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Cavelcade posted:I think it's more interesting that this goon from Gaia was a bad enough dude to mentally overwhelm a space monster and take control of their Cronenberged form towards his own ends - becoming a God rather than just eating more planets, just based on the original game. The problem with this reading is that Sephiroth never had megalomaniacal inclinations during the time we see of him before he encountered Jenova. Even though he was Shinra's best SOLDIER he didn't seem to be in it for glory or fame. Even taking spinoffs into account, he's a super chill dude who genuinely cares for Genesis, Angeal and eventually Zack in Crisis Core. At least pre-Nibelheim.
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Oct 27, 2016 12:50
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Terper posted:It doesn't matter because he's not as strong as Caius That's true. I bet even World of Final Fantasy and Final Fantasy XV's villains combined couldn't beat Caius. He has the strongest power level and only when Lightning-sama went SSJ4 did he get into a stalemate.
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Oct 27, 2016 12:56
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Cleretic posted:I was, for most of my first run of FFVII earlier this year, getting the idea that present-day Sephiroth barely existed 'as' Sephiroth. The real one got hilariously killed by Cloud in the Nibelheim reactor and that was the end of it, the one you're spending most of the game fighting is basically just an approximation built from people's memories of some basass named Sephiroth acting as a face and hands for the otherwise kinda helpless Jenova--basically, what Sephiroth claimed Cloud to be. I don't care that the expanded universe probably retconned it, it makes sense to me, and I do like how much of all that is vague enough to let you figure some of it out like that. He's the real Cloud but his memories were all kinds of hosed thanks to Hojo in the aftermath of the Nibelheim incident. The Jenova cells in his body stitched them together imperfectly, where he thinks he was Zack instead of a faceless Shinra grunt and this was made easier for Jenova's cells as he couldn't bear facing Tifa having failed to make it in SOLDIER.
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Oct 27, 2016 13:20
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FFVII is a story where the hero (Zack) and heroine (Aeris) died and it's up to the sidekick, who is a crazy guy deluding himself and others about his past and a ragtag bunch of misfits with plenty of metal health issues themselves to save the world.
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Oct 27, 2016 13:27
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bloodychill posted:I think this is an extremely lovely way to look at it because it implies that a rag tag bunch of people with mental problems can't be the heroes. Which they are. I wasn't implying they couldn't be? There are a lot of fictional heroes who have severe mental health issues out there. But at the same time, Cloud's group are really ineffectual and are most certainly not heroes until Cloud and Tifa have their revelations in the Lifestream and finally become comfortable with who they really are with Tifa being less codependent with Cloud and Cloud finally stepping out of Zack's shadow and it's only really then that they start having their poo poo together and actually start being heroes. Despite how awful ShinRa are, the protagonists are terrorists and have committed major acts of terrorism and killed many innocent people as a result of that, even if it was for the so-called greater good which is doubtful since even Barrett admitted later on in the game that destroying the reactors didn't really help much with anything in the long-term and was just an excuse to vent his anger towards ShinRa and also himself over his failure with Dyne and his village, he was lashing out. That isn't healthy. And it sure as hell isn't heroic either.
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Oct 28, 2016 06:50
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Goddammit spotlessd's stupidity is hurting my brain and I just played a few hours of Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 which is plenty stupid enough. I'm fairly sure he's just a lovely troll though, given that all of his complaints about what he's seen of Final Fantasy XV can apply to virtually every previous game in the series besides XIII.
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Oct 30, 2016 00:39
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Nina posted:I figured I might as well wait for the remake. It's the only one of the games I've been 100% spoiled on anyways Yeah, you might have been spoiled on the broad story but people misremember poo poo about FF7 all of the time, to the point that even they are surprised when they revisit the game. So you'd probably be as well playing it since chances are that whoever spoiled it for you was wrong.
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Nov 22, 2016 18:34
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:For once, I agree with NikkolasKing on a FF related thing: I liked IX a lot more as a kid, but as an adult going back I really appreciate how pioneering VII was in its storytelling and what it was trying to do, even if the translation kind of hosed up a lot of it. I still love IX, of course, but I definitely don't think VII is overrated; I just think it's extremely weird how there's this collective vision of what VII and its characters were like that isn't how most of them actually are. It's especially ironic considering what the actual deal with Cloud is. Like him, everyone has twisted memories of Final Fantasy VII including myself until I replayed it about 5 years ago. In a weird kind of way, Final Fantasy VII has become the most meta of the games in the series.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:05
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:Not like twisted memories of games is limited to FFVII. For example: He's right though. People seem to dismiss Cloud as an "emo git", yet that's Squall, the guy who freaks out about being talked about in the past tense, throws a tantrum and spends most of the game wanting to brood alone because of something that happened in his past that he can't even remember happening whilst he constantly monologues about how nobody understands him. That's not Cloud, in fact Cloud only acts cold and "tough" in the Midgar section of the game. Aerith knows that this is a front which is why she teases him and the cracks begin to appear in his persona. The real Cloud is a total dork who is insecure about his own accomplishments and really just wants to impress other people.
