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Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

prefect posted:

chef uses json for config files


:smithicide:

he said real development, not ruby

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Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Soricidus posted:

I didn't say that. I have used fp languages and am familiar with the advantages of linked lists in that context. and I brought up doing poo poo in the middle of the list as an example of when linked lists are appropriate, ie not for stacks.

my point, which you don't get to dismiss like that, is: if linked lists are the best stack implementation, why don't java, c++, etc. use them? hint: it's not because you're smarter than the experts who designed their libraries.

what implementation is significantly better for a pure stack (ie one that only implements push and pop and is never accessed in the middle) than a linked list

Arcsech fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jul 11, 2014

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

USSMICHELLEBACHMAN posted:

i dont think that making your stack implementation 'pure' is a goal when u make a programming language

i'm just spitballing here but i'd imagine that there are a lot of things you can do to optimize basic data structures even if you don't expose those details to the user

but i am a very bad programmer. possibly the worst

Oh yeah no by pure I meant that you only have to implement those two functions so it should allow you to do more under the hood optimization not less

Although I did mean if you don't want to preallocate a shitload of memory for a stack that may be tiny or might be huge. As an embedded developer I'd implement a stack as an array because I have to manage all the memory super tightly anyway but if you're not on a $0.25 uC you tend to use different techniques

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Shaggar posted:

its not even an argument, tabs are the only answer. but indenting is for readability, not control.

tabs are for indentation, spaces are for alignment. but thats too complicated for most people so welp

even if indentation is for readability your compiler/interpreter should tell you to gently caress off if your code isnt well-formatted, and every language should have a gofmt-type utility and require its use

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Bloody posted:

if your language name starts with "c" and has 3 or fewer characters in it you're probably fine.

coq

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Valeyard posted:

thanks for this. ive been shying away from seperating steps out, as I feel like it is not In The Spirit of functional programming. but that is a lot better

chugging along trying to use parsec now to parse fortan90 variable declarations

some people want concise conCISE CONCISE because it makes them feel clever and yeah haskell lets you do that really easily but it also makes for write-only code. definitely do separate stuff out if it makes it easier to understand, in any language

if you want to try to make stuff as compact as possible as a challenge then sure golf your heart out but if youre writing code that anyone else (including future you) well ever have to look at please leave the long version

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

apparently lua is the least angry-making programming language and visual basic is the most rage-inducing, followed closely by php

cobol, visual basic, fortran, and php are the most dread-inducing, d is the least

visual basic, cobol, php, and actionscript are the most embarassing languages, clojure, go, and ocaml are the least

so basically visual basic, php, and cobol are the worst programming languages, which everyone already knew

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Bloody posted:

it does poorly at that -> double negative. a little confusing to read.

yeah this could be phrased way better

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

more like dICK posted:

terrible programmer opinion: scala is real rough and somehow manages to have worse tools than clojure (clojure owns). gonna stop caring about scala

Use f#, it's kinda like dot net scala but with a less poo poo syntax and less bloat

Also has great tools cause you get to use visual studio

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

uncurable mlady posted:

the modern web browser is possibly the greatest runtime and presentation layer we've ever seen

this is true and also incredibly sad

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008
how is visual studio online for an idiot spare time asp.net-on-azure project that i want to keep organized because it may someday become a non-idiot public money making project (it probably wont)

e: also how lol-worthy is tfsvc vs. git? i know git well enough not to gently caress things up most of the time but id be down to use something better too

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Bloody posted:

idk download visual studio community edition and bask in the glory of visual studio?

no visual studio online is sort of like github + pivotal + build server + load testing + a bunch of other stuff, not like a cloud version of visual studio despite the confusing name. it is a thing you use alongside visual studio community edition or w/e

Shaggar posted:

the vs online team fortress server works well and is super easy 2 setup.

how is team fortress version control vs git was more what i was going for with that part

although itll just be me working on it at least for now so it probablyu doesnt matter at all

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Luigi Thirty posted:

trip report:

i drove to their office, it's a nice place in a modern office building about an hour away at rush hour, 45 minutes otherwise. one of those big fountains in the middle so the whole place smells like chlorine.

