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The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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lord funk posted:

Can anyone recommend a wired keyboard that's similar to the now-discontinued Apple Pro Keyboard?

I don't get it. Hey yeah let's make the keyboard for a desktop machine that will always be sitting in front of it require a battery and charging.

Is it really that awful to have to plug your keyboard in overnight once a month? And if so, is it so hard to just leave the thing permanently plugged in?

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The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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As I understand it the top GPU in the new iMac is basically a slightly underclocked RX580, which... actually seems reasonable? I mean you could run just about any game on ultra with an RX580, if you set the resolution to 1080p. Many games probably even 1440p. I mean let's face it even if apple had stuck a 1080ti in there you weren't going to be playing games at 5k. I've been keen to switch to a Mac for a long time, and this is the first time it's ever seemed like it could be a reasonable option that would still allow me to play video games (even if I needed to play some of them in windows).

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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SourKraut posted:

You would still be dealing with outdated OpenGL or infant Metal support amongst games. Desktop GPUs have been supported in OS X for years in classic Mac Pros courtesy of nVidia's unofficial support and performance is still mediocre at best.

I'm happy to boot into windows when needed to play a game. I don't have the space for a seperate PC.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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I'd like to know more about how graphics card drivers work on Macs, both Nvidia and Amd; both when in MacOS and when using bootcamp. It looks as though gigabyte's new external GPU enclosure (which comes with a gtx1070) will work with any thunderbolt 3 computer - that would solve the issue of weak GPU's perfectly well. I've been doing some cursory research on the subject, and from what I can tell, up till now, an external GPU like this would work fine in windows, but not in MacOS. I'd be fine with using bootcamp on the occasions where I want to play a demanding game. I'm also reading that the upcoming version of MacOS will add support for external GPUs - Does anyone know if this support will be limited to specific apple made enclosures. If I knew I could put an Nvidia GPU in an external enclosure, and have it work with an iMac I'd make the switch in a heartbeat, even if it only worked when I was booted into windows.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Theophany posted:

It has been possible to get eGPUs working on MacOS, but it's hacky as hell and likely not worth the bother. My understanding is that support in High Sierra is there for any eGPU enclosure using a compatible Thunderbolt 3 chipset and given that Apple are currently offering a Sonnet eGPU and Radeon card to developers for $599, it would suggest that Apple have no interest in building their own enclosures. Even though the eGPUs will work in MacOS, uptake of Metal has been pretty slow in what few MacOS games are out there and I wouldn't hold my breath on Metal 2 gaining ubiquity, well, ever. It would be nice to see Vulkan make an appearance in High Sierra because Apple seem to be making a push towards VR on the Mac (along with that $599 eGPU bundle, Apple are also offering developers discounted HTC Vives), but I just don't see why any developers beyond porting houses would bother to give more than a cursory gently caress about a graphics API that is limited to one OS and isn't called DirectX.

But as it stands though, you could boot into windows using bootcamp, plug in an eGPU with an nvidia card, install the nvidia drivers as you would on a PC and game using the eGPU powering the iMac screen?

Honestly that would be fine for my needs when required. Most of my gaming over the past couple of years has been graphically trivial indie stuff, or 2d stuff like pillars of eternity. The most demanding things I've played in the past year are civ vi and xcom. As long as it works correctly I'd be fine with switching to windows and plugging in an eGPU for the occasions when I want to play something that doesn't have a Mac port or is too graphically demanding. It seems like there are very few AAA games worth playing these days.

It also means I can get a new GPU now, and transfer it over to an external enclosure in a year or so when I make the big switch

The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jun 22, 2017

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Pastamania posted:

I've got a 980 sitting in a Akito Node on a non-touchbar 13' mbp, and getting it working in Windows turned out to be a way bigger ballache than getting it going in Sierra. There's scripts out there that'll handle all the setup in MacOS, including downloading drivers. Although you have to disable SIP, with all the additional risk that entails, and Sierra really doesn't like hot swapping the cable. You need to reboot every time you plug in/disconnect. Still, I had it running from start to finish in 20 minutes, and that included trying to navigate the mess that's egpu.io to find the right guides. Windows, meanwhile, took a couple of days for me to figure out.

