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54.4 crowns posted:gently caress that to DEATH! It was a poo poo idea then and its a poo poo idea now. Voting for the partition plans in India and Palestine is the biggest blunder in its existence. You do remember what was required to hold the Yugoslavian federation together, right?  Now, I wonder where we could find an equally adept strongman to keep things together?  Oh.
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Jun 28, 2014 03:40
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Brown Moses posted:Breaking on AP ReV VAdAUL posted:What did the Kurds ever do to Israel to get a kiss of death like that? ufarn posted:Is there a particular relation between Israel and Kurdish Iraq, or is it more of an "International Community" thing? I've been seeing rumors about it for a couple of days in Israeli media. Israelis assisted Kurdish resistance along with the Americans and the Shah's Iran, fighting against Saddam Hussein. They even had contacts with Massoud Barazani himself. There's a book by a Mossad operative about the history of that, unfortunately it's in Hebrew and I don't think I'll be having access to it anytime soon. The Wikipedia Page looks kind of dodgy, but has some further sources.
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Jun 29, 2014 19:28
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Sucrose posted:I don't think anything is going to particularly doom the Kurds at this point, unless a bunch of state actors suddenly turn on them. Yeah, I somehow don't think Massoud Barzani is really afraid of being endorsed by Israel. It's not as much of a spoiler as it used to be, apparently.
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Jun 29, 2014 20:42
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Sergg posted:Nope. The Saudi royals have perfected buying off the populace with their infinite money.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:06
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computer parts posted:Literally 20% of their population are foreign nationals that they hire to do the actual dirty work for them. And suppose ISIS comes over and tells them "hey, you guys can still live the life that you want, but we're taking these rear end in a top hat royals away that you've spent your life resenting. You probably won't notice the difference because we'll impose the same Islamic restrictions that you've come to know and love"? Who is going to be fighting for the House of Saud (other than the US)? They don't have to actually follow through with all of it, just make a lot of promises now that they'll break later, and make it easy for the Saudi enlisted to change sides without much of a fight. Hell, with the amount the Saudi royals apparently squander, they may not even need to tap into the welfare money for a long while. Anybody have a good rundown of the actual form of that welfare, by the way? I'm having a hard time getting good information through Wikipedia+Google. SALT CURES HAM posted:An ISIS-held Saudi Arabia would be very bad for the US, and unlike Iraq it would be very easy to justify helping out the Saudi government. Unless it takes too long for the US to step in. Boots on the ground can't resurrect the dead.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:33
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MrNemo posted:The thing is ISIS wouldn't really have any significant support inside SA. As much as Saudis may love back seat Jihading and throwing money at people who talk about destroying the infidel, pretty much all of them live very comfortable lives. For most of them SA is a fairly ideal Islamic country (properly strict without being 'crazy') and the House of Saud keep everything running very nicely. They are very happy to help bring Jihad to awful foreign places but there is a vanishingly small number in the country that want to actually endanger the deal they've currently got.
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Jun 30, 2014 03:48
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Vernii posted:You're assuming that the average Saudi citizen is as conservative as the state institutions that keep the country a theocratic hellhole, which is a large mistake. quote:Second, the Saudi army is pretty poo poo, but the SANG is actually halfway competent compared to them, and unlike the army, it's specifically dedicated to protecting the monarchy. It's membership is specifically composed of tribes that are loyal to the royal family and relatives of the king. It's almost as large as the Army as well, and this isn't even getting into the intelligence branches focused on weeding out internal threats. quote:The Saudis haven't stayed on top of that shithole for as long as they have by just bribery, there's very much a stick to go along with the carrots that they've been feeding everyone, and that stick is getting disappeared if you're too much of a troublemaker. Also, you seem to think that tightly-controlled societies are stable, instead of learning from, say, the collapse of the Soviet bloc, that such societies become extremely fragile when pushed over a certain threshold. The question is whether ISIS has that push. quote:The US wouldn't gently caress around at all, it's probably one of the few issues that Democrats and Republicans would march lockstep in, and the Saudi army and secret police would get a blank check to go hog wild. I don't know, I have a hard time trusting in the "genius" of an operator who has managed to put all of its heft around the losing Al Qaeda franchise in Syria, and had the winner push them into working closely with its main regional competitor, Iran. War Nerd seems to be falling into a fallacy here; just because the Saudis managed to survive doesn't mean they have a magic formula to survive, or that their tactics are going to keep them around when circumstances change. Sometimes bubbles burst and take you with them. Anyway, his analysis seems to naturally segue into discounting ISIS. For the sake of the region, I hope he's right. But I have to say I think he's just bought a certain narrative and is sticking with it to the bitter end.
