Let's solve a 40 year old unsolved treasure hunt!

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Let's solve a 40 year old unsolved treasure hunt!

allta: Mar 28, 2011

If your new here scroll down to the second post :siren:

If you post a hint/clue/idea please in bold list the cask# its about at the top of the post, this way we can organize idea's alot more easily!

:siren:

We now have a not-dead wiki :siren:

Thank You Meat Street
You'll need to make an account to edit it though but it should eventually save you from having to read through all the thread and/or post idea's that have already been posted!

:siren:

Before you post anything read this post :siren:

Flewdefur posted:

Desperation and lack of progress have driven everyone to more and more radical solutions that may become too clever for our own good. It�s only natural that if we can�t find something obvious we look for something more obscure. I want to help lay down some guiding principles for anyone starting the hunt or laying down theories.

1. The best clue is a treasure found and we have two. If you haven�t started by looking at those, then you�re at a serious disadvantage.

2. Locations of the last two were parks, near walls or barriers, buried approximately 3.5 feet deep. The cask is very small, and the North American continent is not. If you don�t have a terrific idea of where it is, don�t bother breaking ground.

3. Don�t put too much stake in a theory unless it has resulted in treasure. It doesn�t matter if the theory was made by someone who spent a decade searching, it can still be total bunk. You can evaluate the evidence they used. For example, I can see that while many have pointed to Golden Gate Park, the only evidence is that the dress sort of resembles the shape. The shape is a rectangle, and it�s not a great match. Unless there�s some other compelling reason, that�s a theory without much weight. The Fort Sumter map on the other hand has the weight of a thousand elephants.

4. The two successful treasures both have been found entirely by clues that are one layer deep. There has always been some sort of silhouette of a recognizable building or object. In fact, there were several in each image. These are images of objects you can find and point to that match the images exactly. Sometimes it includes statues that are not even very well obscured. There has not yet been a clue which has relied on a ton of depth.

5. Not all theories are created equal. Simple and direct is better than a convoluted mess. Theories relying on fewer layers and more direct meanings are better. Theories that are deep and convoluted sound fantastic and brilliant and can lure us in, but that does not mean they are good in the context of this puzzle. Evidence points to the contrary.

Example
Good Theory: That outline is an exact match of this streetlight.

Bad Theory: The eleven moons in the San Francisco picture represent Apollo 11. The president at the time was Nixon. Nixon went to China, and the opera house in San Francisco once had a play called Nixon in China. The treasure is at the opera house.

5. A valuable clue has to be distinct and eminently recognizable as such. Circles, rectangles, spirals, or pillars are not distinct. There are billions of them in any city. There are billions of things named after Lincoln or Twain, and even more things that caught their attention at some point.

6. The picture is the key to it all. In both of the found treasures, the evidence pointing to the location was almost entirely in the picture. To stay on the right path, you should not even look at the poems until there is substantial evidence from the picture relating a few landmarks or objects.

7. The poems are almost more of a fine tuning to the treasure location that uses descriptions of objects and things in the immediate vicinity. They do not tend to be deep, broad clues. These are poetic or somewhat abstract representations of specific concrete objects.

8. Check the date. If it wasn�t around in 1980, then that�s your cue to let it be.

9. Check reality. The author wasn�t some sort of brilliant puzzle making genius who wanted to make the most radically difficult and clever puzzles in the universe. In one of his poems he said �L sits and left beyond his shoulder� and L was used to refer to Lincoln. That�s not clever; it�s really sort of lazy. And remember he also didn�t have Google satellite imagery and an absolute knowledge of the history of every city he visited.

10. In thirty years, a lot can change and has changed. The best clues may have been destroyed or moved.

Note: Feel free to correct any of my assumptions here.

Need something to do? here you go!
TO DO List
1. Confirm all the locations with clues from the pictures (IE the coordinates for new Orleans in the cask 7 picture).
-Still need proof for 1,2,3,6,7,8,9,10,11,12.
2. Organize goons who live nearby to go and take scouting pictures to help either confirm or deny our current theories.
- I'll make a list of all the theory locations and link it here.
- Link will be here
3. Begin ruling out theories that don't fit so we can better focus our efforts.
- There will be a theory list in each summary post.
4. Work on getting permissions to dig once we've confirmed the park and/or general area for the cask.
- We wont be able to do this until we have a reasonable confirmed working theory for a location.
- Getting permission to dig is also key.
5. Help convert data from the Q4T forums to ours and help narrow down theories.
- If you need access I have PM's.
- There are 10 years worth of posts so the more people willing to help with this the easier it will be!
6. Mock up the photo's and dissect for clues.
- If you need an example of what I'm talking about HERE is one.
- You can cross post from the wiki, there's a few of them on there but not one for every picture.
- We still need them from casks: 2,3,6,7,8,9,10,11,12
7. Match all of the verses to each of the pictures.
- There are still a few mis-matched and a few where we just don't plain know.
8. Obtain better resolution picture scans from the book.
- A few goons have book copies ordered so I'm in no hurry for this one.
9. Figure out a reasonable method for Determining if a casket is there that's not "dig a hole here".
10.Find a cask.
-Literally if we can find just 1 it will be a huge success, out of the 10 left 1 of them has to be still accessible...right?

Cask summary posts(clickable as soon as I finish submitting them):
Cask 1
Cask 2
Cask 3
Cask 6
Cask 7
Cask 8
Cask 9
Cask 10
Cask 11
Cask 12

allta fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jul 1, 2013

# ¿ May 31, 2013 06:15

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 05:13

allta: Mar 28, 2011

In 1982 author Byron Preiss, working with a few others published this little gem.

The Secret: A Hidden Treasure
At some point prior to this he secretly traveled around the united states, to 12 locations, and at each location he visited he buried a casket of sorts.

Shortly after the books hit the shelf he proudly boasted, and spread the word that he had hidden 12 caskets in the ground around the united states, and that each casket contained a key which opened a safety deposit box at a Bank in NewYork City. The box contained one of 12 gemstones, one for each of the 12 riddles to be solved.

Originally he'd though that the riddles were way too easy, that they would be solved within a month and that no one would buy his book anymore because there would be no reason to! He was wrong.

To this day only 2 have been found, one in 1984 and another in 2004. That means there are 10 more buried in various places around the united states

credit to the wiki

These locations are only approximate
Byron didn't write the book himself. He hired 2 National Lampoon editors that covered the parody and story portion of the book, and then an artist to do the 12 pictures. He wrote the 12 riddles that pair with the pictures to give the location to the casks himself, which means he was the only one to know the full locations to each cask. Even years after the fact, people who somehow rediscovered the treasure hunt asking for the locations, which he refused to give up.

Unfortunately, Byron died in 2005, in an automobile accident and a few years after his publishing company went into bankruptcy and the contents of the safety deposit box, they had been paying to keep there for all those years, were auctioned off.

So If the gems are gone, whats the point of all of this?
Aside from the bragging rights of solving a 3-decade old mystery that other people have spent hours only fantasizing about, the casks themselves were valued at 500 in 1982, plugging that into an inflation calculator we get the rough approximate value of the casks at around 1200 usd. Each. They also look pretty cool!

Each cask has a clock of sorts on the inside of the lid, the time its set to refers to the month of the year, and the corresponding gem the puzzle was supposed to be rewarded with. In this case it's 5, or may, which would yield an emerald.

So if all this started in 1982 why has there only been 2 of these things found?
There have been several attempts by various online groups to track down the locations of the remaining 10 casks, but only one of them in 2004 was able to find the second ever cask and then the board, from what it seems, slowly died out. There is also a wiki that I'm trying not to barrow too heavily from while I wait for a response from the webmaster. The wiki was started 8 years ago, but has all but died, likely form the lack of support, which seems to be a common thing with this whole treasure hunt. Knock on wood I guess.

On top of all of that, the internet didn't exist in 1982, the contest hardly got an publicity as it is, and Byron never expected it to go on for longer than a month.

So, how does this work?
There are 10 pictures that still need solving. Each one and the accompanying riddle are, together, a map that will lead to the cask location, here is where we run into our first issue. Things have changed considerably in the 3 decades sense the treasure hunt began. When Byron was designing this he didn't expect it to last that long and as such its likely that many of the clues from the riddle may very well be a thing of the past.

The past 2 casks were buried in parks, so for the time being, I'm going to assume that the rest are as well, or you know, at the very least something that was a park 30 years ago.

I'd also like to start an irc and/or not dead wiki for this, but I know next to nothing about setting up or maintaining either so if you do, feel free to PM me, or email me at alltasa@yahoo.com

Information gathered will get updated in a text document for the time being until I find a better/more permanent method for organizing thoughts/idea's/solutions. I'll also post and update a summary post every so often so we don't go in circles.

If you live near/can and don�t mind going to potential locations for picture taking/reference by all means post in the thread and I'll start assembling a list of who is available to go where so were not scrambling after solving something to get to the location.

So let's take a look at one of the examples so we can see what were up against:
Every picture has a number of things in it that are supposed to, when paired with the verse, lead you to the location of the cask. This the the 2004 cask find:

As mentioned above, they also contain a verse(riddle) which we know and in most cases can connect it to a picture but there are still a few that don't appear to have an apparent link, but more on that later.

This is the verse(4) that lead to the cask:
Beneath two countries
As the road curves
In a rectangular plot
Beneath the tenth stone
From right to left
Beneath the ninth row from the top
Of the wall including small bricks
Seven steps up you can hop
From the bottom level
Socrates, Pindar, Apelles
Free speech, couplet, birch
To find casque's destination
Seek the columns
For the search.

Here is the story from 2004 and it explains pretty much everything in the op to this point, think of it as a tldr. It also goes into the specifics of the guy who apparently spent nearly 2 decades searching for a cask.

