Tolkien's Middle-Earth: He was just Beorn this way

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Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Nessus posted:

Sam is certainly the real hero, but Sam also plods along looking stupid for large sections of the book (even if he also kills an orc without even a magic sword, yet), calls Frodo 'Master,' and the way in which he shrugs off the allure of the Ring has definite airs of 'Well shucky darn I know my place in the world and it sure ain't as a king.' I do think the archetype of Sam is strongly rooted in the turn of the century British/English society of Tolkien's day and was, in that context, understood and certainly lacked the coercive elements that - say - American slavery had.

But! Nonetheless, to a casual glance it's some durpy hobbit calling the upper class/upper middle class hobbit 'master' and spending most of the time doing all the poo poo-work. While I think even by the text alone it is clear that Sam is not Frodo's slave, he is certainly Frodo's servant, and is content with his role and loves his master. This is an idea that might well have very different freight in a social context where that reads 'lackey' or 'Stephen the house slave' more than 'oh he's Frodo's butler.'

For a long time I couldn't get why a tough guy like Sam fawned over Frodo and took orders from him even after they left the Shire and Sam wasn't Frodo's gardener anymore. Then I read that Tolkien made Samwise act like the batmen did in the Great War. He himself served as a communications officer and had a batman of his own like the rest of the British officers. German World War 1 veteran and author Ernst J�nger compared his batman to a medieval squire. It makes a lot more sense if you think their relationship as an officer and a soldier or as a knight and a squire.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2013 09:09

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 08:09

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Nessus posted:

Yeah, this is one of the oddities which I imagine will have to be explained in passing in future annotated editions. Don't the Gondorites (Gondorim? Gondorians?) start straight up calling Sam Frodo's squire in the denoument part of RotK?

You have quite a memory:

Lord of the Rings posted:

�Nay, cousin! they are not boys�, said Ioreth to her kinswoman from Imloth Melui, who stood beside her. �Those are Periain, out of the far country of the Halflings, where they are princes of great fame, it is said. I should know, for I had one to tend in the Houses. They are small, but they are valiant. Why, cousin, one of them went with only his esquire into the Black Country and fought with the Dark Lord all by himself, and set fire to his Tower, if you can believe it.

I hope you are using it for something more important than hobbits.

Also, I checked and the term for residents of Gondor is "Men of Gondor".
:goonsay:

Here are the rest uses of "esquire" in LotR:

Lord of the Rings posted:

One of these was Ohtar, the esquire of Isildur, who bore the shards of the sword of Elendil;

Lord of the Rings posted:

Eomer and his esquire rode back to the rear.

Merry became Theoden's esquire and there were many instances where he was described as such so I didn't quote them.

Lord of the Rings posted:

Frodo gave way; and Gandalf, as if he were their esquire, knelt and girt the sword-belts about them, and then rising he set circlets of silver upon their heads.

Lord of the Rings posted:

But when, after the Standing Silence, wine was brought there came in two esquires to serve the kings; or so they seemed to be: one was clad in the silver and sable of the Guards of Minas Tirith, and the other in white and green.

It seems that only royalty and people treated as royals had squires. Never noticed it before.

Nessus posted:

I suppose the message that comes out of all of this is that wanting or seeking out power over others, in general, is a Bad Thing; however, power over others is a thing that either is necessary or will just come about anyway. Perhaps a sort of theory that there is going to be a natural class structure but hopefully and ideally, what will happen is that the good drift into the Bag Ends and Mayorships, while the bad drift down to live in a cottage with their relatives elsewhere.

Similarly, Aragorn and Boromir are broadly similar, but Boromir has a lot of bluff, hearty and pragmatic traits which leads to him trying to mug a hobbit and paying for it by having to fight a few dozen orcs on his own. Aragorn could have done what Boromir did, and would probably have been more successful at it, too -- but he didn't, because he's not an rear end in a top hat.

