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Biplane posted:I'm like 99% sure it isn't. Sea-tan
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Jan 19, 2024 21:51
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Improbable Lobster posted:Sea-tan I’ll leave when I’m good and ready
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Jan 19, 2024 21:52
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NihilCredo posted:I mean, the Iron Hands might as well have been purged already given how rarely they appear in the lore, so might as well do something wild with them. The Iron Hands books all own, they are my angry cyber baby boys
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Jan 19, 2024 21:52
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lines posted:The Iron Hands suffer from the issue that I can't remember the difference between them and the Iron Warriors apart from what side they took in the Heresy. Iron Warriors are about digging, building and tearing down fortresses with machines. Iron Hands are about rebuilding themselves with machines. Iron Warriors are mad that they had to do all the bullshit jobs. Iron Hands are mad that their dad died.
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Jan 19, 2024 21:54
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Improbable Lobster posted:Iron Warriors are about digging, building and tearing down fortresses with machines. Iron Hands are about rebuilding themselves with machines. Iron Warriors are mad that they had to do all the bullshit jobs. Iron Hands are mad that their dad died. I feel like these are the wrong way round. Iron Hands seems much better for pissed off mole people who have to do scutwork.
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Jan 19, 2024 21:55
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If games workshop could turn back time, I'm sure they'd replace the iron hands with black templars
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Jan 19, 2024 22:14
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Perturabo sides with Horus because he feels like the Emperor sent his Legion unfairly into the shittiest situations and he figures the Warmaster might give him a better deal. Horus then unfairly sends his Legion into the shittiest situations (most notably, lots of them being left to die in a delaying action against the Ultramarines, as described in Slaves to Darkness)  Then, during the Siege, Horus interrupts his perfectly orchestrated Legion-versus-Legion war against Dorn by loosing massive numbers of daemons onto the battleground, causing Perturabo to nerd rage, take his toys and go home. He spends the following ten thousand years being a NEET in a fortified basement-planet in the Eye of Terror. Perturabo could have been one of the more sympathetic Chaos primarchs, however his novella was written by Guy Haley and it paints him as being a total rear end in a top hat from the moment he first encountered other people, so the canon view of him is quite unflattering.
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Jan 19, 2024 22:21
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bunnyofdoom posted:Ah gently caress me, I just thought of a dumb as poo poo, but also hilarious way for the next loyalist primarch return A Dreadnought without anybody in it just wakes up one day and starts ordering dudes around.
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Jan 19, 2024 22:33
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It hasn’t been actually 10k years in the warp
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Jan 19, 2024 22:33
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Graham Mcneil certainly sets up Perturabo as a sympathetic character in Angel Exterminatus (currently reading), sorry to hear that Haley undercuts that I actually like Haley quite a bit but its clear that his hit rate is quite a bit lower than the higher tier authors like Abnett or ADB
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Jan 19, 2024 22:34
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to me alot of the traitor primarchs are sympathtic to some point because of circumstances or events, but they are always deeply hosed up in ways that they can control to a degree. alot of them could have made better choices but didnt because they are all greek tragic characters who are flawed and kinda lovely people. perty is sympathetic but he could have just said "i want to do these missions in a different way" and poo poo would have went better. dude had a weird incel martyr complex. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jan 19, 2024 |
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Jan 19, 2024 22:41
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Perturabo being sympathetic and the completely undermining himself because of how bitter and jealous he becomes is what makes him compelling. It's not as much a case of him being unfairly treated. So much of his downfall is his own damned fault and he's too stubborn to ever admit when he's wrong or when he needs help. He's by far my favourite of the traitor primarchs because he's a self-sabotaging rear end in a top hat who might have had a point about the way he was exploited if he had even the slightest hint of self awareness. Perty saying "gently caress you, I quit" and abandoning the Siege is arguably his defining moment. It's the last straw where he cuts ties with everyone and refuses to be a tool for anyone but himself. And even then, he still manages to screw himself over with the next ten thousand years of seething resentment.