answered the dreaded whiteboard problem about recursive tree traversal. i was close with a little help but they seemed satisfied with my method (particularly impressed that I bothered defining what a node class was). the guy i talked to (their engineering manager) said close enough, just email him a solution by tomorrow. got shown around the office, talked about the job duties and future prospects, showed me some office amenities, there's a deli in the building, free snack bar, exercise machines, infinite soda/tea, etc. they were nice. went home and emailed them the solution. they emailed me back 15 minutes later saying they'd send me an offer letter in the mail. :toot:

grats. now

Captain Foo posted:

negotiate for more bucks

especially since willing to send you an offer that quickly

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008
being a terrible programming and having not used java since a college class yonks ago i always assumed a bean was the java equivalent of a gem or an egg or whatever but for java instead of a plang

it seems to fit the pattern:
a ruby gem
a python egg
a java bean

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008
Use SVN, use git, use mercurial, use whatever as long as you use some revision control that isn't this piece of poo poo we use for some stuff at work: http://www.truebluesoftware.com/

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

SYSV Fanfic posted:

Using C is a premature optimization.

Unless you are on a microcontroller this is probably true

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

MeruFM posted:

what does code first even mean

somehow transform your objects into database tables?

Yes

why bother designing your database when you can just write the same classes you would normally and have a Microsoft product magically turn it into a database, right?

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Luigi Thirty posted:

at least the guy says he has a lead on a position as a PHP developer (lol)

as much as we make fun of it php dev is better than retail

barely, because it at least gives you software dev experience

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Luigi Thirty posted:

mostly I'm afraid of PHP on a resume being like the university of phoenix on a resume and actively harming your chances of doing non-PHP things because you don't know anything that happened after 2000

any software experience is better than no software experience

if your only option is php, then do the php and write some junk in your spare time in something you like, chuck it up on github, and link to that on your resume when you go to look for a not-php job

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Luigi Thirty posted:

which javascript framework is the one that's totally rewritten every three months?

all of them

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

there's not gonna be any arguing.

your lawyer will call and they'll retract the offer lol

lol

nobody said have your lawyer call their lawyer. the opposite in fact:

hobbesmaster posted:

he said to get lawyer to explain it, don't pay the lawyer $texas/hoir to argue with their lawyer

mostly when you are looking for work, have already signed a noncompete, and want to know how to keep yourself from opening yourself up to a lawsuit. it's worth the small cost it takes to get a lawyer to read your contract to not have to bet on the fact that your former company's legal department wont be a giant collection of assholes

(every legal department ever is a giant collection of assholes)

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008
I would probably use emacs if there was a way to make scrolling with the mouse wheel not poo poo

Is there a way to make scrolling with the mouse wheel not poo poo?

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Dessert Rose posted:

what either one of them actually added over emacs or vim

1. Useful mouse support
2. Plug-ins in a language that is not lisp or whatever dumb garbage vim uses

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

emacs and gvim both have extensive mouse support

i have yet to find a way to make mousewheel scrolling not garbage in emacs at least

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

emacs will never, ever support anything but elisp, (hopefully) scheme, and (hopefully) common lisp. at least one of these languages is good. if you just can't do what you need to do in elisp, which sometimes happens, emacs has pretty good subprocess management, so you can boot an external process and talk to it. this is how e.g. emacs/java and emacs/scala integration works -- the java/scala engines execute in an external process w/ reflection to get the AST

vimscript is poo poo for idiots, there's no excuse made for that. it sucks and it needs to die. neovim is a fork attempting to replace vimscript with lua.

lisp is bad. all lisps are bad, and elisp is the worst of the lisps. lua is pretty okay so maybe that will be good

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

you just like the defaults better in ST

usable defaults is a meaningful advantage. not having to unbind literally every key combination and rebind them to something sane, as i did during the few months i used emacs, is a pretty big advantage

Arcsech fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Feb 6, 2015

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Bloody posted:

fpgas: not even once

Are you talking about vivado?

Vivado is total garbage for clowns but somehow is slightly less bad than what they used to have

I have heard tell that the Altera thing is somewhat better but I have not used it

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Bloody posted:

neither! shockingly!!

vivado does look like a circus but it does look better than ise i guess. also it has vivado hls which arouses me in uncomfortable ways

but no, the ide in question is neither xilinx nor altera

Huh ok. Yeah, vivado-the-compiler is pretty great in some areas and shockingly brain dead in others, but vivado-the-ide is all-around awful

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

duTrieux. posted:

hello folks

i've been slapping some poo poo together for work in javascript/jquery, and have also been mucking around with them outside of work to better familiarize myself.

javascript is awful, like, omg

javascript is v bad

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Luigi Thirty posted:

current job status: manager introduced me to my supervisor, left, came back, and berated her for 10 minutes for "slacking"

work there as long as you can stand and then use your experience to gtfo

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

LittleFuryThings posted:

it's garbage in DC for a developer. but hey, you're guaranteed a hefty 70K salary once you've been with the company for two years. So I'll be at entry level one day, hopefully. and maybe qualified to call myself a terrible programmer.

