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muscles like this? posted:I just finished The Wise Man's Fear yesterday and while I like the series as a whole god drat, Rothfuss does not know how to end a book. Neither books feel like it ends at a natural stopping point and instead just seems like he cuts it off. Also, he's spent one and a half books of Kvothe at the University, it'd be nice if he would actually move on from there. Yeah, I finished it a few days ago and this is pretty much how I feel. I don't really mind him being back at the University at this point, but I'm glad that most of the book didn't take place there. And I'm not sure of the ending. It took me awhile to actually get into it, because it was just the same University stuff that the last book ended with, but once the stroy started taking palce elsewhere, it flew for me. That is, until the Fleurian section. I've never felt like putting a book down more than I did during that part. It led to something neat in the Ctaeth, but uggghhh. I mean it's one thing to make a character undeniably awesome, but this was jsut going too far. It was just kind of embarassing to read. I won't comment on whether it's good book or not, because I honestly don't know good books from bad, but I was entertained enough, and I'm looking forward to the final book.
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May 4, 2011 16:09
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JT Jag posted:In retrospect the entire first half of the book (though it does have some good parts), particularly two "these awesome things happened, but you don't want to hear about that" sections, may have been an intentional troll by Rothfuss. This would've been funny if the book itself was much shorter. Doing that 2 or 3 times while spending how many chapters one amazing fairy sex is somethign else entirely. I'm not sure what, but it's not funny, so it can't be a troll.
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May 12, 2011 19:49
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JT Jag posted:If they had edited the fae down to Initial Sexcapades (they have to do that, Felurian is a sex goddess, that was always her thing), Kvothe Unwittingly Calling Felurian's True Name, Kvothe scams Felurian with a song, Shaed making/discussion of the stealing of the moon and the Cthaeh and cut out all the bizarre Extra Sexcapades, it would have been a legitimately interesting and fun section. As is it's a drag. This exactly. Sometimes Rothfuss' wordiness and over-description actually helps out, as sometimes the little details help the story and setting feel real. That was not one of those times.
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May 12, 2011 20:22
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Danhenge posted:My question is why the gently caress are you even comparing it to literature in the first place. Trying to compare some 3rd graders painting of a seashore with a master painter is a dumb exercise Because that third grader's painting of a seahorse has been released at a professional level, and as such, is bein compared to other professional works. If you're fine with that little seahorse, then fine. Keep looking at it, But people who look at paintings for a living will tell you that it's bad. I like these books, but I'm not gonna complain when someone knocks them down as bad literature.
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Jul 29, 2011 21:28
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JT Jag posted:The Road is a terrible book. I don't read very often, but something about The Name of the Wind just roped me in. I really fell in love with the book once Kvothe started telling his story. While I'm certain;y not a connoisseur of books by any means, I felt that it was a story well told, and it kept me interested through the entire thing. I stayed up almost entire nights telling myself "just one more chapter". I felt It honestly got me reading again for a little while. The Wise Man's Fear, though, felt far too long, and lumbered in alot of places. It felt slow, and osmewhat disjointed. By the end of the book, I really felt that I wasn't even interested in Kvothe anymore. He just because such a weird and unappealing main character. I really can't put my finger on it, but something made me just sort of angry that he felt himself a hero one way or another, and I got sick of his odd, smug sense of righteouness and superiority. I will probably still read the 3rd book if it manages to be significantly shorter than TWMF, but after having such a great time reading the first book, I feel like this series won't be one that I remember all that fondly looking back.
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Jul 29, 2011 22:03
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I wish there was less in these books about how poor Kvothe is and how much he's obsessed with Denna, and more about him learning magic and poo poo, and putting it to practical use. Kvothe is a stupid and unlikable character than is in a world that I find really interesting. I'm reading through Wise Man's Fear for the second time, hoping that maybe the only reason I remember disliking it was a loving third of the book being taken up by literal loving. But reading it again made me realize what a meandering and unpleasant read it is. I don't even think I can finish it a second time, because I know what's coming up. I really hope he pulls this all off in Doors of Stone or whatever, or has something else in the same world, because I find it so interesting. e: I know I can just get some things from BravestoftheLamps posts as far as story goes, but does anyone have recommendations of similar books with a focus on the magical systems in their worlds and how they work?
