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Fuzz posted:Okay but which of these don't suck. Pretty much all of them save for maybe out buddies. Gato is really good if you want something you could beat in an evening.
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Sep 18, 2023 16:07
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No Dignity posted:I mean I made fun of the Souls aesthetic getting really played out but what really distinguishes Metroid from the rest is the concise length, intricate level design and versatile platforming mechanics, I don't know how prevalent that is with any of those games listed. I think out of all the games mentioned in the previous page my top recommendation for you would be Vision Soft Reset. It's very low budget but concise, quite open ended, and fundamentally about speedrun style routing as part of its core gameplay. Axiom Verge and A Robot Named Fight feel very SM, but that also includes feeling like they copied SM's kinda bad combat and bossfights, and Axiom Verge doesn't really feature any of the structural aspects you like about SM. ARNF is probably still the only decent attempt at making a metroidvania roguelike, but its moveset feels more basic than SM. Ghost Song was astonishingly boring to actually play, did not finish that one.
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Sep 18, 2023 16:36
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KNR posted:I think out of all the games mentioned in the previous page my top recommendation for you would be Vision Soft Reset. It's very low budget but concise, quite open ended, and fundamentally about speedrun style routing as part of its core gameplay. I really wanted to like VSR, but it's kind of a terrible game to play. The playforming isn't precise enough for how much of it there is, and it doesn't give you enough time juice to just brute force it or enough health to soak up all the times you land in spikes.
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Sep 18, 2023 16:55
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galagazombie posted:Not gonna lie “Solus: Bannerman of the Empire” sounds like a cool dude and I’d like to meet him. Here he is, complete with Stupidest Hairdo On A Villain  He's not a cool dude, though.
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Sep 18, 2023 17:56
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KNR posted:This is a fascinating enough idea that I'd be interested in loading up my save and checking these areas out if you remember any in specific. I've actually been itching to play another one of these Big Metroidvanias again, and Aeterna Noctis was on the list for me as something to replay but in a different way, since I never bothered using arrows for combat. I might just boot it up at some point and rush through as much as I can/try to beat some of the optional achievements. I remember the triple jump coming very early, like somewhere within the cemetery or shortly after. It was part of why it stood out to me, because you could get a triple jump so early and it felt like such a natural addition to the platforming instead of an OP movement option
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Sep 18, 2023 18:25
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bawk posted:I remember the triple jump coming very early, like somewhere within the cemetery or shortly after. It was part of why it stood out to me, because you could get a triple jump so early and it felt like such a natural addition to the platforming instead of an OP movement option The triple jump gem was added to the game in the DLC along with the gem that prevents losing your soul on death. Both great additions because I probably would've ditched noctis mode before the end of the game otherwise. I liked the platforming in AN but the regular combat was atrocious. I thought it was a joke when, after the sewer's slimes that left poison clouds on death, I got to the light palace and saw the slimes that shoot light beams when you kill them. Surely that's a a joke and every new area won't have boring slimes that make you wait through their death explosion to proceed, right? Narrator's voice: it will. I spent so much time repeatedly jumping up to hit an enemy on the ledge I needed to jump to next, then waiting for the death attack to end before proceeding. The design philosophy of combat seemed to be "hurry up and wait," and it padded the game out so badly. I remember the abyss enemies being particularly bad in that regard. The bosses were fun though; I can oddly handle waiting for openings in attack patterns much better with bosses and enjoyed changing up my gems or spec based on the boss. I think I went with melee for the robot refights and Garibaldi but used arrows on the doppleganger, queen, and emperor. It was kind of interesting how the second half of the game was a lot more interesting than the first half. It's dead zone, sewer zone, mine zone, fire zone, light zone. Then you get through the western wall and suddenly it's spirited away zone, puzzle palace, mario galaxy zone, third impact zone. I even thought the musical tracks got better (except for the Emperor fight wtf was with that bagpipe hoedown). I overall had a good time but the game didn't quite hit the mark on all its ambitions. B+.
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Sep 19, 2023 00:17
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I'd like to play a game fully in the souls aesthetic but no one tries to kill you. Instead you're just from the local engineering firm, sent in to get the crumbling ring city beyond time of bloodmourne up to code.