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Nov 22, 2016 22:25
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I can't believe I never made the connection between Necron in IX and Cloud of Darkness in III before. They're basically the same being, manipulating someone whose despair of being mortal is driving them to destroy the crystal(s) which controll all life (Xande/Kuja) so they can return everything to the void.ImpAtom posted:Squall is actively obnoxious and horrible at first. He's a dick to other people and has a lot of internal dialogue which makes him look kinda lovely. It is just that he grows away from that. He does, but I don't believe it's handled very well and his arc seems sudden. I kind of wonder how much of this is due to the translation though, I heard that Squall's personality quirks are much different in Japanese where he's the shy and quiet guy who keeps trying to deflect any responsibility given to him and he's overly apologetic but without really being sincere about it as opposed to the translation which makes him appear much more standoffish, aggressive and more of a little poo poo in general. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 23:31
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Tae posted:I would've thought about Squall much differently if they did replace every ....Whatever with ....Sorry. I agree. I think I would have liked Squall's Japanese portrayal much more, where he's a shy, somewhat dismissive guy who hates having responsibility thrust upon him and is never really open with how he truly feels and just says what he thinks others want to hear, defaulting to being insincerely apologetic when that isn't good enough and only snaps when the pressure gets to him too much because of abandonment issues, compared to his portrayal in the translation where he comes off as arrogant, standoffish, overly aggressive and brooding rear end in a top hat. He's still a self-centered idiot in his original portrayal but he'd also be much easier to connect with and sympathize with. Part of the reason Squall's intimacy and abandonment issues fall so completely flat for me is because he's been a total cock to everyone since the beginning of the game that it's hard to muster any sympathy for him whatsoever as he squandered it. NikkolasKing posted:FFVII's translation is coherent. You can come away with a complete grasp of the plot and characters from it. I really wouldn't say so. So many people have false memories about what happened because the translation is such an incoherent trainwreck. Hell, I only realized what was really going on in the game when I replayed it as an adult and at which point I learned to read between the lines and spot what was actually being conveyed in the game. For the longest time I thought Cloud was some kind of clone made from a Sephiroth/Zack hybrid who just had the memories of the original Cloud because the game kept throwing around terms like "clones" and Cloud being a "puppet" and going into the game knowing that the word "clone" is the worst possible loving choice they could have used when "copy" would have worked better (as in, copies of the original experiment Hojo did with Sephiroth) and I believe they use that word instead in Crisis Core. Both VII and VIII desperately need a retranslation. Translations for Squaresoft games in the early to mid-PS1 years were pretty awful since they didn't use Woolsey and the pressure put upon the translator for Xenogears was so bad that it led to Squaresoft completely overhauling how their localization process works which is why Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy 9 and Vagrant Story to name a few had much stronger localizations than earlier Squaresoft PS1 titles.
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Nov 23, 2016 08:13
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Tae posted:I thought someone said the ps4 version has a new translation? It's the PC translation I believe, which fixes a few things like "this guy are sick" but is still riddled with errors. And yeah, Kefka's personality in Japanese is more of a goofy idiot prankster. He still has a lot of that in the translation, he's just got a more sadistic and calculating edge to him. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Nov 23, 2016 |
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Nov 23, 2016 08:22
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The Turks are evil the same way a contract killer is. They don't take joy in their job, they just do it for the money and because they're good at it. To use D&D alignments, they'd be Lawful Evil compared to a lot of Shinra executives who despite being part of a megacorporation are only in it for themselves and will backstab each other to get even a little gain and come off more as Neutral or even Chaotic Evil.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:09
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Electric Phantasm posted:You know who else killed a bunch of people? Vegeta and I think we all know what we think of him. Yeah but the innocents Vegeta killed were brought back by the Dragon Balls. Probably.
