mila kunis posted:

im a bit concerned with all the focus lately on america's fail military because it might cause enough panic for some rear end in a top hat to actually fix things

gradenko_2000 posted:

China can build a destroyer faster than Raytheon can build a missile to destroy it with

mila kunis posted:

im a bit concerned with all the focus lately on america's fail military because it might cause enough panic for some rear end in a top hat to actually fix things

Cerebral Bore posted:

the people running burgerland have been isolated from any actual negative consequences of foreign policy failure for so long that they wouldn't bother fixing poo poo even if they were capable of doing so

PsychoInternetHawk posted:

This isn't going to happen so long as there's more money to be made reducing costs to the bare minimum and stripping the leftovers

KomradeX posted:

I was thinking about the counter factual of if Romney mamaged to beat Obama in 2012 since part of what he ran on was expanding the Navy and I realized it didn't matter, the decline was locked in by capitalism. Even if he tried building more ships its hard checked by our greatly reduced productive capacity, just ignoring that much of that money would get hovered up by consultants trying to figure out the best way to get a work force that doesn't know how ro build a ship to make one since an experienced and knowledgeable work force has power and leverage in a labor dispute and they hate the very concept of that. But even ignoring all that if we were able to still have the same number of ships as we did in 2010 ans earlier we still run into the problem of no one's joining the navy so you'd had all these ships with an even thinner skeleton crew. It's pretty drat funny in retrospect

galagazombie posted:

It was okay to murder an American citizen without trial because it was in “combat” against a warring power.
What’s that? We haven’t declared war on Yemen? We haven’t declared war on anyone in 70 years? It was a drone strike and no one was actually engaging in hostilities? He was just sitting around and not actually engaged in hostile action? There wasn’t a battle or anything?

Of course now that they’ve “admitted” it was “collateral damage” while assassinating someone else that immediately makes it beyond reproach.

mila kunis posted:

im a bit concerned with all the focus lately on america's fail military because it might cause enough panic for some rear end in a top hat to actually fix things

Cao Ni Ma posted:

The only solution is to nationalize the arms industry which good luck with that

Palladium posted:

lol they are opening even more pure grift bases in europe while 1/4 of personnel can't even find enough food

Cao Ni Ma posted:

The only solution is to nationalize the arms industry which good luck with that

Ardennes posted:

Also, the US is slowly sleepwalking in a legitimate debt crisis. I know some people disagree, but there are restraints on not only how much you can borrow but also how much you can print. US spending is already unsustainable, even when considering its status as a reserve currency, further moves from the USD are only going to accelerate that trend.

Dawncloack posted:

Hey, you are a cool poster and I am really interested in this.

I used to get super anxious about financial stuff until I realized that every time it on the brink it was solved through a combination of grinding up poor people and kicking money up, and there was never a real crisis.

Of course I do understand stuff about perverse incentives, Scrooge stacks destroying any part of the real economy they touch (like real state), the value of the USD as store of value going to poo poo and other things, etc. and how that undermines the current empire.

But how do you see that debt crisis working out, through which mechanisms?

I just thought it'd be a slow burn, no bangs along the way.

Thank if you find the time to answer and feel free to take this private or to the economics thread, if you don't want to distract the thread from laughing at planes that don't fly in the rain.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Palladium posted:

janet yellen when as fed chair also at least once remarked demand for US treasuries isn't infinite like neolibs think they are

genericnick posted:

The neolibs have been arguing for the exact opposite though? Bond-vigilantes hiding in every shadow. Fiscal discipline! Austerity!
For the record, that's where I strongly disagree with Ardennes. It's not the national debt where the corpses are buried, it's private balance sheets and the everything bubble.

OctaMurk posted:

The Hungarian government has joined forces with Rheinmetall to develop the Panther KF51 through to production maturity. A contract to this effect has now been signed in Zalaegerszeg, Hungary. The development contract is worth around €288 million. A demonstrator vehicle will be constructed and qualified, paving the way to full-scale production. Rheinmetall is cooperating in the project with the state-owned Hungarian holding company N7, which also holds a 49 percent stake in the joint venture Rheinmetall Hungary.

“We’re delighted to have reached another important milestone on the path to producing next-generation fighting vehicles in Hungary”, declares Armin Papperger, CEO of Rheinmetall. “The Panther KF51 is the world's most advanced main battle tank. It sets a new standard for the combat effectiveness of mechanized formations, while delivering a high degree of future adaptability. At the same time, in our accustomed manner, we’ll be empowering our local Joint Venture Rheinmetall Hungary and further strengthen the national defence industrial capabilities of our partners.”

Moving forward together as partners, Hungary and Rheinmetall will jointly develop and prepare for full production the next-generation tank whose concept Rheinmetall first presented to the world public at Eurosatory 2022 trade fair.  Unlike the system demonstrator on show at Eurosatory, the Panther KF51 EVO will be armed with Rheinmetall’s tried-and-tested L55A1 120mm smoothbore gun, which also features in the latest variants of the Leopard 2. This will ensure logistical homogeneity with Hungary’s existing fleet of Leopard 2 tanks. Nevertheless, the Panther KF51 EVO will already be equipped with an autoloader. Moreover, the turret architecture will enable subsequent retrofitting of Rheinmetall’s new 130mm gun.  