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Jun 30, 2014 06:46
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Umiapik posted:Well, the IDF have already killed half a dozen or so Palestinian youths in the course of investigating this kidnapping but that was before the teenagers were found dead. I'd assume they'll kill another 20 or 30 now before they're satisfied. It's really kind of hosed up. Even social media is all astir with people wanting to go out and take revenge on the Palestinians. I've pointed out that the disproportionate response had already been done, and was actually harmful to the investigation, but I think I'm a terrible Arab-lover now or something. ReV VAdAUL posted:Not that we'd ever find out if it was the case but it would be interesting to see Israel's reaction if it turned out a fellow illegal settler had murdered them. Or it turned out they'd only recently been killed and if the Israeli government hadn't spent their time harassing HAMAS they'd likely been able to find them. I do agree that focus on proper police work would probably have turned up the bodies sooner, and caused less collateral damage. But, again, I'm some "Arab lover" who does not immediately respond to anything bad done by an Arab with "let's start killing all of them indiscriminately, that'll learn them", so I'm probably not the person to talk to.
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Jun 30, 2014 20:06
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Kurtofan posted:My grandfather hates BHL with a passion, because he said people should boycott Corsica because of organized crime. Obviously not organized enough if they're letting this disrespect pass.
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Jul 1, 2014 21:35
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Radio Prune posted:Well they have identical positions and stances, make identical posts and use the same sources. Oh, and there was that time BabyChoom said he'd also been posting under the username "guyincognito". But maybe it's a coincidence? My God, we really don't know how to detect sarcasm or trolling in this forum.  By the way, I think all Israel/Palestine derails are supposed to go to their own thread. It's not like it's really constructive over there, but at least this thread can stay on point without too much bloviating/ranting.
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Jul 2, 2014 18:48
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dinoputz posted:At this point I don't think they even have to come out with anti-Western/anti-Israel rhetoric anymore; it's more than implied. They're just more concerned with the operating area at the moment. I'm sure striking the West/Israel would be on the agenda if they last long enough into the near-future (they won't). The video posted here earlier, documenting the aftermath of their conquest of a border crossing between Iraq and Syria, made fun of the US (one person there was telling Obama to make sure his soldiers come in with diapers), and clearly stated that they will be praying in Al Aqsa (the mosque in Al Quds/Jerusalem) soon.
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Jul 4, 2014 19:21
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Cat Mattress posted:Mali and Central Africa say it is. Yeah, but that was France. The US doesn't have that kind of international legitimacy coupled with political will anymore.
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Jul 5, 2014 20:46
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Sithsaber posted:We're doomed as soon as they co-opt the genies. They'll just get depressed, lower their update frequency, and eventually close the thread and get banned by Allowtax. So there is still hope! 
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Jul 6, 2014 00:14
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Sithsaber posted:Wait, are you saying ISIS has displayed on site forums activity? They said they were going to do it once a week, but they kept finding excuses to postpone it, and Allowtax got tired of their excuses.