Anyways, there are clues from the photos, both latitude and longitude and specific clues to the location as well, the verse is the second part meant to zero in on the location.

An interesting note is that sense the casks are ceramic metal detectors cant pick them up, and most of these places are parks so permission might potentially be needed unless you can be persuasive enough to inform the police officers that are asking you why your digging holes in the middle of a city park with a better answer than �a treasure hunt�

This particular cask was found in Cleveland. In the Cleveland cultural gardens. And below is a rough put-together of the notes/clues found in the image that lead him to the cask.

I apologize for the poor quality, I tried combining the fragments from the magazine and apparently there different sizes. If anyone wants to take a better attempt at it I'll swap them out.

Well now that you have a rough idea of the sort of thing were doing I'll post the rest of the pictures and the verse that is supposed to match it!

Cask 1:

The location for this one is San Francisco. The verse for this one is unknown so check the unmatched verse at the bottom and see if there's any way to connect it!

Cask 2:

The location for this one is Charleston, SC
The verse associated is either 5 or 6 (see the list at the bottom)

Cask 3:

The location for this one is thought to be, Roanok island.
Verse 11
Pass two friends of octave
In December
Ride the man of oz
To the land near the window
There's a road that leads to
Dark forest
Where white is in color
With two maps
After circle and square
In July and August
A path beckons
To mica and driftwood
Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing
Look north at the wing
And dig
To achieve
By dauntless and inconquerable
Determination
Your goal.

Cask 4:
SEE OP

Cask 5:
This is the only other cask that has been found. It was found in Grant Park, in Chicago.
Here is the associated picture:

verse 12
Where M and B are set in stone
And to Congress, R is known
L sits and left
Beyond his shoulder
Is the Fair Folks'
Treasure holder
The end of ten by thirteen
Is your clue
Fence and fixture
Central too
For finding jewel casque
Seek the sounds
Of rumble
Brush and music
Hush.

Cask 6:

The location is thought to be Saint Augustine, FL
Verse 9
The first chapter
Written in water
Near men
With wind rose
Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
At the base of a tall tree
You can still hear the honking
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
Stars move by day
Sails pass by night
Even in darkness
Like moonlight in teardrops
Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls.

Cask 7:

The location for this cask is thought to be, New Orleans.
Verse is 2 or 7, see below.

Cask 8:

The location for this cask is thought to be Houston.
Verse 1
Fortress north
Cold as glass
Friendship south
Take your task
To the number
Nine eight two
Through the wood
No lion fears
In the sky the water veers
Small of scale
Step across
Perspective should not be lost
In the center of four alike
Small, split,
Three winged and slight
What we take to be
Our strongest tower of delight
Falls gently
In December night
Looking back from treasure ground
There's the spout!
A whistle sounds.

Cask 9:

The location for this cask is either, Montreal or possibly Saint Louis. This is easily the hardest puzzle. The pucture is vague and it is unknown which verse aligns with the picture.

Cask 10:

The Location for this cask is thought to be Milwaukee
Verse 8
View the three stories of Mitchell
As you walk the beating of the world
At a distance in time
From three who lived there
At a distance in space
From woman, with harpsichord
Silently playing
Step on nature
Cast in copper
Ascend the 92 steps
After climbing the grand 200
Pass the compass and reach
The foot of the culvert
Below the bridge
Walk 100 paces
Southeast over rock and soil
To the first young birch
Pass three, staying west
You'll see a letter from the country
Of wonderstone's hearth
On a proud, tall fifth
At its southern foot
The treasure waits.

Cask 11:

The location for this cask is thought to be, Boston.
Verse 3
If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
A green tower of lights
In the middle section
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
With metal walls
Face the water
Your back to the stairs
Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free.

Cask 12

The location of this cask is thought to be New York
Verse 10
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
In summer
You'll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man's soil
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
As you might have noticed in the verses there are several spelling errors, I figured they were important so I left them in, and I did my best to preserve the original spacing.

Not used/Not known verse:

Verse 2
At the place where jewels abound
Fifteen rows down to the ground
In the middle of twenty-one
From end to end
Only three stand watch
As the sound of friends
Fills the afternoon hours
Here is a sovereign people
Who build palaces to shelter
Their heads for a night!
Gnomes admire
Fays delight
The namesakes meeting
Near this site.

Verse 5
Lane Two twenty two
You'll see an arc of lights
Weight and roots extended
Together saved the site
Of granite walls
Wind swept halls
Citadel in the night
A wingless bird ascended
Born of ancient dreams of flight
Beneath the only standing member
Of a forest
To the south
White stone closest
At twelve paces
From the west side
Get permission
To dig out.

Verse 6
Of all the romance retold
Men of tales and tunes
Cruel and bold
Seen here
By eyes of old
Stand and listen to the birds
Hear the cool, clear song of water
Harken to the words:
Freedom at the birth of a century
Or May 1913
Edwin and Edwina named after him
Or on the eighth a scene
Where law defended
Between two arms extended
Below the bar that binds
Beside the long palm's shadow
Embedded in the sand
Waits the Fair remuneration
White house close at hand.

Verse 7
At stone wall's door
The air smells sweet
Not far away
High posts are three
Education and Justice
For all to see
Sounds from the sky
Near ace is high
Running north, but first across
In jewel's direction
Is an object
Of Twain's attention
Giant pole
Giant step
To the place
The casque is kept.

# ¿ May 31, 2013 06:15

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Well the wiki is officially dead by the looks of it, I've given the webmaster a decent amount of time to get back to me and he hasn't. Truthfully there isn't much on there that we couldn't figure out in about an hours work, so I'll just improvise a bit.

Here is are all the notes/mock up's of the pictures based on what we know so far. If anything is missing just let me know!

Cask 1

-37 and 38 are that lat.
-122 and 123 long.
-For sure this location is in the golden gate park we just need to narrow down where!
-There's probably something with the moons.
-I'm going to move verse 7 into the second post for cask 1 because it sounds like it fits, let me know though!
-Can someone more familiar with the park(assuming verse 7 is correct) help narrow it down a bit?

Velvet Sparrow posted:

Verse #7 may go with San Francisco. It mentions 'Twain's attention' with 'Twain' capitalized (Mark Twain spent time in San Francisco), that may refer to Calaveras County from his story, 'The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County'. The 'giant pole' may refer to Coit Tower.

In the picture for San Francisco, the post that the rose sits on looks like the shape of something--the Coit Tower or a cannon, possibly referring to The Presidio...?

-Is there possibly a hint or clue around the writting/story within 'The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County'
-Any of the stuff referenced appear around Golden Gate Park?
-Are there any goons willing to go to golden gate park this weekend and take some pictures(lots of pictures?)

gogobunny posted:

Anyway, I got really fixated on that "sweet smell" clue, and the first things that came to mind were either the rose garden in Golden Gate Park, or Ghirardelli Square. Ghirardelli Square has the added bonus of being right across the water from Alcatraz, since I do think that's supposed to be Alcatraz in the background there, plus it's close to several parks. Golden Gate park kinda fits with the Asian motif of the illustration, though, since it's got a Japanese garden and a Chinese style gazebo. Most of the other clues in the verse I have no idea about.

(Golden Gate Park conformation)

auPHE posted:

This is so fascinating. I live nowhere near any of the locations, and I'm poo poo at solving location-based riddles, but I'll be following along!

As far as this goes, I think that Ghirardelli Square makes a huge amount of sense--in addition to having a view of Alcatraz (which many were reminded of by the window in the picture), there's an urban legend (that even I heard about on a short trip there) saying that inmates of Alcatraz could, on particularly windy days, smell chocolate across the water from the square. So I would say it's likely that #1 is buried in either Fort Mason Green or SF Maritime National Historic Park, both located nearby Ghirardelli Square and with a view of Alcatraz.

(location speculation)

Occams taser posted:

Verse 6 is for the one in San Francisco.

(i'm in rhode island, so no chance of me going to look for it, but i digress)

Using the discovered casks as a baseline, it can be assumed that the image COULD include a hidden latitude and longitude for the city. Reading down the column of figures on the right of the dress, we see:

I
II
II

The finger of her right hand divides the boxes below into:

3
7

which results in the coordinates 122 and 37, which are coincidentally the coordinates for San Francisco.

Of all the romance retold
Men of tales and tunes
Cruel and bold
Seen here
By eyes of old

This is a paraphrase of the introduction to Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson, which suggests that it is also in SF, as the RLS memorial is in portsmouth square, chinatown (doesn't the oriental looking woman and the dragon in the picture make sense now?).

Stand and listen to the birds
Hear the cool, clear song of water

This could be a description of the spot by the fountain.

Harken to the words:
Freedom at the birth of a century
Or May 1913

These lines recall Lincoln�s Emancipation Proclamation; its legislation to free slaves at the beginning
of a century, and its 50th anniversary celebration in 1913. Looking at the map of Portsmouth square, there's a "Clay st" and a man named Cassius Clay helped draft the proclamation, and assuming this is relative, it could be referencing Clay St.

Edwin and Edwina named after him

The actor Edwin Booth (yes john wilkes booth's brother), whose daughter Edwina was named after him, is commemorated on a nearby plaque at 440 Bush St (the site of the old California Theater). INCIDENTALLY. there's also a plaque commemorating Robert Louis Stevenson (on the house where he lived.)

Or on the eighth a scene
Where law defended

If you follow Clay west, you come to Lafayette Tennis court (�a scene where law defended�) on Octavia (which means eighth).

Embedded in the sand
Waits the Fair remuneration

I'm assuming this is a literal hint as to where the cask is buried.

White house close at hand.

I'm assuming there's a white house nearby.

