|
The banks don't want people to panic like they did in 2008 in the U.S. so, yeah, that is all that any of them will ever say, that this is a correction. I don't think it will be as bad as it was in the US but it is definitely going to be bad. Toronto's condo market will probably be a little worse than bad but that is because of speculators doing what they do best, speculating.
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2013 17:01
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 15:57 |
|
|
Cultural Imperial posted:Did you hear that we're talking ourselves into a housing crisis? Ten years ago, having a mortgage that was 3 times your annual salary was about right. Somewhere along the line, people were told that 6 or 7 or 10 times their annual salary was doable and, voila, people earning $60K are sitting in $800 000 homes. I work with a 23 year old who has a $360K condo. Go figure.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2013 17:19
|
|
|
Peven Stan posted:Have you guys learned to scapegoat immigrants yet for the bubble? During the peak of the housing boom in the US TIME magazine ran a story about how due to immigrants the housing bubble would never deflate or pop. Some guy on the radio last week: "Each year 100 000 people move to Toronto and those people need SOMEWHERE to live, right!?!. Wouldn't you have wanted to buy real estate in Manhattan 100 years ago!?!"
|
|
#
¿
Feb 15, 2013 15:54
|
|
|
ocrumsprug posted:And all that change did was put it back to basically where it was in 2006, which is when 0 down/40 year mortgages were introduced. The CPC gets to wear this bubble proudly, as they most certainly are responsible for it. And the whole reason for having stringent rules regarding lending was the Toronto housing crash of 1988/1989, basically what we saw in America from 2005 to 2008 but on a smaller scale. Were it not for those rules, instated by the Liberals in the early '90s, we would have been right alongside America, lending to people who cannot afford to pay, etc. The Canadian banks were begging the federal government to loosen up the rules but not until the CPC was elected did it happen.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 20, 2013 18:32
|
|
|
Mr. Wynand posted:So what exactly has caused the initial rise in prices in Vancouver anyway then? Was it just availability of credit? If so, why Vancouver? Or at least, why Vancouver so loving hard? Are the same credit terms not also available in Toronto and Montreal and so forth? AFAIK, Vancouver housing prices have gone up a full order of magnitude higher then any of those places. Toronto and Montreal are not bounded by the mountains, there is literally not enough land to go around in Vancouver. I realize that Montreal is an island but Montreal sprawls all over the place, as does Toronto. If you look back at property values in the US back when the poo poo started to hit the fan, prices in Manhattan actually went up. Also, Vancouver is not the best place in the world to live but that is for another thread.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 22, 2013 16:10
|
|
|
Yeah, the Canadian banks stuck to the story that they were not bailed out but it came to light in 2012 that they had been bailed out, to the tune of $114 billion. I believe the rationale behind not making it publicly known was so as not to create a panic but, yeah, our banks hosed up just as bad as the American ones.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2013 03:14
|
|
|
Twiin posted:The banks didn't get bailed out. The CCPA who I love with my whole heart wrote a total bullshit hay-guys-the-banks-got-bailed-out report that is totally misleading. This is the article I frist read about it in, I don't see how it is misleading, taxpayers propped up the banks. http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/05/24/the-real-canadian-bank-bailout/
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2013 16:53
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:We've thought about moving to a cheaper city but the rest of Canada seems like a hole compared to Victoria, or filled with mean francophones. We like living a nearly car-free lifestyle and other than a few other big cities that's really hard to do. Toronto has ok transit but is loving huge, who knows where your job will be. I mean Vancouver seems way too big for me, the idea of spending an hour to visit a friend or go to work or an event or something is a deal-breaker, so something as huge as Toronto is out. I've heard good things about Montreal although once again it's probably too big and I'm absolutely useless with languages. Quebec city looks gorgeous and it's core is probably the closest to a proper city in Canada, but good luck not speaking french let alone not being from there. I've heard ok things about Halifax. Alberta is absolutely off the table, despise just about everything about the place, specially Calgary. I don't want you to stop posting because it is fascinating, maybe an E/N thread? Serious chat: Despite baby boomers getting us into this mess, they are still our salvation! http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/blogs/balance-sheet/baby-boomers-sway-canada-housing-market-125153618.html Baby Boomers to sway Canada’s housing market The Baby Boom generation that helped drive up home sales in recent decades will be part of its gearing down as seniors retire and settle down for longer in one place. Canada’s aging population will have “important implications” for future housing demand in the coming decades, according to a new report from Scotiabank. That includes a slowdown in overall housing sales, balanced somewhat by a steady number of condos purchased as Baby Boomers downsize and more people wind up living alone.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2013 04:13
