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and oh yeah, apparently they also have some 50-frigate building program that's been going on for a while and that's over halfway done by this point and this is just what they can do in peacetime mode, but no, in the anglo mind the us could take 'em easy e: and oh yeah, china did all this while also building about half of all new merchant ships in the world Cerebral Bore has issued a correction as of 12:17 on Dec 24, 2023 |
# ? Dec 24, 2023 12:09 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 07:06 |
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im a bit concerned with all the focus lately on america's fail military because it might cause enough panic for some rear end in a top hat to actually fix things
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 12:14 |
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the people running burgerland have been isolated from any actual negative consequences of foreign policy failure for so long that they wouldn't bother fixing poo poo even if they were capable of doing so
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 12:15 |
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mila kunis posted:im a bit concerned with all the focus lately on america's fail military because it might cause enough panic for some rear end in a top hat to actually fix things This isn't going to happen so long as there's more money to be made reducing costs to the bare minimum and stripping the leftovers
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 12:22 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:China can build a destroyer faster than Raytheon can build a missile to destroy it with Raytheon also needs key components for said missile to arrive from China.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 12:23 |
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mila kunis posted:im a bit concerned with all the focus lately on america's fail military because it might cause enough panic for some rear end in a top hat to actually fix things Don't worry its a systemic thing and thus completely unfixable. Cerebral Bore posted:the people running burgerland have been isolated from any actual negative consequences of foreign policy failure for so long that they wouldn't bother fixing poo poo even if they were capable of doing so After all why fix what you can simply sell out? The power of hallowed institutions is more of a historical ideal than current reality. You need a whole lot of things more than someone at the top saying "Hey. Stop it. Knock that off.".
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 12:24 |
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PsychoInternetHawk posted:This isn't going to happen so long as there's more money to be made reducing costs to the bare minimum and stripping the leftovers I was thinking about the counter factual of if Romney mamaged to beat Obama in 2012 since part of what he ran on was expanding the Navy and I realized it didn't matter, the decline was locked in by capitalism. Even if he tried building more ships its hard checked by our greatly reduced productive capacity, just ignoring that much of that money would get hovered up by consultants trying to figure out the best way to get a work force that doesn't know how ro build a ship to make one since an experienced and knowledgeable work force has power and leverage in a labor dispute and they hate the very concept of that. But even ignoring all that if we were able to still have the same number of ships as we did in 2010 ans earlier we still run into the problem of no one's joining the navy so you'd had all these ships with an even thinner skeleton crew. It's pretty drat funny in retrospect
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 13:00 |
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I think it's good for America to not have a navy. gently caress mitt romney
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 13:09 |
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china striking the iran-saudi-yemen deal while the nordstream is hot is paying off in ways they can't even imagine for a price of airfare and hotel
Palladium has issued a correction as of 14:20 on Dec 24, 2023 |
# ? Dec 24, 2023 13:13 |
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KomradeX posted:I was thinking about the counter factual of if Romney mamaged to beat Obama in 2012 since part of what he ran on was expanding the Navy and I realized it didn't matter, the decline was locked in by capitalism. Even if he tried building more ships its hard checked by our greatly reduced productive capacity, just ignoring that much of that money would get hovered up by consultants trying to figure out the best way to get a work force that doesn't know how ro build a ship to make one since an experienced and knowledgeable work force has power and leverage in a labor dispute and they hate the very concept of that. But even ignoring all that if we were able to still have the same number of ships as we did in 2010 ans earlier we still run into the problem of no one's joining the navy so you'd had all these ships with an even thinner skeleton crew. It's pretty drat funny in retrospect Yeah, and even materially speaking, the US doesn't have the shipyards for it and even if Romney put more into them, they may still have not been ready yet. Also, all of this costs money while, at the time, the country was still coming out of a recession. Also, you need sailors for an expanded fleet, and the US can't even fully crew its newest carrier. It is a feel good thing like most politics. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump says something similar and boosts spending even more but there are very clear functional limits of particularly the US Navy. Also, the US is slowly sleepwalking in a legitimate debt crisis. I know some people disagree, but there are restraints on not only how much you can borrow but also how much you can print. US spending is already unsustainable, even when considering its status as a reserve currency, further moves from the USD are only going to accelerate that trend. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 14:05 on Dec 24, 2023 |
# ? Dec 24, 2023 14:02 |
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galagazombie posted:It was okay to murder an American citizen without trial because it was in “combat” against a warring power. To be fair, the US has actually declared war on someone in the last 70 years. The Hague invasion act is technically a declaration of war.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 14:02 |
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mila kunis posted:im a bit concerned with all the focus lately on america's fail military because it might cause enough panic for some rear end in a top hat to actually fix things The only solution is to nationalize the arms industry which good luck with that
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 14:18 |
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Cao Ni Ma posted:The only solution is to nationalize the arms industry which good luck with that lol they are opening even more pure grift bases in europe while 1/4 of personnel can't even find enough food
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 14:22 |
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Palladium posted:lol they are opening even more pure grift bases in europe while 1/4 of personnel can't even find enough food "jeeeeez first you complain about mold in your barracks, then about not enough food; free mushrooms, dumbass!"
