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If that basement/castle excavation had taken place 15 years earlier, she would have been posting a legendary thread on SA
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Jan 1, 2024 03:17
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The other thing with going with the Q350 center now, is that you can upgrade to Q350's for your Front speakers later and move the Q150's back to act as your rear speakers 
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Jan 1, 2024 07:20
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Mederlock posted:The other thing with going with the Q350 center now, is that you can upgrade to Q350's for your Front speakers later and move the Q150's back to act as your rear speakers 
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Jan 1, 2024 07:23
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I'm currently looking for a soundsystem for our TV (mostly for movie watching). I don't know anything about speaker setups so buying a soundbar with a subwoofer is very tempting, they seem to be fairly affordable and the sleek looks + minimal wiring is important (even if I had l/r speakers they could only go about 50cm further apart than the ends of the soundbar anyway). Still I'm trying to work out what 3.1 setup I could actually get and it's a lot more effort than just picking the appropriate product out of Samsung or whoever's lineup! One thing that I'm stuck on is that I don't have that much space for a receiver since it needs to share a space with the various TV accessories. Are there any small, affordable (total cost including speakers would ideally be in the 400-700 euro range) receivers that are recommended? Height is the main issue, something under 10cm would be ideal.
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Jan 2, 2024 12:28
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distortion park posted:I'm currently looking for a soundsystem for our TV (mostly for movie watching). I don't know anything about speaker setups so buying a soundbar with a subwoofer is very tempting, they seem to be fairly affordable and the sleek looks + minimal wiring is important (even if I had l/r speakers they could only go about 50cm further apart than the ends of the soundbar anyway). I can't think of any AVRs that are that thin. The Marantz NR1200 is the closest, but it's still over 10cm and would eat most of your budget. Don't forget you need 3cm+ of clearance on top so the heat can escape. Would be easier to consider a 2.1 set up since you can get a smaller dac/amp to power everything. Or just stick with a soundbar.
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Jan 2, 2024 16:33
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At your budget I'd personally be looking at a pair of powered speakers, I'm not super familiar with euro pricing but stuff like the Triangle BR03 Connect or Klipsch The Fives might be a good place to start. A speakers' characteristics and capability are defined by the size of the drivers, the size/shape/weight of the cabinet, their position in the room and the electronics inside. In a soundbar they basically put all their character points into the last thing because they let people's desire to not have large, box-shaped speakers away from the TV define every other aspect of the design. Some of them apparently almost sound ok because of all the effort they put into DSP but they tend to be the ones that cost the same or more than a traditional speaker/amp setup. Additionally the subwoofers they come with are generally pretty sad compared to the real thing [this is just physics, a 6" woofer in a five pound plastic enclosure simply can't output bass like a 12" one in a HDF box the size of a mini fridge]. Other options: On the higher end there's stuff like WiSA where you can use a small hub to send audio wirelessly to speakers from vendors like Buchardt, B&O, Dynaudio, Piega, Canton and Dali. Most of these start well north of 1000 euro to get started and go to "gently caress you." There's also compact stereo amps like the Sonos Amp, NAD M10/C700, Lyngdorf 1120 or Bluesound Powernode [plus cheaper options from companies like Wiim and Arylic] that have a HDMI ARC input then drive normal passive speakers.
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Jan 2, 2024 16:56
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qirex posted:At your budget I'd personally be looking at a pair of powered speakers, I'm not super familiar with euro pricing but stuff like the Triangle BR03 Connect or Klipsch The Fives might be a good place to start. Those Triangle Connect ones are interesting, they fit the room's look and are in budget at about 650eur. One of my main motivations for looking at 3.0 systems was that the center channel apparently makes dialogue a lot clearer. Will just a stereo setup also work ok for that? The room is 3.5m*5m. There's no chance of a mini fridge sized.subwoofer going in there anyday, I'll be happy to upgrade over the TV speakers! There's a cinema 5 minute cycle away I go to fairly regularly for the full experience. distortion park fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jan 2, 2024 |
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Jan 2, 2024 17:24
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Yea a stereo set up will work fine. Dialogue intelligibility mostly comes down to the sound mix. If it's bad, you can try to compensate by pumping up the output of the center channel but it may end up being poo poo regardless and that's not the fault of your speakers or set up.
