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 15:45

Zugzwang: Jan 2, 2005; You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.; Ramrod XTreme

Diamonds On MY Fish posted:

OK but is it easy to go from having one of these kits to being able to test for COVID with incredible accuracy at home?

# ? Sep 19, 2023 15:48

SixteenShells: Sep 30, 2021

Diamonds On MY Fish posted:

So that tweet about the different tests a couple pages ago had a reply from someone talking about building his own PCR testing machine at home. I didn't know that was A Thing? How has a goon not done this yet?

https://bitesizebio.com/23899/build-your-own-pcr-machine/

the thermocycler is probably the easiest part of the whole process. back in the day scientists would do the thermocycling manually by moving sample tubes between baths of water heated to specific temperatures, and the LAMP protocols for covid testing dont even need a thermocycle, just a constant temp. hell, you can get perfectly fine, if old, lab surplus thermocyclers on ebay for about the same cost as some of those DIY kits. the harder part is the (sometimes quite expensive) consumables and reagents. if you're running a lab and constantly churning through supplies, the costs are pretty reasonable compared to all the other money you're spending. a hobbyist might struggle to find it doable without paying out the rear end or wasting reagents.

i think it's kinda like 3d printing, it only makes sense to do it yourself if you plan to do a LOT of it or there just aren't other options.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 15:51

fosborb: Dec 15, 2006; Chronic Good Poster

Petey posted:

on thing daniel griffin talks a lot about on twiv is that he gets (and recommends for his patient) two flu shots a year for this purpose, one in like september, and one again in january. i wonder if that would ever enter the guidance for covid.

considering the efficacy curve + last few cycles of early fall and winter waves, twice yearly makes a lot of sense in the US

# ? Sep 19, 2023 15:52

Animal-Mother: Feb 14, 2012; RABBIT RABBIT
RABBIT RABBIT

Pingui posted:

Nothing new for the thread, but the updated vaccine rollout is so amazingly lovely it bears repeating:

we have the ~~tools~~ two hundred bucks

# ? Sep 19, 2023 15:56

fosborb: Dec 15, 2006; Chronic Good Poster

SixteenShells posted:

a hobbyist might struggle to find it doable without paying out the rear end or wasting reagents.

I skimmed through until it said, just requires a signed MTA! for reagents.

cool that the software is already built for this though

# ? Sep 19, 2023 15:56

dxt: Mar 27, 2004; METAL DISCHARGE

Pingui posted:

Nothing new for the thread, but the updated vaccine rollout is so amazingly lovely it bears repeating:

It's ok people will be so excited for new vaccines that they'll deal with all this bullshit and uptake will be better than the bivalent when it was free and easy!

# ? Sep 19, 2023 16:05

Shyfted One: May 9, 2008

Went to my CVS appointment anyway even after they said it was cancelled and I'm getting the new vaccine. I'll have to ask how many doses they have because they said 'I'm one of the lucky ones"

# ? Sep 19, 2023 16:09

NeonPunk: Dec 21, 2020

dxt posted:

It's ok people will be so excited for new vaccines that they'll deal with all this bullshit and uptake will be better than the bivalent when it was free and easy!

I know you're joking but that is a real psychological thing that marketing do use to get people to buy things. Having something free and easy to get make people think it's a lower quality while something that cost $ and is gatekept slightly means it's a much better item. The trick is to not make it too expensive and hard to get because that would just make lot of people do a 180 and completely turn off the product.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 16:11

Strep Vote: May 5, 2004; أنا أحب حليب الشوكولاتة

If you are a serial tester a home PCR set up wouldn't be the worst idea. U can charge ur neighbors :10bux:

for one to recoup cost.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 16:13

Hungry Squirrel: Jun 30, 2008; You gonna eat that?

Petey posted:

two flu shots a year

Wait. That's a thing? That people can do? Does a second dose of the same juice really help?

I'm starting to feel like getting extra vaccinations is like taking home the ducks at the park. Nobody's gonna stop you, so why not?

# ? Sep 19, 2023 16:15

Zugzwang: Jan 2, 2005; You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh.; Ramrod XTreme

SixteenShells posted:

the thermocycler is probably the easiest part of the whole process. back in the day scientists would do the thermocycling manually by moving sample tubes between baths of water heated to specific temperatures, and the LAMP protocols for covid testing dont even need a thermocycle, just a constant temp. hell, you can get perfectly fine, if old, lab surplus thermocyclers on ebay for about the same cost as some of those DIY kits. the harder part is the (sometimes quite expensive) consumables and reagents. if you're running a lab and constantly churning through supplies, the costs are pretty reasonable compared to all the other money you're spending. a hobbyist might struggle to find it doable without paying out the rear end or wasting reagents.

i think it's kinda like 3d printing, it only makes sense to do it yourself if you plan to do a LOT of it or there just aren't other options.

Yeah LAMP is good, as long as current variants haven't busted the primers (it has 8 sites per primer set instead of PCR's 2 or 3, so it's more mutation-vulnerable IMO). It has a few other advantages over PCR besides requiring just one temperature:
- results can be read via color change or precipitation of all the goddamn DNA it makes
- sample prep is simpler, at least for SARS-CoV-2

of course, a notorious disadvantage of LAMP:
- more false positives

Anyway, NEB sells this kit: https://www.neb.com/en-us/products/e2019-sars-cov-2-rapid-colorimetric-lamp-assay-kit#Product%20Information. Not cheap but it does run a lot of reactions.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 16:15

PostNouveau: Sep 3, 2011; VY till I die; Grimey Drawer

Post-booster: Bad sleep, pretty rundown today but I wouldn't say "sick"

# ? Sep 19, 2023 16:16

dxt: Mar 27, 2004; METAL DISCHARGE

NeonPunk posted:

I know you're joking but that is a real psychological thing that marketing do use to get people to buy things. Having something free and easy to get make people think it's a lower quality while something that cost $ and is gatekept slightly means it's a much better item. The trick is to not make it too expensive and hard to get because that would just make lot of people do a 180 and completely turn off the product.

Maybe if it wasn't initially free it would have worked, but I don't see people getting excited to pay for something/deal with insurance for something that used to be free.

# ? Sep 19, 2023 16:18

NeonPunk: Dec 21, 2020

dxt posted:

Maybe if it wasn't initially free it would have worked, but I don't see people getting excited to pay for something/deal with insurance for something that used to be free.

Now with New and Improved formula! This ain't your old vaccine you had!

Idk, they could had gotten away with charging $30-40 for it but with how expensive and difficult it is to get a booster now, I get the feeling that whole lot of people are going to get frustrated and then rationalize that they never really needed the vaccine anyways, and so they won't bother getting it even if they start pushing it later in the winter

# ? Sep 19, 2023 16:27

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 25, 2024 10:12

Bastard Tetris: Apr 27, 2005; L-Shaped; Nap Ghost

What Zug said is correct, it�s not the techniques or equipment but the covid-specific reagents which are the limiting factor here.

Also lmao my shadowy employer got Blue Cross so they totally hosed up vaccine coverage despite the fact we dragged pfizer and moderna across the finish line for this poo poo

# ? Sep 19, 2023 16:35

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Pestilence] https://youhavetoliveyour.life/

«‹›643 »