AMD CPU and Platform Discussion: Ryzen Might Be...Good? *knocks on wood*

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > AMD CPU and Platform Discussion: Ryzen Might Be...Good? *knocks on wood*

«‹›8 »

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

wipeout posted:

I really hope Zen rocks. But, even if it does, will there be great boards for it, and mini ITX and nvme and such?

I just want ECC support

# ¿ Jun 10, 2015 20:25

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 1, 2024 02:59

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

"wait why are all the pins on the connector instead of the socket"

# ¿ Jun 12, 2015 19:03

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FaustianQ posted:

Oh jesus loving christ, I'd kill to replace my HP 8460p with an ASUS X555D. Why would you think people would not want to buy these? Won't these be a much more affordable price for performance?

B-B-B-But Iris Pro :jerkbag:

# ¿ Jun 13, 2015 17:27

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FaustianQ posted:

US DOD? One could look at competitive processing performance as a state security measure.

Still, Zen should only need to get within 10% of Skylake, hit a comparable power target, and undercut on price to recover as a viable alternative?

There's also trouble with high frequencies on the 14nm node, and if Intel hasn't gotten that down pat by late this year (Skylake's release) there's already another opportunity made.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2015 18:15

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Rastor posted:

So even Intel can't push forward. Moore's Law has hit the wall on silicon.

Here's to hoping quantum physics works in our favor and we end up summoning eldritch horrors :unsmigghh:

# ¿ Jun 24, 2015 17:55

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

HalloKitty posted:

However, people hate on AMD's GPUs, but they're still much closer to NVIDIA's offerings than their CPUs are to Intels. They'd need to make a huge increase in single-thread performance and drastically cut power consumption to catch up.

I just want the return of low-power low-cost hobby ECC servers that the Athlon2/Phenom2 line made possible :smith:

# ¿ Jun 24, 2015 19:44

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Twerk from Home posted:

Can't you still get ECC support from Pentium branded Intel CPUs? Just not i5s or i7s.

http://ark.intel.com/products/82723/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G3258-3M-Cache-3_20-GHz

ECC LGA1150 motherboards have a $70 price premium while Athlon2/Phenom2 supported ECC natively on the CPU.

Bulldozer-era FX still does, but lmfao minimum 95w power draw

# ¿ Jun 24, 2015 19:55

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FaustianQ posted:

Also why not pick up a Phenom II can plug it into the board?

They died of natural causes and we can find no replacements that aren't gouging new boxes of 6 year old tech :smithicide:

# ¿ Jun 24, 2015 23:43

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Paul MaudDib posted:

If you really want to cheap out you could try digging up a used workstation. I had an HP Z400 with a Xeon W3565 that came with 16GB of ECC memory, and I see them on Newegg (in somewhat stripped, condition, 4-8GB memory and no drives IIRC) for like $300-350 all the time. Fair warning, they use a proprietary power supply and the PSU ratings are 30-50% higher than what it can deliver. Really thought, just pony up and buy the right thing the first time instead of wasting your money on junk.

That's pretty much what I'm doing this year, an i3 (don't laugh) setup worth about $1.1k (most of the cost is from the ridiculous amount of drives). And to create value I'm gonna stuff it with a bunch of drives with ZFS raid z3 to hold all the crap my brother and I amass. I'm not sure I should be going with anything stronger than an i3 for that.

I wish I went with ECC on my AM3 mini ITX desktop-turned-NAS experiment from 3 years ago instead of just turning it into a gaming box to burn it out, though.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2015 00:45

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

A Bad King posted:

Hey, look at AMD and Samsung, getting all cozy and warm together on the couch. Isn't that nice?

http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/amd-embedded-gseries-2015jun17.aspx

I've been extremely curious as to what and whom AMD has been selling (if at all) their "G-series" of embedded APUs, and it seems like Samsung is throwing them a bone with the marrow picked out in the form of cheap thin-client "cloud monitors?"