My understanding is, if you have a normal dedicated GPU in your machine, the bios turns off the integrated GPU when you bootcamp into Windows. That's why battery life in Windows on a 15' MBP goes through the floor. Problem is, the bios does this at the moment with eGPU's as well, and Windows needs the iGPU to be awake for an eGPU to work, so the whole thing just falls over. Windows either doesn't boot, or the drivers don't initialise if you plugin after startup. I have a boot USB stick I have to start from that forces the iGPU to stay awake, and everything boots smoothly, but it's a pain in the arse (especially on a machine that only has two ports to begin with). Hopefully, the High Sierra support will cover Bootcamp as well, but I wouldn't put money on it.

Janky setup aside (and if your on an iMac with it's reasonable number of ports, I guess just leaving a stick in is an option?), it's pretty impressive when it's working. I haven't found anything yet that this machine, despite it being essentially a glorified MacBook Air, isn't handling game wise, and it's remarkable how little the CPU get's hit by most stuff when it's not doing the graphics. I had a good 3 hours in Overwatch the other day without power plugged in, and I think I lost about the same amount of charge as if I'd been using Word. I've even had a Vive running off it without a hitch, and it's not like the 980 is much beyond the bare minimum spec for that even if it was in a PCI slot in a tower. I think the whole backlash against these machines at release would have been greatly mitigated if eGPU support was announced sooner, this is a game changer in what the machine can do for a lot of use cases.

Thanks, this was informative. From what I've read windows 10 should be able to handle hot swapping of external GPUs. Have you tried only plugging the eGPU in after you've booted into windows?

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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How adequate are the built in speakers on a 27" iMac? Are they at least as good as what you'd get built into a quality tv?

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Mandibular Fiasco posted:

I bought a 27" Retina iMac and I'm thrilled with it. The sound is surprisingly good considering the size of the speakers. I originally wanted a MacBook Pro, but quickly realized that I could buy a really good case for the iMac (yes, you can get these) for the few times I needed to write remotely. Having a full size screen to write and have all my stuff open is fantastic. My comparison, my old 2008 vintage LED Cinema Display looks ridiculously low resolution after working on a Retina 5K.

Anyway, the speakers sound great. Go buy an iMac. You'll love it.

I probably won't be buying anything till this time next year. I had this thought of just using an Imac and a nice pair of headphones, and ditching the big bookshelf speakers and associated paraphernalia I've been using up till now. It would be lovely to have a nice clean uncluttered desk (that I can actually dust without having to move poo poo around, and ditching the rat warren of cabling behind my desk.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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The headphone jack on Macs is also a optical spdif port, so you can connect to an external Dac that way.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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eames posted:

used to be that way. I don't know when they changed it but the new MBPs are analog only. :(

Oh for gently caress's sake.

I guess you can still use a USB DAC, which is perfectly fine if you aren't a sperglord.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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People are stupid when it comes to how much ram they think they need. Ram requirements for typical home user stuff has been stagnant for years, as have operating system ram requirements - in windows world you actually need less ram to get an optimal OS experience now than you did back when vista was around. From everything I've read MacOS is more ram efficient than windows is.

Even people building high end gaming PCs (the ones who know what they're talking about at least) have struggled to justify more than 8gb up until very recently (and it's still rare to find a game that can make meaningful use of more than that).

Web browsing, email, dealing with your photos (not commercial grade photo editing) watching Netflix, working with office documents... none of those things require more than 8gb of Ram now, nor will they magically start using a heap of extra ram in the next few years. That accounts for the majority of use cases, especially for people using a laptop. If this is you, by all means just buy a MacBook Pro with 8gb of ram.

People need 16gb or more of Ram when they start doing serious video editing, working with virtual machines, or using other specific, Ram intensive applications.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Try living in Australia. I get 30 down and 1 up. The fastest tier I can get (in my inner city, fibre to the home networked area) is 100 down and 5 up.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Boiled Water posted:

Even at the price of "free" numbers is a terrible prospective. I dunno where libreoffice sits in this, better or worse.

