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BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost
Mother was a moderately talented artist who ended up with a prolific but monetarily worthless collection of huge tasteful nude paintings that none of her millennial kids living in one bedroom apartments have room to hang.

I like blarzgh's boat vote, except it's an old leaky small boat that at least one kid was conceived in, and again none of the kids even have driveways, much less garages or toy sheds to store it in.

14 sheep, each with names and personalities.

An entire wall-sized bookshelf of Louis L'Amour paperbacks with Grandpa's hand-written notes, including love notes to Grandma.

Pet ashes going back at least seven generations of cat. People ashes for the entire direct lineage back to the civil war.

Or they're all hoarders and all that stuff is valuable and we gotta save it. We can't just throw away these perfectly good lamps!

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Atticus_1354
Dec 10, 2006

barkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbarkbark

My boss rented a home to an (ex)employee. That employee apparently had schizophrenia and after a very long eviction process during covid finally got him out. The guy abandoned a bunch of property, including a very large speedboat that looks like it came off the set of Miami Vice and apparently beeds some work. We live in Central Texas at least 4 hours from the coast. It now lives on a trailer at another coworkers ranch because no one can figure out what to do with it.

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

BigHead posted:



14 sheep, each with names and personalities.



I'm at risk for this actually. More than 14.

EricBauman
Nov 30, 2005

DOLF IS RECHTVAARDIG
I have a friend who's a photographer. She's Dutch/French, lives in Spain and did some work for a very high profile person in the Middle East (an endless money top of the pyramid type person). Let's call the client the princess, because that's what she is.

The princess wanted some photography work done for a product that she was selling for her personal charity. The main use of the photos would be on Instagram and all of this was supposed to be an ongoing project with a per month fee.
My friend prepared some possible packages for her:
- package 1 with just some social media advice for X amount per month, and then she'd have to buy individual photos at a rate of Y per photo
- package 2 with the social media advice and 10 photos per month for Z amount.
My friend advised the princess to go for the package with the photos included, because it was a better price for her. When the princess said she wanted to go for package 1, my friend explicitly warned her that no photos were included in the package. The princess explicitly confirmed that she was aware of this and it was ok.

You can probably already tell where this is going.

My friend and her husband took 40 photos. This is fairly normal in product photography circles: You take 40 photos out of which the client chooses 10 or 12 that they want to use and they pay only for those. To make things easier for the princess (who was constantly complaining that she was so busy), they chose to allow them to download however many photos they wanted, and they'd send her an invoice afterward.

The princess downloaded the entire collection of 40 photos. That made my friend very happy, because it meant she'd made about 6k.
And they immediately started posting these photos to Instagram. Not in a good way. Just ten random photos in one post with barely any caption.
So that made me and my friend suspect that the princess wasn't really paying attention. I advised her to send the princess a message, basically saying "Hey, I see you downloaded the entire collection. That's fine if it's what you wanted to do. If it wasn't, just let me know which of the photos you want to buy. I'll create an invoice for the correct amount once I hear back from you."
The princess responded (angrily) that of course she didn't know any of this and she thought the 40 photos were included in the rate for package 1.

It took a lot of messaging before the princess said "fine, gently caress it, I'll pay your $1400 invoice for these ten photos and then we're done." She paid quickly, my friend told her to not use the other photos that she downloaded.

We hoped that'd be the end of the story.

Now today, we see that the princess has used two more of the photos (not part of the ten she bought) as stories on Instagram.

We're reporting them as IP infringement to Instagram and I've written up a basic cease and desist message. I'm not a lawyer. I work in financial compliance and have taken some courses in public international law a million years ago when I was in the diplomatic academy. I can make things sound lawyerly enough. I also know that cease and desist message don't have to be super formal. And since this is an international dispute between Spain and a Gulf state, I wouldn't be making reference to any country's laws anyway.