All this talk about Samsung potentially making a bid on AMD's x86 properties seems more realistic now...

Samsung buying AMD would make the 14nm brawl even more hilarious

# ¿ Jun 25, 2015 18:22

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

A Bad King posted:

An immensely one sided agreement. How the hell did AMD agree to that?! Why would they agree to that? That just begs to set up a DoJ trust suit, regardless.

The kind of antitrust suit Samsung actually has has the assets to fight in, I'd wager.

Things will be all kinds of interesting if the pin drops.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2015 22:23

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Ozz81 posted:

Are you still looking for an AM3 CPU? I've got an older Phenom II x4 920 I'm not using, I had an AM3 box I upgraded years back and kept the old CPU/heatsink. I don't have any use for it, gave my old AMD tower to my dad and beefed it up a bit so he could play his flight sim games.

Nope, I'm just going to go with the i3 project for the time being. Thanks though.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2015 01:28

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FaustianQ posted:

Would AMD get more people on board with slightly better than sand perf at stock with monstrous headroom, or much less headroom but slightly better than Haswell?

OEMs would love the gently caress out of the latter, the enthusiasts and the shrinking amount of home builders would prefer the former, but OEMs are pretty much the sales drivers of x86 now. It's more likely we're going to see around-the-ballpark-of Haswell performance with less headroom but lower power usage. I wouldn't put it past them to make a comically overvolted chipset and Black Edition line for enthusiasts though.

A full Zen SOC--with HBM, GPU, and CPU all on the die--may be AMD's one big shot for OEMs to poo poo their pants and buy them in truckloads to make cute little gaming-grade PCs and not-comically-pathetic mini workstations. That's assuming they pull it off, of course.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2015 02:33

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

The Athlon x4 860K is okay.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2015 03:20

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

I meant for that guy who refuses to buy Intel at all. I wouldn't settle for less than Intel anything at this point in time *, though I'd prefer the S/T chips only because you lose like very performance using those compared to the power-chugging equivalents. Plus you stop having to give a poo poo about putting expensive coolers in your case :v:

*(my home server is going to change from an AM1 5350 to an LGA1150 C226 Xeon E3-1265L because they finally sold a low wattage part on Newegg and due to me breaking the pins on my gaming motherboard I will also use it for gaming)

# ¿ Jul 18, 2015 03:44

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Paul MaudDib posted:

I told him to buy a G3258 and a Z97 PC Mate back when you could get that combo from MicroCenter for $80+tax but he wouldn't listen.

He can also still use an AMD GPU. Those things actually last, unlike Nvidia's non-flagships

# ¿ Jul 18, 2015 03:50

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

It was just a way to use up all the Kabini chips that didn't sell. I'm not even sure Beema or Carrizo can even be used on it since they're far more capable than Kabini.

They did make the best $80 builds though :911:

# ¿ Jul 18, 2015 04:25

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

They just renamed FM3 to AM4.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2015 04:34

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

SwissArmyDruid posted:

I thought they were using GloFo's Samsung-based 14nm FinFET, unless I completely missed something? As I understand it, Samsung's process is already quite mature.

I'm gonna hazard a guess that TSMC's 16nm may be the GPU tech and GF/Samsung's 14nm may be CPU tech.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2015 04:24

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FWIW Intel had trouble putting out chips beefier than Core M until 1/3 into this year. The process tech might just be that much closer, especially now that Cannonlake is looking at a mid-2017 release if that doesn't slide again.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2015 08:07

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

THE DOG HOUSE posted:

Is this supposed to be a sick burn or an actual benefit lol

AMD GPUs tend not to suddenly explode. As much as they rebrand the GPUs themselves are surprisingly durable while I haven't had an Nvidia card, flagship or not, last more than 1.5 years

# ¿ Jul 20, 2015 15:15

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

No, process tech wasn't part of that discussion, it was pure performance in terms of IPC. It'll be CPU design that'll effect that metric. If the process turns out to be good for AMD they'll be able to get similar or higher clocks with a somewhat higher TDP so performance-wise it could end up very close to Haswell and within arm's reach of Skylake.