Did some quick googling to find most of this stuff out, but it makes a shitload of sense.

shoemonkey posted:

Edit: This goes with what occam's taser said above.

From the wiki mentioned in the OP I found this.

http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc/thesecret/sftrail.pdf

This guy seems to think verse 6 goes with San Francisco, and has a very well thought out explanation pointing to some tennis courts by Lafayette park. I might go check out that park and look around.

That being said, I think it could be verse 7 instead

High posts are three
Education and Justice
For all to see

This part kind of sounds like Civic Center, which has City, State and Federal buildings all next to each other, as well as a law school and a court house.

Is an object
Of Twain's attention
Giant pole
Giant step

Could refer to the Dewey statue in union park, which commemorates the Spanish-American War. Mark Twain was pretty pissed about the Spanish American war, so that could be the connection. There's also a Mark Twain hotel nearby.

Occams taser posted:

this......

- picture of where it's supposed to be

- picture of the surrounding streets (gough street is right near by), the "white" house is actually ON gough street, it looks like.

M42 posted:

Bad news, looks like Lafayette Park in SF was renovated starting last May. Apparently it's not even open to the public yet, opens next weekend.

Cask 2

Adiabatic posted:

Charleston

Fort Sumter?

Cask 3

Strongylocentrotus posted:

Well, here's how I just (as in minutes ago) reached my conclusion about Roanoke being the locale of #3:

Painting on left, satellite shot and map of Roanoke on right.

As for exactly where the cask can be found on the island, that's going to be a lot tougher to work out. Going by what the OP said about these things tending to be in parks, that narrows the possibilities down a bit, and like I said in my first post, my kneejerk reaction is to think it's the Elizabethan Gardens.

Premeditated Toast posted:

I grew up on the Outer Banks, and I think they may in fact be referring to it STARTING at Roanoke Island:

"Verse 11
Pass two friends of octave (The towns of Manteo and Wanchese on the island)
In December
Ride the man of oz (Go over the Washington Baum Bridge)
To the land near the window
There's a road that leads to
Dark forest (Oceanside Drive to Nagshead Woods, our local "haunted forest" park. Oh and look, the armor in the picture is sporting the helmet of an old horse's head!)"

The rest would then seem to indicate specific directions inside the park perhaps (which has indeed changed a lot since the 80's). I don't live there anymore but my sister does, maybe I can get her to scope it out. It could be the Elizabethen Gardens, but the "Ride the Man of Oz" line makes me think otherwise.

Sham I Am posted:

That the first line could be referring to Octave Chanute, who was friends with and helped out the Wright brothers. That would start you at kill devil hills. If that is the case I think you'd be going across the Baum bridge the opposite way than you are saying here, right? If you take The Window in "the land near The Window" to mean the Lost Colony Amphitheater, then it could still be the Elizabethan gardens.

ETA: and this line �From this hallowed ground they walked away through the dark forest and into history.� is apparently on a plaque at the entrance of the gardens.

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang posted:

Well spank me silly: this is the lat and Long of Louis Armstrong park:
29.962708,-90.069019

Occams taser posted:

Cask 3
Verse 11

Look north at the wing
And dig

Cask 4
Cask 5
Cask 6

Way Strong Pimphand posted:

So this thread has officially eaten up a majority of my night, but I think I may have finally gotten somewhere with Cask #6.

According to the wiki, the coordinates within the image seem to be placed at 41 or 44 and 82 or 83. These coordinates don't exactly lead to anything significant. I analyzed the picture a bit more and, for me, the coordinates seem to place the cask somewhere in the Florida Keys at 24, 83. More specifically the coordinates lead to Dry Tortugas National Park which, shockingly enough, was first discovered by Ponce de Leon. People can't seem to disassociate de Leon with St. Augustine, which I'm assuming is why people think the cask is hidden somewhere in that area.

The verse containing information about water most likely references the park's nature, which is comprised primarily of water. According to the wiki, the park has been heavily associated with sunken treasure. And drat that tree in the picture can be found everywhere in official park photos.

http://www.nps.gov/akr/photosmultimedia/photogallery.htm?id=89404A1F-1DD8-B71C-07C25C8631876288

And while I might be going mad, seeing as it's 4 AM and I'm analyzing a 30 year old buried treasure map, I swear it looks like a turtle and tern appear within the image as well. (both of which are tied to regional wildlife)

Stars move by day
Sails pass by night

Could this be referencing transportation to and from the island? During the daytime: planes (stars move by day) and at night: boats. (sails pass by night) I LITERALLY HAVE NO loving IDEA

I'll work on this more tomorrow.

Cask 7
-Assuming verse 7 aligns with cask 1 in San Francisco, that would mean the verse for this cask would have to be verse 2.
-Assuming verse 2 and assuming Katrina didn't destroy it can we narrow it down a bit more?

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang posted:

As for Cask 7, could Preservation in the picture mean Preservation Hall in New Orleans? Located at 726 St Peter St. I'm a bit stumped because verse 7 seems to go better with it than verse 2.

Huh, so typing in that address gets me this latitude and longitude: 29.958199,-90.065488 All numbers that match

Maguro posted:

I would assume New Orleans is verse 7, and that it's hidden somewhere in Armstrong Park. It's the closest "big" park to the river (except for Audobon Park uptown). And because of the mask imagery and the word "Preservation" I think it's close to the French Quarter.

EDIT: Preservation hall is at 726 st. peter St.

I bet the jewel is hidden on the corner of st. peter and N rampart., right where the park starts.

"Preservation Hall. Now that's where you'll find all of the greats." � Louis Armstrong

GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:

Good catch on the tree branches, I also see a "95" or a "957" in the branches just to the right of the ball pillar.

Edit: The park is at Longitude -95.3, but the latitude is 29.7. I'm not sure what the 96 symbolizes.

Cask 8

Disco Nixon posted:

I think the Houston one is referring to Hermann Park. Hermann is the only park with a train which matches up with the riddle. It also has a pond with a fountain that shoots water up. The zoo is nearby, and I think it used to have columns like that around the entrance, but it's gone through many remodels. I can't find a picture of it from the 80s unfortunately. I'm not sure where in the park the treasure would be, I don't know it that well, and don't live in Houston anymore so other Houston goons would have to investigate further.

Edit: I found train 982!!! I think it MUST be in Hermann park.

-This is a distinct possibility, and it would be nice if someone could clarify this!
-Hermann park issues

Nathilus posted:

Good luck finding anything from the 80s by landmark in Hermann Park, though. That's assuming it hasn't been destroyed or made inaccessible by the renovations that have occurred in the meantime. Some kind of archived visual record of the park during that period would be the best you could hope for, and given the area's size I doubt it would be complete. Even learning if that sort of record exists would involve bull-rushing your way past Harris County bureaucracy or having county archives access via professional means. Or, this being Houston we're talking about, perhaps via the Good Old Boy And Money network.

GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:

Are there animals on the monument? From the Houston picture I'm noticing that the camel pillar doesn't have a shadow.

Also could the line

Our strongest tower of delight
Falls gently
In December night

Be referring to where the shadow of the central tower falls pointing to where to dig? Like some National Treasure poo poo?

Raccoon Leaf posted:

I'm willing to bet that the tower (Pioneer Monument) has something to do with those lines, but here's a picture showing that things have been paved over and that the fountains are a new addition.

If only we could find more old pictures...

-Can anyone in the area or with time on their hands scour for some Older photos?

Raccoon Leaf posted:

Houston, Hermann Park.

(more park pictures)

GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:

Here are all the numbers I can find in the Houston picture so far. 30, -95 are really close to the Houston area so I think we're on the right track. Clicking straight on McGovern Lake at http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html doesn't really help with any of the other numbers.

Looking at this aerial view of McGovern Lake, I was trying to find a leaf that looked similar to it for confirmation. Too bad pretty much every leaf looks similar to it. The Pioneer's Monument is at the right hand side of the picture.

aricoarena posted:

It also looks to me like there is a 2 under that 4.

I'm interested in this one because I'm going to Boston this weekend, and I have an idea. Granted I've never been there before and don't know much about the city. Just going from the Verse, if the MIT Green building is the green tower of lights you could stand facing the water with the steps of Morss hall at your back. Morss Hall's address is 142, but I'm only confident that there are a 4 and a 2 in the picture, and that's really the only relation I could find to it. On second though there are balls on top of the Green Building, I'm having trouble finding out when they were put on the building.

Street view of the steps to Morss Hall https://maps.google.com/maps?q=mit+green+building&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&ei=EM2oUcTJOrXA4API-4H4Bw&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAg

Picture of Green Building Looking kind of tower-ish with balls on top.

Cask 9

ChesterJT posted:

Seems really clear from that wiki that #9 is St Louis and Verse #2 would go with it referring to the Jewel Box in Forest Park.

MassaShowtime posted:

I'm pretty sure the Montreal one is somewhere in Fletcher's Field or at the base of Mount Royal if its paired with Verse 2. The image has the Montreal Flower in it, refers to Pie IX station (the square with PX1), and if you count that to the end of the green line (21 stops) you get off basically at Mount Royal. The Mount Stephen club has the same weird statue as on the pope dude as well which is right outside the same station. The three stand watch could refer to the three peaks, and the sound of friends in the afternoon would be the tam tam players that surround the George Etienne Cartier statue. The palace could refer to the Crystal Palace that was in Fletcher's Field. I just can't figure out what the gnomes and fays are about but its been a while since I've been there.

-Cask 9 is very vague, it could be either at this point im just going to leave both here.

stab posted:

not really possible for the 21 stop thing as you need to transfer at berri for that and technically it can go in any direction. the gnomes thing might have something to do with la parc olympique or botanical gardens, who had a gnomes display in 1983.