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Oct 21, 2015 16:25
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anilEhilated posted:What do you find so interesting about the world? It was bog-standard generic medieval fantasy last time I checked. I may have misspoke. I don't really read much fantasy, and what really caught me up in this one is the system of magics and such. They're all inter-related, based on the same basic principles, and pretty well described and specified within the story. I would seriously read nothing but Kvothe learning and applying different bindings and such and using them in clever ways. The second he leaves the university is pretty much the exact second it starts going irrecoverably downhill for me. I don't care how quick-witted or poor he is. I just wanna have him do clever poo poo with his bindings and names. Maybe I'm a simpleton or something, but that's seriously all I want out of these books.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:14
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HIJK posted:You might enjoy the magic system in Garth Nix's Abhorsen series. The system is based off "Charter marks" which are basically ancient runes. MenschMaschine posted:Huh, I read Sabriel once years ago but don't remember it very well. It's on my to-reread list along with the rest of the series, and I think you just convinced me to bump it up in priority. Nix had a short story in the "Rogues" anthology that I liked. (I also liked Patrick Rothfuss's story in that anthology a lot too - we need more material from Bast's point of view.) Sounds like it's right up my alley, then. Seems pretty well reviewed. I'll check it out next chance I get. Thanks!
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Oct 22, 2015 03:05
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anilEhilated posted:He's reading Rotfhuss, it's pretty safe to assume he does not. This is more or less true. Thanks for all of the recommendations. I think I'll end up trying out Sabriel and Mistborn first. The Wikipedia page for Mistborn has a goddamn chart to describe the magic system, so I know it's probably worth checking out.
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Oct 22, 2015 15:48
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Codex Alera has a better handling of charecter than Sanderson, and although it doesn't delve overmuch into the mechanics of its This wins for now. Not only by merit of being the only book immediately available on my library's e-book system, but also because of this: "Wikipedia posted:The inspiration for the series came from a bet Jim was challenged to by a member of the Del Rey Online Writer’s Workshop. The challenger bet that Jim could not write a good story based on a lame idea, and Jim countered that he could do it using two lame ideas of the challenger’s choosing. The “lame” ideas given were “Lost Roman Legion", and “Pokémon”.[1]
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Oct 23, 2015 19:51
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No authors owe any fan anything at all. I do not feel I am owed anything. However, this does not mean that I don't have a right to complain about the amount of time it is taking him to write a book that I'm technically looking forward to, but probably ultimately won't enjoy.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:18
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Earwicker posted:Of course you have the right, but I just don't understand the point of it - if you already know you won't even enjoy book, then why are you looking forward to it or care when it comes out? Because I want to like it, and genuinely hope it's good. I really enjoyed NotW, and am keeping my fingers crossed that most of WMF is just some sort of small stumbling block. I guess taking more time to fine-tune a book is better than rushing it out just to meet a release deadline, but his online presence just makes it at least appear that no serious or significant work is being done on it. I'm not expecting him to dedicate 24 hours a day to writing, but taking time to write for other projects and play video games for charity and being flippant about it all is a bit weird. Evil Fluffy posted:If Rothfuss was a human printing press like Sanderson we'd be waiting on the last book of the next (Bast's?) trilogy instead of Doors of Stone right now, or we'd still be waiting but we'd have gotten a trilogy about the Amir or something in the meanwhile. We got those Bast and Auri short stories, so that's something.
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Dec 14, 2015 20:38
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For me, it's not so much that he's a bad writer, it's just that he's not a great storyteller. TNotW is good enough, but is about 25% longer than it should be. WMF is an incohesive and, IIRC, unfocused slog that is about twice as long as it needs to be. There's enough, to me, that a decent enough story can be found in there, but it's so needlessly drawn out that is becomes a chore to get through. There's also a lot just going on with Kvothe himself. Him being a brilliant performer, a master arcanist and artificer, an unintentional namer, a natural-born lady-killer (except for one, of course), and constantly struggling to rub two coins of three or so available currencies together is a bit much. It makes the story feel unfocused, and means that any story being told also has the undercurrents of about 4 other stories as well. And there are enough loose threads at this point that I'd be surprised if even most of them are tied up in a satisfying way in Doors of Stone. I really do hope that Doors of Stone ends up being good. His writing on its own is fine, and I think the magic system is really great. But I'm just basically waiting for this thing to be over at this point, especially after TSRoST.