I agree with the first part; lust for power is the Worst Thing and good things happen for Good People in Tolkien's world. Hmm, after I wrote that I started to think that maybe it's not lust for power but Pride? Tolkien was a devout catholic after all, and pride is the most serious of the seven deadly sins. So, people who think that they are better than their station are sinful and should be punished.

I don't agree that the Boromir was an rear end in a top hat. While I like the movies, I think that the movie Boromir may look like a "hobbit mugger", but the Boromir from the books is deeper. One of the best sections of the book is his final scene with Frodo. First he acts quite normally and tries to make Frodo relax and counsels him to trust the power of Men, then he asks to see the Ring with a strange gleam in his eyes. Frodo's heart gets cold and he repeats that the Ring should not be used. This makes Boromir start his Hitleresque monologue:

Lord of the Rings posted:

Boromir got up and walked about impatiently. �So you go on�, he cried. �Gandalf, Elrond - all these folk have taught you to say so. For themselves they may be right. These elves and half-elves and wizards, they would come to grief perhaps. Yet often I doubt if they are wise and not merely timid. But each to his own kind. True-hearted Men, they will not be corrupted. We of Minas Tirith have been staunch through long years of trial. We do not desire the power of wizard-lords, only strength to defend ourselves, strength in a just cause. And behold! in our need chance brings to light the Ring of Power. It is a gift, I say; a gift to the foes of Mordor. It is mad not to use it, to use the power of the Enemy against him. The fearless, the ruthless, these alone will achieve victory. What could not a warrior do in this hour, a great leader? What could not Aragorn do? Or if he refuses, why not Boromir? The Ring would give me power of Command. How I would drive the hosts of Mordor, and all men would flock to my banner!�

Boromir strode up and down, speaking ever more loudly: Almost he seemed to have forgotten Frodo, while his talk dwelt on walls and weapons, and the mustering of men; and he drew plans for great alliances and glorious victories to be; and he cast down Mordor, and became himself a mighty king, benevolent and wise.

After this he tries to persuade Frodo for a few times more to come to Minas Tirith, and when Frodo continues to refuse him, he tries to take the Ring. Frodo uses the Ring to disappear and Boromir goes full Adolf and starts to run around and rant and rave about cursed halflings and Sauron until he literally falls flat on his face. Only then the Ring loses its control over him and he realizes what he has done.

So he wasn't an rear end in a top hat, he just wasn't strong enough to resist the Ring. Also, the first time we see Boromir, he is described as proud.

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Feb 22, 2013

# ¿ Feb 22, 2013 14:52

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

SHISHKABOB posted:

I'm not so sure about pride being the thing that Tolkien is making out to be the "bad thing". I say this because I seem to remember a lot of situations where characters or groups of people are described to be "proud", but I never felt like it was necessarily in a bad way. Like I'm pretty sure that the Men of Gondor are in general described to be a proud people, and maybe also the Rohirrim.

I do think that when people become too sure of their ability to control the corruption of the ring then that would be an example of pride being a bad thing in the books.

That's all just from memory though and I could be misremembering the times when the words "pride" or "proud" were used, and what the contexts were.

In the Hobbit the word "pride" is used thrice in a neutral or positive manner, but it has only negative connotations in the the Lord of the Rings books. It's quite often thrown as an insult at someone. Gandalf especially is in love with the word and destroys hobbits, Stewards and Wizards with it.

The word "proud" on the other hand is used to describe both good and evil things. When it's used to describe animals or objects it's always positive. It's more interesting to check who aren't ever described as proud. Gandalf is accused of being proud by Saruman and Denethor, but he isn't ever described as being proud or looking proud. Frodo is only once described as sounding proud when he tells to Faramir about his mission. And humble Sam isn't ever proud. Neither is Gollum. These people are the ones who defeat Sauron.

And in contrast the rest of the hobbits are quite a smug bunch. There are of course the ~~Proudfoots~~ ProudFEET! And smug little Bilbo is proud of his smoke ring blowing skills (until Gandalf uses magic to bring him down). Bilbo is also proud of being a man of Letters and proud of his songs and ninja skills. Merry and Pippin are also proud quite often.