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 14:24 |
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Cao Ni Ma posted:The only solution is to nationalize the arms industry which good luck with that I mean it's not just the arms industry. Our proxy war with Russia would go a lot better if the "free" market wouldn't feel safe to just use the news of inflation to coordinate general prize increases.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 14:25 |
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Ardennes posted:Also, the US is slowly sleepwalking in a legitimate debt crisis. I know some people disagree, but there are restraints on not only how much you can borrow but also how much you can print. US spending is already unsustainable, even when considering its status as a reserve currency, further moves from the USD are only going to accelerate that trend. Hey, you are a cool poster and I am really interested in this. I used to get super anxious about financial stuff until I realized that every time it on the brink it was solved through a combination of grinding up poor people and kicking money up, and there was never a real crisis. Of course I do understand stuff about perverse incentives, Scrooge stacks destroying any part of the real economy they touch (like real state), the value of the USD as store of value going to poo poo and other things, etc. and how that undermines the current empire. But how do you see that debt crisis working out, through which mechanisms? I just thought it'd be a slow burn, no bangs along the way. Thank if you find the time to answer and feel free to take this private or to the economics thread, if you don't want to distract the thread from laughing at planes that don't fly in the rain.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 14:34 |
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Dawncloack posted:Hey, you are a cool poster and I am really interested in this. I used to post more in the econ-thread but it is so stock market/BTC centric it is a bit tough and it is just hard to talk about certain issues there. It is a complex beast, and there are going to be a lot of moving parts and predictions can be invalidated in a second. If a Houthi missile slams into an oil tanker, it is just going to a different trajectory if it doesn't. That said, the US does have "firepower" in terms of printing but this is in many ways being constrained by a set of factors working together. One is just the raw federal deficit which is increasing due to higher yields on bonds (as well as low taxes/high military spending etc), this is only forcing more bonds to be created (and thus dollars) in order to keep the empire running. At the same time, you have higher than average inflation due to oil prices, which is causing caused higher interest rates and yields. One one hand, inflation will eventually be controlled, but on the other hand, the damage is cumulative, especially if oil prices remain stubbornly high. Furthermore, you have on the side, less countries using the USD in terms of trade, which is innately creating less demand and thus comparatively higher rates. If the Houthis hit a tanker, for example, it would push up oil prices, making the whole thing worse. The reason why the stock market and housing seem stubbornly high, despite the state of the country, is that they are investment vehicles for the rich, who don't care really about what is going. In the end, they are insulated and can just keep on buying stocks and houses to their hearts content. If anything the more unequal the US gets, the more housing prices and the stock market will probably squeeze the life out of the population. Also, lower oil prices + time usually mean less inflation. Basically, as the empire shrinks do to fundamental military and economic constraints, and the eventual move is going to grind up the population to extract a little more value from it. The quality of life for average people is going to go down while the media tries to scapegoat anyone it can. In reality, America is already fascist, but it is just going to be a more open form of it. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 15:02 on Dec 24, 2023 |
# ? Dec 24, 2023 14:47 |
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janet yellen when as fed chair also at least once remarked demand for US treasuries isn't infinite like neolibs think they are
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 14:52 |
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 15:03 |
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Ok, fair enough, it sounded like you thought there was specific crisis brewing, besides the omnicrisis. Thanks! (I meant this for Ardennes)
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 15:06 |
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america can afford anything but can it get it, janet?