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Dec 15, 2015 15:10
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^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I don't think Kvothe being an unreliable narrator would make it any better. It would just mean I wasted my time on reading a made up story about a made up story. The legends surrounding him have to come from somewhere, though, so I'm sure there's at least some truth in a lot of what he's telling, just with exaggeration. Benson Cunningham posted:I think in isolation the first book is good. The second book is so bad though that now everyone focuses on the flaws of the first book rather than its merits. If rothfuss had evolved as a writer and delivered a really fascinating second book, I think people would look back favorably on the first book too. I still really like the first book, and haven't let my thoughts on the second taint my experience. I was able to recount a significant amount of the first book, and some early parts of the second that I thought were in the first, while I was re-reading it. Everything after he leaves University in WMF is a complete mystery to me, though, except for the weirdly out of place sex sections, and learning some sort of fantasy karate from a mercenary. There's no clear antagonist set up, aside from the Chandrian maybe, and IIRC no active threat or conflict for Kvothe to deal with at this point. I honestly can't say what Doors of Stone might even be about, which is sort of a problem. The only thing I can say with any sort of certainty is that all his strength and apparent sex goodness is going to mean nothing to Denna, and it's going to make him do something stupid. Earwicker posted:I don't think the second book would be nearly as bad overall if he hadn't done that whole sex elf sequence, I don't know wtf he was thinking with that, the rest of it was just too slow really. Seriously. This is mostly what I mean why I say it's twice as long as it should be. There's the whole elf sex sequence, and the rest of the book is needlessly slow. Not a fun read. SpacePig fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 17:01
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Earwicker posted:A huge part of the problem with fantasy (and scifi for that matter) is people putting so much effort into poo poo like world-building, fake languages, magic "systems", etc. and etc. that they forget that a good story needs things like compelling characters and plot. Spending more time researching the fake languages does not address that. That's one of the biggest problems with Rothfuss as well, I think. I really like the magic system he's made, and it's used pretty well in the story. There are portions of the books where he's just describing how some manner of sympathy works, and others where he's demonstrating those things, and those are some of the most interesting parts to me. He even has a weird amount of fantasy history that everyone seems to know, and variation on every story for every region, and a goddamn currency exchange system built into the world, each described to a point that nobody could possibly care about. And then the story surrounding it is just events happening with no apparent meaning.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:07
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:And consider the oxymoron of "a magic system". That authors can take a force of enchantment and irrationality, and systematize it (and without any sense of irony as with Jack Vance), tells me that fantasy literature is broken. Would you rather magic just work by random bullshit that people just happen to know how to do? If there's no set order of operations to magic, then it's just Calvinball.
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Dec 17, 2015 15:15
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Earwicker posted:I don't think there is anything wrong with having some sort of a system behind how magic works in a fictional world. But I think it is a problem when that it is a focus. Yeah, but when it's a book about a young doctor who doesn't know how to do brain surgery in he beginning, and the climax of the book is them applying what they've learned on a particularly difficult or abnormal surgery, it can be good to have some details about what, exactly, is happening. Kvothe's fight with that dragon is basically a culmination of everything he's learned in University, and not having some sort of explanation of how it works beforehand just makes it seem like he can do cool poo poo just because he can. Whether or not a thoroughly thought out magic system is necessary, and whether and to what degree the reader needs to know about it, really depends on what story is being told.
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Dec 17, 2015 17:56
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Evil Fluffy posted:And yet his posts were still better writing than Slow Regard. He stumbled into Postings, a typically unfriendly place. Today, instead, he found it somewhat welcoming, with an offer of a hug. This was atypical, but not unwelcome.
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Dec 25, 2015 19:23
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I think the Fallout 4 thing wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't been so public about how he was doing it in lieu of spending extra time writing the third book. If he had just said he was playing FO4, it would've been fine. Instead, he said "I could be spending some extra time writing since I'm already past my deadline, but instead I'll play Fallout 4." Not exactly ingratiating himself to people.
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Jan 19, 2016 03:03
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I don't feel any entitlement to a new book, and am now at the point that I really don't care when it comes out. That said, Rothfuss could absolutely be handling this delay better. No matter how hard one might actually be working, actively appearing as though you're blowing off doing the work to play video games is incredibly stupid. I'm sure he's very genuinely busy, and that his extraneous projects and appearances are probably worthwhile in some way, but he's putting out an image of spinning his wheels and doing nothing. I also just learned that he's been optioned for a TV show, a movie, and a video game, and negotiating all of that probably took up a decent enough deal of his time. This should probably light a fire under him to get the last book finished.
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Jan 19, 2016 15:13
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Evil Fluffy posted:Much like how the GoT series (and video games) lit a fire under GRRM's rear end and he wrote Winds of Winter much more quickly than ADWD? I mean, it technically should. It seems like it was optioned for TV previously, though, so maybe not. I'm not too big into GoT, but didn't the TV show force GMM's hand a little bit for Dance with Dragons in the first place? The Slithery D posted:Good use of his time. Haha, christ. Being a writer and "world-builder" for a video game RPG certainly won't cut into his primary writing time at all, nosiree. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/herossong/heros-song I know that I should probably be giving him a bit more leeway or something since I don't know how hard writing and editing in a professional capacity might be. But maybe I'd have an easier time believing that this was a good idea if he showed at all that he's able to finish even one major project in a timely manner.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:58
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I would seriously rather him just come out and say that Doors of Stone isn't coming out, and that the Kingkiller series is finished, rather than have him keep saying that the 3rd book is already done, for real, just stuck getting edited. If he's sick of writing it, he should come out and says as much. It's okay if he's burnt out on writing about Kvothe, or just genuinely doesn't care as much as he did when he started. That's fine. Just be honest about it.
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Jan 19, 2016 19:44
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jivjov posted:Okay. Where was this announced? Where did he say "Doors of Stone is cancelled and not coming out"? Why is it not reasonable to assume that something 5 years past an estimated deadline, and now 2 years past an adjusted deadline, is not coming out? Or at the very least, is no longer the primary focus of the author and may well be at least temporarily abandoned?
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Jan 20, 2016 16:36
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jivjov posted:I'm not denying that its delayed or has missed deadlines. But we have nothing to suggest that its been abandoned, temporarily or otherwise. Just recently, with the whole "Fallout 4 vs. Book Writing" thing, Rothfuss confirmed that he is still spending normal writing time working on Doors of Stone. Do you play video games? If so, do you know about a game called The Last Guardian? Just in case you don't, The Last Guardian is a game that's been "in development" since 2007, was announced in 2009, with an expected release in 2011. 2001 came and went with no release, and with no real reason. Years kept passing, and Sony basically kept insisting it was still coming out, still in development, still everything it needed to be to become a retail-released game very soon. There's a new release scheduled for some time this year, but with this dragged out of a development, most people think it's pretty reasonable to think that this 2016 projection is another smokescreen, and it's incredibly likely that we won't ever see the game released. Nobody thinks it' crazy to think this. Ornamented Death posted:500 million words about balancing a budget. In what currency? I've borrowed 4 talents, and have a coin purse with about 6 shims and 3 jots in it. I need passage to Yll, and the ferryman won't accept anything but commonwealth coin. The fare to Yll is 3 copper pennies. How much will I have left after I pay the money changer and the ferryman?
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Jan 20, 2016 17:16
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Yeah, nothing is owed at all by any creator. It's sort of silly to think that they you owe you anything. Rothfuss is still handling this incredibly poorly if he actually intends to release it.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:39
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CerealCrunch posted:Of course content creators owe us things. Where did you get the idea that they don't? Unless you've already paid him for his unreleased book, then you're not really owed anything at all. If you have somehow, then the most you're owed if he doesn't finish is a refund.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:45
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CerealCrunch posted:Purchase of the first book is a down payment on the completed series. Purchase of the first book is a purchase of a single book. Whether the series continues or not is entirely up to the author and publisher.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:58
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jivjov posted:People like to make it sound like I'm the only one who recognizes that I am owed no future works by an author...but: I will say, though, that while I agree that authors owe us nothing, I'm also of the mind that Rothfuss is dragging his feet and won't finish the book anytime soon. I don't expect him to, and don't think he owes it to me to. Wangsbig posted:the two quoted posters pull their hats over their faces and rush out of the thread This was probably the better option. SpacePig fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 19:15
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jivjov posted:And even taking that into consideration, the book is still being written. It has not been cancelled. Even if you're deluded into thinking that Rothfuss is under some insurmoutable obligation to produce Doors of Stone...congratulations, he is doing exactly that. Ostensibly.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:36
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This slap fight is getting us nowhere. Nobody is getting their minds changed in this thread regarding Rothfuss' work ethic or the idea of "owing fans". Can we just go back to talking about how bad the Felurian sections of WMF were?
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Jan 20, 2016 20:00
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You just earned your pipes, my friend.
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Jan 21, 2016 02:49
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The Kicksarter for that game that Rothfuss was going to do "World Building" for has been cancelled. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/herossong/heros-song/posts/1474916 quote:Hello Everyone, It's still getting released, I guess, but it looks like they realized that they put together a bad campaign for a game that's not finished enough to even begin to show off.
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Jan 26, 2016 20:49
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The Hanged Man posted:Good for you, because I think that this thread gave me irreparable brain damage. Goddamn silences "feeling" different from other silences. Just put some semi-logical sentences together, who gives a gently caress. I can't believe I'm about to agree with jivjov again, but silence absolutely have different emotional connotations. Silence in a previously bustling room. Silence between friends after a tragic event. Reverent silence, nervous silence, ominous silence. He still isn't great at describing them, and is overly wordy at doing it, but the basic idea of separate and different silence isn't completely unreasonable.
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Jan 28, 2016 15:27
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The Hanged Man posted:Those are not different silences. You just described different events that had involved silence in them at some point. Also, real cool how you use personal moments from your life to prove something to somebody in the Internet (hope your Mom's ok, though). I mean, there's a difference between individual silence and ambient silence. It could be two people sitting silently on a bench in an otherwise busy airport. It could be that the entire area immediately surrounding them is silent, but you can still hear things going on in the distance. Or it could be that somehow the entire airport is silent. Even if the reason that they themselves are silent for the same reason, the impact of the moment changes due to their surroundings. Again, Rothfuss doesn't do it well. But it's not like it's so weird of a concept.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:36
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jivjov posted:A cut flower is really apt for Kvothe though...the appearance of life and vitality, but look close and there's no root. Slowly but inexorably dying. I had to look up the exact quote to make see if it actually was a quote about the silence itself being like that of a cut flower, just to make sure I wasn't regarding this conversation wrong. Lo and behold: quote:“It was the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die.” Comparing Kvothe himself to a cut flower is fine, but comparing the silence to a cut flower is a bit much. A cut flower doesn't really have a distinct silence at all.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:47
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Benson Cunningham posted:Agree to disagree I guess. I'm pretty sure it's going to be Kvothe that kills her somehow, too, either through direct attack not knowing it's her, or through inaction that he inexplicably blames himself for. The Hanged Man posted:I didn't miss your point. Yes, you can use silence to convey emotion. You can probably use anything in the world to convey emotion. However, without an actual event from where the emotion originates, what you get is an empty word construct that means nothing. It's the author telling me what I'm supposed to feel. You get the emotion but at this point it has become over-simplified and generic. I mean, just try reading the examples you've given me, but only the silence parts, as if you don't know what events generate them. Hell, try shuffling them around and see what happens. I think I finally get the point you're trying to make. It's not necessarily that silence can't have different emotional weight, but it's that the slence can't be like something. Red-haired man sitting silently with himself waiting to die is more than enough. Describing him is the important part, not describing the silence.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:28
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BananaNutkins posted:The only thing Rothfuss has produced since have been embarrassing reddit Ama's, tweets that no author of sound mind would tweet, and misogynistic and goony blog posts. I agree with this post basically 100%, but his Bast story in the Rouges collection is actually pretty decent. Bast is probably the best thing to come out of all of this after he went and ruined Auri.
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Feb 2, 2016 03:57
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I have no real problem with jivjov, but their bright-eyed optimism regarding Rothfuss is a bit off-putting.
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Feb 2, 2016 21:01
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Torrannor posted:If only Rothfuss would release a new book that we could talk about instead. We could talk about Slow Regard again. I think it's the first time in my life I couldn't even be bothered to finish a book that short. I would say it felt about 3 times its actual length.
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Feb 2, 2016 21:24
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Kingkiller Chronicles: Number of Kings Killed: 0 Patrick Rothfuss: Silence Like a Cut Flower, Prose Like Your Posting HIJK posted:Patrick Rothfuss: All Of You Shut Up
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Feb 4, 2016 20:30
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