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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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Governments change material trajectories all the time and often it isn’t inevitable, I don’t think the history of the USSR circa 1927 was written in stone. No one needs to jump onto great man theory to realize that leaders do have an influence. Hell, look at FDR, even if he was a liberal as any other, doesn’t mean nothing he did change any sort of trajectory.
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Apr 16, 2024 15:48
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time to add "materialist/materialism" to the list of "new words liberals have just learned and are using incorrectly"
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Apr 16, 2024 15:52
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Yes, but "As if removing enough people would eventually leave you with only ideologically disciplined true hardcore stalinists that wouldn't have done liberalization and lead to Gorbachev and perestroika. I think this is incredible wishful thinking and is a pretty anti-materalist understanding of history" Is contradictory because Gorbachev was himself an idealist. So, having someone other than Gorbachev would substantively make a difference in executive direction. You couldn't say "well Gorbachev was only responding to events using material analysis, anyone in the same position would have done the same thing". Through his account, and accounts written about him, he very much was not doing that. He took pride in not doing what a party member would be trained to do in his situation. Put another way, Erich Honecker was not responding to a profound material desire for tropical fruit and denim in the DDR, as evidence overwhelmingly shows both were available in quality, and (seasonally for fruit) quantity. It was the symbolic value of those commodities that caused a crisis, or symbolized a crisis in the DDR. Well, suppose someone who is disciplined enough to see the problem that way holds the executive? We can't say they would act the same way as Honecker, because given the actual circumstances - and of course with hindsight we can see the result - he was acting out of idealism. So, on the one hand, you're saying framing these two executives as important decision makers is anti-materialist. On the other hand, their decisions were guided by idealism, not the conditions at hand. Liberalization and perestroika were not the inevitable response to depressed oil and gas prices. They were very much an idealistic response as Gorby, being an idiot, thought the solution lay somewhere other than continuing to focus on the material conditions of the USSR. Similarly, Honecker and other Warsaw Pact leaders were pressed by a tight economy, but the decision to turn to the IMF and western finance was, again, naïveté in the extreme, that did not come from frankly assessing their relationship to the western financiers and what might happen should they gain leverage over Warsaw Pact.
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Apr 16, 2024 15:53
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I made a post in the CSPAM modern history thread, let's discuss it there. Also, please don't call me a liberal 
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Apr 16, 2024 15:54
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If it's all the same, I can follow the conversation here, is there a particular reason to start anew in another thread?
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Apr 16, 2024 15:56
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I'm sorry for calling you a liberal, that was mean.
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Apr 16, 2024 15:56
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:If it's all the same, I can follow the conversation here, is there a particular reason to start anew in another thread? i think someone in the ip thread wanted to figure out which parts of the ukranian state were nazis (some kind of out of context poroshenko quote was involved?) but the stalin conversation got in the way, i dunno if they ever figured it out or not
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Apr 16, 2024 15:57
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:If it's all the same, I can follow the conversation here, is there a particular reason to start anew in another thread? I don't want to drown out ukraine war news and discussion
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Apr 16, 2024 15:57
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The torpedos on that thing have a total mass of 20kg? What's a 2-3kg bomb gonna accomplish?
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Apr 16, 2024 15:58
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:I don't want to drown out ukraine war news and discussion This is a chat thread, post whatever you want.