Bongo Bill posted:

Melkor's evil is probably best interpreted as being driven by pride. He coveted the Flame Imperishable, which was Iluvatar's alone and embodied the power of true creation, and he sought to dominate Arda utterly as its supreme god. The distinction between Melkor and Aule is very instructive when talking about pride in Tolkien - both imitated Iluvatar, but while Aule did so to glorify Him, Melkor only wanted to glorify himself.

That's a good example about Tolkien's view of pride. Another one is the Fall of Numenor. Tolkien has said that the most important thing in his stories is death and the how to face it. The Men of Numenor grew too proud and tried to rise against Valar to gain immortality and the Valar punished them for it. Men should have been happy with what they were given and they should have surrendered to the will of Valar.

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Feb 23, 2013

# ¿ Feb 23, 2013 02:39

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Just got Children of H�rin audiobook with Christopher Lee. Hail Satan it's good! There just couldn't be a better reader for it.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2013 13:58

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

rypakal posted:

Cirdan was on the march West, and stayed behind to search for Elwe (Thingol) while Olwe took the rest of the Teleri across the sea. We have no way of measuring relative ages before this time, but he's certainly in that batch. Thranduil also possibly could have been on that march. We know that elves dropped off constantly in the trip West, and surely the Greenwood would have drawn some of them. No reason Thranduil can't have been the leader then, but no proof of it also. Celeborn we know was in Thingol's court when Galadriel arrived there, but we don't know anything beyond that. Again, he could have been part of the group that stayed behind with Cirdan, or born later.

Ingwe, Finwe, and Elwe are indisputably the three oldest elves, and Finwe and Elwe are dead.

One nice thing about the Noldor in MIddle-earth is that since the vast majority of them come from Finwe's second marriage, it's easier to date them and know they are younger than people like Cirdan.

Some elves did drop off at the Greenwood and afterwards they were called the Sylvan elves.

Thranduil was the son of Oropher and they were both Sindar. Oropher lived in Doriath in the First Age. He became the king of the Sylvan elves of Greenwood the Great (later known as Mirkwood because of Sauron) in the Second age when some of the Sindar crossed the Misty Mountains. Oropher died in the Battle of Dagorlad in the Dead Marches in the end of the Second Age, and Thranduil became the new king.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2013 23:03

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Gianthogweed posted:

Children of Hurin is a great read. It's more fleshed out and detailed than the truncated version in the Silmarillion, and by no means "unfinished" as the version in Unfinished Tales.

Agreed. Children of Hurin audiobook is read by Christopher Lee :allears:

# ¿ Jan 13, 2014 08:01

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Ungoal posted:

Anyone else wish their was more information on Ungoliant's backstory or what eventually became of her? She was neither Maia nor Valor yet her origins remain ambiguous, similarly to Tom Bombadil. She was also one of the very few if not the only one who was capable of and actually did subdue/defeat Morgoth single handedly. Do you think if Tolkien ever did get to finish the Silmarillion he would've left her fate unknown just like Shelob's?

I think that Ungoliant was one of the nature spirit Maiar that Melkor corrupted.

Canemacar posted:

One thing I've heard multiple viewpoints on is, is middle-earth supposed to be a sort of forgotten epoch in our world and history, or its own fictional universe?

I think that Tolkien has said that it's the first one.

NikkolasKing posted:

(I really hate Feanor. I consider him just as vile as any of the Dark Lords, and without any of their initial redeeming qualities)

F�anor is Tolkien's most interesting character. And without him there wouldn't be any plot in the books. He made stuff, and more importantly, he made stuff happen. He's basically anti-Frodo.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2014 00:17

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Radio! posted:

Found a letter of Tolkien's that deals with this subject:

Unfortunately that seems to be the end of the letter, so Gandalf-as-Ring-Lord isn't expanded upon further.