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Nov 23, 2016 19:46
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Geez, I never realized just how dark Final Fantasy IX actually was before. It's actually a fairly depressing game despite the cheery and bright visuals, full of genocide, war, suffering and existential angst. It's not like VII where I misremembered what happened in the game so much as the themes of IX resonated with me more that I'm older and have experienced the loss of loved ones before. When I first played it, I never really thought about death much. I was kind of arrogant to think that things would be fine and that death is rare.
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Nov 23, 2016 21:10
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ImpAtom posted:The plot of Final Fanasy IX is basically "you are going to die someday. Maybe later, maybe soon, but you, personally, are going to die. How are you going to deal with that?" With Vivi being the guy who deals with it shockingly well and Kuja being the guy who goes "No, gently caress ALL OF YOU!" Yeah. It's a plot I understood at the time but didn't appreciate until the past few years. General Morden posted:the plot of final fantasy 9 is a rip off of dragon ball actually I'd argue it has more in common with Blade Runner of all things, especially given that the main villains are artificial beings desperately seeking for their life to be extended and trying to find a purpose to justify their own existence. Even the ending where Kuja finally saves the party from Necron and the collapsing Iifa Tree isn't too dissimilar from Roy Batty saving Deckard at the end of Blade Runner, having a moment of realization right before they both die. Though, yes, on a surface level it does resemble Dragon Ball.
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Nov 23, 2016 21:31
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zedprime posted:Its even cooler than that, there's a lot of focus on the second half of the existential equation of giving the life you have meaning. Early in the game, Zidane is doling out nonstop life advice to Dagger and Vivi until his existential break and ironically Dagger and Vivi come to his rescue by giving him substantial reasons to exist instead of cheap thrills with cheap women. I think the quote that sticks out to me the most was from one of the Black Mages conversing with one of the Genomes about cemeteries. Black Mage posted:...You're right, but I don't think we build cemeteries for the dead. Sure, it may seem pointless to you, but... How can I describe it? It's so that we can think like this: 'We'll never forget you. We'll remember you every time we stand at your grave. And we won't let the fear of death, which each of us knows, stop us from living our lives. ...Because my friends will remember me when I'm here.' I didn't think much of it at the time but it really resonates with me now.
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Nov 23, 2016 22:45
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Mordiceius posted:Source your quotes. I'll tell you right now that this was from NeoGAF. People there have been declaring the game a failure though ever since ~Nomura's vision~ was scrapped and been dogpiling on any excuse to hate it, including poor LOD in the background when exploring for a console game and somehow that makes the game irredeemable garbage. The spoiler leaks just emboldened them. I mean, the game could still suck but it won't suck for the reasons they say it would suck for. Somehow I'm not surprised that Gologle posts on NeoGAF though.
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Nov 24, 2016 07:23
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bloodychill posted:Hah! My impression was that Nomura burned out, it wasn't like they stole the project away and told him to go get hosed. How different is the final product from the original vision anyway? My only exposure to Versus13 was one preview and the combat preview that was apparently mocked up ala FF13's combat reveal. Versus 13 didn't have a vision. That's the thing. Even right before it was scrapped in favor of 15, they only had a few plot elements and some CGI of the characters and the city of Insomnia. Even the gameplay was still fake. There was at one point where, I poo poo you not, Nomura wanted to scrap everything and make Versus 13 a musical after he saw Les Misérables and he had to be vetoed on that decision. Right now, he's probably making Kingdom Hearts 3 the entirety of the Atlantica section of Kingdom Hearts 2 and making Final Fantasy 7 remake the game that everyone has fake memories of playing rather than the game they actually played.
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Nov 24, 2016 08:11
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Motto posted:You will regret your words and deeds when you see HD Cloud riding a dolphin. I hope the remake is a 1:1 remake with the plot with all of the goofy stuff there, just with updated graphics. People will poo poo on it though because it doesn't fit with their memories of the game when it was there all along.
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Nov 24, 2016 08:29
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Final Fantasy 1 is the worst game actually. Garland's motives don't even make any sense what the gently caress immersion ruined.
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Nov 29, 2016 20:28
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It's actually the worst cause it's the most boring D&D campaign made. Still amazed Gygax didn't sue Squaresoft considering how much is lifted from D&D. Although what campaign did you play where the villain concocted a plan where he is immortal through timeloop fuckery and pretending to be killed by the heroes right at the start of the adventure?
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Nov 29, 2016 23:45
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I, II and Tactics need to come to Steam. I imagine XII: Zodiac Age will come as well. XV is something they do want to bring to PC but apparently it'll be more a directors cut than anything, featuring stuff that was cut because consoles couldn't handle it.