Libreoffice is more or less on par with MS Office. Functionality wise, the spreadsheet probably falls just short of excel, and the word processor is arguably better than word. The interface is stuck in 2001 though (which is part of the appeal for some users I guess). That part is changing though, the latest version under development is finally overhauling it.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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What do you think the chances are that there would be a coffee lake imac refresh next year? A 6 core i5 would be pretty neat; I'd hate to buy an Imac now only for a leap forward like that to be just around the corner.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Boiled Water posted:

What do you work with? May not be that big a leap.

Light VM stuff. Having 2-3 VMs running to practise networking/sysadmin stuff. And I thought about teaching myself to code using swift. Other than that just home user stuff and videogames.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Small White Dragon posted:

Comparing the 2017 MacBook to the 2015 and 2016, it looks like the same design - are the 2016 and 2017 models just spec bumps (newer CPU, .etc)?

I'm pretty sure they tweaked the keyboard as well. For what it's worth the reviews on both the 2016 and 2017 macbook have commented that the spec bump on the cpu is a pretty substantial one. The original CPUs on the 2015 model were really anaemic. I wouldn't be buying a new macbook if you already have one but if the purpose of your post was to contemplate whether to buy a previous gen model to save money I definitely wouldn't.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Whether you choose to do it yourself or buy the upgrade from apple, I wouldn't suggest anyone buy a computer without an SSD in 2017, it's the most substantial all round noticeable upgrade you can make. It's worth pointing out that the SSDs apple uses are the very best, many cheaper SSDs are poo poo and you have to do your research.

The RAM you can upgrade yourself very easily and cheaply if you want to, but most people don't need more than 8gb of RAM, unless they're video editing, or doing serious intensive work on the computer - If you're just going to be surfing the web and watching netflix and doing office stuff it's a waste of money. Same goes for the i7.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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rdb posted:

Apples SSD pricing is absolutely insane. $1400 to upgrade from a 2TB fusion to a 2TB SSD. Equivalent to the cost of a second imac or mbp, its a real tough pill to swallow.

My other big gripe is the slow rear end shipping. I don't understand why its taking 10 days to get from sunnyvale to me. Which makes me want to keep it when it does get here because I don't want to wait another 10-15 days.

Look up what a high end NVMe ssd costs.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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AlternateAccount posted:

Yeah I tried to be as polite as possible and sound the least like I was fishing for a denial. Like any even remotely legitimate reason is fine for me.

When I first started I was issued a 15” Lenovo with a 1366x768 display. Let me tell you about vision problems. Turns out a dummy in purchasing tried to shave a few bucks and screens were supposed to be 1080. So every time I see a user with one of those machines it’s an instant swap to a new one, regardless of life cycle. See? I am not a monster.

I bought one of those 15" 768p lenovos in 2011 for school, because I had a strict budget and needed something with the grunt to run several VMs at once, so I sacrificed on screen quality which was very expensive at the time. Then I finished my course and I sold it to my dad, and he's still using the fucker. It makes me cringe every time I have to give him IT support. I keep encouraging him to replace it but he's one of those 'keep using it till it dies' folk. He just makes himself breakfast while he waits for it to boot of a morning.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Mad_Hatter posted:

I've been looking at upgrading my old MBA to the new 13" MBP with touchbar. I don't imminently need to do it, but is there any particular reason that I would want to wait for the next refresh?

The next generation of intel CPUs will have 6 cores in mainstream i5s for the first time ever, and quad core i3s. You can't be certain, but I'd say that would mean the next 13" MacBook Pro may well have a quad core CPU for the first time, and the 15" would have a 6 core for the first time. We would also probably see the MBPs finally move to DDR4 ram. Depending on your workload it would be the most significant CPU upgrade in a while.