You will be laid off after one year and three hundred sixty four days.

If you have a degree or any sort of coding experience, you are getting hella taken advantage of. If not, suffer through until you can jump ship

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Necc0 posted:

actually i'm willing to bet fresh h1bs are paid better than that.

in dc in 2014, h1b workers with the job title "developer" were paid a hair under $75k on average: https://swizec.github.io/h1b-software-salaries/#2014-dc-developer

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Bhodi posted:

security holes are baked into the system; it's not really designed to be isolated from its base operating system. there's some retrofit work but the shared memory model makes it really hard, apparently

it's by all accounts neat, I keep meaning to try it but haven't bothered because vagrant is good enough and I'm all cloud these days anyway, I just spin up a real VM 99% of the time

5 years from now, software will be released as source, rpm, or docker file and all us SA's will be out of a job because you won't even care about the OS anymore! just stick it in your docker container ship.

No I think he meant the whole not checking signatures thing

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

fart simpson posted:

the worst part about haskell is that the default when you write "import Farts" is basically the equivalent of "from Farts import *"

this is far from the worst part about haskell

operator abuse is far worse

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008
woah julia looks pretty sick, i'll have to take a closer look next time i need to do something mathy

although honestly i'll probably just keep using f# and learn to use the R type provider because f# fully owns and nothing mathy i do requires good performance

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

uncurable mlady posted:

windows is actually really bad and .net is only good when you compare it to java

Windows I can go either way on but .net is The poo poo, especially when you use f# (tho c# is pretty decent too)

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

I'm leading a group on improving our interview process at work soon so seeing more like this and the post by the matasano guy on how they did theirs are super interesting.

The group I work for hires for entry level positions mostly so deciding based on projects they've already done isn't super practical all the time, but I'm pretty sure we're gonna do some kind of work sample thing.

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

comedyblissoption posted:

also the interviewer will require much more time investment per candidate

I'm not sure this is true when you consider that at many companies interviews are day-long ordeals anyway

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

gonadic io posted:

my nigga have you tried hoogle??

hoogle is neat but it doesnt solve haskell being a giant mess of unreadable operators

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

my stepdads beer posted:

everyone post ur blogs i want to read them thanks in advance

i have a blog but i havent written anything on it yet because of my impostor syndrome

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

kinda unrelated but is it just me or is the tooling around haskell pretty immature given how long the language has been around and how popular it is (relative to other small languages that is).

seems like emacs is the standard choice for editor/ide, which is fine. haskell-mode itself is pretty good, but once you start looking for more (autocompletion, import suggestions, type info etc.) it gets pretty janky. ghc-mod seems like the most mature and useful choice but it's pretty janky, doesn't currently work with GHC 7.10 and/or cabal 1.18+ (which is whatever, 7.10 just came out but cabal 1.20 has been out for a year now and it's pretty pushy about upgrading) and is maintained by like, one guy who is in school and has no time to devote to it. beyond that is poo poo that's even older, even less active, or more immature.

cabal itself also seems kinda janky. it has sandboxes which seem to work OK for the most part but the one time I tried to hack on a relatively non trivial it kinda blew up in ways that i'm too stupid and lazy to figure out.

so what gives? do srs haskellers just not give a poo poo about bells and whistles? welp, I've got my syntax highlighting and i'm good to go!

you are definitely right. honestly the one thing i really wanted when trying haskell was to be able to hover over something and have my editor tell me its type, but all the existing solutions for this are incredibly finnicky about ghc-mod/cabal/whatever versions and never have up-to-date instructions about how to get it all set up right

also cabal shits itself more often than it works ime, especially the dependency resolver. i dunno whether thats cabal's fault or package authors loving up their dependency specfications but its just another thing that ended up driving me away from haskell

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Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

giogadi posted:

Elm's syntax is almost exactly like Haskell's. If you don't like Haskell's syntax you won't like Elm, but besides syntax many people's beefs with Haskell come from (a) people's liberal use of complex structures from category theory, and (b) lazy evaluation being really confusing to reason about.

Elm addresses these two things by not having typeclasses and using eager evaluation. These are compromises of course, but the payoff is a vastly simpler language than Haskell, even with the syntactic similarities.

also signals are way easier to wrap your head around than haskell's io system, which helps a lot

elm may have typeclasses eventually if a good enough case can be made for it but the guy behind it is really skittish about adding them (understandably so)

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