Here's my understanding of where we stand:
- The princess is in the wrong, very clearly. We have dozens of whatsapp messages and emails proving that she agreed that package 1 didn't include photos, and then later agreeing to pay the invoice and ending her use of any other photos.
- Since a per photo rate was agreed (and paid for previous photos after the first dispute), this makes it very easy for us to tell her what she needs to pay.
- If this ever goes to court it'll be in Spain, as we can't win a court case in a country her dad runs.

So far, this all sounds like it's pretty open and shut (depending if we want to put in the effort, but my friend's husband's family has a family lawyer that they can involve if things really get serious and the specifics of Spanish law start to matter).

tldr here's the legal question:
What use is a cease and desist for an Instagram story? The photo will be gone by the time a reasonable deadline passes.

I get that it still serves as a warning for future violations, but won't the princess be able to argue that the breach no longer exists because the story has expired? That would mean she wouldn't have to pay for it. I guess we'll send it and wait and see if/how she responds and what Instagram does with a normal copyright report

EricBauman fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Mar 5, 2024

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
No idea about anything related to your specific question, However: there are a number of different kinds of lawsuits that you can't file until you make a demand of some kind on the other side.

Sometimes you have to say, "Hey, quit." Or "You need to do your thing" before a lawsuit can be commenced, to give parties a chance to comply before getting sued or establish whether you are waiving any complaint you might have.

Again, no idea if that's what's going on here, but we often have to send demand letters that are roundly ignored and sometimes pointless, but we have to send them anyways.

EricBauman
Nov 30, 2005

DOLF IS RECHTVAARDIG
Yeah, we're definitely going to send the cease and desist demand, with an invoice attached as an alternative.

I think I've landed on an approach with regard to the ephemeral nature of Instagram stories:
Almost 24h after the story was first posted, we'll check if it's still online. If Instagram has removed it by then, they'll email my friend. If the princess has removed it (with or without responding to our email), that's also fine.
If she hasn't removed it or if she lies about having removed it when it's still online at ~23.45 after posting, we'll take screenshots, the next email will be more forceful and we'll look for a lawyer who wants to take an easy case against a super rich opponent on contingency

Remulak
Jun 8, 2001
I can't count to four.
Yams Fan
Your friend should NOT go to the embassy.

Azuth0667
Sep 20, 2011

By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.
Beware of bonesaws.

Tezer
Jul 9, 2001

All this over $6,000 - $1,400 = $4,600?

Exactly how much do money do you expect to win that will attract a lawyer willing to work "on contingency"

EricBauman
Nov 30, 2005

DOLF IS RECHTVAARDIG

Tezer posted:

All this over $6,000 - $1,400 = $4,600?

Exactly how much do money do you expect to win that will attract a lawyer willing to work "on contingency"

I figured they'd get their fees paid by the losing party, plus a bit of the damages. And I guess it's an easy win against someone high profile, so that's always nice

If it ever comes to this point, I'll have to look into how all of this works in Spain anyway

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

EricBauman posted:

I have a friend who's a photographer. She's Dutch/French, lives in Spain and did some work for a very high profile person in the Middle East (an endless money top of the pyramid type person). Let's call the client the princess, because that's what she is.

The princess wanted some photography work done for a product that she was selling for her personal charity. The main use of the photos would be on Instagram and all of this was supposed to be an ongoing project with a per month fee.
My friend prepared some possible packages for her:
- package 1 with just some social media advice for X amount per month, and then she'd have to buy individual photos at a rate of Y per photo
- package 2 with the social media advice and 10 photos per month for Z amount.
My friend advised the princess to go for the package with the photos included, because it was a better price for her. When the princess said she wanted to go for package 1, my friend explicitly warned her that no photos were included in the package. The princess explicitly confirmed that she was aware of this and it was ok.

You can probably already tell where this is going.

My friend and her husband took 40 photos. This is fairly normal in product photography circles: You take 40 photos out of which the client chooses 10 or 12 that they want to use and they pay only for those. To make things easier for the princess (who was constantly complaining that she was so busy), they chose to allow them to download however many photos they wanted, and they'd send her an invoice afterward.