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Sep 19, 2023 00:59
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Discendo Vox posted:I'd like to play a game fully in the souls aesthetic but no one tries to kill you. Instead you're just from the local engineering firm, sent in to get the crumbling ring city beyond time of bloodmourne up to code. 2D Soulsborne Metroidvania version of Infra is pretty goddamn close to my video game version of The Homer. Toss in a cooking minigame and I'd replay it every 3 months
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Sep 19, 2023 01:03
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guppy posted:Astalon is super good, one of my favorites. I also really like Alwa's Awakening and Alwa's Legacy; they're much simpler than most MVs in terms of mechanics, but very charming. What I really enjoyed about Alwa's Legacy was how the mechanics were pretty limited, but also helped you unlock things and use them in interesting ways. Also I'm a sucker for 'a puzzle per room' sort of setups, which there were a lot of, and the combat wasn't too harsh; I don't necessarily mind more of an SotN style game with reasonably aggressive combat, but I also enjoy something a bit more laid back.
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Sep 19, 2023 07:13
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Alwa was too clunky for me. Felt more like a 2D Zelda. Astalon was absolutely phenomenal though. Totally blew me away. I was not expecting that much game in a little retro styled thing.
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Sep 19, 2023 11:01
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Spermanent Record posted:Felt more like a 2D Zelda. So like, the good ones?
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Sep 19, 2023 11:06
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Serephina posted:So like, the good ones?
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Sep 19, 2023 14:24
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Edit: Guffers!
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Sep 19, 2023 16:04
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Spermanent Record posted:Oh yeah, more like a top down Zelda game translated to a 2D plane, in terms of how items are introduced and how they then have a specific themed dungeon where you have to use them.
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Sep 19, 2023 16:05
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The thing with Alwa is that while you get movement upgrades, none of them are the kind of thing you expect. You never get a double jump; instead you get a bubble you can jump on. The upgrades don't just change the color of things, they have functional improvements, but they are also minor upgrades. Often important, but minor.
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Sep 20, 2023 14:07
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The Alwa's games stand out on account of coming from totally different points of reference than most MVs. The store page for the first game cites Battle of Olympus and Solstice, and there's gotta be some Legacy of the Wizard in there too.
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Sep 20, 2023 20:53
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the Alwa in Alwa's games stands for games that Always Own
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Sep 20, 2023 21:04
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People have been mentioning how most metroidvanias are inspired by igavanias more than Metroid in the thread recently, but are there actually any good games like that? To me, what separates Castlevania's Metroidy entries are just absurd amount of stuff hidden everywhere. Every enemy has 1-2 drops that might be unique items with weird gimmicks, and enemy abilities from Sorrow games are a blast. I've never seen an indie 'Vania replicate this aspect. I've recently beaten some Igavanias by only pumping up my Luck stat and that was super fun. Well, until I learned that it does nothing in Harmony of Dissonance and both Sorrow games... But before that it was fun to go through the castle and even grind a bit to see what kind of soul or weird item I'll get from every enemy. The only game I can think of that replicates it is Iga's own Bloodstained. It feels more like most indie Metroidvanias chase after Castlevania aesthetics but with uninspired Metroid collectibles and power-ups. I really hope that series actually breaks the norm from "here's a morph ball, here's a wave beam, every optional goodie is 5 missiles", because that sucks.
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Sep 21, 2023 09:51
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Vookatos posted:People have been mentioning how most metroidvanias are inspired by igavanias more than Metroid in the thread recently, but are there actually any good games like that? Yeah, they have traded this aesthetic for Souls gameplay whole hog. The sad part is the one game that was first and most blatant to do it, Salt and Sanctuary, is probably still overall the best one, even compared to its own sequel, apparently.
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Sep 21, 2023 12:35
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With all the Blasphemous 2 hype lately, I decided to finally play the original game since I never picked it up. Did I imagine hype and critical acclaim for this? I'm trudging through it but this game is a bit rough even for a "git gud" soulslike.
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Sep 21, 2023 14:48
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Dr. Clockwork posted:With all the Blasphemous 2 hype lately, I decided to finally play the original game since I never picked it up. Did I imagine hype and critical acclaim for this? I'm trudging through it but this game is a bit rough even for a "git gud" soulslike. I was near the final area when I realized I hadn't enjoyed it at all.