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Jan 19, 2024 22:47
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AnEdgelord posted:Graham Mcneil certainly sets up Perturabo as a sympathetic character in Angel Exterminatus (currently reading), sorry to hear that Haley undercuts that I haven't read Angel Exterminatus but I'll add it to my list. I think Haley's okay as a writer and I don't think the Perturabo novella is badly written, but it definitely does not portray him as a sympathetic character.
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Jan 19, 2024 22:49
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Kylaer posted:Perturabo sides with Horus because he feels like the Emperor sent his Legion unfairly into the shittiest situations and he figures the Warmaster might give him a better deal. Unleashing daemons is part of it but also Horus takes away Perturabo’s overall responsibility for the siege and gives it to Mortarian after Perturabo falls for the Saturnine ruse and wastes the lives of three entire companies of Sons of Horus, including most or all of the Justaerin and Catalan sections, plus 3/4 of the Mournival, plus gets the Emperor’s Children so badly mauled that they quite the Siege in a fit of pique. Dapper_Swindler posted:to me alot of the traitor primarchs are sympathtic to some point because of circumstances or events, but they are always deeply hosed up in ways that they can control to a degree. alot of them could have made better choices but didnt because they are all greek tragic characters who are flawed and kinda lovely people. perty is sympathetic but he could have just said "i want to do these missions in a different way" and poo poo would have went better. dude had a weird incel martyr complex. I think it makes sense to compare traitor primarchs to loyalists in similar circumstances. Jaghatai Khan landed among low-tech people who were hunted and killed for sport by their high-tech masters. He didn’t fall to Chaos. Dorn was also forced into non-glorious siege work (even worse, his entire legion was rotated out of the crusade and deprived of any further glory). He didn’t fall to Chaos. the Lion was a feral child in a chaos-monster/infested forest. He didn’t fall to Chaos.
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Jan 19, 2024 22:50
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Inspector_666 posted:A Dreadnought without anybody in it just wakes up one day and starts ordering dudes around. The Iron Hands already have that according to the short story "iron soul".
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Jan 19, 2024 22:51
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CottonWolf posted:One is the cold brutal logic of the industrialist machine, the other is the cold brutal logic of the industrialist machine. Only one has sick hazard stripes.
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Jan 19, 2024 22:53
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:plus gets the Emperor’s Children so badly mauled that they quite the Siege in a fit of pique. I like the idea of Horus blaming Perturabo for this even though it's Fulgrim's hubris and pride. Seems fitting for all involved.
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Jan 19, 2024 22:57
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Z the IVth posted:Only one has sick hazard stripes. Right but which one.
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Jan 19, 2024 23:02
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Iron Warriors are sick as hell, Iron Hands suck.
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Jan 20, 2024 00:31
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Bohemian Nights posted:If games workshop could turn back time, I'm sure they'd replace the iron hands with black templars Gravitas Shortfall posted:Iron Warriors are sick as hell, Iron Hands suck. i won't forget this insult Improbable Lobster fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 01:00
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Inspector_666 posted:A Dreadnought without anybody in it just wakes up one day and starts ordering dudes around. The Phil Kelly short story Iron Soul is about a space wolf finding out that an iron hands dreadnought is empty but functional. There's also the Helfather terminators in the David Guymer iron hands novels. They're inplied to be related to the Keys of Hel from the HH. In the first book we find out that they're empty suits of armour. In the second book, we see a severely wounded marine get placed inside a suit of terminator armour and transformed into a Helfather. Improbable Lobster fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 01:14
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The Iron Hands have two main things: 1. being grim and merciless 2. going places Man Was Not Meant To Go with transhumanism The reason they're the most ignored marines (or maybe second most ignored after the raven guard) is that there are multiple other factions that do each of those things! Maybe GW+BL should have given the "custodians of all the most fuckoff terrifying dark age tech the emperor could find" role to them instead of to the Dark Angels, might generate some more hooks for em