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Jul 6, 2014 00:19
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silvergoose posted:Y'know, I'm vaguely curious. What *is* the IS's "plan" for the state of Israel? I think I've thusfar not heard anything about it, since they've been fully focused on Syria and Iraq and such.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:53
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ReV VAdAUL posted:According to someone Brown Moses retweeted Saudi is using a variety of units from other nations to guard their borders because they fear their elements of their own military might side with ISIS: That is very strange, because when StabbinHobo and myself brought up the question of Saudi Arabia succumbing to ISIS through an internal revolt, these were some the responses: Sergg posted:Nope. The Saudi royals have perfected buying off the populace with their infinite money. MrNemo posted:The thing is ISIS wouldn't really have any significant support inside SA. As much as Saudis may love back seat Jihading and throwing money at people who talk about destroying the infidel, pretty much all of them live very comfortable lives. For most of them SA is a fairly ideal Islamic country (properly strict without being 'crazy') and the House of Saud keep everything running very nicely. They are very happy to help bring Jihad to awful foreign places but there is a vanishingly small number in the country that want to actually endanger the deal they've currently got. Vernii posted:You're assuming that the average Saudi citizen is as conservative as the state institutions that keep the country a theocratic hellhole, which is a large mistake. Second, the Saudi army is pretty poo poo, but the SANG is actually halfway competent compared to them, and unlike the army, it's specifically dedicated to protecting the monarchy. It's membership is specifically composed of tribes that are loyal to the royal family and relatives of the king. It's almost as large as the Army as well, and this isn't even getting into the intelligence branches focused on weeding out internal threats. Some of these posters, as well as others did mention US support at the time, but I'm wondering why the above arguments are no longer valid.
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Jul 10, 2014 21:21
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How are u posted:If ISIS declares war on FIFA I'm genuinely unsure which side I'd support. They'd have plenty of sympathy among the migrant laborers, that's for sure. Dhimmitude might not seem so bad compared to what they have to deal with.
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Jul 11, 2014 07:05
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Cocoa Ninja posted:Genuine curiosity, what constitutes a shitload? Is it that 200 killed is a huge proportion or that they've been genuinely decimated? Special as in their actions are especially heinous?
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Jul 14, 2014 04:54
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silvergoose posted:Is posting onion articles here looked down upon? Because if not... Libertarianism works, ladies and gentlemen! 
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Jul 17, 2014 17:34
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Friendly Factory posted:We don't have the millions personally. Archaeological foundations, in this case a collection of museums I believe, are the source of the money. It's just as bad as the lovely museums that buy stolen artefacts, only on a bigger scale. It would be lovely if you explained what on Earth you're talking about, because at this point I'm not getting anything other than an incoherent rant against archeology and museums and no real relation to the Taliban destroying statues. Who made which lovely decisions when?
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Jul 20, 2014 05:23
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sullat posted:That's incredibly poor logic, if that was the case. Unless the money was in some form that cannot be spent on children (eg, bitcoins) the Taliban turned down money that could go to their children in order to blow up statues. They put ideology (idolology, maybe? I'm sure there's a good pun in there somewhere) above people. Also, apparently nobody strictly Muslim has ever donated money for a Mosque or a religious site. In true legit Islam, all possible money is given to the poor, without exception. Incidentally, I can't imagine there weren't simultaneous UN relief efforts, if the Taliban were allowing them in. Overall, this sounds like a very poor argument towards the criminal nature of Big Archaeology.
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Jul 20, 2014 05:49
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People  'd that image for a reason, I don't think those who haven't looked at it want the gory details in prose. At least [spoiler] that stuff, or something.  ETA: ^^^ Thanks! Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 20, 2014 23:47
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tsa posted:Ah gotcha, I wasn't about to mouse over that to find out if it was text or not. Yeah, let's keep in mind that the only way HW kept a coalition of Arab states fighting against Iraq is Israel sitting there and taking the SCUDs without responding. I would see them seeking refuge in Israel before I'd see them openly asking Israel to protect their countries.
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Jul 21, 2014 00:11
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Dreissi posted:God drat am I in the same universe? I can't find the seriously good review of the subject, but there's a bit here about Iranian cooperation with the Bush Administration just after 9/11 and before he decided he wants them in the Axis of Evil anyway. A missed opportunity if ever there was one.