(more speculation)

Tesa Fox posted:

Hi Just thought I'd drop a note saying that I full support this but will probably not be able to help much sadly. I will say that I'm more inclined to think the Montreal / St. Louis in in St. Louis as otherwise it would be the only one outside of the US. not much reason I know, just my gut feeling on it.

Also I'm going to see if I can find out if my family has any 1980's pictures of these areas though I doubt since we weren't traveling a lot then. Might be a good idea for anyone with family in those areas in or with families traveling in the 80's to see if we can get some old photo's of those areas.

Cask 10

Abugadu posted:

More info on the Milwaukee one:

http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc/thesecret/milwaukee.pdf

Will transcribe when I get a chance. And thanks!

Neutrino posted:

I don't think the interpretation of Mitchell is correct. I would guess the Domes - Mitchell Park.

(More Speculation)
Cask 11

Reciprocator posted:

Green tower of lights in the middle section - The Green Monster at Fenway Park
"Feel at home" - Reference to "Dirty Water" by the Standells?
Eighteenth day, Twelfth hour, lit by lamplight - Paul Revere at midnight before the battle of Lexington and Concord (April 19th 1775)
You can also easily see the letters (the large S on woven into the design on the woman's skirt). I'm not sure if that's a b at the top of the circular stone arch or a flag.
Does her hair show the outline of the waterfront? Not sure.
The gem is an emerald - the emerald necklace series of parks in Boston

It also looks like that might be a tiny shamrock inside the fairy's wings.

Edit: Also, check out the (Boston) Globe helpfully included in the image.

-stuff to consider for boston:

got dat wmd posted:

If that Boston location really is in Boston, I don't see it existing anymore because of the Big Dig. All them green and tower things make me think of the torn down elevated T and 'colosseum' possibly being the old Boston Garden, which is now a parking light. Even Fenway is under construction right now, so who knows.

Rondette posted:

Ok, I think cask 11 is possibly in COPLEY SQUARE

If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon

Going by that Lemontiger's reasoning RE the names above the library

Thucydides is above Xenophon- posibly meaning North?

Take five steps
In the area of his direction
A green tower of lights
In the middle section

I don't know

Near Those
Who pass the coliseum

[i]With metal walls
Just next to Cobley Square.
Face the water

[i]Your back to the stairs
Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see

Boston Library. And Stairs.

Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free.

...look who painted Paul Revere......????!?!?!

Possible clues from the painting
The building next to the library could pass for a stylised version of what is on that box she's holding..

OOh and look, that cuff is also suspiciously like a bit of the road next to the library

The Falcon could refer to the 'Black Falcon Cruise Terminal' which is nearby.

...there is also a small fountain and grassy area inside the library that might have something to do with it? That square at the top of the arch is bothering me.

Does that top square represent the library court?

Anyway I am in the UK and have looked at all this with Google maps and stuff so I don't know....it all seems quite plausible to me. From what I've read Copley Square has had a lot of refurbishing done so the casket (if there at all) may be under concrete by now.

M42 posted:

Oh, also, regarding Boston - I lived there since 99 and they haven't done anything to the copley square park since at least then. However, I wouldn't recommend someone go dig around and look suspicious in that area for a long time.

Cask 12

SteeVeeDee posted:

For the new york one: The Bird in the illustration, I think, is an eagle ornament from the Chrystler Building, which could be the "gray giant" referred to in the verse. However, the lower left panel also shows something like rectangular monolith, which means the "gray giant" could also be one of the old World Trade Towers (previously the grayest and squarest of all buildings in New York).

Edit: The Island of B could be Staten Island.

(more specualation)

Pepslexic posted:

Seems to be what makes these so tricky, so many interpretations. I'm getting a Queens vibe from this. For one, Staten Island would never be north unless your referring to Grant's Tomb. However the Broad Channel Island is north of Jamaica in queens, which would be the
"Cars abound
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies natives"
Queens is also full of Greek Orthadox, with the only church being St. Demetrios south of the botanical gardens. I'd assume the grey arms would be part of the World's Fair exhibit left over, but kinda eh on that.

100YrsofAttitude posted:

The Indies mention in the New York riddle made me think Jamaica, Queens for two reasons. First, the real Jamaica is in the West Indies and second the name of the area in Queens is actually comes from an indigenous (Indian in less pc terms) for Beaver. I'm trying to figure out the Island of B but I don't see why it'd be Staten Island.

If I was still in Connecticut I would've totally gone to NYC for this but I'm too far at the moment.

Just previewed and I agree with Pepslexic

Dreddlocks posted:

I'm probably totally off the mark but perhaps the New York verse could refer to somewhere around the Verrazano-Narrows bridge? It extends over a slender (narrow) path. The bridge is supported by two massive grey towers. Giovanni Verrazano explored the West Indies. If you look north you would see the Manhattan island? Maybe that's the isle of B ?

e: Maybe Fort Wadsworth?

Kingnothing posted:

If we go by the park theory....

There are lots of arches here!

Washington Square park is just about the most famous arched park in the City.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Square_Park

It also happens to have a very famous tree (one of the oldest in NYC) that has a branch hanging out over a small side path.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangman%27s_Elm

"Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path"

The entire park (especially near that tree) is encircled by fairly heavily trafficked roads.

"In summer You'll often hear a whirring sound Cars abound"

Oh, I almost forgot! The park used to be a burial ground, thought to be a native American burial ground.

"Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak"

I haven't gotten a chance to look more closely at the arch, but I bet if this is the place some of the art would be referenced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Square_Arch

I do live right near this park. So if anyone gets ideas, I can hop on over.

Edit:

This looks suspiciously like the three towers in the tiny image near the top...

There's also a very popular fountain that people like to go into during the summer.

Oyak posted:

That was an interesting idea for Verse 10...personally, I think the New York box is in Battery Park for a few reasons: one is that it was in the shadow of the World Trade Center (the grey giant), and the other is that it's next to the American Indian Museum (the reference to the Indians). Not quite sure how to place the box now that the WTC has been gone for 10 years, though. Also, if you look North from Battery Park, you will see Brooklyn (the Isle of B?).

Kingnothing posted:

While Brooklyn is on an island, it is not an island by itself. That would be Long Island.

But..

There does seem to be a small island located off the coast near battery park that is part of Brooklyn.

It's called Governor's Island. The Battery Park tunnel runs right next to it.

Edit: Well according to Google Maps the address is in brooklyn, but according to wikipedia it's part of Manhattan.

And if it was supposed to be the WTC, wouldn't it be grey giants?

Verse 2
-It's a distinct possibility the either Cask 9(Montreal) or Cask 7(New Orleans) line up with this verse. Can any goons confirm one or the other? Also if cask 7 isn't Verse 2 what's the 3rd possibility?

allta fucked around with this message at 23:22 on May 31, 2013

# ¿ May 31, 2013 06:16

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Disco Nixon posted:

I think the Houston one is referring to Hermann Park. Hermann is the only park with a train which matches up with the riddle. It also has a pond with a fountain that shoots water up. The zoo is nearby, and I think it used to have columns like that around the entrance, but it's gone through many remodels. I can't find a picture of it from the 80s unfortunately. I'm not sure where in the park the treasure would be, I don't know it that well, and don't live in Houston anymore so other Houston goons would have to investigate further.

Edit: I found train 982!!! I think it MUST be in Hermann park.

If you could, and take a bunch of pictures, that would be great! I'll work this afternoon on narrowing it down a bit as well.

stabbity posted:

I'm in Milwaukee and my running route takes me past these locations all the time. I'm totally willing to go check places out if people figure out more (I'm terrible at riddles).

Pictures would be nice once we pin down the location a bit more!

Raccoon Leaf posted:

I live really close to Hermann Park, and I don't start my new job until Monday, so I have nothing else better to do today than to go and take some pictures.

GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:

Nice, I live an hour away in Beaumont and was thinking of heading up there Sunday to do some looking around.

Yes! Please do it could be a really big help!

The Monkey Man posted:

I'm speculating that the gem in the New Orleans picture is a pearl, and that it's represented by the full moon in the clock. Are all of the gems birthstones?

Yep, and if you haven't picked up on it every picture also has a birth flower, which was a thing I never even knew existed!

Also everything up to this point is in the 3rd post! It's still a bit rough and needs some condensing and I still need to cross post the mock up's from the wiki but this is definite progress.

Were pretty close to CASK 1 I'd say.

I'll also work on Making a to do list to help organize what we still need a bit better.

# ¿ May 31, 2013 19:03

allta: Mar 28, 2011

As far as sinking goes, assuming the casks are buried in normal, everyday soil, that means they will have sinked, but not much if at all!

:science:

the specific density of soil is between 2.6 and 2.8. The density of Porcelain is 2.3-2.5!

Basic science says that the heavier object sinks, so its very possible that if they were buried deep enough(over 3 feet I'd say) that the casks would rise more than they would have sunk in the past 30 years.

This math holds true to coins I know but I'm not sure how well it will apply to a Porcelain buried 3 decades ago but you never know I guess.

Also of note, Byron only had a 6 foot shovel, so at least it wont be half way to china!

To do list coming, I've started a hard-copy notebook to keep track of everything so its just a matter of updating from that should I reach any conclusions.

# ¿ May 31, 2013 22:03

allta: Mar 28, 2011

So, I was playing around with various image filters, to see if anything happened, and I noticed when on invtert the colours everything(at least in this case) gets a lot easier to see(caution nightmares):

That's the inverted image for cask 2

There's still something on the lions head, but I still don't recognize it.

# ¿ May 31, 2013 23:07

allta: Mar 28, 2011

John Dough posted:

And 80 to its top-left. On the left side of the head is something that looks like 33 and 6 or 61.