Now I want to read about Ring Lord Gandalf unleashing goose-stepping Hobbits against Middle Earth.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2014 15:29

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Gianthogweed posted:

I think of it like it was an effort that took a lot out of him and it would probably be another billion years before he recovers his energy to do something that great again. Melkor, for example, will return eventually and recover his strength, but by that point the world will be over. There's no mathematical formula, it's just that doing all the stuff they did eventually drained their mental and physical energy and it will take time for them to recover. But their recovery time is so long that it might as well be eternity. Elves age the same way. Those that went to Valinor have a lot less stress and the magical protection of the valar keeps them young for much longer. But those that stayed on Middle Earth age and grow weary more quickly. Cirdan, for instance, eventually grew a gray beard he stayed on Middle Earth so long.

I always thought that Cirdan's beard symbolized his wisdom or magic or something, but he has it just because he's old. I thought that elves were immortal. But then again Cirdan is the most ancient living elf on Middle Earth.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2014 07:23

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I believe at some point Tolkien said elves were basically the equivalent of Adam before the apple.

Yeah, I remember this too.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2014 22:45

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

p. 411 Morgoth's Ring(HoME 10) posted:

It remains therefore possible there was an Elvish strain in the Orcs. These may then even have been mated with beasts (sterile!) � and later Men. Their life-span would be diminished . And dying they would go to Mandos and be held in prison until the end.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2014 14:14

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Are there more weapons with names than women?

# ¿ Mar 28, 2014 20:06

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Decent question and surprisingly difficult to answer. I think the answer is "yes" if you're just talking about on-screen characters and on-screen weapons in the primary stories but "no" if you're counting appendices, etc. Also depends on how much screen time the woman needs -- Rose Cotton, for example, only gets a few lines, I think Frodo's mother gets mentioned once or twice but is never on screen, etc. Same issue as to whether or not you count the Entwives, who actually get a few solid pages of discussion and poetry in the text and more in the appendices but are never "on screen" as it were.

The assburgers site says that 18% of Tolkien's characters were women, and that is more than I would have guessed. http://lotrproject.com/statistics/#raceandsex

Looking at the Wikipedia's weapon list, there aren't many named things. Maybe it only feels like there are more named swords than women because they get so much screentime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Middle-earth_weapons_and_armour

Ynglaur posted:

I'm not sure if this is trolling or not, but the answer is probably "yes" if you only count women with direct roles in the stories. That said, it's a question that implies a non-importance to women: a common criticism of Tolkien in some circles, and a misplaced one in my opinion. Wisest creature in Middle-Earth? Galadriel. Most valiant character in The Lord of the Rings? Eowyn (though you could make a decent case for Aragorn or Sam). Who held Melkor at bay? Hint: it wasn't Thingol. Who destroyed the Two Trees? Hint: it wasn't Melkor. Who did the Elves revere above all others (save Illuvatar)? Elbereth.

And so on.

It doesn't imply anything like that. Tolkien just liked writing more about men and swords.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2014 22:35

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Radio! posted:

Actually my biggest complaint about Tolkien's women is Luthien. She's immensely powerful, willing to make her own decisions and stand by them no matter what, and even takes back a Silmaril from Melkor almost by herself (yeah, Beren was there but he wouldn't have gotten anywhere without her). Yet despite all that what she's most remembered for is being beautiful. "You can be strong and beautiful" is a good message, but I can't help but feel that Luthien gets shorted in being primarily remembered just for being beautiful instead of a hero.

That was Tolkien complimenting his wife:

rypakal posted:

Tolkien professor completely redeem my understanding of Eowyn.

And Balrog wings...

Go on...

# ¿ Mar 29, 2014 09:04

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Tolkien was a devout Christian, and the worst of the Seven Deadly Sins is Pride. Everyone who turned to evil, did it because of pride.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2014 23:12

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Data Graham posted:

Greetings Tolkienailures, does anyone have the requisite experience to advise me on how to deflect a friend's well-meaning and persistent recommendation to read The Wheel of Time? He's one of those "Tolkien's fine and all, but Robert Jordan was a real soldier and really understood how battles worked " types. I've tried to give it a halfhearted go once or twice, but it's always struck me as some kind of Dune/Narn i H�n Hurin mishmash with lots of gratuitous sex, but then again I haven't exactly been fair or gone about it in good faith.