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Jul 25, 2014 02:07
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Cippalippus posted:No dictatorship in the style of Assad is built to last very long, and actually the Baa'thist Syria lasted for a quite long time. This said, regimes like Assad's Syria are best brought down with international appeasement rather than with brutal force; I'm thinking about Spain or Portugal, or several South/Central American states.  quote:Instead, the american policy of always backing Israel has had the long lasting effect of rooting Assad in his post. The Assads used this card to strenghten their grip on power, being given a convenient and always ready scarecrow. Regimes like those are built on the premise of an outside evil force prying on the nation. So you're supporting Russia's backing of Syria because it's a regime that is built on the premise of an outside evil force prying[sic] on the nation, but not the US's support of Israel, a similarly paranoiac regime, which is just not quite as effective at killing its citizens and subjects? If Protective Edge lasts a few more months and kills a few tens of thousands of Palestinians, if Israel starts using sarin, barrel bombs, and chlorine on a regular basis, are you then finally going to start warming up to Israel? I mean, they, too are keeping those unstable fundamentalist Sunnis from acting up. 
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Jul 28, 2014 22:14
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SedanChair posted:100% of Iraqis in this picture loved intervention. FAUXTON posted:It's kind of unsettling how much that looks like  (Sorry, huge image fit for a huge man) Content: I don't think it's been addressed here, but a friend was actually taken in by a conspiracy theory stating that Edward Snowden revealed documents showing that Al-Baghdadi was trained by Mossad. That is not the case, says Time Magazine. I would imagine that an actual Snowden leak to this effect would be reported in the Guardian or the Washington Post.
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Jul 30, 2014 03:00
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Gregor Samsa posted:The presence of nontrivial Christian populations in Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Turkey, etc. got me wondering: are there any middle eastern states (aside from Israel, obviously) states with a significant Jewish population? If so, does anybody know what their role/relationship with the rest of society is there? Iran: quote:Iran's Jewish community is officially recognized as a religious minority group by the government, and, like the Zoroastrians, they are allocated one seat in the Iranian Parliament. Siamak Moreh Sedgh is the current Jewish member of the parliament, replacing Maurice Motamed in the 2008 election. In 2000, former Jewish MP Manuchehr Eliasi estimated that at that time there were still 60,000–85,000 Jews in Iran; most other sources put the figure at 25,000.[48] The United States State Department estimated the number of Jews in Iran at 20,000–25,000 as of 2009.[49] 
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Jul 30, 2014 17:52
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GuyinCognito posted:Yes Israel does destroy Jewish communities elsewhere in the world to boost their ranks. Before it was Iran with decades of threats to bomb it so the jews their would flee. Now it's the entire population of France that is the threat to french jews to instill fear in those jews so that they leave to israel. Yeah, it's the Zionists that have been attacking Synagogues in France.  Had the Iraqis sufficiently appreciated their Jewish community they would have encouraged them to stay; had they actually cared about the Palestinian refugees, they definitely wouldn't have required the former to renounce their Iraqi citizenship in order to leave, as that made it more likely that they would settle in the latter's cleansed households and land on a permanent basis. I met several elderly Iraqi Jews who harkened back to a better time in Baghdad, but also ones who were very jaded with a society that so easily dispensed with them for the acts of provocateurs.
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Jul 30, 2014 18:53
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Trotski Icepick posted:[quote] Guardian posted:Antonio Manuel Rodríguez Ramos suggested another reason. The hundreds of thousands of Muslims who left in the early 1600s couldn't possibly have been the only Muslim descendants in the country, he insisted. "The majority of these people didn't leave when they were expelled," he argued. "They stayed and they created a culture that can be described as most authentic and most Hispanic." That's a strange argument. The Muslim invasion only happened in the 8th Century, and Muslims were expelled/converted by the 13th Century. So most of the people with "Muslim heritage" were likely converts from Christianity, rather than exemplars of some "Ur-Muslim" descent.