That is close enough to be good selling product if they price it right.

The price difference for AMD's hyperthreading and 2mb extra L3 cache will also likely be lower than $100 :v:

# ¿ Jul 20, 2015 15:29

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

If its for a single thread than it should do well against Haswell and Skylake at similar clockspeeds. If it includes SMT then that is not very good at all. You'd be looking at Sandy Bridge-esque single thread performance. In late 2016. Hardly terrible performance but it'd mean Zen would only be competitive with Intel's mid range at best.

Not particularly. A larger amount of applications and even games are becoming thread-hungry and IPC improvements don't necessarily include SMT in these sorts of things, as SMT threads are used last in line in basically every implentation after Pentium 4.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2015 15:43

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

Multi thread matters more than it used to but single thread performance is still king. Past 4 'cores' (threads) is still not needed by most.

If multi thread performance really mattered AMD's *dozer sales wouldn't be so dismal. They actually do pretty decent on anything that is heavily multi threaded. Just not much still is.

I'm not sure that they would get close to Intel on a single thread, since nobody else is close to doing that (AMD is still one of the closest companies to doing that, even with construction cores.) and the "flagship" Zen parts will be 4c/8t and 8c/16t.

Though that philosophy might change since they're considering 1-core+SMT parts for low-end mobile and tablet systems and there's pretty much nothing else you can do for that other than make sure single-thread performance is good.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2015 16:05

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

So long as Zen is decent they've got a shot, if its not...they could indeed be gone by 2018 like that analyst said recently.

AMD's demise also has amazing implications for the desktop and server performance space. The only solace is that it's also kind of a sinking ship since ARM is getting way better market share in basically everything consumer. Outside of that, Intel would actually force the development of pushing better ARM performance for servers/datacenters/scientific equipment if they stagnate even further than they have already.

PC LOAD LETTER posted:

The only reason I'm not totally skeptical at this point is they pulled off something similar before with the K7 and circumstances were nearly as dire back then too. If the K7 had done poorly they'd have gone bankrupt within a year or 2.

AMD is really the do-or-die protagonist in the computer world and I'm not sure if that's tragic or heartwarming.

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jul 20, 2015

# ¿ Jul 20, 2015 16:12

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Truga posted:

Of course, this will never happen. Even during the heyday of amd64, only enthusiasts cared about the performance gain over intel. Normal people I knew just kept buying intel because "it always worked well for me, ain't buyin no shady AMD poo poo".

Considering what Intel has done to keep their edge in that era, they should really have appreciated the irony in that statement :v:

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jul 20, 2015

# ¿ Jul 20, 2015 19:33

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Boiled Water posted:

We keep rehashing desktop processors as the thing that'll save or drown AMD but how well do these machines sell compared to laptops? Are they perhaps catering to a market too small to keep their company alive?

OEMs would love to sell things that are just as capable for $100 cheaper, and Zen being capable at low wattages can also drive laptop sales, at least enough so that Intel's poison pill contracts for OEMs won't be as enticing.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2015 20:39

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Jago posted:

This is anecdotal bullshit and probably fanboyism.

Former yes, but the latter no. That's what warranties are for :v:

(had to RMA a GTX 275 twice over, value!)

Tanreall posted:

They're going with the Intel system of making server CPUs that trickle down to the desktop market.

Isn't this what they were already doing?

# ¿ Jul 21, 2015 00:18

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Prescription Combs posted:

I'm riding out my SB system in hopes that Zen is worth while.

The best part is that you won't have to replace it for 5 more years if it isn't

# ¿ Jul 22, 2015 20:52

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FaustianQ posted:

Yes, a "good deal". One that is not meant in a relative, exploitative, sardonic context.