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Dec 1, 2016 21:01
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Die Sexmonster! posted:Oh man that sounds straight outta Star Ocean 2, haha. Same composer. Sakuraba's soundtracks all sound the same to me, outside of stuff like Valkyrie Profile. I've never quite understood why he gets so much praise.
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Dec 2, 2016 21:55
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Final Fantasy 1 had a twist I didn't see coming. The random knight guy you killed at the start of the game and had completely forgotten about hours later is actually the main villain and you didn't kill him, he time travelled to the past and became a demon! What was the twist of 2? That the main villain, David Bowie, had taken over Hell and became the new Satan after you killed him? And 3's twist was that Xande was Kuja and Cloud of Darkness was Necron.
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Dec 3, 2016 12:22
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Tifa is unhealthily codependent and is just as broken a person as Cloud is, but in a different way. She's enabling Cloud's delusions the entire time because she's afraid of losing the one connection to her childhood and past that she has. She's not really a "strong" character per se, but her flaws aren't depicted as being good things either and she does grow stronger as a character later on in the game. FF7 is a game where most of the cast are completely broken people trying to do what they think is right and only being able to do any serious help for the planet once they've helped themselves with their issues.
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Dec 6, 2016 16:26
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Final Fantasy XV-2, starring Iris, Cindy and a new character. They're J-Pop idols trying to search for lost treasure and defeat daemons and bring hope to the world in the aftermath of XV.
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Dec 6, 2016 19:56
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Brother Entropy posted:ffxv also reminds me of dark souls 2 in that people are already trying desperately to spin some behind-the-scenes stuff into the reason it's actually the terrible worst most disappointing game ever To be honest, even if FF XV was released with absolutely nothing cut and was a whole, coherent experience, people would still bitch about it because they've got it in their heads that the game has been in development for 10 years and as such have put the game on such a high level of standards that would be completely impossible to reach. Then you've got the crowd who were ready to hate the game because they're huge fans of Nomura and felt he got slighted even though he was by all accounts a loving disaster who'd regularly turn up to work drunk and randomly wanted to turn Versus XIII into a musical. These people willfully ignore that XV was only really in development for 3 years at best and very little of Versus XIII even remains in the game. Very little of the initial reveal trailer for XV was in the game either. The game was a huge money pit that Sqaure-Enix wanted to make at least some money back on that frankly, it's a miracle the game turned out as good as it did despite the huge flaws.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:38
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Endorph posted:Yeah, but Squeenix's dire financial straits aren't because their games don't do well - they do - it's because they have the worst development processes in the world and refuse to accept that it isn't the 90s anymore. Game development costs have gone drastically up in the past 20 years and Square Enix is still acting like any amount of sales can make enough money to justify their absurd production values, or that anyone actually cares about CG cutscenes in 2016. Another part of the problem is that each Final Fantasy game has to play differently from previous games if they aren't numbered sequels. It isn't like Dragon Quest which mostly sticks to a formula that works and iterates on it, Square-Enix feel the need to reinvent the wheel with each game, typically using a new engine, battle system, assets and overall completely different game design philosophy with each game. On the other hand, Square-Enix's competitors for JRPGs tend to reuse a lot of assets and coding from game to game. Persona 5 took a long time to come out because they had to make everything from scratch but you bet that future Megaten games will be reusing assets from Persona 5. They got good mileage out of Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne's assets after all. It does seem kind of a waste that XV isn't getting any planned sequels, because unlike XIII and its sequels, people do generally seem to want a sequel which builds and fixes the issues of XV. I think the Luminous Engine is being used solely for XV and nothing else, whilst VII remake and Kingdom Hearts 3 will be using Unreal 4. Considering the pressure Tabata was under to get XV out even in its current state, I can kind of understand why he doesn't feel the need to do a sequel though.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:55
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If I remember right, The Dark Id didn't even dislike Xenogears or Chrono Cross but rather point out how batshit stupid they are but still kind of enjoyed them as heavily flawed games. Goons, when it comes to LPs, are really, really really bad at picking this up though and immediately go full negativity towards games. Hell, I've seen it in LPs of what is generally considered to be good games where the LPer points out some flaws but still clearly enjoys the game yet the thread act like the game is the worst piece of poo poo to ever exist because of these flaws and nobody should check the game out for themselves. And then there's the LPs where the LPer has a negative opinion on a game that's generally considered good and thinks the game sucks and then everyone in the thread flocks to that opinion like sheep (like the Bayonetta 2 LP).