Should I try harder at it, or anyone have any witty rejoinders I can use in defending my willful ignorance?

Just tell him to suck yo dilz.

rypakal posted:

Tolkien wrote more scenes with believable and sympathetic female characters than Robert Jordan.

ahahaha, this

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Aug 19, 2014

# ¿ Aug 19, 2014 09:27

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

# ¿ Aug 19, 2014 23:14

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Smoking Crow posted:

Hey, this thread is going on 5 years, which is defined as "way too loving long." Would it be ok for me to make a new thread?

Why, has Tolkien written anything new?

# ¿ Oct 30, 2014 16:46

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Smoking Crow posted:

Is Sauron pronounced "Sowron" or "Saron?"

Just use the Finnish pronounciation in everything :tipshat:

# ¿ Oct 31, 2014 21:08

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

UoI posted:

I've decided to give The Fellowship a read seeing as a I enjoy reading about Tolkien's lore of Middle-Earth. I chose this because I found it laying around one day and figured I'd go for it; but I'm wondering if maybe I should be reading The Hobbit or one of the books before set before that. I've never read any of Tolkien's books. What are you goonses thoughts?

The Hobbit is a short children's book so it won't be a chore, but The Fellowhip could be. Try Hobbit and if you don't like it, skip it, and if you don't like Fellowship, jump forward until you find something interesting. Many people think that the Shire part is really boring.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2014 09:59

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Yeah, I have never skipped that part, but I know many who have.

UoI, if you have seen the movies, but haven't read the books, you'll have to understand that they have quite different feel to them. The movies were big budget action films, while the books are more like road movies.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2014 18:30

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Could you post your impressions while you read, could be interesting.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2014 01:57

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

HIJK posted:

Ahhh, good progresssssssssssss gollum, gollum. The movies do leave the origins of that tick ambiguous I agree my precioussss.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2014 17:13

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

There's not even much evidence for straight people in the Middle Earth.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2014 21:15

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Orcs and Wizards both had some kind of explosives: http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2013/02/07/is-there-gunpowder-in-middle-earth/

# ¿ Dec 20, 2014 22:49

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

BatteredFeltFedora posted:

It also means "gently caress Feanor", which is a good general guideline.

F�anor was the best elf who ever elfed. Anyone who says anything else is just a betahobbit.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2015 17:11

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

The Fellowship of the Ring posted:

'Your small fire, of course, would not melt even ordinary gold. This Ring has already passed through it unscathed, and even unheated. But there is no smith's forge in this Shire that could change it at all. Not even the anvils and furnaces of the Dwarves could do that. It has been said that dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough; nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself. There is only one way: to find the Cracks of Doom in the depths of Orodruin, the Firemountain, and cast the Ring in there, if you really wish to destroy it, to put it beyond the grasp of the Enemy for ever.'

# ¿ Jan 15, 2015 21:58

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Lord Hydronium posted:

Does the idea of destroying something where it was made have any precedence in myth or folklore? For some reason that feels like it would be a very old idea that Tolkien drew upon, but I'm not familiar with any stories with that concept.

Can't say that I remember either.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2015 22:14

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Oracle posted:

I also think Tolkien's take on PTSD (for lack of a better term) wrt Frodo was also incredibly nuanced and unprecedented both for its time and today and is also rather overlooked in any analysis of his writings. I believe Tolkien himself suffered from 'shell shock' and kind of made himself sick to avoid going back to the front. Frodo's story really is probably the most tragic of anyone's in the books.

Tolkien didn't "kind of made himself sick to avoid going back to the front", and he didn't get 'shell shock', he had trench foot. There are :nms:

images of that online if you want to see what it looks like. He served on the front for only a few months before being invalided, but that was quite common.