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Jan 2, 2024 18:10
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distortion park posted:Those Triangle Connect ones are interesting, they fit the room's look and are in budget at about 650eur. 3.0/3.1 ain't worth it. At your budget you want to put the bulk of your money into bigger drivers, and you can't rly do that effectively and split that across three speakers while also buying a surround receiver (there are no three channel receivers, but any modern 5.1+ reciever will do 3 speaker). Also, you really should add a sub of some kind, and if you really can't, then I'd try to get the biggest speakers that you can. Dialogue may arguably be clearer with a center channel but that's really dependent on the mix itself, like CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK said, and AFAIK most 3-channel mixes are just a five channel mix with the surround channels downmixed into the front L and R. In terms of "market share" (ie the proportional share of mixes being used), the stereo mix is by far the most commonly listened to, followed by 5.1 and probably then by whatever ATMOS/spatial poo poo Apple has going with their headphones through their own distribution channels, and then everything else. Good mastering/mixing houses will put more work into making the stereo mix sound good than in making some hyper-fancy 13 channel soundtrack that only 50 rich guys will hear sound good. TLDR: getting the best sounding stereo should be your priority, unless your goal with 3-channel is to expand to 5.1 in the future (and even then, getting the best sounding stereo should be your priority, and also the vast bulk of media you consume will likely be in stereo) Value kings are: 2.0/2.1 and 5.1. If you can add a second subwoofer and your room audio characteristics benefit from it then that's where I'd go next. Anything bigger than that or weirder than that and you should really know what you're doing and why. Anyway, back to what I was saying: get the biggest L+R speakers you can. If you can get/fit floorstanders, get floorstanders, and that will make not having a sub a bit better. Do try to get a sub (you can wait a bit and get it separately or in a year or two, etc). Even a decent 8 inch or 10 inch sub will make a huge difference, and also allow you to comfortably run much smaller speakers while still getting that "cinematic" experience. At my old place my ex and I were running a pair of 4.5" speakers and a nice 8" sub and it sounded fantastic in our tiny living room. Totally matched the 65" TV and made for a cozy movie nook. Upgrading to 5.25" filled it out nicely (and 6.5" probably would've been even better), but they weren't as pretty. You can get away with quite small speakers if you have a good enough sub.
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Jan 2, 2024 20:32
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distortion park posted:One of my main motivations for looking at 3.0 systems was that the center channel apparently makes dialogue a lot clearer. Will just a stereo setup also work ok for that? The room is 3.5m*5m. Also a lot of things are just mixed with the dialog intentionally unintelligible now, kind of like how they shoot well lit scenes then turn them to mud in post with dark-rear end color grading to look "more realistic." e: as far as a sub if you get decent speakers the bass level will blow away any soundbar sub that comes with a set in your price range.
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Jan 3, 2024 00:09
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qirex posted:e: as far as a sub if you get decent speakers the bass level will blow away any soundbar sub that comes with a set in your price range. this is true You can get a good 2 channel receiver or amp for as little as ~$99-150 new or even less used (do your parents have one kicking around in their attic?) and spend the bulk of your budget on two good speakers. Good small subs tend to start around $300 new (Accesories4Less often has various decent small subs for less than $200 but IDK if they're economical to buy from where you live), or like $500-600 if you're talking SVS, so maybe put it all into speakers. You might find a good powered speaker set in your budget, and they're worth looking at for sure, but keep in mind that you still pay for the amplification. If you can shop at A4L, you could put together a neat setup using just their options, or at least pick up your receiver or speakers there or whatever
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Jan 3, 2024 00:28
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I'm a nerd but I've never gotten much into audio stuff and I don't really want to now. But, I have a bitchin' TV and now I would like some bitchin' speakers to go with it. This will be mostly for watching movies (lots of 4K blu-rays with Dolby Atmos tracks). I'm thinking about getting a Sonos system (Arc, Sub3, and 2x Era 300s). Please tell me why this is a bad idea that I will regret. What would be better? I just want something simple that sounds good for movies. Don't really care about price as long as its below $3K). I'm in an apartment so I can't really install anything cool like ceiling speakers or in wall wires.
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Jan 5, 2024 00:40
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Get some kick rear end headphones instead!
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Jan 5, 2024 01:12
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SeductiveReasoning posted:I'm a nerd but I've never gotten much into audio stuff and I don't really want to now. But, I have a bitchin' TV and now I would like some bitchin' speakers to go with it. This will be mostly for watching movies (lots of 4K blu-rays with Dolby Atmos tracks). No Sonos, you don't want to be locked into one system. Plus they had a history of dropping support for products. $500 for a receiver that supports the features you need (Atmos won't matter if you don't have speakers on the ceiling): https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/avreceiver/home-audio/receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html Probably no subwoofer, since you are in an apartment, I would start with five CBM-170SE which would cost $866 https://ascendacoustics.com/collections/signature-series/products/cbm-170-se-bookshelf-monitor That would be an outstanding 5.0 surround system for <$1500 I would add a Rythmik subwoofer for $1100 if your neighbors don't mind. https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12.html Fozzy The Bear fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jan 5, 2024 |
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Jan 5, 2024 01:39
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I have Arc, 2x Sub3, and 2x Era 300s and love it to bits. I used to have a built 5.1 system and wanted to simplify. It's super overkill for an apartment, though. You'll have it in quiet mode the whole time. But if you have the money and don't want to fiddle with stuff, it's quite enjoyable. People in this thread will recommend you better solutions for less money, though.
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Jan 5, 2024 02:47
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To echo other posters, Sonos is great at what it does, but also overpriced for the sound that it provides and not upgrade/mixing components friendly. Fozzys suggestions are good if you want a full surround system now. The following would also be a good way to get a full system now that has a bit more of the fancy matching aesthetic and upward firing Atmos channels built into the towers (not typically as effective as in ceiling): https://slickdeals.net/f/17150614-k...teSearchV2Algo1 Add a receiver from A4L like this https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/denavrx2700h/denon-avr-x2700h-7.2-ch-x-95-watts-8k-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html and you're good to go. Note: there's another $3400 deal that pairs a high end Yamaha receiver with those speakers but it's overkill. The footprint on a system like this may also be overkill for your apartment. My personal recommendation would be to grab a receiver that has the capabilities you will eventually need for 500-800 and then drop the rest of your current budget on the front R+L and upgrade piecemeal with whatever other components most interest you (center, sub, surround etc.). Your front R+L matter most for both movies and music, and dropping 2k on them now will get you something you can be happy with pretty much forever. aparmenideanmonad fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jan 5, 2024 |
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Jan 5, 2024 03:39
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One Sonos option a lot of people overlook is the Amp, you can still use wireless speakers for surround but you can buy your own speakers and sub for the front. Sure it's 2 channel but you can get great speakers and subs much cheaper than going full Sonos. I will never understand why they never made a 3 channel version of the Amp, seems like a no brainer product. Also, it's pretty specious to say they have a reputation for dropping support for their products, the whole S1/S2 thing a few years back was because they hadn't dropped support for a single product for the first 12 years they were in business. It was a self-created situation and they handled it badly but eventually got on the right track.
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Jan 6, 2024 01:12
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qirex posted:One Sonos option a lot of people overlook is the Amp, you can still use wireless speakers for surround but you can buy your own speakers and sub for the front. Sure it's 2 channel but you can get great speakers and subs much cheaper than going full Sonos. I will never understand why they never made a 3 channel version of the Amp, seems like a no brainer product. The problem I have is if the Sonos company goes bankrupt you have a $700 paperweight. I want to own my equipment, not lease it.
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Jan 6, 2024 05:19
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Fozzy The Bear posted:The problem I have is if the Sonos company goes bankrupt you have a $700 paperweight. I want to own my equipment, not lease it. Counterpoint: if you have an Onkyo, Pioneer or Integra receiver older than 2 years it’s basically unserviceable.
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Jan 6, 2024 05:30
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qirex posted:Counterpoint: if you have an Onkyo, Pioneer or Integra receiver older than 2 years it’s basically unserviceable. Exactly, my Pioneer AVR is 13 years old, the company folded and got absorbed by another company. But none of that matters because I am not dependent on an internet connection for continued functionality.
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Jan 6, 2024 05:44
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That's not a counterpoint, that's another example of brands not to trust.
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Jan 6, 2024 05:45
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the only brand we can trust is Yamaha
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Jan 6, 2024 05:47
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Sonos also works because of how networks and poo poo work, not necessarily because some company server gets shut down. It'd be a bit different if the tech was reliant on subscriptions or it was set to fail if it detected you were not upgrading to a newer unit, but it works totally fine offline, as long as the LAN is running. As far as smart poo poo goes it's pretty independent from the Internet, or so I thought unless something changed.
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Jan 6, 2024 06:51
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Wasabi the J posted:Sonos also works because of how networks and poo poo work, not necessarily because some company server gets shut down. Oops, I was wrong, I mixed it up. What I meant was that you can't use the device without the Sonos software on your phone. There are no physical buttons to press on the front of the device to change from Line 1 to Optical for example. But the amp itself is suppose to have good quality sound. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Fozzy The Bear fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jan 6, 2024 |
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Jan 6, 2024 19:24
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edit : wrong thad
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Jan 6, 2024 21:37
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I ran into a mandatory internet version check when trying to re-setup my Sonos devices on a different network last week. It might do playback ok offline, but if Sonos the company dies the devices will be useless long term unless someone does some hacking. It's a pretty slick system for multi room audio and the stuff is quality and sounds good for the size. IMO the limitations and cost are too much to want to use it to build out a big main stereo system.
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Jan 7, 2024 07:37
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emocrat posted:Does anyone have suggestions for the following: this a weird demand when you can turn a volume knob to a desired position and leave it there
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Jan 8, 2024 11:57
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It might be for kids or something where people you don't want could change the volume. All amps kind of need a way to change the volume somehow, but some more feature-rich ones allow you to set a max volume or otherwise lock out the controls. There are also some that need a screwdriver to adjust. Would that work?
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Jan 8, 2024 15:14
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So thats something I have with my old Phase Linear, the preamp does the volume control, then it goes through an EQ, then the power amp unit is just a fixed gain, no knobs or anything. That allows the power amp to have a very consistent frequency response. Seems pretty rare in consumer goods these days. I hope the Schiit one you found works for you. If you really want those specific requirements with something more custom you're probably going to be buying piecemeal off of parts-express. They've got a huge selection and you can just take an amp and instead of wiring a knob just connect a fixed resistor in whatever enclosure you make. Something like a Sure Electronics AA-AB32174. But thats a lot of extra effort M_Gargantua fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 15:26
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KillHour posted:All amps kind of need a way to change the volume somehow Amps that are actually just amps and not receivers usually don't have a way to change the volume.
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Jan 8, 2024 15:47
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There's a bunch of "just amps" out there, if you're OK with Schiit pricing there's more affordable options using Hypex/Ncore modules from companies like Apollon, VTV, Buckeye, Audiophonics, DIY Class D, etc. They will be more accurate, efficient and generate a ton less heat then AB designs. For many of the cheap tripath amps [Topping, Fosi, SMSL, etc.] volume control is built into the amplifier chip itself so there's no reason for them to leave it out.