The Panther K51 possesses a high degree of digitalization and networkability. Furthermore, new force protection technologies like the standoff protection system StrikeShield will enable a low aggregate weight. Its chassis is based on the Buffalo armoured recovery vehicle, supplied by Rheinmetall. In combination with the tank’s low total weight, this contributes to the Panther KF51’s high mobility, while simultaneously resulting in synergy effects in logistics, maintenance and training owing to commonalities with the Leopard 2 family.

The basic crew of the Panther KF51 consists of three soldiers: the commander, gunner and driver. A fourth station, in front on the lefthand side of the bow, is reserved for a subsystem operator. A company or battalion commander can also use it as a mobile command post.

Sauce: https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/media/news-watch/news/2023/12/2023-12-15-panther-developement-contract-hungary

Ardennes posted:

Yeah, and even materially speaking, the US doesn't have the shipyards for it and even if Romney put more into them, they may still have not been ready yet. Also, all of this costs money while, at the time, the country was still coming out of a recession. Also, you need sailors for an expanded fleet, and the US can't even fully crew its newest carrier.

It is a feel good thing like most politics. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump says something similar and boosts spending even more but there are very clear functional limits of particularly the US Navy.

Also, the US is slowly sleepwalking in a legitimate debt crisis. I know some people disagree, but there are restraints on not only how much you can borrow but also how much you can print. US spending is already unsustainable, even when considering its status as a reserve currency, further moves from the USD are only going to accelerate that trend.

Dongicus posted:

It's Christmas' eve bro.

Cerebral Bore posted:

for a western navy the loss of a regular-rear end warship is a disaster of such proportions that you can't even risk sending one into contested waters

meanwhile china has built about 30 state of the art destroyers in like ten years plus eight of those missile cruisers with more on the way

Ardennes posted:

Yeah, and even materially speaking, the US doesn't have the shipyards for it and even if Romney put more into them, they may still have not been ready yet. Also, all of this costs money while, at the time, the country was still coming out of a recession. Also, you need sailors for an expanded fleet, and the US can't even fully crew its newest carrier.

It is a feel good thing like most politics. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump says something similar and boosts spending even more but there are very clear functional limits of particularly the US Navy.

Also, the US is slowly sleepwalking in a legitimate debt crisis. I know some people disagree, but there are restraints on not only how much you can borrow but also how much you can print. US spending is already unsustainable, even when considering its status as a reserve currency, further moves from the USD are only going to accelerate that trend.

Ardennes posted:

I used to post more in the econ-thread but it is so stock market/BTC centric it is a bit tough and it is just hard to talk about certain issues there.

It is a complex beast, and there are going to be a lot of moving parts and predictions can be invalidated in a second. If a Houthi missile slams into an oil tanker, it is just going to a different trajectory if it doesn't.

That said, the US does have "firepower" in terms of printing but this is in many ways being constrained by a set of factors working together. One is just the raw federal deficit which is increasing due to higher yields on bonds (as well as low taxes/high military spending etc), this is only forcing more bonds to be created (and thus dollars) in order to keep the empire running. At the same time, you have higher than average inflation due to oil prices, which is causing caused higher interest rates and yields. One one hand, inflation will eventually be controlled, but on the other hand, the damage is cumulative, especially if oil prices remain stubbornly high. Furthermore, you have on the side, less countries using the USD in terms of trade, which is innately creating less demand and thus comparatively higher rates. If the Houthis hit a tanker, for example, it would push up oil prices, making the whole thing worse.

The reason why the stock market and housing seem stubbornly high, despite the state of the country, is that they are investment vehicles for the rich, who don't care really about what is going. In the end, they are insulated and can just keep on buying stocks and houses to their hearts content. If anything the more unequal the US gets, the more housing prices and the stock market will probably squeeze the life out of the population. Also, lower oil prices + time usually mean less inflation.

Basically, as the empire shrinks do to fundamental military and economic constraints, and the eventual move is going to grind up the population to extract a little more value from it. The quality of life for average people is going to go down while the media tries to scapegoat anyone it can. In reality, America is already fascist, but it is just going to be a more open form of it.

mila kunis posted:

im a bit concerned with all the focus lately on america's fail military because it might cause enough panic for some rear end in a top hat to actually fix things

DancingShade posted:

Don't worry its a systemic thing and thus completely unfixable.

Ardennes posted:

consumer debt

dead gay comedy forums posted:

For that money to become material (i.e. to bring something like market valuation into realization), real value has to come out from somewhere. That's where the further squeezing of the working class comes in - it loses purchasing power, it pays higher rents, etc.

DancingShade posted:

Don't worry its a systemic thing and thus completely unfixable.

Olga Gurlukovich posted:

I think it's good for America to not have a navy. gently caress mitt romney

dead gay comedy forums posted:

And those who have that awareness of history do know that poo poo tends to happen when rubber hits the road. There's always the possibility of some Belisarios to emerge or a Komnenos to sort out the mess when historical pressure gets high enough against an empire. This didn't ultimately save Byzantium, but it bought time to last much longer than it would otherwise. Of course that the political conditions are very different and much less favorable to the USA (lol liberal democracy), but a sufficiently popular president might be able to afford to Caesar it up a bit, but how such a president would happen when the political structures are completely captured by a vastly rich overclass that has been directly contributing to its own downfall by pursuing the maintenance of wealth?