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Jan 20, 2024 01:53
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Raven Guard being the most ignored faction makes sense though. You might even say it's their thing to be invisible 
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Jan 20, 2024 02:45
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PupsOfWar posted:The Iron Hands have two main things: their actual two main things are to be jobbers for the Emperor's Children during the Heresy and then to be the Adeptus Mechanicus's personal Marine chapter in modern 40k
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Jan 20, 2024 02:48
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D-Pad posted:As far as we know he does not. Lion is in Nihilus and none of the expeditions Guilliman has sent over have returned yet. Guilliman himself is preparing to cross over as stated in the last few Dawn of Fire books so I imagine he will at some point in the near future and then they will meet. I think it has been pretty obvious that BL wanted to finish the Siege books before doing any big lore stuff in the 40k era. I expect they'll have things start moving soon because they have laid a lot of groundwork for relatively big lore stuff that is coming down the pipe. I know that's the whole schtick with the War of Beasts (not to be confused with the War Of the Beast) is to keep the pathway between the two sides open. But the Dark Angels as a whole showed up to fight Vashtor and Abbadon over the rebuilt Caliban. On the maps that have been posted, the Rock and the Dark Angels are listed on the Sanctus side of things. Also I imagine word would travel quickly to The Reagent given that TWO of his brothers popped up and fought each other during the Arks of Omen campaign. For the more recent discussions: I think Raven Guard and Fists don't get much attention because they don't have as character cut out for an author to really dig in (other than David Guymer). Raven Guard are basically "What if Night Lords didn't commit acts of Terrorism?" as their doctrine. There are a few good story hooks you could have with them being the "working man's" Marines, but then they'd fall into similar territory as the Wolves in that they don't get along with the other segments of the Terran leadership. Salamander's fall into the same catagory in that they'd probably be a really good story hook with them retaining a lot of their humanity. I almost imagine that it would be similar to the "Honored Ancestors" of wuxia books popping back up when something crazy happened.
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Jan 20, 2024 03:25
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On deep, revoked cuts, reminder that prior to the HH books, there was a heavy implication that Ferrus Manus was in fact, C'tan corrupted himself, and might just simply be one, pretending to be a Primarch. This all got walked back when the HH becamse more than an idea, because it made the whole lore very, very messy.
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Jan 20, 2024 03:25
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Shockeh posted:On deep, revoked cuts, reminder that prior to the HH books, there was a heavy implication that Ferrus Manus was in fact, C'tan corrupted himself, and might just simply be one, pretending to be a Primarch. What's the source for this? I've never heard this before.
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Jan 20, 2024 03:34
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Shroud posted:What's the source for this? I've never heard this before. Couple of places, all implied, never direct: * OG Codex Necrons described multiple C'tan beyond Nightbringer & Deceiver, but the one that was most often mentioned was 'The Dragon' or 'The Void Dragon'. * Index Astartes Iron Hands described: - Ferrus Manus as a child receiving his literal iron hands by choking to death or drowning (I can't remember) a 'Silver Drake' on Medusa whose silvery sheen was then covering his arms (And was described using a lot of the same words as Necrodermis in the OG Necron C'tan descriptions) - Then the Iron Hands themselves start replacing themselves entirely to be more robotic, 'rejecting the flesh' and generally turning themselves into inorganic killing machines (Sound familiar?) * Then before we had even a hint of the Adeptus Mechanicus as an army: - The Mechanicus in the lore were hinted at to have stolen Ferrus Manus' body after Istvaan, presumably hiding it away on Mars - In BFG the Necrons were introduced, and their Stealth Light Frigate (The Shroud) in a short story was landing on Mars - There's a short story of Abaddon & Zarathustra basically having a good giggle at all of the above, when they identify this. This ALL got ditched when both the Necrons inverted their background from slaves to the C'tan to 'Actually, we hosed THEM up', and the idea of the HH series began to germinate. It's absolutely revoked now, at the same time they also ditched the Necrons 'Pariah' storyline. Shockeh fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 03:51