On the other hand the current generation of MBPs is only a month old so you'll be waiting a long time for a refresh.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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The fundamental problem I see with the MacBook is that it costs the same amount (at least in Australia) as a non TB MacBook Pro. I just can't imagine how anyone can justify trading away that much performance for a slightly thinner and lighter computer, when the current gen MacBook pros are already freakishly thin and light compared to the plastic bricks We were all lugging around a few years ago.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Social Animal posted:

Also isn't there some difference between the CPU? Like lower voltage on the non-touchbar? Maybe someone here who knows this stuff can help because I'm in the same situation.

I just need a simple development machine. If only the Air didn't have that lame screen.

The cpu in the non touchbar macbook pro has a higher maximum boost clock than the entry level CPU in the touchbar macbook pro; but it is a lower wattage part with a much lower base clock speed and less thermal headroom. In layman's terms, the CPU in the non touchbar MBP is technically capable of going marginally faster for very brief periods of time than the one in the touchbar model, which is why you'll often see it ahead in benchmarks (which often only measure performance over a very short interval); but the lower wattage means it won't be able to sustain higher clockspeeds for nearly as long, before needing to drop back down to a much lower base clockspeed. This means that on average, the CPU in the touchbar model will; despite having a very slightly lower maximum speed; consistently outperform the one in the non touchbar model by quite a bit, particularly for anything that takes it more than a few seconds to do.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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IuniusBrutus posted:

The non-touchbar MacBook is a few hundred dollars more than a competitively spec'd XPS13, not thousands at least...used is a different story, of course. I did leave out that I attach some value to macOS, that wonderful, wonderful 16:10 aspect ratio, and a reasonable and easily used extended warranty that includes accidental damage. The latter I don't care about so much if I can repair it myself, but that is not really an option so...

Though an XPS15 is an EXTREMELY compelling buy, I forgot how affordable they are, and they offer two RAM slots and non-soldered SSDs, it is just a bit bigger than I would like.

In Australia, the cheaper model XPS13s only have 1080p screens. If you want the high end screen it will cost you a couple hundred more than a touchbar macbook pro, let alone the non touchbar ones.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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MeruFM posted:

unleash the 40 hour macbook pro 16 tim

i'm somewhat worried they're not gonna beef up the GPU enough because those things kind of scale up with cores + power and I haven't seen any serious comparisons of the M1 gpu cores with amd/nvidia

I’ve seen a few gaming benchmarks done by various reviewers that have the M1 gpu performing better than an Nvidia 1050ti but not as well as a 1060. Which is hugely impressive for an integrated gpu.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Now all we need is for AAA game devs to actually take macOS seriously as a platform and port things. I’d give my left nut to be able to ditch my gaming pc and just use a Mac.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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I’ve been using Apple Music since launch; it’s excellent.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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TACD posted:

Is it possible to download an album to your phone and explicitly tell it to stay downloaded? What immediately turned me off Apple Music during the free trial was trying to listen to albums I'd downloaded only to discover the phone had decided to erase half of the tracks while I was out somewhere with no signal.

Yes, it's always worked like that? I download every album I like and keep them permanently stored on my phone, over 70gb worth now.

The only time something might disappear from your phone is maybe occasionally if there was a rights issue - maybe a publisher decided to pull something from apple music.

I've never really used spotify - when I bought my first iphone, a 6S; I'd just come from 2 generations of windows phones and the only thing windows had really was pandora. I did research at the time and concluded apple music was better than spotify (it helped that my carrier at the time gave me a year of apple music free). I've never felt the need to switch; and I've never failed to find every bit of music I've searched for, including incredibly obscure poo poo like early 20th century greek folk music.

The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Dec 9, 2020

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Actuarial Fables posted:



:rip: MBA 2011 battery. Sorry for spilling diet Dr. Pepper on you in 2012.

e. I'm not sure if I want to put much more money into this 9 year old computer. Replacement A1406 batteries on ebay look cheap, but I have no idea if they'll immediately catch fire or not, and it's probably time for an upgrade.

Many windows users would be on their 3rd laptop by now; it's had a good life and there's no shame in replacing it.

buglord posted:

Okay cool. I’m not sure where I got that 50% number in my head. This is mostly a safari/MS Office/Discord machine (and has been for the majority of its life) so I’ll see if I can keep it going until the hypothetical M2 or even M3 Air.