Those are the lat and long for Charleston.

It doesn't really help with a few of the other images I tried, but I'm going to keep playing around with it for awhile and see what happens

# ¿ May 31, 2013 23:24

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Kingnothing posted:

I haven't seen this brought up yet.

The guy who did all the drawings for the book ( http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jude_Palencar ) is still alive. Obviously he has to know all of the clues in the drawings because he had to draw them in specifically for Byron, even if he didn't know what they meant.

Since Byron's been dead for 8 years, does anyone want to attempt to reach out to this guy and see if he'll disclose at least some what he remembers of the hidden things in the images?

Along that, do you think It's worth reaching out to the Brian Zinn the guy who found the last cask? At the very least he will probably have some information off the dead, locked forums board the wiki links to?

edit:pretty sure this is him, unless there is another Bankruptcy attorney the same age and experience level?

# ¿ May 31, 2013 23:40

allta: Mar 28, 2011

The Human Cow posted:

I found a website with a pretty decent theory about the Charleston image here. Makes me want to take a trip to Sullivan's Island this weekend.

There's an email address and he's a confirmed member of that dead adventuring forum the wiki links. Let's see if he can help us with anything!

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 00:05

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Neutrino posted:

It looks like davey4283 &I will meet down in front of the RedArrow park Starbucks around 2:30 tomorrow if other Milwaukee goons are interested.

You have no idea how tempting that 2 hour drive is.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 00:09

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Email sent. But it's a UK address and its like 1 AM there so I'm not exactly expecting a speedy response.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 00:25

allta: Mar 28, 2011

So if that's the San Francisco Park map, is it possible that this is the map to the equivalent park in Boston?

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 00:35

allta: Mar 28, 2011

It is possible that the Cask 12 is wrong and isn't new york. The wiki and pretty much everywhere else I've seen lists the coordinates as new york but not in an exactly believable way.

The only way we would be able to confirm it was new york would be if we found the coordinates in the puzzle picture, which for this one is easier said than done.

I'll play around with the filters a bit and see if I can find it.

I'm to tied to see anything, but here is the inverted image which should make it easier for anyone willing to try:

I'd imagine its in the waves somewhere and it should give the coordinates to NewYork but possibly not!

See you tomorrow goons, I'll update the OP a bit then!

allta fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Jun 1, 2013

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 03:40

allta: Mar 28, 2011

We have access to the adventuring forums that yielded the 2004 cask :siren:

This could potentially be huge! All those locked pages on the wiki aren't locked anymore, so we can get some insight into where they've either dug or narrowed it down to!

Screenshots/transcribes to come!

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 16:27

allta: Mar 28, 2011

So goons, what happens when you have a forum full of treasure hunters, a sub-forum just for the secret, and about 10 years to post in it?

It would take me months to pour over all of this information, if anyone would like to help(safari rules apply) send me a pm. I wont do email for this one sense I wont be able to tell who is who.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 16:44

allta: Mar 28, 2011

So according to the forums, the way they got the Lat for the San Francisco(cask 1) was by counting the boxes on her sleeves? If thats true, my assumption that the lat and long are actual numbers hidden somewhere in the picture are a tad off.

It's still without a doubt San Francisco though, so don't worry about that.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 17:16

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Some more things from that forum about San Francisco(cask 1). You know when you have a picture but instead of looking at it straight on you hold if infront of you looking the long way?

All of these pictures have barley visible clues that only really become apparent when we manipulate the image. so what if some of these things are so obvious but only if your looking at it the right way?

so let's try this, I'll take the SF image and load it into a word processor and stretch the image up and we get:

The mountains in the background become hills, and a few more appear in the background. This would be infinitely easier with a hard copy of the book.

Edit: Any San Francisco goons up for a feild trip to Golden Gate Park?

There's an interesting theory posted back in febuary, but there forum has such low traffic that no one there has fallowed up on it, and I definitely thing it's worth checking out. Also if you could get a picture of the Betsy Ross flag poll and the Lincoln Highway Marker so we can confirm/deny that they match up that would be great as well!

allta fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 1, 2013

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 17:41

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Fistgrrl posted:

I think the wiki map is mislabeled because there should be 12 dots and there isn't one for Boston. Also, I read the Chicago article and it's pretty disheartening that the author had to send them a photo of where it was buried and they still almost missed it. Also they said they were sure there was one in Colorado? Maybe another treasure hunt...?

Or its likely that one of the pictures is possibly Colorado, the wiki hasn't been fully indicate in over 6 years, and some of the methods they used for establishing the coordinates were....questionable to say the least.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 20:18

allta: Mar 28, 2011

I did some playing around with cask 6/St. Augustine,Fl and when you set the image to a high transparency(effictivly ignoring everything but the outlines of objects) you get left with a something a tad different:

Note:depending on your monitor and settings you may have to look at it from a different angle.

That cant be a coincidence right?

Edit:Here's an outline I did in mspaint, I'll try to just isolate what I'm trying to show, sorry for all of the confusion!

allta fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jun 1, 2013

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 20:53

allta: Mar 28, 2011

This is the clearest I can get it before the face starts getting distorted.

Edit:got it a bit clear

allta fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jun 1, 2013

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 21:15

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Kingnothing posted:

Can we maybe start marking the top of each post with location/cask/image in bold and color (different color for each location?) or something so the thread is easier to sift through when building a wiki or looking for all info regarding one clue? And maybe add this idea to the OP as a standard and we can edit our posts before this all gets out if hand.

I'm planning on going through and writing a summary post for everything up to this point tonight, I have it all written on a hard copy so its just a matter of typing it, same with the to do list.

Also I like your idea so I'll add it to the op!

Also the wiki should be official tomorrow or Monday depending on how much free time I have. I've also had a few goons email me for help with one so thank you goons!

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 22:20

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Cask 6/St.Augustine,FL
Is it possible that the statue head thing is actually just saint Augustine?

Part of me just thinks that's way too easy though.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 22:38

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Devyl posted:

I know we have a few people thinking verse 7 is in San Francisco, but here's my reasoning behind why verse 7 HAS to be New Orleans:

Wow.

This is definitely worth checking into, Giant pole almost certainly is a reference to something in the park, though that thing may or may not actually still be there.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 23:14

allta: Mar 28, 2011

cask 7/New Orleans

This cant all be a coincidence right?

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 23:25

allta: Mar 28, 2011

^^^no your fine, any idea is worth posting sense were still trying to find that last piece we need!

Just a thought.

Also what if the time on the clock in the picture is supposed to indicate the time your supposed to be there to see something? IE church bells ringing, or where the top of the shadow for that pole is reaching?

allta fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Jun 2, 2013

# ¿ Jun 2, 2013 03:46

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Cask 7,New Orleans
Well the result of around 40 minutes in an image manipulator left me with a mess of jumbled static, so I'm taking that as my cue for it being too late and heading off to bed.

Summary posts tomorrow, and a to do list! so exciting!

# ¿ Jun 2, 2013 04:54

allta: Mar 28, 2011

somehow I cant imagine Byron going around to various park and rec departments of cities and asking if he could dig up a very specific spot and bury treasure.

Back in those days, no one really cared. That was pre 9/11 and people did weird things all the time without rhyme or reason.

Also, I think were really close to the new orleans cask, all we really need is the last part and I have a feeling that music has something to do with it. I mean its in a very historically musical area. We really just need to pinpoint it down.

Summary posts to come in a few hours!

# ¿ Jun 2, 2013 14:23

allta: Mar 28, 2011

InFlames235 posted:

I live near San Fran. I'd totally be down to dig this up. If what they found was so conclusive how come no one in that thread found the SF treasure already?

Well for one thing, there are weeks/months between posts on a lot of the other forums that have looked into this, in the first day of the thread it got more views than the entire sub-forum that's been talking about and searching for these casks for the better part of 10 years.

As for why it hasn't been found its likely that they haven't either had the chance to dig, or weren't able to narrow it down, or dug where they thought it was and it wasn't there.

On the quest4treasure forum I've found at least 4 examples of the latter. This isn't terrible news because it means we know where not to dig and in each instance they were all able to get permission to dig. It's just a matter of having enough evidence when you go to either park and rec's or the landscaping company tasked with maintaining the park.

Most of the summaries are written I'm just going through and double checking some things from earlier in the thread.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2013 18:32

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Sorry Goons, something came up and I didn't get around to finishing the summaries today! As much as I would have loved to use the excuse "I can't because I have to assist people from the internet in solving a 31 year old treasure hunt" I don't think I would have helped much.

I have them mostly written and as much as I'd like to submit them in the state there in I think they'd cause more confusion than help anyone!

I'll have them all up tomorrow periodically, I promise!

# ¿ Jun 3, 2013 04:06

allta: Mar 28, 2011

The Monkey Man posted:

Has anyone actually tried to dig the remaining ones up and failed to find them?

A few people, 3 from the Quest4Treasure forum, none of them came up with anything.

There's probably more but there is 10 years of posts to sift through so it's going to be awhile before we know for sure.

First summary posts should be up within the hour barring nothing distracting happening!

# ¿ Jun 3, 2013 20:47

allta: Mar 28, 2011

To Do list is up(in the op), summaries to come! Just need to play with the formatting when a bit.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2013 21:31

allta: Mar 28, 2011

I have everything up to page 12 written, but It's taking longer than I'd thought and I need to run and do something, so they will be up tonight 100% for sure!

# ¿ Jun 4, 2013 00:26

allta: Mar 28, 2011

So I tired a proper, written summary, but because we're running off a blot of speculations it really just turned into a big confusing "what if" for each of the casks, and would have confused more people than it would have helped! So instead you get plan b, everything that's been posted so far about each cask, I hope this suffices!