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jan 16, 2015

# ¿ Jan 16, 2015 20:51

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Oracle posted:

It wasn't trench foot, it was trench fever.
He had several relapses, which I want to say I read somewhere as being interpreted by him as his body trying to keep him from going back to the war front but damned if I can find it now.

I stand corrected.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 00:43

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Levitate posted:

I always got the impression that half elves were for all intents and purposes elves if they chose to be without any real practical distinction.

They are. Though Elladan and Elrohir have also some Maiar in them too. Their father Elrond is "one sixteenth Maiar, nine sixteenths elven (five thirty-seconds Vanyarin, three thirty-seconds Noldorin, five sixteenths Sindarin) and three eighths human (one quarter of the House of B�or, one sixteenth of the House of Haleth, and one sixteenth of the House of Hador)" (from Wikipedia).

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 00:49

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Bendigeidfran posted:

As a related question, how did Dwarves get their food? I can't see any of the bigger dwarf settlements like Moria or Nogrod getting everything from trade, because they'd all die out if human farms didn't have a huge surplus/got killed by Orcs.

And did they actually cut down many forests? I remember that Ents were made because the Dwarves would be hungry for timber, but it doesn't look like they need very much wood and the deforestation is mostly attributed to humans or the Dark Lords.

Ha, I also spent some time thinking about the Dwarven food situation when i ran D&D campaigns. Also about the elf working class. Are there some poor elves who have for the last 5000 years just changed some elf lord's chamberpot and washed his laundry? Or do common elves take shitwork shifts?

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 19:43

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

As "unfallen' and without sin, Elves don't poop.Like Kim Jong Il, they just have a smooth little nodule where the rectum would be. Sometimes it emits a thin paste that can be pressed down into lembas.

Have you updated http://lotr.wikia.com/ yet?

drat the url tags are automatic now!

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jan 22, 2015

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 19:49

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Baloogan posted:

They would have access to coal. Or would they? Are there large concentrations of fossil fuels in ME like there are on Earth?

Middle Earth is Earth.

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 19:55

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

More seriously a quick google for "tolkien elves poop" found this:

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/pf/22_words.php

So what you're saying is that elves had house-elves?

# ¿ Jan 22, 2015 20:28

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

SirPhoebos posted:

It's funny, the thing that bugs me the most about Tolkein's biases is how wolves are basically four-legged orcs in the books. I wasn't bugged by the wargs in the movie, but that was because those were clearly CGI monsters. Wolves are actual animals, and they were nearly driven to extinction in North America because of the mindset that they're innately evil.

Sorry for the . On another note I find it kinda funny how way less of a jerk Boromir is in the book. I guess it goes to show 'If you miss one Will Save, no one ever lets you forget it.'

Most people in the films are just caricatures of what they were in the books. Especially Boromir and Denethor. And Gimli

, my favourite character. He's just a comic sidekick.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2015 16:42

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Murgos posted:

Considering how horrible Jordan got after book 6 this is one of the few occasions where almost anyone else could do a better job.

I'm pretty sure that if he hadn't died we would be getting ever longer books in perpetuity with less and less plot thread resolution in each successive edition.

And instead of plot resolution there would have been barely legal spanking from cover to cover.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2015 12:29

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

SirPhoebos posted:

I suddenly wish that Aleksandr Ptushko had had a chance to make a Hobbit and/or LOTR film.

For comparison the Finnish Hobbits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Koj0V7G46fs (it's about LotR)

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 20:41

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

SirPhoebos posted:

EDIT: Is Boromir holding a katana??

Hell yes! :roflolmao:

# ¿ Apr 9, 2015 22:12

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 08:09

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

After seeing the last Hobbit movie, I'm happy that there aren't going to be any new Tolkien movies for a while.

Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Apr 28, 2015

# ¿ Apr 28, 2015 07:56

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Tolkien's Middle-Earth: He was just Beorn this way

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