The princess downloaded the entire collection of 40 photos. That made my friend very happy, because it meant she'd made about 6k.
And they immediately started posting these photos to Instagram. Not in a good way. Just ten random photos in one post with barely any caption.
So that made me and my friend suspect that the princess wasn't really paying attention. I advised her to send the princess a message, basically saying "Hey, I see you downloaded the entire collection. That's fine if it's what you wanted to do. If it wasn't, just let me know which of the photos you want to buy. I'll create an invoice for the correct amount once I hear back from you."
The princess responded (angrily) that of course she didn't know any of this and she thought the 40 photos were included in the rate for package 1.

It took a lot of messaging before the princess said "fine, gently caress it, I'll pay your $1400 invoice for these ten photos and then we're done." She paid quickly, my friend told her to not use the other photos that she downloaded.

We hoped that'd be the end of the story.

Now today, we see that the princess has used two more of the photos (not part of the ten she bought) as stories on Instagram.

We're reporting them as IP infringement to Instagram and I've written up a basic cease and desist message. I'm not a lawyer. I work in financial compliance and have taken some courses in public international law a million years ago when I was in the diplomatic academy. I can make things sound lawyerly enough. I also know that cease and desist message don't have to be super formal. And since this is an international dispute between Spain and a Gulf state, I wouldn't be making reference to any country's laws anyway.

Here's my understanding of where we stand:
- The princess is in the wrong, very clearly. We have dozens of whatsapp messages and emails proving that she agreed that package 1 didn't include photos, and then later agreeing to pay the invoice and ending her use of any other photos.
- Since a per photo rate was agreed (and paid for previous photos after the first dispute), this makes it very easy for us to tell her what she needs to pay.
- If this ever goes to court it'll be in Spain, as we can't win a court case in a country her dad runs.

So far, this all sounds like it's pretty open and shut (depending if we want to put in the effort, but my friend's husband's family has a family lawyer that they can involve if things really get serious and the specifics of Spanish law start to matter).

tldr here's the legal question:
What use is a cease and desist for an Instagram story? The photo will be gone by the time a reasonable deadline passes.

I get that it still serves as a warning for future violations, but won't the princess be able to argue that the breach no longer exists because the story has expired? That would mean she wouldn't have to pay for it. I guess we'll send it and wait and see if/how she responds and what Instagram does with a normal copyright report

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

your friend should stop offering option a, and should collect payment for photos before the client has access to full size/resolution non-watermarked versions of them

EricBauman
Nov 30, 2005

DOLF IS RECHTVAARDIG

Leperflesh posted:

your friend should stop offering option a, and should collect payment for photos before the client has access to full size/resolution non-watermarked versions of them

Yes, I've been telling her this since before this all went down. She doesn't have the best business sense and I try to help her with those kinds of things as best I can, but she's way too trusting

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

EricBauman posted:

Yes, I've been telling her this since before this all went down. She doesn't have the best business sense and I try to help her with those kinds of things as best I can, but she's way too trusting

Then this is the cost of doing business her way and she needs to learn what the consequences can be.

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost
Yeah this seems like a very cheap lesson in running a small business. One of the lessons she should learn is that lawyers should review contracts before they're signed, not chase after verbal agreement pocket change cases after they are signed. Can she mark it as a loss for tax purposes and move on with her life?

This lesson will probably save her way more money in the future if that's any consolation.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.
Where can I go to get paid $140 for a product any photo?

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
Even if you win the lawsuit, how in the world do you expect to collect?

Remulak posted:

Your friend should NOT go to the embassy.

Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005




joat mon posted:

Where can I go to get paid $140 for a product any photo?

That depends on how you feel about blackmail.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
also a good rule to know for suing people, if they have oil billionaire family money they can drag a case out for years and spend $500k just to prove they can do whatever they want

Born Rich is a film by the Johnson & Johnson fortune heir and he was sued by someone who agreed to be in it, a fellow mega rich heir. He included the scene in the film where his lawyer talked to him about it and basically said "this is a nonsense lawsuit but he can finance it running for 2-3 years, you can afford to fight it, so the question is how much is your time worth to deal with this?"

pentyne fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Mar 5, 2024

Whitlam
Aug 2, 2014

Some goons overreact. Go figure.
So when this matter is resolved, does everyone who replied bill OP jointly or individually? Since they're passionate about professionals getting paid for their work and all.

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp
Send me some tasteful nudes OP, I do a lot of work pro boner

Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005




My coworker told me a funny story about when he was in welding class during high school a few decades ago during the time of ripped and frayed jeans. The student managed to catch his jeans on fire around the crotch region. When he came out of the booth with his crotch engulfed in flames, the teacher did the the natural thing and started smacking at the flames to put the fire out. In a situation like that in current times, would the student have a case that the teacher assaulted him and also sexually assaulted him by smacking him about the legs and dick, or would it be more like the student gives his side of the case and the teacher replies with, "Your Honor, he was on fire."

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

BigHead posted:

Can she mark it as a loss for tax purposes and move on with her life?

If that works, I'll use 300,000 of her photos so she never has to pay taxes ever again

Javid
Oct 21, 2004

:jpmf:

Skunkduster posted:

My coworker told me a funny story about when he was in welding class during high school a few decades ago during the time of ripped and frayed jeans. The student managed to catch his jeans on fire around the crotch region. When he came out of the booth with his crotch engulfed in flames, the teacher did the the natural thing and started smacking at the flames to put the fire out. In a situation like that in current times, would the student have a case that the teacher assaulted him and also sexually assaulted him by smacking him about the legs and dick, or would it be more like the student gives his side of the case and the teacher replies with, "Your Honor, he was on fire."

defense of necessity, duty to act in loco parentis, and hope there were lots of witnesses who saw the fire/this isn't that shop teacher's 17th sketchy false accusation?

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Nowadays when you set your groin on fire in public no one tries to smack it out they just get out their phone and start filming.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Ask me how I know.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
Bird with burned dick

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Justice delayed is justice denied. Has anyone said something like that before or am I the first?

B33rChiller
Aug 18, 2011




Atticus_1354 posted:

My boss rented a home to an (ex)employee. That employee apparently had schizophrenia and after a very long eviction process during covid finally got him out. The guy abandoned a bunch of property, including a very large speedboat that looks like it came off the set of Miami Vice and apparently beeds some work. We live in Central Texas at least 4 hours from the coast. It now lives on a trailer at another coworkers ranch because no one can figure out what to do with it.
There are likely boat brokers on the coast who will get rid of it for you. Might have some process to get whatever title or paperwork for registration or licensing or whatever officially shows ownership of abandoned property sorted first.

ETA: Wow, some things are truly timeless. Royalty giving artists the shaft. Same as ever, except these days, it's over Instagram digital photos, and I magically get to read an inside perspective, written in English!

B33rChiller fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Mar 8, 2024

Jean-Paul Shartre
Jan 16, 2015

this sentence no verb


Volmarias posted:

Bird with burned dick

Burned with big dick was right there

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Atticus_1354 posted:

My boss rented a home to an (ex)employee. That employee apparently had schizophrenia and after a very long eviction process during covid finally got him out. The guy abandoned a bunch of property, including a very large speedboat that looks like it came off the set of Miami Vice and apparently beeds some work. We live in Central Texas at least 4 hours from the coast. It now lives on a trailer at another coworkers ranch because no one can figure out what to do with it.

https://texas.public.law/statutes/tex._parks_and_wild._code_section_31.0466

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
From the Newspaper Spiderman thread

MorningMoon posted:



Peter, love you taking action like this, but why'd you even tip the car then

Let's say that the police arrive to the lobby with Yates (a prominent would-be politician) and Blackie (a known criminal) tied up together, and Spiderman hands them a folder labeled My Crimes before loving off into the night. The folder contains evidence showing that Yates had, and is continuing to have Blackie organize a crime wave so that Yates can get elected on a "Law & Order" platform. Let us assume that the police are able to do some due diligence and the evidence can be confirmed to the extent that can be verified, so it seems to be legitimate.