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Apr 16, 2024 15:59
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Sapozhnik posted:add some hydraulic pincers and eyestalk cameras to version 3 you absolute bitch rear end cowards https://metalslug.fandom.com/wiki/Huge_Hermit
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Apr 16, 2024 16:00
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TBF the only war updates are turtle tanks, continuing trends, and the occasional post of some small field changing color after a few weeks of fighting.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:00
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Hoping the crab tank trend continues and we end up with actual giant tank battleships. Not those lovely experiments with multi turret tanks, I mean an actual battleship on treads.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:02
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We regret to inform you that Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky is spreading Russian misinformation and propaganda. _________________________________ Source: Kyiv Independent https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-14/ Zelensky: Russia fires 10 times more shells, uses 300 aircraft in Ukraine only by Kateryna Denisova and The Kyiv Independent news desk April 16, 2024 3:17 PM 2 min read Russia is firing shells at a ratio of around 10:1 to those of Ukraine and has 30 times more aircraft, President Volodymyr Zelensky said in an interview with PBS NewsHour published on April 16. Ukraine faces an ongoing ammunition shortage, with the country being in dire need of shells and missiles. Delays in U.S. assistance to Ukraine have already had a direct impact on the battlefield, contributing to the loss of the key front-line city of Avdiivka. Amid the escalating situation on the eastern front, Zelensky said that "Ukraine will lose the war" if the U.S. Congress fails to approve military aid. As Moscow intensified its attacks on Ukraine's energy infrastructure during the spring, the shortage of air defense systems in Ukrainian cities and villages is being felt more acutely. Zelensky reiterated that without U.S. help, Ukraine "would have no chance of winning" in the war. "You have to be much stronger than your enemy, that's what I am talking about. Today, (a ratio of) artillery shells is 1 to 10. Can we stand with this? No, we cannot. (Ratio of) aircraft is 1 to 30. How can we fight?" the president said. "We do not ask for any special weapons. No one asks for 500 or 300 planes. By the way, Russia uses 300 planes only on Ukraine's territory,"Zelensky added. Kyiv needs to catch up with Russia in the number of shells, reaching a ratio of 10:10 to fully protect the territory currently controlled by Ukraine, according to Zelensky. Moscow was firing shells at a ratio of around 7:1 to those of Ukraine, Deputy Defense Minister Ivan Havryliuk said in mid-March Russia is producing close to 250,000 artillery munitions monthly, or around 3 million per year, which is nearly three times as many artillery munitions as the U.S. and Europe can send to Ukraine, CNN reported in March, citing NATO intelligence estimates and unnamed sources familiar with the matter.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:05
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:I don't want to drown out ukraine war news and discussion If that's what people want to do, I suppose. However, would this not be an example of "past is prologue"? Bear with me here, The distinction between "Modern History" and "the War in Ukraine", is ideological. Yes, part of that is practicality, just like organizing shelves in the library. The other side is that, just as we decide what the categories are in a library, and what belong where, we are making ideological choices where we create these categories. The decision to have one category "history", and another category "current events", severs - even if for expediency's sake - the link between things that are obviously interrelated. Put another way, what are the things going on in the Ukraine War at the moment?: - Ukraine is badly outmatched in terms of materiel - Their western donors are unable to respond, both practically, and ideologically But even more broadly, what brought Ukraine into conflict with Russia in the first place? What brought NATO to Russia's borders? How was NATO able to shape Ukrainian politics, and to a degree society, to pursue this goal? A sequence of events that ultimately has a lot to do with Gorbachev. Why did western Ukraine produce the Political people, liberal and "otherwise", it has since 1991? Because of the economic layout of the USSR and Ukrainian SSR, as well as the way the West went about Shock Therapy. These events had a material cause, so did the advent of this "norse" racial identity in Western Ukraine, "Neo-paganism" etc etc, and contributed to the war. What is the liberal NGO class, why do they have an outsized role in Ukrainian politics? Well, western money. Why would a bunch of anglophile liberals be considered a good investment? There's a material incentive. Etc etc As Gradenko has done a great job explaining in detail, each of these events is obscured, and separated from each other as well as the war itself, yet they are very clearly interrelated to the cause and conduct of the war. I realize not every thread can be about everything, and, like library shelves, creating categories to organize information is helpful, but this isn't drowning out "Ukraine War News and Discussion", it is Ukraine war discussion, because how else are you supposed to interpret the war? DJJIB-DJDCT has issued a correction as of 16:12 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 16:09
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:I don't want to drown out ukraine war news and discussion the history of the ussr is ukriane news
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Apr 16, 2024 16:09
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euphronius posted:the history of the ussr is ukriane news euphronius once again demonstrating that brevity is the soul of wit 
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Apr 16, 2024 16:10
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Leandros posted:loving hell how much more grim can this conflict get. Is there something to be said about the complete despair inducing a lack of dopamine that gambling can compensate for? War fucks your brain up in all kinds of ways so rampant gambling makes sense.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:10
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Stalin did nothing wrong
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Apr 16, 2024 16:11
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the purge criticism are always interesting to me because the USA has goes through intense and regular purges.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:14
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:I don't think the macro historical conditions of the USSR would be majorly different with or without the purges, with or without Stalin at the helm It's a good take, though. Had Trotsky became leader, for example, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to consider that the axe would have swung around much harder than Stalin did.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:16
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Does this mean Ukraine has 10 planes?
