(Thread IKs:
OwlFancier)
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shooting at a bunch of civilian ship crew seems pretty bad to me regardless of who’s doing it
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Jan 13, 2024 14:50
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Shooting at people in any instance is bad but that's not an enormously useful observation.
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Jan 13, 2024 15:04
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Julio Cruz posted:shooting at a bunch of civilian ship crew seems pretty bad to me regardless of who’s doing it One day you’ll have a not-poo poo opinion but apparently it isn’t today. The Yemeni govt., referred to by the west as ‘the Houthis’ to make them sound threatening, are the only state to do anything material to stop the currently happening genocide in Palestine. They’ve done this without killing a single person. It’s absolutely remarkable. Tell me JC, if you controlled the Bab El-Mandeb, what would you be doing? Obnoxiously whining doesn’t count.
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Jan 13, 2024 15:09
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Are the Houthis the government? They're rebels? There seem to be some other dudes who say they are the government. They just don't seem to be in control. Much like our own government.
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Jan 13, 2024 15:17
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Maybe the plan is to soak up so many US and UK bombs, there'll be none left to give to Israel
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Jan 13, 2024 15:21
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Yemen is like Ukraine in that it used to be The Yemen but for whatever Geopolitical reason we had to drop the The?
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Jan 13, 2024 15:23
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The easiest way to get the Houthis to stop all this would be to tell Israel to quit genociding Palestinians and rebuild Gaza But that's appeasement and sounds like something Jeremy Corbyn would suggest so we have to have a slowly escalating war with the Houthis because they're the only ones taking a stand. I don't think an economic blockade by the Houthis is a good idea, since the US response was pretty inevitable, but it does show up the USA as huge hypocrites who care more about shipping sex arses around than genocide.
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Jan 13, 2024 15:24
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Obviously, directly attacking civilian shipping headed to Israeli ports isn't the most squeaky-clean form of activism, but it's a standard tactic of economic warfare that appears to be just as effective here as it is whenever anyone else blockades a hostile country's trade routes (which is pretty much what every serious international military campaign involves, isn't it?). Eliat port, for instance, has seen an 85% drop in traffic.
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Jan 13, 2024 15:25
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Yeah I think the news is deliberately avoiding calling this a blockade, because it might make people consider what happens to civilian ships when they try to run a blockade anywhere else in the world. (They don't get picked up in a big net.  )
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Jan 13, 2024 15:30
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Are the Houthis the government? They're rebels? There seem to be some other dudes who say they are the government. They just don't seem to be in control. Much like our own government. Yes, they de facto control Yemen. If a group is administering all civil, legal and military functions in an area of land it’s usually called a government, unless the west needs it to be rebels.
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Jan 13, 2024 15:39
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This might be considered a "Good News" story: Not UK but I'm quite (pleasantly) surprised at US Girl Scouts https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/2024-trans-girl-scouts-to-order-cookies quote:2024 Trans Girl Scouts To Order Cookies From! (I don't really get the whole Girl Scout Cookie thing - other than Wednesday Addams saying "are they made with real Girl Scouts" but I used to know someone who every year made thousands of these things together with her daughter every year. I think they mostly buy them ready made these days to sell on but I might be wrong). Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 13, 2024 15:47
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OwlFancier posted:I think the assertion is that the attacks on shipping with the aim of putting pressure on other countries to stop supporting the israeli genocide of palestinians, is a justifiable action, and that doesn't necessitate supporting any other part of their political platform. Succinctly put. I'd love it if there were a perfect, (morally) whiter than white resistance group defying Israel and the West but, sadly, it doesn't exist, so I'll go with what we have.
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Jan 13, 2024 15:53
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Jakabite posted:Yes, they de facto control Yemen. If a group is administering all civil, legal and military functions in an area of land it’s usually called a government, unless the west needs it to be rebels. Our government makes tough decisions to blockade ports during times of crisis. Their rebels just shoot at ships because they're bored and mad they have the wrong god or something. (We should probably also distinguish between the Houthi people, and the political Islamist group Ansar Allah, but our press absolutely will not ever.)
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Jan 13, 2024 15:56
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Darth Walrus posted:lol at Reeves actively promising to make poo poo worse if elected: 
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Jan 13, 2024 16:06
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Some day we'll look back on our use of the word terrorist with the same horror that we look back on our use of the words barbarian and savage, but not until we've found a replacement.
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Jan 13, 2024 16:07
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Guavanaut posted:Same with "no-fly zone" and "sanctions list" and all the other formal names for poo poo that kills people that don't get extended to others. (And ones that got so out of hand that they lost all euphemistic cover, like "ethnic cleansing") Well, the Houthi clan, more specifically. They're named after their founder, and his direct family and fellow clanspeople make up a significant part of the leadership despite it moving towards being an inclusive pan-nationalist Yemeni movement. Kind of like the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, plus bonus Arab tribal politics.
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Jan 13, 2024 16:08
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Guavanaut posted:Same with "no-fly zone" and "sanctions list" and all the other formal names for poo poo that kills people that don't get extended to others. likewise, the US killing hundreds of Yemeni civilians across two decades of airstrikes - well, those are just the tough choices you have to make to eliminate those barbarous Al-Qaeda terrorists. These barbarous Yemenis, on the other hand, are crossing a line by endangering innocent civilians, etc,
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Jan 13, 2024 16:21
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Yeah but they don't refer to themselves as the Houthis. They're Ansar Allah. From reading about it today the movement was only really called that by foreign media and political opponents. It feels a bit like calling Ukraine "The Ukraine" I doubt it matters much in the grand scheme of things, but we probably shouldn't.
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Jan 13, 2024 16:30
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Can't wait till next year when we've got the international dream team of starmer and trump
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Jan 13, 2024 16:36
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:(I don't really get the whole Girl Scout Cookie thing - other than Wednesday Addams saying "are they made with real Girl Scouts" but I used to know someone who every year made thousands of these things together with her daughter every year. I think they mostly buy them ready made these days to sell on but I might be wrong). I tried some last time I was in the states and they are fierce tasty to be fair.
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Jan 13, 2024 16:41
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DreddyMatt posted:Can't wait till next year when we've got the international dream team of starmer and trump It'll be funny seeing him get driven in circles by trump in a golf cart tho. At least something to look forwards to while everything else goes to complete poo poo. Trying to find decent research and history write ups and sources for the shitshow in the middle east. This is from 2017 on the history of Yemen. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/who-are-the-houthis-and-why-are-we-at-war-with-them/ Does anyone know if Brookings are even remotely impartial? (For a US think tank) It's exhausting having to research every drat outlet.
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Jan 13, 2024 16:42
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Mebh posted:It feels a bit like calling Ukraine "The Ukraine" I doubt it matters much in the grand scheme of things, but we probably shouldn't. This decision about being a terrible person if you say 'the' is a relatively recent one, and not universal.
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Jan 13, 2024 16:53
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Yeah synecdoche happens all the time in both directions, often completely innocently, and I don't think it alone makes anyone a terrible person (unless it's well known slurs or something), but war has a habit of solidifying those lines and you can usually see which one the various groups circle their wagons around pretty quickly. Within Anglosphere media, the thing with the The and whether it's Kiev/Kyiv are all products of the war that you could see emerging in real time. I'd bet money that most UK papers would have been using all the cold war names until then. They definitely were in 2014.
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Jan 13, 2024 17:17
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Scientastic posted:I find the privatisation of the post office to be one of the more bizarre efforts to make everything into a capitalist hellscape. In the age of emails, the ability to send physical letters is practically the definition of a public service that cannot be profit making, along with basic utilities and healthca-oh poo poo, there I go again, I’m a communist now chestnut santabag posted:Unlike Royal Mail, which is publically traded, the Post Office is a private company wholly owned by the British state with 99% of the outlets independently run. I...what? They're not the same thing?  What's wrong with this crazy country?!
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Jan 13, 2024 17:23
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Yvonmukluk posted:What's wrong with this crazy country?! A lot. But mostly it's the people running it.
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Jan 13, 2024 18:02
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The problem with the UK is that it expects nothing of itself and yet somehow manages to fall short.
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Jan 13, 2024 18:13
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Some good arguments being made at the Palestine March in Dublin today: 
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Jan 13, 2024 18:18
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Hey we hate us too
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Jan 13, 2024 18:21
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Down with these sort of Brits
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Jan 13, 2024 18:28
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Jakabite posted:One day you’ll have a not-poo poo opinion but apparently it isn’t today. if Israel was shooting at civilian ships you’d be up in arms about it with the rest of us, why is it OK just because it’s done by someone who you apparently approve of?
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Jan 13, 2024 18:56
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Israel doesn't have a justifiable reason to shoot at civilian ships. It isn't who is doing it is is the reason why it is being done.
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Jan 13, 2024 18:58
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Julio Cruz posted:if Israel was shooting at civilian ships you’d be up in arms about it with the rest of us, why is it OK just because it’s done by someone who you apparently approve of? Maybe they're more concerned about the thousands of dead children than the possibility of damage to a shipping container of HDTVs?
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Jan 13, 2024 18:58
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Failed Imagineer posted:Maybe they're more concerned about the thousands of dead children than the possibility of damage to a shipping container of HDTVs? please explain how potentially killing people who have nothing to do with either Israel or Gaza is going to make the situation there better in any way
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Jan 13, 2024 19:01
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Mebh posted:It'll be funny seeing him get driven in circles by trump in a golf cart tho. At least something to look forwards to while everything else goes to complete poo poo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookings_Institution#:~:text=In%201977%2C%20Time%20magazine%20called,term%20%22center%2Dleft%22. Some say left, some say right, some say centrist.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:02
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Julio Cruz posted:please explain how potentially killing people who have nothing to do with either Israel or Gaza is going to make the situation there better in any way By putting economic pressure on Israel. That seems so straightforward it shouldn't need explaining
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Jan 13, 2024 19:02
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Julio Cruz posted:if Israel was shooting at civilian ships you’d be up in arms about it with the rest of us, why is it OK just because it’s done by someone who you apparently approve of? 
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Jan 13, 2024 19:03
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Julio Cruz posted:if Israel was shooting at civilian ships you’d be up in arms about it with the rest of us, why is it OK just because it’s done by someone who you apparently approve of? There’s a thing called ‘reasons’ that people do things for. Yemen is shooting at civilian ships for the ‘reason’ that its a way to put pressure on the western hegemony to take action to cease the genocide being enacted by the Israeli state. I hope this helps. If you’d like me to explain it in easier to understand language please let me know, I know you struggle with extremely basic reasoning.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:03
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Because the intent appears to be to shut down shipping to Israeli ports which hurts the country economically. And also generally disrupting the economies of a lot of countries including the ones supporting Israel. Killing people is incidental to that and so far, does not appear to have actually happened.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:04
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Guavanaut posted:Israel has been operating a full military blockade for decades, which includes the "shooting at civilian ships" part of blockading. Yeah they've literally sent commandos to kill people on humanitarian aid ships. But you're posting at someone who came into existence on October 7th, just like the rest of the universe did.
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Jan 13, 2024 19:05
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Failed Imagineer posted:By putting economic pressure on Israel. That seems so straightforward it shouldn't need explaining Israel is going to keep going until and unless the US tells them to stop, no sort of shipping blockade is going to make the slightest bit of difference
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Jan 13, 2024 19:05
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