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Sep 21, 2023 14:52
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It's a bit rough around the edges but the atmosphere is almost unmatched and that's good enough for me.
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Sep 21, 2023 14:53
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The atmosphere, setting, lore and pixel art are awesome for sure. But the actual gameplay, like the poster above, is not fun to me. I've been muddling through it out of some sense of needing to get my money's worth, but not enjoying the experience. I think I'm near the end? Just killed a giant baby. There are a bunch of secrets and powerups I'm missing but backtracking way across the map even with the handful of fast travels and elevators is just a slog. There are some encounters that don't seem skippable where they put giant damage sponge enemies in your path that slows you down so much.
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Sep 21, 2023 14:59
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I liked both Blasphemous and the sequel, although they look similar, they have various differences. For example the movement abilities open a lot faster in B2 and they are more "traditional" from what you'd expect in a metroidvania, whereas in the first game a lot of them are pretty inventive but not necessarily needed for completing the game. The original is a bit more gritty and dark while the sequel is more streamlined and colorful (easier too). The original definitely has more of that old school "git gud" type of action and B2 is a bit more forgiving in that sense - one example is that they removed the instakill from spikes for the sequel.
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Sep 21, 2023 15:06
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Blasphemous was a bit too heavy for me. The art was rad, but the setting was oppressive and the gameplay didn't keep me coming back. I'm sure it's a fine game for folks who want to wade in that pool, but it was a refund for me.
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Sep 21, 2023 15:07
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Vookatos posted:People have been mentioning how most metroidvanias are inspired by igavanias more than Metroid in the thread recently, but are there actually any good games like that? Unfortunately not, its what makes me love love the igas, do you need 100 food items? no but its charming to pick up a boba tea or pizza to heal yourself
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Sep 21, 2023 15:27
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Blasphemous is high in my “I adored this but understand why folks might bounce off it” list. For me the weightiness of the systems and combat really came together well (especially figuring out proper block/parry stuff for bosses), there’s a ton of interesting secrets and ways for quests to pan out, and they expanded it over time and via patches to make NG+ cycle’s interesting with new bosses and areas. Backtracking early on is a thing but they patched in later a system where you get bonuses including shrine teleports for donating currency at the church in town, so make sure you are throwing money into the offering box; there’s still a good amount of running around to be done but does speed things up.
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Sep 21, 2023 15:35
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Tortolia posted:Blasphemous is high in my “I adored this but understand why folks might bounce off it” list. For me the weightiness of the systems and combat really came together well (especially figuring out proper block/parry stuff for bosses), there’s a ton of interesting secrets and ways for quests to pan out, and they expanded it over time and via patches to make NG+ cycle’s interesting with new bosses and areas. I stopped playing Blasphemous because the "good amount of running around" you describe is actually almost half your game time as soon as you get stuck and don't know how to progress, which can happen because the game is very poor at directing you anywhere. I agree with you that they nailed combat and exploration though. I like the extreme/cringy gothicness of it too. It's just so badly designed map wise.
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Sep 21, 2023 15:44
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JSmithOTI posted:Blasphemous was a bit too heavy for me. The art was rad, but the setting was oppressive and the gameplay didn't keep me coming back. I'm sure it's a fine game for folks who want to wade in that pool, but it was a refund for me. Kawabata posted:I stopped playing Blasphemous because the "good amount of running around" you describe is actually almost half your game time as soon as you get stuck and don't know how to progress, which can happen because the game is very poor at directing you anywhere. Both of these posts, right here. Still the only game I've ever refunded on Steam, since I paid full price at release.
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Sep 21, 2023 15:49
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I remember really disliking Blasphemous on release (it was a glitchy mess on Switch, and its collectibles sucked), but the second game really clicked with me. Aside from final boss nothing really gave me trouble (some bosses I've killed on the first attempt), and the only kinda bullshit thing I can think of is that enemies hurt you on touch, which is kinda weird considering some of them are coffins and other things that don't look like they'd hurt. The pacing in the second game is improved and I always had some place to go, something to explore or a puzzle to try and figure out.