It’s all speculation I know but do you guys think by that time we might get Airs that can do rocket league/valorant/fortnite at respectable image quality and performance? And maybe without a fan going brrrr


We're already there. The GPU in the M1 sits between a 1050ti and a 1060 in performance. Witcher 3 is playable via crossover.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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buglord posted:

Hot dog my dudes. Thats pretty exciting. Hope M2 brings even more to the table.

The M1 has 8 gpu cores. The leaks for an ‘M1X’ to be put into 16” macbook pros and iMacs next year reportedly has 16 and 32 core configurations.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Actuarial Fables posted:

Ask me about the surface pro 4 that I've had to replace under warranty 3 times now.

Do tell. I don’t think I’d ever buy a pc I hadn’t built myself.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Actuarial Fables posted:

First one had an immediate issue with the display glass, felt like sand was under it when trying to touch or draw. Got it replaced and picked up the extended warranty while I was at the MS store.
Second stopped detecting type covers (the keyboard) after a year. Got upgraded from 8GB to 16GB ram when doing the replacement so that was cool.
Third stopped accepting power just before the extended warranty was about to expire.
Now I'm on #4. It's now out of warranty and the type cover is growing veins, so I think once this stops working I'll stick with Windows for desktops and Macs for laptops.

You need to destroy it before it finishes growing a circulatory system and develops consciousness.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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And Microsoft edge is the new, better version of chrome.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Nitrousoxide posted:

It's just chromium with stuff in there for Microsoft to track you instead of Google.

I trust Microsoft more than I do google; the privacy settings are considerably more robust than chrome's were when I made the switch, and it has a bunch of Microsoft added stuff making it more secure and better performing than chrome.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Fleedar posted:

When the 5K iMac launched, the display alone made me switch from my PC. I remember thinking it wouldn’t be long before all desktop screens looked that good.

That was six years ago.

It's a common sentiment expressed by PC folk that iMacs are bad value and overpriced based on the specs and I always make the point to them that they're basically getting one of the best Displays on the market with a very cheap pc strapped to the back of it. In the consumer space there's flat out nothing as good. The LG display is the closest thing. A base spec 27" iMac costs AUD $2799. A 27" LG Ultrafine costs AUD $1889.95. AUD $900 for a pretty decent midrange PC with a top tier SSD is pretty good if you ask me.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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I feel like if you’re gaming or doing high performance professional workloads you get a pro and everyone else just gets an air unless they really really want a touchbar.

How well is crossover working to get windows only games working on Mac?

I feel like the 2 barriers to games getting ported to Macs have always been 1. Insufficient market share to justify it and 2. Most Macs didn’t have the hardware grunt to run AAA properly anyway.

I suspect Mac market share is going to increase a lot now that they completely crush intel and amd on performance and battery life.

New popular engines like unity are reducing the work needed to port as well; essentially hitting problem 1 From both ends.

And the soaring gpu performance is tackling problem 2.

I don’t expect a huge overnight shift but I do think we’ll slowly see an increase in games being ported.

The rise of crowdfunded indie games also helps - things like pillars of eternity specifically got Mac and Linux ports due to fan engagement demonstrating that there was demand.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Apple needs to hurry the gently caress up and invent a wireless monitor if you ask me.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Shaocaholica posted:

Wait do they actually use metric screen dimensions in the EU? Like instead of a MBP16 it’s a MBP40?

There are two things that are still always measured in inches in metric countries. One of them is screen sizes.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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I wonder if new iMacs will have Face ID? It wouldn’t be a bad idea.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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Shaocaholica posted:

FaceID blows right now tho. Does it learn masks? What about different masks? What about combos of different masks and glasses? Yeah...no

Presumably you aren’t wearing a mask when sitting in front of your iMac at home.

Touch ID sucked; it would fail to recognise my finger half the time.

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The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

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You can finally get an iMac that blends in perfectly to that retro 1950s style kitchen I've always dreamed about.

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