|
|
|
Rime posted:Can anyone here speak on the topic of how much risk the real estate bubble presents to our banking system? I'm not talking mortgages, but direct property holdings. The credit unions here seem to be bankrolling an awful lot of condo developments and it's giving me the jitters what might happen to them if the bubble were to pop... I am sure our banks have learned a lot from the American banks and their number fudging, the shadow inventory concept has probably already started in places like Toronto and Vancouver.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2013 21:07
|
|
|
Albino Squirrel posted:Edmonton actually turns out to have some very nice neighbourhoods which still have some properties (if you're lucky) for reasonable prices. I lucked out and was able to find a good condition heritage home in a walkable neighbourhood, 10 minutes by car or 30 minutes by transit away from my office, for less than half a mil. Similar properties don't exist given commute times in Vancouver or Toronto, but if you got a bit farther out you'd be paying ~1.5 in Toronto or 3 million plus in Vancouver. Incomes certainly aren't any higher in BC or Ontario, so I presume the bubble has to pop soon. Because loving nobody can afford real estate anymore. I don't know about Vancouver but there are still homes in the downtown core of Toronto that are well under a million. A friend of mine just bought a house for $635K within walking distance of a subway station, for example. And, of course, there are thousands of condos for sale within walking distance of any hospital, even though I know you said you wanted a house.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2013 15:18
|
|
|
tagesschau posted:A $635,000 house in the downtown core is probably about half the size it should be for that price, like just about everything else in the GTA housing market at the moment. I thought that too but it is a fully detached house with a garage. I should say that it was north of Bloor but, yeah, I was just as surprised as you.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2013 21:24
|
|
|
Grand Theft Autobot posted:Hahahaha holy poo poo that is so goddamn much money. What does your friend do for a living? Does he play for the loving Blue Jays or something? Well, he and his wife each earn a little over a hundred grand a year so $635K doesn't seem too outrageous. They were approved for close to a million, is that unusual though? Plus, I was responding to a guy who is a doctor, doctor's make a ton of money. I have a friend who is a doctor and he is married to another doctor and they purchased a house last year that was $1.2 million but in a really nice neighbourhood. This is all in Toronto.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2013 01:24
|
|
|
Just for the hell of it, this is a link to the real estate agent's site with the photos of the house. I made one mistake, it actually sold for $625K, which was the asking price. And it looks like it might be a two car garage. It is about a 5 minute walk to Eglinton West subway station. http://homesite.obeo.com/Viewer/Default.aspx?tourid=772419&refURL=youtube
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2013 01:50
|
|
|
Grand Theft Autobot posted:If they both make over $100k that $625 isn't too outrageous, but approved for $1million is crazy. I know nothing of Toronto neighborhoods. Is this house in an extremely desirable location. I ask because my wife and I just bought our first house, and it has nearly identical specs, in a highly desirable neighborhood. In 2007 the house was $250k, and we got it a month ago for $160k. It is very close to the subway and it is a decent neighbourhood with good schools so I guess that makes it desirable but I wouldn't say extremely desirable. It is a safe area and, from the photos, the house looks pretty nice to me. Roncesvalles Village is extremely desirable and houses are way over valued, in my opinion. My sister bought her house in 1999 for $320K and it is now valued at $1.1 million. It is a really nice house but the area is trendy because of cool coffee shops and whatnot but the schools suck and there is a pretty bad neighbourhood, Parkdale, bordering it. I am amazed that people are dropping crazy amounts of money on homes just because it is trendy. My doctor friend that I mentioned above lives in Leaside and the homes there are big and beautiful and it is close to downtown as well as the subway, I can see the value in that neighbourhood. His neighbours are all professionals and probably most of them own their houses outright, just as my friend does. In Roncesvalles, I think a lot of the people are "house-poor", which could be a big problem once the correction comes as interest rates are likely to go back up.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2013 04:36
|
|
|
Does anyone read Garth Turner's blog? He seems to have some interesting ideas: http://www.greaterfool.ca/
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2013 15:31
|
|
|
Fraternite posted:There's lots of Africans in Edmonton. I work as a Production Supervisor at an industrial plant and a good quarter of my staff is African. Lots of Ghanians, South Sudanese, Nigerians, and Somalis. Well, this is racist. How about this bubble then? It sounds exactly like what our government is doing to forestall the crash here, do tactics like these even work? http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/04/02/more-china-cities-puncture-holes-in-housing-bubble/ Both Beijing and Shanghai have increased down payment requirements on second homes and upped a sales tax from 2% to 20% on all used home sales. Moreover, in Beijing, it is now against housing regulations to buy a second home in the same city. The central government is asking other cities to do the same thing immediately.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 8, 2013 10:38
|
|
|
man thats gross posted:This was including mortgage interest (used the default 5.5% despite rates currently being lower to account for future fluctuations), 0.8% property tax, 4% buying and 6% selling closing costs, 0.5% insurance, 1% annual for maintenance and renovations, and $200 monthly utilities. I see small bungalows listed in Mimico/Etobicoke in the low 400s all the time. You can knock it down and build something nice in a few years and the neighbourhood is great.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 19, 2013 16:14
|
|
|
Bleu posted:Ah, yes, the incredibly stable and high-performing global economy. Truly we rest on a bedrock of granite. Unlike your standard Toronto condo, which is lucky if it's even at rest. There is a condo down by River and King East that was apparently built too close to the King Street bridge and the bridge has shifted.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2013 16:37
|
|
|
Sassafras posted:2013 Assessment values available for all BC properties at http://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/ Crazy. Is there anything similar to this for Toronto or Ontario as a whole?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2014 21:06
|
|
|
tagesschau posted:Roncesvalles fixer-upper draws a crowd and a hefty $803,649 sale price I live in this neighbourhood and I think that the buyer got a pretty good deal provided they actually intend to live in the house. I don't see much room to make money by flipping it but I could be wrong, a house two blocks over that is just as big was listed the other day for 1.35 million and it needs a lot of work as well.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 1, 2014 03:22
|
|
|
Lexicon posted:This is probably a horribly ignorant thing to say, but it's always struck me that Canada really doesn't really have that many places worth living (said from the perspective of someone who really likes urban amenities not to mention employment). I mean, lots of choices if you like camping and 'small town charm', but that really doesn't do it for me. I agree but this also applies to pretty much every country, doesn't it?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 7, 2014 20:12
|
|
|
A friend of mine who knows a correction is coming just bought a house for $1.6M in Toronto. He says he doesn't care about the correction because he likes the house and the area that he is in and he figures that it will go back up in value eventually. He was involved in a bidding war but it wasn't too crazy since I guess at the higher end of things, there are less interested parties. At least, that would be my guess.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2014 01:16
|
|
|
Cultural Imperial posted:So uh, how much does your friend make a year? I'd guess around $300K or so. He can actually afford the house and the neighbourhood is full of professionals who can afford to be there which was also an attractive quality of the neighbourhood, according to my friend. When I walk around my neighbourhood of Roncesvalles, I keep thinking about how crazy the prices of houses are here and that there will be a lot of for sale signs once the interest rates start to go up. Saltin posted:Million + homes tend to go for under asking in Toronto since the Fed changed the rules about CMHC insurance for big mortgages. Essentially you need 20% down in any million+ scenario. It cooled that sector of the market significantly and lit the 500-900k market in desirable neighbourhoods absolutely on fire. It must be a hell of a place for a bidding war to happen in that price range. It's not normal. Yes, I think my friend's house only went over asking by a few thousand, I will ask him when I see him next. It is a very nice house but it is the neighbourhood that he really likes, it is near Bayview and Lawrence. Someone in this thread was talking recently about Rosedale and how it has doubled in value since the crash in America. Another friend of mine bought a house in the Bridal Path in 2008 and it has already doubled in value according to him. He wasn't bragging, he was just telling me that 3 houses on his street have each sold for more than $4M in the last few months and he paid slightly less than $2M for his house.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
Cultural Imperial posted:You know, even at 300k a year I fail to see how he can afford the mortgage on that house. I'm guessing his take home is about 5k every 2 weeks. That's after tax, rrsp, espp, etc. At 25% down that's a 1.2 million mortgage. That's about 6000 a month on mortgage payments. I may have guesstimated low, he currently works for McKinsey but was with Google for a few years and Facebook before that and he drives a Subaru. As far as I know, he makes good money and is not house poor, he made a boatload off a house that he owned in san Francisco, maybe he used that money to pay for this house. Anyways, enough about my friend, it is interesting that to afford his neighbourhood a person has to make so much money though, I never did the math... My friend in the bridal path has no mortgage, he paid cash for it. I don't think that this is very unusual in that neighbourhood, I don't think anyone in there works a regular job as we know it. jet sanchEz fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Mar 7, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2014 09:21
|
|
|
Alberta Cross posted:The patriotic Canadian in me would be loathe to live somewhere called Liberty Village, it sounds so American. There used to be a little pocket of artists in and around Liberty Street who rented out spaces in old factories that were semi-converted to residential units. A couple of friends of mine were paying $400 a month for these gigantic units that were about a thousand square feet with 15 foot high ceilings, it was pretty sweet. The only real downside was that there was only one bathroom per floor so you'd have 15 people sharing it but everybody was pretty clean and respectful. Now, yeah, it completely sucks down there, the stupid name is only the tip of the iceberg. A friend of mine bought a pre-built condo in Liberty Village in 2009 or so as an investment and he had a hard time selling it last autumn, he had to lower the asking price two times before he was able to unload it. I think he only barely came out ahead as well, and he paid very little for it back in 2009.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2014 19:38
|
|
|
My sister was offered a massive amount of money for her house by a serious buyer and she turned it down. She and her family like where they live and to actually save any of the money, they'd have to buy a house outside of the city so what would be the point? Edit: I should clarify; she has a coach house on her property and someone with a lot of money just HAD to have a coach house in the Roncesvalles neighbourhood so offered her and her husband, through a realtor, a big chunk of change. They bought in 1999 and have 5 kids so they are just about the only people in one of these huge houses that actually need the space and can afford it. jet sanchEz fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Mar 25, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2014 15:38
|
|
|
My girlfriend's parents just sold their house today. It needs an absolute minimum of $50K work done to it, is a 10 minute walk from Finch station on a smallish lot of land that borders onto a goddamned hydro field and they got $830K for it. They bought it 25 years ago for a pittance and, needless to say, they are very happy with the selling price. There was no bidding war and, they in fact lowered their price by a little over ten grand. They sold because their neighbour down the street got $900K for his house a few months ago and they intended to downsize anyways. I am happy for them.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2014 21:01
|
|
|
My friend put a bid in on a house this past Tuesday that was thirty thousand over asking because she liked everything about it but the sale price ended up being $132 000 over asking.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2014 15:44
|
|
|
Beaches. It sold for 1.2 and change, the list price was 1.1
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2014 16:40
|
|
|
I think she told me she was pre-approved for 1.3M but that is on her own, with her partner, I guess it would be more? She earns more than him though so, I have no idea. I actually think she would not have a mortgage, she'd likely be paying in cash, she only talked to the bank because about a mortgage because she was unemployed when she came back to Toronto. Since I know you will ask, she is a VP with a Fortune 500 company but I don't know her annual salary. She did just come back from working in the US for a couple of years with Berkshire Hathaway where she was also a VP.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2014 18:45
|
|
|
Yeah, she wanted the house and, of course, the realtor came back to her with the 1.232M offer to beat but she said that paying $132K over asking is stupid.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2014 19:53
|
|
|
Yonge and Glencairn is a very nice area, I don't see why the listing agent wouldn't have just listed it at a million and gone from there. I believe knob and tube just became uninsurable recently, my friend was told by his insurance company that they would not insure him if he didn't update the wiring in his building. He is with State Farm and this was about six months ago. He spent $25K to have it done on a building similar in size to the house in the article so, really, it is a pittance against $1.366M. Also, a house inspection is not always necessary if a house is going to be demolished anyways. Cultural Imperial posted:Game theory. If you're in competition with people more desperate to build equity than you, submit an offer with no subjects. My parents house sold for well over a million with no subjects. People are dumb as hell. I have a friend who bought a house a few years ago and he signed with no conditions because he knew that whatever would need to be done wouldn't cost as much as getting into a bidding war. jet sanchEz fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Apr 30, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Apr 30, 2014 16:26
|
|
|
etalian posted:
My friend bought Apple at $77 and told me to buy as much as I could but I didn't listen.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2014 07:17
|
|
|
Death By The Blues posted:Its what I figured. Stupid good location for the condo and on a good floor. Hard for them to say no. Although, they aren't boomers thankfully. Do they know that neighbourhood well? It is crazy busy and loud, especially on weekend nights, the noise doesn't die down until about 4am, which I assume will be quite different than their current location in Durham. Did they buy something pre-build in that development right on the corner or have they bought something in one of the many others already built nearby? Where in Durham are they?
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2014 15:47
|
|
|
Everyone has anecdotes about how cheap things were for their parents. My parents owned 4 properties in Toronto back in the '60s but sold them all to buy a farm out in Caledon. They sold all four houses in 1972 and made big big bucks at the time, so I am told. I kind of wish they had kept everything because the houses were all in the Annex but I loved living on the farm, it was a great place for a kid to grow up. We moved back to Toronto in 1985 and rented but, again, they bought property when everything crashed in 1988-ish, three houses over a span of five years. They rented out two of them and we lived in one, this time the houses were all in Parkdale because they were cheap and big and close to everything, just like the ones in the Annex had been back in the '60s. My dad died and my mom sold everything and now rents an apartment close to my sister's family and couldn't be happier. From my parents I have learned that real estate, like many things, is cyclical. jet sanchEz fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jun 16, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2014 16:58
|
|
|
LemonDrizzle posted:Why on earth would you want to buy a home in a city with bad prospects? If you're that keen on getting nice houses for a song, I hear Detroit's pretty cheap... You've never been to Montreal, have you?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 17, 2014 15:50
|
|
|
sitchensis posted:I was wondering where I'd seen this cover before. Thanks. Here's the article from that issue, it is kind of crappy as they only talk about houses that sell over asking and not about much else. The photos are pretty though. http://www.torontolife.com/informer/toronto-real-estate/2014/09/30/real-estate-mania/?page=all#tlb_multipage_anchor_1 What I found most interesting was how much a house goes for on Melbourne. The homes are beautiful but the neighborhood is lovely, as are the schools. For just a little bit more a person could be in a similar house in a much better neighborhood but Parkdale is trendy so a million dollars is a small price to pay, I guess. It is close to downtown, I'll give them that.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 4, 2014 17:13
|
|
|
etalian posted:Perhaps a longer time period would tell a different story? My parents bought a house in Parkdale after the crash of 1990, it was about $180K. I remember being mad at them for buying a house in such a terrible neighbourhood but that was all we could afford and the house itself was very large and quite beautiful inside. Back then there were drugs everywhere, hookers on every corner and it wasn't safe at night. We sold it in 2011 for $650K; the neighbourhood isn't all that much better but the hookers are gone.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 14, 2014 20:56
|
|
|
How much money has Canada lost now that the price of crude has dropped? I've been reading that OPEC is purposely tanking the price of crude and that they have no intention of stopping this "war" any time soon, perhaps this will mean a rise in interest rates soon?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 2, 2014 17:57
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 15:57 |
|
|
Lexicon posted:Which really underscores how pernicious it is to rely on oil revenues to fund government. You don't say? Russia will hit recession in 2015 because of oil and Ukraine, Kremlin admits The Russian government has for the first time acknowledged that the country will fall into recession next year, battered by the combination of Western sanctions and a plunge in the price of its oil exports. The economic development ministry on Tuesday revised its GDP forecast for 2015 from growth of 1.2 per cent to a drop of 0.8 per cent. Disposable income is expected to decline by 2.8 per cent against the previously expected 0.4 per cent growth. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-will-hit-recession-in-2015-because-of-oil-and-ukraine-kremlin-admits-1.2857186
|
|
#
¿
Dec 2, 2014 18:53
|
|