Could this information be used in a criminal prosecution of Yates, even though it was illegally obtained by Spider-Man?

Volmarias fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 19, 2024

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

Volmarias posted:

From the Newspaper Spiderman thread



Let's say that the police arrive to the lobby with Yates (a prominent would-be politician) and Blackie (a known criminal) tied up together, and Spiderman hands them a folder labeled My Crimes before loving off into the night. The folder contains evidence showing that Yates had, and is continuing to have Blackie organize a crime wave so that Yates can get elected on a "Law & Order" platform. Let us assume that the police are able to do some due diligence and the evidence can be confirmed to the extent that can be verified, so it seems to be legitimate.

Could this information be used in a criminal prosecution of Yates, even though it was illegally obtained by Spider-Man?

Was it illegally obtained by the police? Because it seems to me like they came into the possession of said evidence during an investigation into an unlawful detainment of two persons by some sort of masked vigilante, and did not themselves conduct any sort of unlawful search and seizure, unlawful arrest or anything. It would seem like the police could use the information as a basis for a reasonable suspicion requirement warrant and arrest, wherein they would be able to investigate and gather coroborating evidence.

Waffle!
Aug 6, 2004

I Feel Pretty!


Is it a distinction between 'the evidence was stolen property and taken without a warrant,' or 'the police arrived to discover the perpetrators and evidence of their crime was in plain sight?'

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

Waffle! posted:

Is it a distinction between 'the evidence was stolen property and taken without a warrant,' or 'the police arrived to discover the perpetrators and evidence of their crime was in plain sight?'

The line is whether Spider-man was acting as an agent of the government when he obtained the evidence. If yes, the exclusionary rule applies. If no, it would be admissible.

Pantaloon Pontiff
Jun 25, 2023

Waffle! posted:

Is it a distinction between 'the evidence was stolen property and taken without a warrant,' or 'the police arrived to discover the perpetrators and evidence of their crime was in plain sight?'

"Taken without a warrant" isn't a problem for evidence on it's own, it's only for evidence that agents of the government gather (and has exceptions). Spider man is usually not on great terms with the police, and Newspaper Spider Man gets shot at by police on the regular, so it's hard to make an argument that he was acting as an agent of the police when he grabbed the papers. This is different for Batman, since the police have a special call signal for him and the chief of police often consults with him directly.

So I'm pretty sure the evidence would be allowed, as it's not the result of any illegal conduct by the police or someone they asked/hired to investigate.

CongoJack
Nov 5, 2009

Ask Why, Asshole
Saw a semi with a big sign on the back that says “Caution stay back. We will not be liable for damage to your vehicle!” Is that all it takes to not be liable? Can I put one of those on my car and dump rocks out occasionally from the trunk free from all liability for the damage?

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

CongoJack posted:

Saw a semi with a big sign on the back that says “Caution stay back. We will not be liable for damage to your vehicle!” Is that all it takes to not be liable? Can I put one of those on my car and dump rocks out occasionally from the trunk free from all liability for the damage?

My non lawyer guess is "lol no but it helps keep litigious assholes in BMWs away"

Pantaloon Pontiff
Jun 25, 2023

Those signs don't have an actual legal effect, but they can encourage people to stay back and to not sue them.

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Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

CongoJack posted:

Saw a semi with a big sign on the back that says “Caution stay back. We will not be liable for damage to your vehicle!” Is that all it takes to not be liable? Can I put one of those on my car and dump rocks out occasionally from the trunk free from all liability for the damage?

No it’s not magic immunity, just evidence of warning people to stay back under certain circumstances.

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