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Sep 21, 2023 15:53
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If there is a mod to patch in the second game's non-instant kill spikes I would probably play and enjoy the game a lot better
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Sep 21, 2023 16:03
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It's curious that people are citing the walk-around-a-lot as a flaw in a MV, to me that's once of the most crucial parts of the games. Like, I spent a lot of time wandering around Super Metroid unspoilered, I like how it reinforces your familiarity with areas and so when something clicks you immediately know where to go experiment with it. So for Blasphemous 2, I actually felt it was too streamlined. Like I knew what I was supposed to be doing in every area (get to the boss), the path was mostly linear with any revisitation being by my own choice when hunting cherubs in the post-game. I actually felt there was too many fast travel options in patched B1 and B2! I had missed a few obvious things as I never walked past a few rooms a second time ever, oops. ------ On a slightly different topic, people cite Dark Souls influences everywhere, so I just played the first two games a few months ago and I gotta say I'm actually delighted to see the bloodstain mechanic and walk-back-to-the-boss runs trickle across all genres. It's like when bottomless pits started being non-fatal however many decades ago; it's just a straight up improvement that I'm glad to see widely adopted.
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Sep 22, 2023 00:10
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While I think bloodstains and boss runs have their place in some games, estus and enemies respawning on checkpoints are both way more universally good things DS popularized.
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Sep 22, 2023 00:23
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Serephina posted:It's curious that people are citing the walk-around-a-lot as a flaw in a MV, to me that's once of the most crucial parts of the games. Like, I spent a lot of time wandering around Super Metroid unspoilered, I like how it reinforces your familiarity with areas and so when something clicks you immediately know where to go experiment with it. Those are contingent on 1- Cool shortcuts which actually reward your exploration and ingenuity by allowing you to backtrack faster by finding faster alternate routes. This requires excellent level design and hiding the secrets in such a way people will stumble on them with logical experimentation instead of mashing their face into every wall and trying every weapon/traversal technique until something happens (aka Axiom Verge 1). Examples of this in SM are the secret passage back to Brinstar once you find Super Missiles (it's not mandatory and you can actually miss it) and the glass corridor power bomb into Maridia. It also helps when the connections are novel and interesting, vs just some big long hallway with a train system that just takes you to every area since they connect in a line. 2- Having new traversal mechanics to actually get around faster, with the game designed around them and them being part of your kit such that once you get them your mind instantly goes back to, "aha, I can use this to get up to that area here, here, there, and there," which rewards the observant player who explored previously and saw the potential paths. Blasphemous 1's new traversal stuff does let you get to new places, but it's often in obtuse places or it just wasn't clear the first time through that area that that's a place you can get to.
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Sep 22, 2023 00:45
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Fuzz posted:Those are contingent on Yeah, I think that Hollow Knight really captures a lot of this; the 'fly off wall in a straight line' move is absolutely a great option for revisiting old areas.
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Sep 22, 2023 18:21
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Falcon2001 posted:Yeah, I think that Hollow Knight really captures a lot of this; the 'fly off wall in a straight line' move is absolutely a great option for revisiting old areas. I'm a big fan of the Bloodstained traversal ability that turns the whole world upside so the ceiling becomes the floor
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Sep 23, 2023 00:53
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sudonim posted:I'm a big fan of the Bloodstained traversal ability that turns the whole world upside so the ceiling becomes the floor What the hell, I gotta play this
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Sep 23, 2023 01:11
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Tbh, it's less interesting than it sounds. But also I guess fwiw I was pretty cool on Bloodstained. It wasn't bad, mind, just very middle of the road. I think a sequel would really nail it.
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Sep 23, 2023 02:07
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Yeah I liked it well enough but hopefully they figure it out better on the sequel I vaguely remember being announced.
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Sep 23, 2023 02:57
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Falcon2001 posted:Yeah I liked it well enough but hopefully they figure it out better on the sequel I vaguely remember being announced. It hasn't been officially announced yet. It was accidentally leaked, and instead of trying to cover it up, they owned it. Their official statement is that they are going to finish Bloodstained before they officially announce, or even begin work on, the sequel. They have two more modes to release (Chaos and VS), then a few costume DLCs, Classic Mode 2 DLC, and then they'll be done. Kheldarn fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Sep 23, 2023 |
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Sep 23, 2023 03:02
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