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 15:09 |
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click to be vicariously embarrassed again by mpls hip hop scene (at least it's not sex creep stuff) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bgikOGb0rw
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 15:09 |
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Palladium posted:janet yellen when as fed chair also at least once remarked demand for US treasuries isn't infinite like neolibs think they are The neolibs have been arguing for the exact opposite though? Bond-vigilantes hiding in every shadow. Fiscal discipline! Austerity! For the record, that's where I strongly disagree with Ardennes. It's not the national debt where the corpses are buried, it's private balance sheets and the everything bubble.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 15:14 |
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genericnick posted:The neolibs have been arguing for the exact opposite though? Bond-vigilantes hiding in every shadow. Fiscal discipline! Austerity! It is both really, but the ability of the US to sustain a bailout is sharply restrained by yields and total debt. In the end, some will be bailed out, but the US may not be able to bail out everyone like back in the day. Corporate debt and consumer debt is just way too high at the moment. It is why an debt crisis really is perhaps more of an issue than many think. That said, I think cspam gets a bit of a blinder on as far as public debt because of the Euro-crisis. Austerity politics very clearly just makes it worse, but at the same time, eventually public debt can be out of control, even if it is a way for the private sector to unload itself on the public sector. The EU back in the day should have acted quickly and bailed out southern Europe than letting things fester for years, but in turn should have demanded more capital control than austerity. Obviously they just decided in the end to blow their foot off.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 15:26 |
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OctaMurk posted:The Hungarian government has joined forces with Rheinmetall to develop the Panther KF51 through to production maturity. A contract to this effect has now been signed in Zalaegerszeg, Hungary. The development contract is worth around €288 million. A demonstrator vehicle will be constructed and qualified, paving the way to full-scale production. Rheinmetall is cooperating in the project with the state-owned Hungarian holding company N7, which also holds a 49 percent stake in the joint venture Rheinmetall Hungary. So they gave up on the more nutty ideas?
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 16:20 |
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Ardennes posted:Yeah, and even materially speaking, the US doesn't have the shipyards for it and even if Romney put more into them, they may still have not been ready yet. Also, all of this costs money while, at the time, the country was still coming out of a recession. Also, you need sailors for an expanded fleet, and the US can't even fully crew its newest carrier. It's Christmas' eve bro.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 18:19 |
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Dongicus posted:It's Christmas' eve bro. I considering it a heart warming US will lose ww3 story.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 18:22 |
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Re: Anwar Al-Awlaki: Don't forget that when both he and his son were still alive his father sued the US government to try to get them to take him off the kill list, but the courts ruled that he lacked standing, and the only one with standing to file said suit was Anwar Al-Awlaki himself, who should just hand himself in to the US authorities (who, again and I cannot stress this enough, had put him on a kill list) and then according to the courts said authorities would give him a fair trial. Oh and also 6 years after they killed his son they also killed his 8 year old daughter, also a US citizen, in the Trump-authorized raid on Yemen.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 18:28 |
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^^^ jfc Re: Ardennes. They might not be able to bail everyone,now I get what you mean! Yeah that makes sense.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 18:33 |
Cerebral Bore posted:for a western navy the loss of a regular-rear end warship is a disaster of such proportions that you can't even risk sending one into contested waters I keep telling my friends that the US beating China in a war is not the least bit guaranteed and no matter how many times I point out the hull numbers and the fact they have more and better shipyards than us they still they it’s 1942 and we can just ramp up or beat them with our super awesome technology and also negate home field advantage. Reports by Navy Admirals noting this are dismissed as fodder for MIC grift, which is also true. When ships start getting sunk and entire air wings are attrited to nothing, I get to say I told you so for about a couple weeks before sore loser Americans put me in an interment camp or lynch me for my last name, and I’m not even Chinese. When Americans fail, they do racism to feel better.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 18:37 |
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Ardennes posted:Yeah, and even materially speaking, the US doesn't have the shipyards for it and even if Romney put more into them, they may still have not been ready yet. Also, all of this costs money while, at the time, the country was still coming out of a recession. Also, you need sailors for an expanded fleet, and the US can't even fully crew its newest carrier. Whats funny is a smart country looking to come out of an economic crisis and looking to expand its military would do something like hire people to start expanding that capacity and paying people more to build ships and raise wages in the military and even hire even more people to do comeplete renovations on bases that haven't been updated since the 40s. But lol Neoliberalism decided that brand names were more powerful than factories and labels, so instead we give McKinsey billions to privitize the kitchens and the motor pool
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 18:45 |