Also, because I'm more than certain we will need the space, I'm making each cask a separate post, the Boston one alone is only slightly under the post limit.

Also, general gets a category here:

Absolute Lithops posted:

General
At the forum, the guy who found the Cleveland cask wrote:

"Preiss was a very good poker player, and was not giving out any hints about any of the other locations. However, he did confirm my theory that the countries of origin of the faeries do connect with the sites."

Thanks to the forum, I've been able to gather all the country/continent verses here. The book's conceit is that the fairies of the world are entrusting these jewels to humankind (but only the humans in the US and maybe Canada, apparently).

Cask 1, China
"From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl:
Chaste, perfect as the silver moon."
(Edit: I know pearls are traditionally associated with the moon, because of their appearance and their shared connection with water. But given the 11 moons in the image for this one, could this verse be another hint?)

Cask 2, Africa
"Africa's Diamond, earth-born star,
Bright harvest of the midnight rock."

Cask 3, England
"Fairies of England proudly bear
Garnet, crown-jewel of their Queen."

Cask 4, Greece (** found)
"The Nymphs of Hellas cherish sweet
Aquamarine, spring-water clear."

Cask 5, Ireland (** found)
"Brilliant as the eyes of Celtic folk,
Cold morning green, their Emerald."

Cask 6, Spain (I'm not sure how they ruled out Portugal.)
"The Hadas of Iberia:
Sapphire, shy as a wild field flower."
(Edit: I looked up "hadas." It's the Spanish word for "Fair Folk," while the direct cognate in Portuguese is "fadas.")

Cask 7, France
"Turquoise the Fays of France keep: stone
Rare as a blue midsummer's day."

Cask 8, Arabia (Saudi, I guess?)
"The Ruby out of Araby:
Scarlet of the desert sky at dawn."

Cask 9, Netherlands
"The Opal of the Lowland Gnomes:
A cloud of shining, shifting smoke."
(Edit: I think the image for this one deliberately references Rembrandt's paintings. It may be a general nod to the Netherlands, or it could mean something more specific)

Cask 10, Germany
"Dwarves' treasure: purple Amethyst,
Imperial star of Germany."

Cask 11, Italy
"Peridot of old Italy:
antique, and olivine, and rich."

Cask 12, Russia
"A Topaz is the Russian prize:
The royal sunstone, frozen fire."

Absolute Lithops posted:

General

In the Cleveland puzzle, the illustration of the birth flower was part of a rebus pointing to the cask's location.

This means two things:
1) The flowers, and possibly the jewels, in the images can be clues.
2) Some clues may be rebuses, instead of depicting things you're actually supposed to see.

Pilot to Gunner posted:

It's really easy to make things match if you want them to. Me and a friend jokingly decided to pick a random city to assign to cask 12 and went with Detroit. Within a few minutes we had a lot of "evidence" that it was Detroit. Cars do abound in Detroit! Isle of B is Belle Isle! The lion face on her dress is the lion from the Scott Memorial Fountain! Native to indies might mean Alexander Hamilton and there is the Alexander Hamilton Middle School! Whoa, and a nearby sign dedicated to native americans! 3 vols= the big 3 carmakers but if they are referring to Dante's three volumes, there is also that statue of Dante on Belle Isle and he was rhapsodic! The largest skyscraper in Detroit is grey and rectangular!

You could seriously do this with almost any city and make it fit if you tried.

Tjadeth posted:

I had no idea we were this close to this one. Someone needs to get out there and start looking for fairies and gnomes/fates & earths and poo poo. Also poking holes in the ground.

So how many people here missed that the birth flowers are meant to align with the birthstones?

EDIT: Yeah, I guess I'll clarify:

Cask 1 - June. Rose, pearl, sixth month.
Cask 2 - April. Daisy, diamond, fourth month.
Cask 3 - January. Carnation, garnet, first month.
Cask 4 - March. Daffodil, aquamarine third month.
Cask 5 - May. Lily of the valley, emerald, fifth month.
Cask 6 - Tentatively, September: sapphire, aster, ninth month. Doesn't look like a sapphire, but maybe the colors are hosed.
Cask 7 - December. Narcissus (unless it's holly, I am not a flower person), turquoise, twelfth month.
Cask 8 - Probably July as per the probably-ruby. Evidently water lily or larkspur somewhere; the more weirdly-shaped leaves look a bit larkspurish.
Cask 9 - Probably October. Supposedly marigold, opal, tenth month.
Cask 10 - ...
Cask 11 - Ugh, I hate this one. Peridot is the only non-emerald green stone I'm seeing, so that would be August, the eighth month, which would make the flower behind her either a gladiolus or a poppy. Does that fucker look like a poppy to you? It doesn't to me. But none of the other flowers are poppy/gladiolus (i.e. sword)-shaped, so...
(Oh poo poo, ~~and I just realized that if the window were a clock, the jewel would be at the eight hand~~ I am a moron who was born after the advent of the digital clock)
Cask 12 - November. Crysanthemum(?), topaz(?), eleventh month.

I have absolutely zero idea which of these is supposed to be February/amethyst/violet. Shame; that's my birth month.

BJG posted:

This book does have some really obscure things in it. Like, "Edwin and Edwina named after him" is borrowed from P164 of a book called "Abroad in America".

The same book is the source of the "sovereign people" in Verse 2.

"Here is the sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night! Here is the religion which is dedicated to man as man, and here the marvels of art are lavished on the glorification of the masses! Nero had his Domus Aurea, but the Roman plebeians had only the catacombs to shelter themselves!"

One of these quotes relates to Charleston, and the other to New Orleans...two of the casque locations.

So...this might have nothing to do with Marietta, but I wouldn't rule her out on the grounds of obscurity.

Emacs Headroom posted:

What if we work backwards, and assume that the author would 1) have to be burying these things, and 2) would have to assume that they wouldn't get dug up or destroyed accidentally for the forseeable future (say 50-100 years).

In NYC, that doesn't leave too many options with the constant development. Even the parks (like Bryant Park) are liable to be dug up occasionally.

If it were me, I'd go either with heritage sites or national parkland or endowed land (like the Cloisters -- endowed by Rockefeller, who might be "he of Hard word?"). It would also have to be somewhere the author had sneaky physical access to though.

BJG posted:

Each image has a well-established month with corresponding birth flower and birthstone. These are used with a verse in the book called the "litany" to find the country.

THE LITANY OF THE JEWELS

What are the treasures the Fair Folk bring?
Easily named, and lovingly told:
Fairies of England proudly bear
Garnet, crown-jewel of their Queen. ---- (P3)
Brilliant as eyes of Celtic folk,
Cold morning green, their Emerald. ---- (P5)
The Hadas of Iberia:
Sapphire, shy as a wild field flower. ---- (P6)
Turquoise the Fays of France keep: stone
Rare as a blue midsummer's day. ---- (P7)
Dwarves' treasure: purple Amethyst,
Imperial star of Germany. ---- (P10)
The Opal of the Lowland Gnomes:
A cloud of shining, shifting smoke. ---- (P9)
A Topaz is the Russian prize:
The royal sunstone, frozen fire. ---- (P12)
Peridot of old Italy:
Antique, and olivine, and rich. ---- (P11)
The Ruby out of Araby:
Scarlet of desert sky at dawn. ---- (P8 )
Africa's Diamond, earth-born star,
Bright harvest of the midnight rock. ---- (P2)
The Nymphs of Hellas cherish sweet
Aquamarine, spring-water clear. ---- (P4)
From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl:
Chaste, perfect as the silver moon. ---- (P1)
Each jewel in its weird-wrought casque,
Gift of the Viking craftsmen Elves.
Wonder and glory thirteen-fold:
These are the treasures the Fair Folk bring.

Preiss confirmed to Egbert, the second casque-finder, that these were significant. Eg the casque Egbert found was in the Greek Cultural Garden. (Should have been the aquamarine, though Preiss actually handed him the wrong one by mistake.)

The introduction to this book is not online and much neglected. (I don't currently have a copy, but perhaps someone might like to scan it in and post it up.)

BJG posted:

I'm interested in the possibility that the zodiac is in there as well, though I haven't been able to do anything with it.

Possible Zodiac correspondences with image months.

1. June - Gemini

2. April - Aries

3. Jan - Capricorn

4. Mar - Pisces

5. May - Taurus

(Chicago bulls)

6. Sept - Virgo

7. Dec - Sagittarius

8. July - Cancer

(96 suggested as a coordinate)

9. Oct - Libra

10. Feb - Aquarius

11. Aug - Leo

12. Nov - Scorpio

CronoGamer posted:

He's right though, some of the leaps that people are making in this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Look at the solved riddles again, these are pictures and verses that will make sense once you know what you're looking at. It doesn't seem like he was counting on people to have arcane knowledge of 80 year old forgotten speeches or of long-dead Brazilian mineralogists.

It's great that people are trying to dig deep and find some solid leads but it just seems like some theories would benefit from a little more time in the cooker.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2013 16:50

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Cask 1//San Fran

Velvet Sparrow posted:

Verse #7 may go with San Francisco. It mentions 'Twain's attention' with 'Twain' capitalized (Mark Twain spent time in San Francisco), that may refer to Calaveras County from his story, 'The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County'. The 'giant pole' may refer to Coit Tower.

In the picture for San Francisco, the post that the rose sits on looks like the shape of something--the Coit Tower or a cannon, possibly referring to The Presidio...?