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Apr 16, 2024 16:17
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Orange Devil posted:War fucks your brain up in all kinds of ways so rampant gambling makes sense. Soldiers have always gambled, it's one of their chief vices. Romans were casting lots (sortes) at the Crucifixion. More to the point, in the modern era, the reason there was a big push to have coffee, reading rooms, team sports, board games etc. in barracks was because soldiers spent nearly all of their time gambling. What we see in this case is the same thing that was discussed in Doomsday Econ, as the TRPF, western liberal capitalist democracies have started to deregulate vices. Moreover, just like they have used technology to squeeze profitability from other areas of life, gambling in its resurrected form must maximize profits, and deliver them to the "right" hands, compared to soldiers just playing street craps or playing cards in their tents. Apps don't just allow and promote the ancient vice of the enlisted man, they make sure the losings go to people in Kiev, and their western backers, rather than just circulating around the unit or injected into the economy at a low level when someone sends winnings home or buys a necklace for his sweetheart. It's the same process we've seen throughout the Ukraine War, where we can see the trends of the current political economy take over existing functions in warfare.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:19
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Everything ever has been leading up to this moment. Wow!
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Apr 16, 2024 16:21
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Enjoy posted:alternatively, the nazi collaborators existed because the soviet regime had murdered their friends and family a few years prior So you're saying the Soviets were too merciful the first time around? Hard agree.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:24
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I'm not trying to riff on AFancyQuestionMark but it's adorable to think that a discussion on Stalinist purges would be considered horrendously off-topic in a thread that's had derails over the Romanian campaign of 1916, British colonial homosex, and the definition of air superiority vis-a-vis air supremacy.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:25
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don’t forget the analysis of politics as religion in Roman North Africa (my favorite so far )
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Apr 16, 2024 16:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:the definition of air superiority vis-a-vis air supremacy. i hate this one
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Apr 16, 2024 16:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm not trying to riff on AFancyQuestionMark but it's adorable to think that a discussion on Stalinist purges would be considered horrendously off-topic in a thread that's had derails over the Romanian campaign of 1916, British colonial homosex, and the definition of air superiority vis-a-vis air supremacy. Its super relevant. If Stalin hadn't been such a merciful baby when conducting the purges, we wouldn't even be having this war.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:26
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Nix Panicus posted:My wife is reading a book called The Injustice of Place that posits that extreme poverty in the US is the legacy of internal resource extraction colonies. Basically the experience of the plantation belt or coal country is closer to a South American resource colony than one of America's urban cores. Sounds plausible. Learning what mercantilism was in American History class and then seeing every subsequent example of it happening contemporarily being denied as such was eye opening Basically *puts resource curse on you* are we the baddies?
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Apr 16, 2024 16:27
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm not trying to riff on AFancyQuestionMark but it's adorable to think that a discussion on Stalinist purges would be considered horrendously off-topic in a thread that's had derails over the Romanian campaign of 1916, British colonial homosex, and the definition of air superiority vis-a-vis air supremacy.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:28
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this thread also extends the Marxism thread into USSR history and its applications, so the political discussion is an integral part of the menu lol
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Apr 16, 2024 16:30
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supersnowman posted:More details on the guy's death Ukraine's Telegram was kinda mad about. none of this is remotely a surprise when you have an gram of materalist thought the only people shocked and angered are the shitlibs
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Apr 16, 2024 16:33
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:But why? How is Deng different from Khrushev? deng didn’t throw Mao and the party’s historical legitimacy under the bus
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Apr 16, 2024 16:34
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 https://twitter.com/Tsihanouskaya/status/1780149140057378864
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Apr 16, 2024 16:34
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When your country face genocide and require harsh mobilization law. https://t.me/ukraine_watch/20666 quote:
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Apr 16, 2024 16:45
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Raskolnikov38 posted:deng didn’t throw Mao and the party’s historical legitimacy under the bus But he sort of did, by saying "70% right, 30% wrong" and eliminating the Gang of Four and Hua he did essentially the same as the Secret Speech and removing the Anti-Party Group. It's a difference in degree not in kind.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:47
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All Stalin and Belarus chat should stay on this thread. (Maybe not cultural revolution.)
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Apr 16, 2024 16:49
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Orange Devil posted:War fucks your brain up in all kinds of ways so rampant gambling makes sense. Sure but the old gambling wasn't A/B tested into oblivion to maximise profits from poor sods. There are no fair odds in apps.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:51
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crepeface posted:abby martin and jacobin put out this video about NATO recently. could be useful to send to people as an intro to gladio and the general cspam understanding of recent history. some things are much more palatable coming from a hot white woman with archival footage instead of a podcast guy with an annoying voice A couple minutes into this I got an ad about how Iran had targeted Muslim holy sites in Israel, and Israel show down the missiles aimed at Al Aqsa Mosque.
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Apr 16, 2024 16:55
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