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Shockeh posted:Couple of places, all implied, never direct: Just about all of that is still canon. In Angel Exterminautus we briefly see the Great Wyrm Asirnoth being freed when Ferrus Manus's Primarch Pod landed on the highest peak on Medusa. Freeing the Wyrm turned his eyes silver and when he later drowned Asirnoth in lava, its metal skin melted and reformed on his hands. The most recent Iron Hands codex supplement heavily implies that there are Neceon structures on Medusa outright states that imperial scholars theorize that Asirnoth was some sort of Necrodermis construct. The ultimate fate of Ferrus's body is still unknown (the location of his skull, his armour and a knife one guy made out of one of his finger bones notwithstanding) and the Iron Hands canonically disgree on if he's alive somehow somewhere on Medusa or Mars, or if he'll return from the dead, or if he's just plain dead as hell. AFAIK, the short story about The Shroud attempting to land on Mars has never been contradicted. I consume just about everything featuring the Iron Hands, probably due to brain problems. E: here's part of the last codex supplement 
Improbable Lobster fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Jan 20, 2024 |
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Jan 20, 2024 04:39
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I think the whole "secret c'tan" thing has largely been transferred to the Machine God itself (see: Mechanicum)
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Jan 20, 2024 05:39
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Johnny Space is actually a C'tan shard,
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Jan 20, 2024 05:41
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Calax posted:I know that's the whole schtick with the War of Beasts (not to be confused with the War Of the Beast) is to keep the pathway between the two sides open. But the Dark Angels as a whole showed up to fight Vashtor and Abbadon over the rebuilt Caliban. On the maps that have been posted, the Rock and the Dark Angels are listed on the Sanctus side of things. Well the Lion wasn't with the Dark Angels when he came back and he has some kind of ability where he can portal himself around the galaxy. If I remember correctly after the Vashtor fight he barely acknowledged the DA and went off again with his reformed Fallen buddies. I am sure Guilliman knows about the Lion before too long after he comes back but we just haven't seen any mention of it in the lore yet. I think it will be a major plot point whether or not they ally or fight so I am sure GW is saving it until after the siege is finished. They are certainly building up to something bigger than just what we've seen of the Indomitus crusade so far.
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Jan 20, 2024 06:10
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AnEdgelord posted:I think the whole "secret c'tan" thing has largely been transferred to the Machine God itself (see: Mechanicum) Yeah, I don’t think it was ever hinted that Ferrus was a c’tan, only that he fought one and got some necrodermis on himself. He’s Ferrus, he just had weird necron hands.
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Jan 20, 2024 12:51
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Calax posted:I know that's the whole schtick with the War of Beasts (not to be confused with the War Of the Beast) is to keep the pathway between the two sides open. But the Dark Angels as a whole showed up to fight Vashtor and Abbadon over the rebuilt Caliban. On the maps that have been posted, the Rock and the Dark Angels are listed on the Sanctus side of things. Two things: The Rock is a mobile entity and is warp-travel capable. The Dark Angels move it around fairly regularly. The rebuilt Caliban was explicitly located in Imperium Nihilus.
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Jan 20, 2024 14:24
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w395Z5Uk1f8
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Jan 20, 2024 15:42
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WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT THE SCALPERS DAN
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Jan 20, 2024 15:42
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Iron Warriors are sick as hell. That’s right
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Jan 20, 2024 16:30
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Yeah, I don’t think it was ever hinted that Ferrus was a c’tan, only that he fought one and got some necrodermis on himself. He’s Ferrus, he just had weird necron hands. Yeah I think it was always implied that the Void Dragon was connected to Mars, not Ferrus
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Jan 20, 2024 18:22
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Blue Raider posted:That’s right 
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Jan 20, 2024 18:36
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Just grabbed End and the Death Vol 3 at the store. Didn't think it would be out yet but it was there so.
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Jan 20, 2024 19:36
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