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Jan 2, 2017 01:40
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jivjov posted:So after spending like 20 minutes trying to get through a stealth challenge in that drat dungeon, I just said gently caress it and went to beat up Chaos. 1 Final Fantasy down, 14+ to go! Good luck. I tried to marathon Final Fantasy plus notable side games a few years back and I got burnt out around the time I got to Final Fantasy VIII.
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Jan 9, 2017 22:54
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NikkolasKing posted:So I didn't see any other posts on this I'd actually be okay with a Final Fantasy VIII remake. I always felt that the game had 3 or 4 different good ideas for its plot, which got smashed together and became totally incoherent. You had the horror of a world where child soldiers are necessary and they're more or less being groomed to fight other peoples wars, you have Laguna's story, you have a story about childhood friends who have largely forgotten each other and moved on, with attempts to rekindle old friendships, you have a story about an anti-social introvert who learns to come out of his shell, you have a story about a victim of persecution falling into a self-fulfilling prophecy cycle by becoming the very thing others always feared she would be. These are all actually really great ideas individually. But combined as they are, VIII just does not work at all. At least not with the screentime devoted to each plot beat. On the flip side, the only thing I'd really want from an IX remake is a faster battle system and for characters like Amarant and Freya to have more plot importance and thematic relevance to the game; since Freya in particular feels like she's missing a resolution to her arc.
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May 18, 2017 08:02
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FF XII is one of those games I hated when I first played it, but came to appreciate upon revisiting it a few times. The International version changes help too because vanilla XII is pretty unbearable. To be honest, I don't see it as a worse game than Xenoblade Chronicles and this forum circlejerked that game constantly when it first came out, praising it as the best JRPG ever when it had a lot of the same issues FF XII did.
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Jun 21, 2017 10:10
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Barudak posted:FF12 kills you during the tutorial*, so its the Demons Souls of the franchise. Only if you're not paying attention, given that there's a cutscene shortly into the game where Vaan is visiting his traumatized brother who is recovering from the events of the prologue. Final Fantasy fans seem to have a really bad attention span given their confusion and misremembering Final Fantasy VII (granted the translation doesn't help), XII and XIII.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:44
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Really? Because it feels more like they watched a LOT of anime, jumbled up FFX's assets, gave each other severe head wounds, then wrote the game. The main story of X-2 is fine and much better than X's, I'll take a story about struggling to overcome loss, finding your new identity in a radically changing society instead of what is expected of you and mistakes from the past coming back to bite in the rear end and trying not to repeat those same mistakes in the present is a lot more interesting than a story about how organized religion is evil and their God is actually the Satan destroying the world that they send gullible idiots out to die to every 10 years and oh also you're a dream and don't exist, but it's still your story imaginary dude! It's just the sidemissions in X-2 which can be dumb and full of wacky poo poo. But even that makes perfect sense in a world where for hundreds of years, people were living in fear of constant and sudden death, no technological progress was allowed ever and the major overly controlling religion turned out to be a lie and a race of people the religion said were evil were actually good and were right. People are going to live a little and go a bit overboard with the prospect of eternal peace.
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Jul 26, 2017 06:32
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a crisp refreshing Moxie posted:Yeah, wasn't Yevon deliberately designed to be impossible to lose to? Yep. I think there might be a loophole where you can get a game over if you somehow manage to petrify your entire party? Otherwise yes.
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Jan 6, 2018 23:34
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Probably want a different vision for the remake is my guess as to why they didn't want Kitase helming the project again. From what I've heard about Nomura from someone who actually worked under him, he's actually a complete disaster to work for who acts like a bit of a tyrant in his demands but doesn't actually do any work that he's supposed to do himself and it's usually up to everyone else in the team to decide on the actual direction of the games he's supposed to be the director of; yet he takes the credit as the director. I honestly don't know why Square-Enix haven't fired his rear end already unless they're keeping him around because of name recognition but I think even that is starting to wear thin.
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Jul 2, 2018 06:15
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FF XV wasn't a mediocre disappointment, more like a mediocre surprise. My expectations for it were rock bottom and I didn't expect it to turn out nearly as good as it did. It's still mediocre but it does have a few high points that hit the mark and after FF XIII, I'm not sure how anyone could say XV unfinished as it is was worse.
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Oct 2, 2018 17:33
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I wouldn't have an issue with Trance if it didn't go off pretty much at the end of battles anyway, wasting them.
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Feb 24, 2019 10:53
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