Number_6 posted:

I can't add anything to the interpretation of Verse #7, but as a mere tourist to San Francisco several times, something about the image for Cask 1 just shouts "Coit Tower" or "Alcatraz" to me.

gogobunny posted:

Anyway, I got really fixated on that "sweet smell" clue, and the first things that came to mind were either the rose garden in Golden Gate Park, or Ghirardelli Square. Ghirardelli Square has the added bonus of being right across the water from Alcatraz, since I do think that's supposed to be Alcatraz in the background there, plus it's close to several parks. Golden Gate park kinda fits with the Asian motif of the illustration, though, since it's got a Japanese garden and a Chinese style gazebo. Most of the other clues in the verse I have no idea about.

old dog child posted:

Alcatraz Gardens on Angel Island maybe? I have no idea if that was a park back then but it fits the picture. Dragon (immigration), rose (garden), big rear end island (Angel Island), towers (missile batteries, watch towers, etc). Rocks in the back over the horizon could be the SF skyline as seen from across the bay.

Edit: my phone hosed up.

I'm looking at the little blue blob to the left of the lady's head in the SF pic...does anyone else feel like that's supposed to be an outline? I can't place it even though my dumb brain keeps thinking "Blue Park" (hurr)

auPHE posted:

As far as this goes, I think that Ghirardelli Square makes a huge amount of sense--in addition to having a view of Alcatraz (which many were reminded of by the window in the picture), there's an urban legend (that even I heard about on a short trip there) saying that inmates of Alcatraz could, on particularly windy days, smell chocolate across the water from the square. So I would say it's likely that #1 is buried in either Fort Mason Green or SF Maritime National Historic Park, both located nearby Ghirardelli Square and with a view of Alcatraz.

Howard The Dork posted:

For SF: Running north but first across.

That line plus the door on the image makes me think of battery spencer, just on the north side of the Golden Gate Bridge. That plus the cannon table.

Occams taser posted:

Verse 6 is for the one in San Francisco.

(i'm in rhode island, so no chance of me going to look for it, but i digress)

Using the discovered casks as a baseline, it can be assumed that the image COULD include a hidden latitude and longitude for the city. Reading down the column of figures on the right of the dress, we see:

I
II
II

The finger of her right hand divides the boxes below into:

3
7

which results in the coordinates 122 and 37, which are coincidentally the coordinates for San Francisco.

Of all the romance retold
Men of tales and tunes
Cruel and bold
Seen here
By eyes of old

This is a paraphrase of the introduction to Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson, which suggests that it is also in SF, as the RLS memorial is in portsmouth square, chinatown (doesn't the oriental looking woman and the dragon in the picture make sense now?).

Stand and listen to the birds
Hear the cool, clear song of water

This could be a description of the spot by the fountain.

Harken to the words:
Freedom at the birth of a century
Or May 1913

These lines recall Lincoln�s Emancipation Proclamation; its legislation to free slaves at the beginning
of a century, and its 50th anniversary celebration in 1913. Looking at the map of Portsmouth square, there's a "Clay st" and a man named Cassius Clay helped draft the proclamation, and assuming this is relative, it could be referencing Clay St.

Edwin and Edwina named after him

The actor Edwin Booth (yes john wilkes booth's brother), whose daughter Edwina was named after him, is commemorated on a nearby plaque at 440 Bush St (the site of the old California Theater). INCIDENTALLY. there's also a plaque commemorating Robert Louis Stevenson (on the house where he lived.)

Or on the eighth a scene
Where law defended

If you follow Clay west, you come to Lafayette Tennis court (�a scene where law defended�) on Octavia (which means eighth).

Embedded in the sand
Waits the Fair remuneration

I'm assuming this is a literal hint as to where the cask is buried.

White house close at hand.

I'm assuming there's a white house nearby.

Did some quick googling to find most of this stuff out, but it makes a shitload of sense.

shoemonkey posted:

Edit: This goes with what occam's taser said above.

From the wiki mentioned in the OP I found this.

http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc/thesecret/sftrail.pdf

This guy seems to think verse 6 goes with San Francisco, and has a very well thought out explanation pointing to some tennis courts by Lafayette park. I might go check out that park and look around.

That being said, I think it could be verse 7 instead

High posts are three
Education and Justice
For all to see

This part kind of sounds like Civic Center, which has City, State and Federal buildings all next to each other, as well as a law school and a court house.

Is an object
Of Twain's attention
Giant pole
Giant step

Could refer to the Dewey statue in union park, which commemorates the Spanish-American War. Mark Twain was pretty pissed about the Spanish American war, so that could be the connection. There's also a Mark Twain hotel nearby.

John Dough posted:

I live on the wrong continent to add any local knowledge, but I know that the US has a lot of geographic information publicly available online. Some quick searching led me to The National Map of the US Geological Survey. They have historical maps available of all major cities, dating back to the 19th century. Obviously, it's no Google Maps, but it does allow you to see, for example, that that park in San Francisco did use to be a military base. This map is from 1976:

Aerial photographs tend to be more difficult to find, they use a lot of bandwidth and are often commercial.

12_String posted:

Then there is this, another "object Of Twain's attention":

- letter to the Territorial Enterprise, June 1864

The Occidental Hotel occupied the entire east side of Montgomery Street, from Sutter to Bush. It was destroyed in the 1906 San Francisco earthquake.

Edit:

There is Jackson Street at the Southeast corner of the Presidio. It intersect at Arguello Blvd., which immediately enters the Presidio.

There is also Jackson Square near both the aforementioned Montgomery and Sutter Streets and Ghirardelli Square. Jackson Square houses the US Immigration and Customs Offices, which could be considered a "gate".

12_String posted:

Then there is this, another "object Of Twain's attention":

- letter to the Territorial Enterprise, June 1864

The Occidental Hotel occupied the entire east side of Montgomery Street, from Sutter to Bush. It was destroyed in the 1906 San Francisco earthquake.

Edit:

There is Jackson Street at the Southeast corner of the Presidio. It intersect at Arguello Blvd., which immediately enters the Presidio.

There is also Jackson Square near both the aforementioned Montgomery and Sutter Streets and Ghirardelli Square. Jackson Square houses the US Immigration and Customs Offices, which could be considered a "gate".

Absolute Lithops posted:

Cask 1, San Francisco

For Riddle 7: The "object of Twain's attention" is the William McKinley Monument in Panhandle Park. President McKinley led the US into the Spanish-American War which, as Velvet Sparrow pointed out, Twain strongly opposed.

In the illustration, the silhouette of the monument is flipped, suggesting that you should stand with the statue behind you. Based on that, and the location of the pearl in the illustration, I think the casque is buried in Panhandle Park, between the monument and Golden Gate Park.

Unfortunately, the pedestal doesn't match the table clue.

However, it looks like the lamp does!

I could only find a tiny picture, but its silhouette matches. The clock forms the little spire on top. Could this also be the "giant pole" mentioned in the riddle? These lamps must be throughout the park, so it doesn't make sense to single one out as "giant." On the other hand, the illustration seems to show the casque between the monument and a lamp, but somewhat to the south of both. This matches the description in the riddle: Running north, but first across/In jewel's direction/Is an object/Of Twain's attention/Giant pole/Giant step/To the place/The casque is kept." So what's the giant step? Looking at the rose's spiral stem, I wonder if there's a spiral staircase nearby.

Obdicut posted:

Verse 7 really feels like San Francisco to me.

1. There's a Twain reference
2. El Camino Real crosses San Francisco and then turns north. El Camino Real is also 101, and rt 1, satisfying 'ace'. It is also Lombard street before it turns, so the direction of the Jewel could be west along Lombard.
3. Stone Wall's Door could refer to the entrance of Lombard to the presidio.

I'm not sure why Lombard would be the object of Twain's attention.

And maybe I just miss San Francisco.

allta posted:

Some more things from that forum about San Francisco(cask 1). You know when you have a picture but instead of looking at it straight on you hold if infront of you looking the long way?

All of these pictures have barley visible clues that only really become apparent when we manipulate the image. so what if some of these things are so obvious but only if your looking at it the right way?

so let's try this, I'll take the SF image and load it into a word processor and stretch the image up and we get:

The mountains in the background become hills, and a few more appear in the background. This would be infinitely easier with a hard copy of the book.

Edit: Any San Francisco goons up for a feild trip to Golden Gate Park?

There's an interesting theory posted back in febuary, but there forum has such low traffic that no one there has fallowed up on it, and I definitely thing it's worth checking out. Also if you could get a picture of the Betsy Ross flag poll and the Lincoln Highway Marker so we can confirm/deny that they match up that would be great as well!

Pawn 17 posted:

Some history of the Lincoln Highway in SF:

Along the Lincoln Highway in San Francisco

Until the construction of the Bay Bridge in 1936, Lincoln Highway travelers used a ferry to cross from Berkeley Pier to Hyde Street Pier. From there, the Lincoln Highway followed modern-day Hyde Street to North Point Street west to Van Ness Avenue and south to California Street, where it continued due west to 32nd Avenue, whereupon the road entered Lincoln Park. Using this guide, it's easy to see whether you've actually passed along the Lincoln Highway, an overlooked piece of Americana in the heart of San Francisco.

Absolute Lithops posted:

General
I've only looked at the SF thread, but there's so much useful information there I'd have to copy/paste the whole thing to "summarize" it. I really suggest people look at it themselves.

Cask 1, San Francisco

Looking again at how the Cleveland puzzle was solved, "The centaur, a mythical Greek creature, identifies the Greek theme of this quest." The cask was found in the Greek Cultural Garden. That means the Asian theme in the SF picture must be really significant. Also, a gap between the crags in the upper right-hand area is very symmetrical. I think it's another upside-down spire, or maybe part of a sculpture or monument.

Absolute Lithops posted:

San Francisco

Wow, check this out: http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/22148488/1_Park

From this, the folks at the Wiki decided the cask was at Golden Gate Park, probably in the Japanese Tea Garden. There's no explanation of how they reached this conclusion, though.