Honestly if anyone thought Intel wouldn't be enormous assholes about x86 then maybe there would be interest in a cheaper VIA buyout. There isn't, Intel is happy to have a monopoly on x86 because lol, what the gently caress is anyone going to do about it?

Everyone and everything making the move to ARM because it's magnitudes cheaper. They're already scaling up their server muscle, why not the set-top home entertainment and enthusiast arena?

or, comedy PowerPC option :shepicide:

# ¿ Jul 23, 2015 04:39

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Boiled Water posted:

That's pretty impressive. Releasing new products and losing money hand over fist.

If it weren't for the x86 gently caress-you they would have been bought a long time ago

# ¿ Jul 24, 2015 17:42

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

SwissArmyDruid posted:

I am slightly concerned how the Intel/Micron crosspoint memory announcement was timed, though. If we're accelerating work on large data sets by making the storage medium fast enough to allow direct manipulation while bypassing traditional memory, it could make the idea of bringing GPU compute and memory onto the CPU die the final too-little, too-late entry in AMD's wikipedia page.

I'd wager this was part of the reason of the development of HBM in the first place.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2015 03:13

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Paul MaudDib posted:

Absolutely, if you're on the clock you buy real hardware. And for general home use a G3258 is really hard to beat for the money. It's not that great for beefy stuff like media encoding, but that fucker overclocks like crazy, on a per-core basis it can usually keep up with a 4770K in games. Used to be that you could pick it up with a Z97 board at Microcenter for $100 before tax and before a $10 rebate. Can't argue with that. You can still get pretty close to that if you're willing to take open-box gear.

an MSI H81 and an actually functional cooler can still get you to 4.3-4.4ghz for $85 total for a g3258 setup

# ¿ Aug 7, 2015 00:29

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

I look forward to Intel selling the same chip each year for 20 more years.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2015 22:34

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Palladium posted:

You can do 5GHz with a G3258 and it still won't be able to beat a 3.6GHz Haswell i3 that goes for only $50 more in gaming outside of super singlethreaded stuff like Dolphin; There is no free lunch left to squeeze out of Intel. Pay attention to how bad the minimums and stutters are on the Pentium in GTA5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbglcO1QFjM

The Pentium is below the market segment where GTA5 at its current price makes sense, so it still works, but there's a really good reason why Intel backed off on the unlocked core i3 project they toyed around with in Ivy Bridge.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2015 15:30

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

Brace for Intel selling the same chip for 20 more years.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2015 02:26

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

The question is, is it going to be done by 24 ARM cores or 6 x86 cores in 20 years

# ¿ Aug 13, 2015 03:31

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

FaustianQ posted:

No one will want to deal with Intels lovely monopoly.

They will buy the same Xeon chip for years until something else becomes even faster at relatively proportional power envelopes. ARM is scaling upwards pretty hilariously entirely due to mobile.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2015 03:55

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

SwissArmyDruid posted:

http://wccftech.com/amd-one-fpu-per-core-design-zen-processors/

Yay for self-explanatory URLs.

The usual WCCFT caveats apply.

Isn't that something we knew from the beginning though

# ¿ Aug 14, 2015 23:32

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 1, 2024 02:59

Anime Schoolgirl: Nov 28, 2002

lDDQD posted:

If Zen ends up being only 5% slower than Broadwell, I might just buy it out of pity.

If they reach that per-thread performance spitball, the key would be to undercut Intel on both the full-featured chipsets and the CPU, the former being something AMD has failed to do with their sockets thus far.

More importantly, they have to put out a mobile platform OEMs actually would want since that's where the consumer money is. A mid-performance dual core 15-20w part competitive with Intel's i3s that doesn't cost $250-$300 a chip would be a start.

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Aug 15, 2015

# ¿ Aug 15, 2015 04:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > AMD CPU and Platform Discussion: Ryzen Might Be...Good? *knocks on wood*

«‹›8 »