Ardennes posted:I used to post more in the econ-thread but it is so stock market/BTC centric it is a bit tough and it is just hard to talk about certain issues there. I haven’t heard anyone talk about bitcoins in a while in the Econ thread, and I’d certainly welcome this kind of analysis. I’m committing IK aligned warships to defend the channel and lift the blockade! *half the coalition fucks off*
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 18:57 |
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mila kunis posted:im a bit concerned with all the focus lately on america's fail military because it might cause enough panic for some rear end in a top hat to actually fix things DancingShade posted:Don't worry its a systemic thing and thus completely unfixable.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 19:03 |
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Ardennes posted:consumer debt Another recent hit from the Marxism thread. A way to summarize the problems of heavily financialized economies is that they make too much fictitious capital, too fast; and it gets worse depending on how much concentrated wealth there is in the society. For that money to become material (i.e. to bring something like market valuation into realization), real value has to come out from somewhere. That's where the further squeezing of the working class comes in - it loses purchasing power, it pays higher rents, etc.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 19:05 |
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dead gay comedy forums posted:For that money to become material (i.e. to bring something like market valuation into realization), real value has to come out from somewhere. That's where the further squeezing of the working class comes in - it loses purchasing power, it pays higher rents, etc. you could say the neoliberal era has been about paying labor less than it’s socially necessary value — less than the value needed to reproduce itself — and the difference has been made up with debt. on the other side, the space between the cost production and the price of exchange has been completely colonized by rent seeking parasites. this explains why the us is losing ww3: labor is immiserated and imprisoned in debt. capital is parasitic, destroying all the value of the productive forces by extracting monopoly rents from every step of the process. the result is that takes a billion dollars in so-called capital to produce one missile per quarter. but hey at least the shareholders are happy
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 19:17 |
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DancingShade posted:Don't worry its a systemic thing and thus completely unfixable. mila kunis is right though. Issues are fixable. Historical-dialectical materialism shows that every social structure is malleable and one of the major philosophical innovations (so to speak) was the idea of the historical subject, the subject that makes history; in its modern sense, the revolutionary idea of directing history comes from there. That notion was partially appropriated and perverted by some (perhaps the most notable of them was Mussolini, former member of the Communist Party of Italy), but it is firmly revolutionary at its core. I am rambling a bit because it's critical to emphasize that those structures can be changed, transformed and rebuilt, especially to make people see that there are alternatives: "A World to Win" and all that. And those who have that awareness of history do know that poo poo tends to happen when rubber hits the road. There's always the possibility of some Belisarios to emerge or a Komnenos to sort out the mess when historical pressure gets high enough against an empire. This didn't ultimately save Byzantium, but it bought time to last much longer than it would otherwise. Of course that the political conditions are very different and much less favorable to the USA (lol liberal democracy), but a sufficiently popular president might be able to afford to Caesar it up a bit, but how such a president would happen when the political structures are completely captured by a vastly rich overclass that has been directly contributing to its own downfall by pursuing the maintenance of wealth?
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 20:12 |
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Olga Gurlukovich posted:I think it's good for America to not have a navy. gently caress mitt romney https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZTNS54Vl1c Obama is, truly, the peak of a smug technocratic dipshit who doesn't know what the gently caress he's talking about
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 20:16 |
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also by having referenced the Byzantine Empire I think this syncs up with ff coming back online with an extra ritual boost or something
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 20:20 |
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dead gay comedy forums posted:And those who have that awareness of history do know that poo poo tends to happen when rubber hits the road. There's always the possibility of some Belisarios to emerge or a Komnenos to sort out the mess when historical pressure gets high enough against an empire. This didn't ultimately save Byzantium, but it bought time to last much longer than it would otherwise. Of course that the political conditions are very different and much less favorable to the USA (lol liberal democracy), but a sufficiently popular president might be able to afford to Caesar it up a bit, but how such a president would happen when the political structures are completely captured by a vastly rich overclass that has been directly contributing to its own downfall by pursuing the maintenance of wealth? We already got the popular president wielding executive power to unfuck the structures of the empire by overruling the personal desires of the previous ruling class for their own long-term good. The tiny test dose of central planning they applied to the US rocketed it into the stratosphere and secured global dominance for decades. The bourgeoisie never forgave him for this and made it illegal to ever try that again.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 21:04 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 07:06 |
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It’s funny. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country has switched from a story about the end of the Soviet Union to being about America. Where everything said about the Klingons now applies to the US. The United States of Qo'noS.
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# ? Dec 24, 2023 21:11 |