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Jan 8, 2024 16:28
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Palladium posted:this a weird demand when you can turn a volume knob to a desired position and leave it there Sure, but if that was a solution that worked well for me I wouldn't be asking for advice, I would just buy one the many options and be on my way. I don't think im being obstinate or unreasonable, just looking for something a little more specific. KillHour posted:It might be for kids or something where people you don't want could change the volume. All amps kind of need a way to change the volume somehow, but some more feature-rich ones allow you to set a max volume or otherwise lock out the controls. There are also some that need a screwdriver to adjust. Would that work? Its partly/mostly this. The location is in a living room and theres no good option to lock it away. I have kids, and kids have friends and we host family and friends a lot. They all use the audio system and in my experience setups like this (which I have used before) end up causing issues that range from annoyance (most common) up to potentially damaging gear (rare). None of it is the end of the world of course and as I said above I may go this route, just searching for reasonable affordable alternatives first.
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Jan 8, 2024 17:26
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If that's the case then get a receiver with a max volume limiter, IMO. If other people are going to use it they're going to want to adjust the volume.
qirex fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 17:46
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bird with big dick posted:Amps that are actually just amps and not receivers usually don't have a way to change the volume. Do you have an example? Something like a Crown or Behringer power amp, or even a car subwoofer amp is going to have some way to change the volume - even if it's just a hole you stick a screwdriver in to adjust a potentiometer. Speakers have different sensitivities, so you need a way to set what max output is. I genuinely can't think of any amp I've ever seen without a way to change the volume at all. qirex posted:If that's the case then get a receiver with a max volume limiter, IMO. If other people are going to use it they're going to want to adjust the volume. This is the answer. Most decent receivers have a way to set a max volume level in the settings and while you can theoretically turn it off, it's not likely someone will just casually do that. I think some even let you lock out the physical controls so you need to use the remote, but I don't have a list or anything. Edit: 
KillHour fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 18:15
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qirex posted:If other people are going to use it they're going to want to adjust the volume. 99% of users would use a cell phone as source, which has software volume control.
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Jan 8, 2024 18:59
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I think given the weeklong break in this discussion some of the original context has been lost (understandable). The actual reason this came up is not because it currently doesn't function, (it does!) but because I want to swap out the amplifier I use now for a small form factor one. The primary driver is just reclaiming shelf space in our living room. Also, the source is a Sonos port hooked to an amp hooked to bookshelf speakers. So, yes, 100% of the users would be connecting to use this via phone or tablet, including kids. I understand why, missing that context, a receiver would be suggested, but in this case it would be a big step backwards. Some of the suggestions above actually lead to the exact type if thing I want, for example: https://www.schiit.com/products/gjallarhorn however getting this with enough power seems like its beyond what I want to spend to solve my somewhat minor problem. I appreciate all the advice that has been offered. KillHour posted:Do you have an example? Tons. Almost anything sold as hifi dedicated amp is built this way. Here a few examples picked at random. Monolith Emotiva most but not all of these here: Crutchfield In fact the amp I am using for this purpose right now (an older 2 channel Rotel) is that way. emocrat fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 19:31
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KillHour posted:Do you have an example? https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43863 ?? e: waited too long to post 
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Jan 8, 2024 19:34
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When you say "Not enough power", what volumes do you actually run? My office setup is a pair of Klipsch R-51M's, which are rated at 85W each, with good sensitivity at 93 dB @ 2.83V/1M, driving even 15W into them is almost too loud for the room
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Jan 8, 2024 20:22
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emocrat posted:Some of the suggestions above actually lead to the exact type if thing I want, for example: https://www.schiit.com/products/gjallarhorn however getting this with enough power seems like its beyond what I want to spend to solve my somewhat minor problem. I appreciate all the advice that has been offered.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:38
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M_Gargantua posted:When you say "Not enough power", what volumes do you actually run? Nothing crazy but decently loud in large room with 10 foot ceilings. I totally agree that I don't need 100 watts or whatever, but the Schiit Rekkr only outputs 2 and I don't think that's enough. The step up from there, the GJALLARHORN, is 15 watts which, could be enough by im pretty hesitant to drop the 300 they want for it and just chance it.
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Jan 8, 2024 20:40
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