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Jul 30, 2014 22:10
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illrepute posted:I go with ISIS or their arabic acronym, "da3sh" ("Dah-Esh"), which is apparently pejorative (good). Calling them "The Islamic State" is like the Third Reich calling itself the Party People Republic. Any sources on it being pejorative? Da3sh is just the acronym of Dawlat al-Islamia fi Iraq wa-a(l)-Shams = ISIS/ISIL, isn't it?
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Jul 31, 2014 21:18
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Xoidanor posted:Calling for public funding invites corruption and favors which don't really promote the stability needed to actually utilize the canal. That's assuming it ever gets made even if they get the funding. Welcome to the Republican party. 
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Aug 5, 2014 17:42
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murphyslaw posted:There is no way in hell that they would be so dumb as to actually believe it to be feasible to dig a canal parallel to the Suez in one year using donated funds only. This has to be a really hilarious get-rich-quick scheme thought up by one of their ministers and now they're actually going through with it. It is ballsy and funny as all hell. Oh, wait, no, they put journalists in jail there for "criminally reporting bad things", never mind. Carry on! 
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Aug 5, 2014 20:03
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A bit of comic relief is in order. A friend on Facebook was talking about how they're only now hearing about ISIS. Someone slowly shat out the following assessment, over several comments: "oh, a bunch of Arabs with Kalashnikovs, boohoo. They may be scary to a bunch of lame armies, not a modern one. I'm not afraid of some medieval barbarians with Kalashnikovs, a little girl flying a drone could wipe them all out."
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Aug 6, 2014 01:52
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Kilometers Davis posted:I get why this is stupid and all but it's not THAT wrong. If the U.S. wanted to we could wipe out their entire existence in no time at all. Certainly a silly point to make considering what they've already done though. Except that they are descendents of organizations that the US failed to destroy when it was occupying Iraq. Not to mention that Taliban in Pakistan's tribal areas and Al Qaeda in Yemen are still alive and well under US drone strikes, and they've not made half as many gains.
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Aug 6, 2014 04:13
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Cippalippus posted:That would be funny if it hadn't been the actual american policy regarding the middle east in the last 40 years.
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Aug 6, 2014 22:14
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Yeah, the US lost so much credibility in the region that most initiatives it runs will cause more harm than help. As for sending Israel to do things... Really? All ISIS needs is Israel attacking it to raise its recruitment rates by an order of magnitude, and make it easier for them to destabilize any region with a large Palestinian contingent (I'm looking at you, Jordan!). Then again, maybe that's something Israel would do because at this point they don't seem to know how are geoppolitic formed.
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Aug 7, 2014 00:58
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Martin Random posted:And ISIS might not just expand in a geographically contiguous fashion. Keep your eyes on the internal struggles within Egypt, Libya, and Tunisia.
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Aug 7, 2014 03:59
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Xoidanor posted:Lebanon, they've got quite the bone to pick with Hezbollah and that would potentially give them access to the mediterranean sea. Syria has its own access to the Med. They just need to take Homs and/or Latakia.
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Aug 7, 2014 07:04
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Gen. Ripper posted:"Tankie" comes from when shithead British communists supported the crushing of the Hungarian revolution in 1956 by tanks (hence, the name). It mainly refers to kneejerk "AMERICA BAD" shitheads nowadays.  Gail Wynand posted:That's why it's likely this latest "advance" by ISIS into Mosul is the result of a strategic retreat by the peshmerga. They can sit back and let the US bomb ISIS with no risk of friendly fire!  What if the US bombs the dam by mistake?
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Aug 8, 2014 06:26
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computer parts posted:Which is harder for you to swallow: having blood on your hands 'cuz the genocide you knew would happen actually happened, or losing an argument on the internet? Much like the burden of proof falls on the person proposing something new, so does it fall on the person calling for intervention. You are the one who needs to explain why the non-intervention default will lead to genocide, and then why an intervention would prevent it without causing the potential for something worse. Recall that this genocide is coming as a consequence of a previous American intervention to, let's pretend bring democracy to Iraq, a country tortured by a savage despot.
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Aug 8, 2014 07:10
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