Over in that forum, people noted that if you flip the Image 1, the Gh faces the right direction and the dragon map seems to better fit Golden Gate Park. This also has the advantage of putting the yin-yang symbol near the Asian Museum and Japanese Tea Garden, instead of across from them.

Cask 1, San Francisco
I think the possible torii clue in (see the annotated pics on the first page) may give a hint about the cask's specific location. Even though torii are Japanese, not Chinese.

M2tt posted:

San Francisco
I'm pretty sure this is/was in the City Hall plaza. If you look at the image and assume the large rectangle is Golden Gate Park, then the Pearl is located off in the direction of where City hall is.

Verse 6

Of all the romance retold
Men of tales and tunes
Cruel and bold

Reference to Opera? At say the San Francisco Opera House?

Seen here
By eyes of old

It's across the street from City Hall, the facade of which is covered in stone faces

Stand and listen to the birds
Hear the cool, clear song of water

Not positive, but this looks an awful lot like where a fountain used to be: http://goo.gl/maps/8VB7x

Harken to the words:
Freedom at the birth of a century

Lincoln reference(Lincoln statue on east side of City Hall)

Or May 1913

The new City hall was started in May 1913 after the old one was destroyed in the 1906 quake

Edwin and Edwina named after him

John Wilkes Booth reference? Points back to Lincoln and Opera House

Or on the eighth a scene
Where law defended
Between two arms extended

Treaty of San Francisco signed (Arms extended being a handshake?) at the War Memorial Opera house (with Japan, if you need more Asia references)
edit: On September 8th

Below the bar that binds
I'm guessing this is a reference to the flag poles in the City Hall plaza (binding nations, states, etc)

Beside the long palm's shadow

There is a long line of trees along what looks to be a sand pit in the plaza. Maybe they used to be palm trees? Maybe one of them looked particularly sad.

Embedded in the sand

Did I mention the sand pit?

Waits the Fair remuneration
White house close at hand.

Figurative reference to the City Hall, being the capital of San Francisco?

ChickenOfTomorrow posted:

CASK 1/SAN FRANCISCO

This is the park in Russian Hill (reorientated so it isn't in shadow).

The more I look at it the more I doubt it, compared with the Golden Gate Park option:

Comstar posted:

I mean if you look from where this picture was taken towards the hills - does it match? The other fourm seemed to indicate it was at the base of the light pole at the top of the stairs.

ChickenOfTomorrow posted:

SAN FRANCISCO/CASK 1

Ohhh, that photo. Yeah, that might match, though it's hard to see hills through the gaps in the buildings. Here's a Street View from the street beside those stairs - note the steeple for orientation - and the glimpse of hills:

Is that light pole old enough to have been there when the riddle was written?

More on the golden gate park: I overlaied the lady's dragon with the park, hoping there'd be a match in some outlines of the dragon or the checkerboards. The shapes definitely match already. Here's the original and flipped versions of her dress. Not so sure anything matches:

Essential posted:

I've been researching the San Francisco one and assuming that verse 6 (with the 1913 Lincoln reference) is for SF here's what I've discovered:

1913 Lincoln Highway is the address for the very top of Lincoln Hill, which is also exact spot of the Legion of Honor art museum (which has a different address). This address is a somewhat "hidden" address, in that it doesn't look like it's the right spot at all, until you dig a little and see that it is the right spot, it's actually the very last/ending address for the Lincoln highway. Lincoln Highway is one of those roads that 'merges' with other roads at various points. On the map it says "Lincoln Highway Western Terminus". There is also a statue/plaque that marks it and says the same thing. So 1913 is the very last address for that road, the verse says "Freedom at the birth of a century, Or May 1913". Perhaps the 'or' part is referring to the opposite of birth, the end?

34th Avenue (the woman's hands point to 4 & 3) happens to end at this exact location as well. Her hands seem to pointing at the ends of 4 & 3, but probably that's just wishful thinking.

If you are in the parking lot (via Google maps) of the Legion of Honor building, facing the building, there is a fountain behind you and could refer to the sound of water in the verse. Also, being right by the ocean could lend itself to hearing more birds, sea gulls, but I suppose that could be anywhere in SF. When facing the building from this spot, to your left in front of the building is a statue of Joan of Arc, with her arm raised. To the right is a statue of El Cid, also with his arm raised. This could fit this part of the verse 'Between two arms extended'. These statues are about ~100 yards apart. I've tried fitting the silouhette's onto the picture (the blueish blobs to the left and right of the woman's head) and by reversing the horizontal view they kind of seem to fit (again, probably just my brain trying to see something that's not there).

This place (just like anywhere in SF) has a ton of fantastic art, both inside and outside the building and the other clues could certainly be here. I've been looking at the art on the webite, such as here http://legionofhonor.famsf.org/legion/collections/european-decorative-art-sculpture , in case something matches the shape of the thing the watch is sitting on, but no luck so far.

This building is also white and the back of it somewhat resembles the white house.

I had been looking over and over the Golden Gate park when I stumbled upon this, just in case it's not actually in the GGP but maybe here instead.

I haven't been able to read everything in the thread so if verse 6 goes to a different city please let me know.

Nendil posted:

Welp, I had thought about responding to ChickenOfTomorrow's plea yesterday to meet up and search for clues because SO and I were going to SF, but we went to the Legion of Honor instead as we had originally planned I like your thought process in matching up the verse, but just based on intuition and recollection, the location doesn't feel like it fits the specific-sounding instructions in the verse (nothing like "Below the bar that binds/Beside the long palm's shadow/Embedded in the sand"), nor is it a particularly inconspicuous place to dig (though I suppose you could get there after dark probably?). Anyway, I don't have any direct evidence to contradict this theory, just reporting the on-scene vibe

Essential posted:

San Francisco

Well, I couldn't let the idea go of it being somewhere at the Legion of Honor so I did a little more digging. It turns out the Legion of Honor was founded by Napoleon Bonaparte. Napoleon's first wife went by the name 'Rose', however he didn't like that name so he had her change it to "Jos�phine". Note in the picture the rose with the "J" shaped stem. So maybe, there is a double meaning there "Rose = June Flower" : "Rose = Jos�phine"

Also, look at the plate the watch is sitting on, then look at this picture: http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/12/b9/3d/fountain-and-sculpture.jpg

That is the fountain in front of the LoH. Looks pretty dang similar. The watch is sitting in the middle of the plate, and the hour/minute hand could be the fountain spray. If you look for LoH fountain pics there are some that look even closer to a match and google maps view looks strikingly similar. That one also has that art in the background, could that be this verse "Between two arms extended"?

No matter what this is really fun and I'm learning a TON of stuff.

NoSoup4U posted:

Here's another possibility pointing to the Legion Honor. I rode through there on a bike tour in 2010 and managed a grand total of three photos, including this one:

Compare the spiral in the lower left to that of the rose:

Also, any meaning in the orientation of the rose leaves? Left-right-left?

Rydalia posted:

SAN FRANCISCO

San Francisco Goon checking in!

I live walking distance away from the park so I can possibly check it out and take pics this weekend. My other puzzle loving friend who lives nearby (also a goon) is interested but has a baby so I might not be able to get him to go out. EDIT: He is all in!

I have a strong feeling its in Golden Gate Park somewhere roughly near-ish the Japanese Tea Garden/De YoungMuseum/ Academy of Sciences.
Are we sure what poem goes with SF yet? Verse 7 "The air smells sweet" made me think of the Golden Gate Park Rose Garden (Also right next to the Japanese Tea Garden) but someone already pointed it out. It could mean the conservatory of flowers, but that is further away and I'm not familiar with that area as much.

Verse 6 made me think of the outdoor stage between the two museums, called Spreckles Temple of Music according to google maps.

Looking around on street view, there are a bunch of palm trees "Beside the long palm's shadow" planted in this area in front of the Museum too!

The table in the painting looks very close to the old lamp posts in the park, but these are all over the city too.

For goons asking about the Lincoln highway, it's sort of nearby and there's a tiny historical marker at the nearby bus stop.
Here's a pic of the one near my house but I don't think it will help.

If it is buried in the Japanese Tea Garden, we are hosed b/c it's private property and there's no way they'd let you dig there (you pay admission).

I am a little reluctant to go digging until a we have a better pinpoint on the location, since I will most likely get in trouble digging in Golden Gate Park. And this specific area of the park is loaded with tourists on the weekends.

There are also a fuckton of statues and tiny lakes/ponds in Golden Gate Park. I tried matching the negative space on the left side of the woman to a map but no luck so far.

I've spent too much time on this now but hopefully that helps!

Saganaut posted:

San Francisco

I just wanted to say that I was never too confident in the "G h"/Ghirardelli connection. A reference to roads next to parks containing casks seems much more likely, and keep in mind that both images for the discovered casks (Chicago and Cleveland) contained references to nearby roads.

Also, I agree that we shouldn't get too distracted by photo manipulations and distorted overlays. That said, if we consider that the "G h" might possibly stand for "Great Highway", that is one more clue suggesting that the cask may be buried in GGP. This is a case where I think the distinctively elongated rectangular shape of the park might be referenced by the image (of course, it would be preferable if the shape it was matching wasn't such a generic one...). However, what we're missing are strong clues from any of the associated verses which can allow us to be more confident of the cask's location being in GGP. I'd feel a lot better about thinking it was in such a large park if we had something more to go on than just the fact that it has a Japanese Tea Garden and a Rose Garden.

And I think Plaid Jacket's idea of consolidating all of our ongoing theories and information into shareable spreadsheets for each potential location is great. It could be really helpful. Perhaps we can add them to the op.

Essential posted:

I'm with you on the Ghirardelli thoughts. