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CodfishCartographer posted:Then one chapter something in my brain snapped and I realized just how big of a copy it is of JJK. High schoolers in secret group that hunts demons. Main character summons other demon's to fight. Other main character is a ridiculously powerful demon hunter that everyone knows about that also covers their eyes for mysterious reasons. For whatever reason the similarities became so obvious to me that I just couldn't keep reading be abuse it stopped being a story to me, and just a means to leech off JJK's success. It just doesn't have enough of its own voice to make it stand above those comparisons like Chainsaw Man did - which was even MORE of a blatant copy, but oozed style so strongly that it didn't matter. CSM eventually veered far off in its own direction than JJK, and while maybe Phantom Seer will too, I just am not that interested in staying along for the ride. Maybe if it sticks around for a while and posters here sing it some praises I'll check it out again. I do want to like it, it's just pretty blah. I know going to bat for Chainsaw Man is something of a default setting for me, but it showed its hand pretty early with Denji's absurdly terrible background, and he was putting "touch a girl's boobs" as his Big Shonen Goal by chapter 4. While going with the standard post-Naruto trio for the main cast (loud blonde hero, stoic black haired rival, red-to-pink haired main girl) is a big similarity between JJK and Chainsaw Man that Phantom Seer lacks, Chainsaw Man takes a very hard swerve away from the default in the basic setup with Public Safety being, well, public. Instead of monster hunters being a shadowy secret organization of heroes, they're civil servants, complete with a union and vacation days. Being a Devil Hunter isn't special. It's the job you take when you can't even get into your safety school. Basically, it's immediate grounding for the setting in a way that contrasts with most demon hunting manga, including Jujutsu. Something that's been often noted (and sometimes praised) about Jujutsu Kaisen is how little time it spends on the "school" part of monster hunter school, keeping the focus on the adventure part. Yuji's "regular" friends got ditched in chapter 1, for example. Chainsaw Man, by contrast, keeps a bit of focus on the mundane for the contrast. Yes, Devil Hunting is a life and death struggle against the supernatural embodiments of human fear, but the paperwork and the drinks with coworkers are the same as for any other job in 90s Japan. I'll freely admit that Chainsaw Man has a lot of similarities, but I think that the differences showed up early enough to make it feel like an amusing coincidence rather than a redundancy. Anyway, going back to stuff currently running in Jump, I've been paying attention to the sales figures off and on, and since I saw people asking about it without getting answers, I figured I should at least pass on some broad outline stuff. Roboco's selling pretty well for a gag manga, which probably secures its future. High School Family and Magu-Chan aren't so lucky, but gag mangas have low expectations, so they're probably not top of the chopping block. Mashle's a bit of a breakout hit right now. It's big with middle aged women, and selling the best numbers of the non-established serieses, although it's still not up there with the utterly insane numbers Kaiju 8 is getting. (500K a volume by volume 2 is an astonishing start. Between Kaiju, Spy, and Chainsaw Man part 2, Jump Plus has some very high profile hits.) Finally, Phantom Seer is... weird. It's getting pretty solid numbers for current jump (not Mashle or anything, but it's regularly selling out), but it's not getting promotions like Undead Unluck or Masle, and it's constantly at the back of the magazine. Some people are conspiracy mongering about Jump editorial wanting to kill it, for one reason or another, but whatever the truth is, it feels weird.
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Mar 16, 2021 08:10
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CodfishCartographer posted:Awesome post, thanks! I want to clarify that by saying CSM was a blatant copy of JJK, I wasn't really saying that as a bad thing because CSM uses that expectation and really fucks with the reader cus of it. It definitely hints at where it's going with Denji's boob goal, the mundanity of the setting, and just the overall tone. However the surface-level stuff really makes it come off as a copy, and I think most readers will just think it's a copy that has a weird tone. The first few arcs really try to sell this to you, too. Here's a wacky group of characters, with a few waifu candidates too! Oh man this eyepatch girl likes top-knot, I wonder if they'll get together! It really works hard to get you into the Shonen manga groove, then she loving dies and half the "cast" dies or leaves the story wholesale. The attack on the train is what really "starts" CSM in my opinion, everything else before that point is solely setting up for that moment. That's fair. One thing that makes the whole bit work even better for me is how freely Chainsaw Man shows its hand there. It's constantly emphasized that Devil Hunters don't tend to last long. Aki and Himeno talk about how every rookie Aki trained before Denji has died or quit, she's got a long list of former buddies, the bar visit has one of the other Devil Hunters casually mention that their team's rookie died since Himeno last saw them. Dying fast is the default. But we know the genre. Even Attack on Titan is mostly lethal to background characters, with 'lethality' being a thing to hype the reader up more than to have an impact on the story. The leads are bulletproof. ...Except they're not. Himeno and Arai die the very next day after the get-together, and suddenly it's clear that this whole "Devil Hunting is a sucker's game" thing isn't just for show. Similarly, we get Aki's doom foreshadowed a mile away, but the genre says that people can break fate, that this isn't going to happen like we were promised... except the genre is wrong, and the Future is Best. Chainsaw Man is what it is from the start (unlike Jujutsu, which feels like it takes a little more time to rev up). It just takes a while to realize that what you see is what you get.
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Mar 17, 2021 00:26
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Blockhouse posted:I think it's that volume sales are much more important than rankings/the ToC Both matter to some extent, if what I've read is right. A series with really bad volume sales is unlikely to survive, and a series with amazing sales can be at the back of the magazine without risk, but there's a lot of middle ground, depending on series type. For example, the common wisdom is that ratings matter a lot less for ecchi manga, because voters are more reluctant to admit they're reading them in polls. Meanwhile, gag manga are seldom top sellers, but having a few gives the magazine as a whole better variety, so something like Roboco selling less is fine as long as people reading the magazine like it. (Good sales still help, of course.) It also helps if you're drawing an audience Jump wants to cultivate, and it hurts if sales are static, helps to have a unique niche, hurts if you're a veteran pulling rookie numbers, etc. There's a lot going into the math, and sometimes just being surrounded by worse flops can get you a much longer run. (Phantom Seer's in an interesting place. TOC placement is abysmal, but the sales are pretty solid, with growth potential. 100K over 2 volumes is a pretty solid start, even if it's easy to forget with how insane series like Spy X Family and Kaiju 8 have been. Can't say I've ever seen anything like it.)
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Mar 22, 2021 02:51
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Electric Phantasm posted:Do we know if Kaiju 8 and Spy X Family are still selling like crazy? Yes. Spy X Family crossed eight million copies in circulation with the last volume released, with volume 6 getting a million copy initial print run. Kaiju 8, meanwhile, announced that it has over a million copies in circulation with only two volumes released. Jump Plus is really going places right now.
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Mar 22, 2021 03:04
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Jose posted:turns out makng stuff available online for free encourages people to buy stuff as a response lol Well, eventually. Jump Plus only really started catching on with Fire Punch a couple of years after it launched. And even then, the hits were respectable, but well below mainline Jump, with titles like Astra Lost In Space and World's End Harem getting Black Clover style numbers on the high end. Spy X Family and Kaiju 8, meanwhile, are selling better than My Hero Academia, despite not having anime to promote them. It's a pretty impressive jump over their contemporaries. A Jump Plus, if you will.
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Mar 22, 2021 03:41
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The Black Stones posted:Oh it’s been in long enough to be cancelled. (More than a couple chapters was long enough) It's long enough to be terrible, but manga tend to get more than 10 chapters even if they're disasters. Chagecha is the only series to be cancelled after just one volume in recent years. Most of the time, they get at least two. Jump generally wants to know if a series can get an audience before canning it. As for Dolphin, vets with a success under their belts tend to get more slack. It's most obvious with Samurai Eight, but the basic idea is that if you can connect to audiences once, you probably can figure out how to right the ship again. Not always true, but that's the theory. (Which is part of why Seer's cancellation is so weird. What's even happening here?) chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Mar 28, 2021 |
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Mar 28, 2021 03:39
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Electric Phantasm posted:Someone posted some rankings a few pages back and High School Family is apparently pretty popular. Even aside from that (Shonen Jump's rankings have a lot of factors other than raw popularity, which can make it tough to assess from the outside) it's a short gag manga by a veteran, so it has a ton of factors that let it survive longer with low sales. Doesn't hurt that Shonen Jump has had a lot of flops and finales lately, so something doing just middling can last much longer than it would under more cutthroat circumstances. (Like Agravity Boys managing a whole year).
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Mar 29, 2021 04:40
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Buzzsaw Roomba posted:
Good enough that people have been wondering if it'll be serialized since it came out, especially since it's gotten more promotions than most one shots in Jump, and it fills some niches that have been less focused on lately. Curious if the serialization will start like the one shot, or if they'll draw things out a little more.
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Mar 31, 2021 03:29
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Desperate Character posted:While Edens Zero is on crunchyroll (to get it on your phone you need to download the crunchyroll manga app), it only offers chapter 1 then skips to chapter 33. That's because the Planet With manga is still ongoing. It started about the same time as the anime, and is in a monthly magazine, so the anime finished before the manga was really going.
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Apr 1, 2021 02:19
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Electric Phantasm posted:Wait, really? Is it still following the same plotline? As far as I know, yeah. It's just fleshing some things out more now that it's not crammed into 12 episodes.
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Apr 1, 2021 12:58
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dogsicle posted:i feel like usually when there's stuff not in the app but on the site it's due to explicit content e.g. Ayakashi Triangle. but Mangaplus has AT and shares the same rating on the play store as Shonen Jump so That's the general policy, yeah. It's just that different people place the limits in different places out of caution. It's also why exactly one chapter of Chainsaw Man isn't in the app. (I'd say "It's the one with the lesbian orgy", but there's multiple chapters that applies to, forcing me to clarify with "It's the one with a color spread of a lesbian orgy". Rin and Fujimoto seem to have been locked in an escalating duel over Rin telling Fujimoto that he could do what he wants.)
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Apr 3, 2021 03:54
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Julias posted:I don't know about promising but yeah "Blue Box" starts next week. I mean, Blue Box has pretty big buzz for a one shot, with over 300K views for the voice comic on Jump's channel. For comparison, Phatom Seer's voice comic is only at 53K. Sooner is also, generally speaking, better than later when a manga gets buzz. You want people going "Oh, cool, that one-shot I like is getting serialized!" not "...What was that one again?"
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Apr 5, 2021 00:14
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Julias posted:Oh I should have clarified, I didn't mean that in a "I think it's bad" way, I meant it in a literal "I don't know if it's promising, I don't know anything about it or the one shot" way. No worries. I didn't think you were saying it was bad. I just felt that it was worth bringing up, in the context of a slightly odd cancellation, that what they were bringing in to replace Phantom Seer was starting off with a higher level of expected audience interest. It's basically a rare case where the answer to "Is there really a promising manga starting next week that really needs to start next week and not in a couple months?" is "yes."
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Apr 5, 2021 22:47
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Dexo posted:My guess is those two getting breaks like that is more because they are selling and doing absurdly well. Nah, those were the schedules for the manga even before they were hits. It's a Jump Plus thing that's been discussed in interviews. Not having to worry about a physical publication gives a lot more flexibility in both timing and page allotment.
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Apr 16, 2021 01:21
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Fabricated posted:I feel like Weekly Jump could easily switch to a publishing model where they just publish a few more series and let a couple mangaka take a week off every week. It might be possible, and even better in the long term, but it's certainly not easy. Putting aside the difficulties of switching the system over to accommodate a rotating system, and selling the public on getting less of their favorite manga in the interests of the wider industry, there's also the issue that it wouldn't be in the best interests of all the mangaka involved. The most complicated variable is the speed and endurance of the writers. You see all kinds of people if you look at the schedules for manga writers, and all kinds of capacity. Some people are basically eating themselves alive, some are basically on top of things... until a minor health issue comes up, or something else throws off the schedule (at which point they spiral), and you even have people like Aka Akasaka who can manage multiple series at once without breaking down. No matter which pace you pick, there are going to be people who are still strained, and people who are pushing at the limits. But on top of that there's also the fact that the weekly delivery is important for rookies who need to hook people in. Sure, waiting an extra week or two for One Piece won't make most people drop it, but a series like Blue Box or Sakamoto Days could easily fall in the surveys with just a week's absence. Jump Plus isn't just good because it's more generous to the writers, but because it's more flexible, letting authors set their own pace. Going for a different one size fits all system isn't a better way forward. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Apr 16, 2021 |
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Apr 16, 2021 07:33
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:I started reading Roboco after I saw the Jujutsu parody MV and holy poo poo it's an amazingly fun manga, Jesus. Definitely. I bounced off the first couple chapters, but came back after seeing it was doing well in the reader polls, and I'm glad I did. It's very much riffing on Doraemon for the core, with other Jump references for flavor, but it does a good job putting its own spin. Having the class "bullies" be the nicest human beings imaginable was a kind of inspired decision, and the core dynamics are fleshed out enough to carry scenes even if you don't get the references. Also, I appreciate the endless Chainsaw Man praise. Makes the characters feel more relatable.
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Apr 19, 2021 09:23
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Yeah, seems like Chainsaw Man avoids everything that you don't like about shonen. It even reverses the protagonist inner demon thing. Denji's inner monster is a very good boy... who kills a bunch of innocent people basically because they happened to get too close.
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May 2, 2021 05:44
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DoubleDonut posted:people will debate "if the current arc is the best" in literally anything. I have no strong opinions on One Piece but popularity is absolutely not an indicator of quality Yeah, looking around I've seen a lot more "Geeze, Wano is just going on." than "Wano, motherfuckers!" I was really impressed when I read early One Piece, and I do mean to get back to it at some point, but it definitely seems to be suffering from a lot of the problems common to long running fight shonen, and it's more obvious because it's had so long to bloat up. As people have pointed out, the entirety of Chainsaw Man's first part (Public Safety Arc) took place while Wano was running, and Wano still isn't wrapped up. That's kind of a rough go.
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May 2, 2021 20:43
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nrook posted:The best arc in modern shonen is the ball boy arc Chainsaw Man's tournament arc is the best. I will accept no argument.
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May 3, 2021 03:17
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:
I dunno. Three chapters in should be enough to provide some kind of unique hook, and I'm not really seeing one right now. It's not a Bone Collector or an i tell c, where it's obviously just flailing until cancellation, but it's not MHA, Chainsaw Man, or Assassination Classroom either, where there's something to draw you forward from chapter 1. One thing I kind of was thinking this chapter , though? There seems to be a definite Masao Ōtake influence on the art. The general designs, the reaction shots, the expressions, they all suggest, at minimum, that the artist really likes Hinamatsuri. I can respect that.
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May 10, 2021 22:54
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Rohan Kishibe posted:Witch Watch abandoned that so quick I doubt it should even count. I kind of think the story/setting would be stronger if the mangaka had just went "this is a world where some people are witches/oni /tengu and nobody gives a poo poo" from the get go but whatever who cares. Ah yes, Dr. Stone. Where the protagonist's powers come from the most forbidden of all sources: Literacy.
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May 11, 2021 00:16
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If we're talking variants on the theme, I'm quite fond of Chainsaw Man's. The protagonist gets his powers from a deal with a devil... and that's how pretty much everyone operates. The biggest difference is that the protagonist made a deal based on friendship with one of the nicest, most heroic characters in the whole manga (as shown from chapter 1). Kind of the opposite of the standard.
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May 11, 2021 05:21
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The Black Stones posted:I think 9 Dragons just doesn’t have any character you really latch onto. The pitcher doesn’t get all that much spotlight, the main nerdy guy doesn’t do anything besides “be smart” and the super smug guy is annoying. I’ve been keeping up with it, but there’s nothing and nobody to keep me hooked. I haven’t read Haikyu, but with the anime it sets up a great protagonist from the get go that you can cheer for and I just don’t see anybody that’s worth it. They also were going way too slowly before things kicked into overdrive. The first volume ended with the team having three members out of nine, with no real stakes in play short term. Compare to Haikyuu, and you see that ended volume 1 with the practice game where the protagonists finally learn to start working together as a team. Eyeshield 21, and it concludes volume 1 with the team's first real game. And Ashita No Joe ended volume 1 with Joe in the slammer using boxing to settle his grudges. If your hook at the end of volume 1 is "we'll eventually have something exciting happen!", you're not going to get many readers putting you at the top in the survey results.
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Jun 7, 2021 03:03
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Lily Catts posted:Still liking Blue Box a lot, even if latest chapter leaned on the how could she just change in front of me doesn't she realize I'm a boy trope a bit Have you read Chainsaw Man? It's an odd recommendation, I know, and it has a lot that's as far from soft as you get, but it also has some really good moments of empathy with the characters... even as it goes through them like a chainsaw.
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Jun 14, 2021 05:27
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CodfishCartographer posted:A guest will visit you on a hot day Ook.
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Jun 21, 2021 01:11
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Ytlaya posted:Isn't High School Family actually very popular though? I feel like I remember hearing something about that selling a lot of volumes. I'm still looking up the exact figures, but I remember Roboco was the one moving a lot of volumes. High School Family and Magu-Chan were lower. The thing with that is, they're all gag series, and they're all being judged by gag series standards. While gags sell less (Roboco's surprisingly good numbers are just somewhere around 20K) they're also expected to sell less, acting more as a bonus to the magazine than a standalone product. That's not to say that they're immune to Jump's usual rules. They just get axes a bit slower, and have a lower bar most of the time. Magu-Chan and High School Family thus have a bit of a buffer with I Tell C and 9 Dragons. Non-gag flops get canned faster than gags, but the numbers aren't good enough for them to stay forever.
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Jun 22, 2021 07:51
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ConanThe3rd posted:I tell C has its day with the hangman set to next monday (ending on chapter 21). Retooling to be lighter and goofier right after having the main villain show up and brutally murder one of the three leads was certainly a choice. It looks like this is going to have a pretty awkward ending, which is a nice contrast with Dolphin, which managed to go through its whole endgame plot and land where it meant to, even if it sliced out most of the middle to get there.
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Jun 23, 2021 06:39
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Ytlaya posted:There's something sort of depressingly amusing about the manga with early cancellation endings that are like "our adventure has just begun!" I always imagine the author just sadly thinking about what could have been. Barrage is probably the least depressing of those for me. It's an incredibly stock shonen manga without much to distinguish itself, and it really feels like after Zoo, Horikoshi just went "gently caress it. I'm going to make the most generic mass appeal series this time, maybe that'll catch on." And when it didn't, he made something he actually cared about, and now it's the second longest running series in current Jump, with 50 million plus volumes sold. Interesting to see people talking up Bone Collector. I didn't see much love when it was running, and I ditched pretty fast. Definitely didn't help it was sharing the modern monster hunter niche with JJK and Chainsaw Man, of course.
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Jun 24, 2021 07:51
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Mulderman posted:Counterpoint. Ziga is proof enough that widespread fanart isn't enough to save a series by itself. I think it's still a little early to predict if Red Hood has what it takes to survive. Still, seems to have a clearer path forward than most of the recent flops.
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Jun 29, 2021 11:52
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Manatee Cannon posted:that choujin x thing from the tokyo ghoul guy updated and god what a mess of a chapter that was Yeah, when you end a chapter with a cliffhanger, it's traditionally good form to open by following up on the cliffhanger. Choujin X went with the less conventional route of going on a completely different plot line, only to casually resolve the last chapter's setup in the final page. It's a bold strategy, Cotton. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 03:01
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Cloks posted:imagine being the only sports manga in jump and blowing it High School Family's volleyball plotline beg to differ. (It was pretty funny the week Roboco did a baseball story and did it better than Nine Dragons in fewer pages, even hitting some of the exact same beats.) Also, the love for Bone Collector has convinced me that there is nothing Jump can cancel that won't be praised as a lost classic a few months down the line.
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Jun 30, 2021 21:51
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doomrider7 posted:Bring back Hanakaku!!! That picture seems less toned than you'd expect from MMA fighters. I know art styles differ and all, but it still feels a bit odd.
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Jul 1, 2021 23:01
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The Black Stones posted:I’m surprised it’s not doing better than Yozakura. I tried getting into that when I first got the Shonen Jump app and it was so aggressively mediocre. It was terrible, but I couldn’t say a good thing about it. Yozakura's got the benefits of being a long time survivor. As the sixth oldest series in Jump right now (and yes, the current lineup is notably newbie heavy) it has a certain level of cushion in the surveys from people who've gotten used to it and mention it, top spot or otherwise. It survived through a lot of purges by sheer luck, and got to sell steadily. Meanwhile, Candy Flurry, although it picked up as it went, started out feeling very, very unnecessary, with nothing to make it stand out as a battle manga. The candy theme is also a hard sell compared to MHA's superheroes or Chainsaw Man's grindhouse monster fights. Basically, some of this seems to be standard spirals. Success breeds success, and failure breeds failure, independent of narrative merit. Moving past speaking of the at risk to the dead proper, I think the failure of Nine Dragons is pretty easy to understand. It came in thinking it could go, at minimum, most of a year before forming the team. There's a reason most team sports manga start with something established. You want to be able to get to "real" games quickly. Instead, we spend two chapters early on getting a third player as a DH with no real baseball action. Combine that with fairly generic art, and it's no surprise that it ended early, even as the only pure spokon in Jump.
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Jul 4, 2021 23:58
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Electric Phantasm posted:Oh yeah since no one posted about it yet The bits where they talked about how nice the old lady was gave a tiny bit of meat to the whole "It's not about morality. It's about survival." talk from Grimm. As a werewolf among werewolves, she really was the nice old lady she acted like. It's just, you know. She was nice as a creature that lives to eat people. By human standards, less so.
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Jul 5, 2021 22:00
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Ethiser posted:Did the idea of Red Hood come before or after the author played Resident Evil Village? Full game for Village came out in May 2021, demoes came out in January. Meanwhile, Red Hood's first chapter was released as a one-shot in October 2020, in an issue of Jump with Chainsaw Man on the cover and the legendary hamburger chapter inside. So, yeah. Before.
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Jul 13, 2021 05:53
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TheKingofSprings posted:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-hP0uvOghnI&t=17 They'd have to bring Denji back if they wanted to get that job done.
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Jul 13, 2021 09:03
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Alacron posted:I swear I've read Look Back like 5 times today, it's so good. Yeah, it just reinforces that Fujimoto, despite the over-the-top grindhouse nature of his most famous stuff, is really good at character moments. It's all the more impressive considering how, in the Million Tag competition, he talked about how he mainly views characters as tools for the story.
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Jul 19, 2021 02:57
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cisneros posted:They should go all digital and not kill anyone imo Even digital kills titles on a regular basis. It's less competitive, since there's not a set pagecount to worry about, but if you can't get eyeballs or sell volumes, you still get canned. Meanwhile, the print magazine is an institution. Over a million and a half copies sell every week, coming to almost 500 million yen spent on Shonen Jump. Every week. That's over 20 billion yen a year. Now, a chunk of that goes to the stores, or gets eaten in the costs of printing, but it's still a massive amount of money. Enough to factor into any kind of long term plan. Better to keep both Jump and the website running in parallel, from a practical prospective.
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Jul 19, 2021 03:24
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ConanThe3rd posted:Still working on killing Print Jump by hating it to death for Red Sprite, Love Rush and Stealth Symphony. I think I'm up to random nosebleeds. I really don't see what anyone got out of Red Sprite. I read through it a while back, and it just felt mediocre at best, with a dull protagonist and an opening going through the motions rather than doing anything exciting.
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Jul 19, 2021 05:25
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CodfishCartographer posted:I think a problem for Candy Flurry is that Sakamoto does the comedy+action thing too, and seems way more popular. I hesitate to say Sakamoto does it better - they're definitely two different series with different feelings and styles. However they fill a very similar space, and if one were to be cut I doubt it'd be Sakamoto, unfortunately. I think a bigger problem is that Candy Flurry had a bad first chapter, and doesn't have a clear hook or a strong theme to make people try out a later chapter if they dropped out.
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Jul 20, 2021 10:02
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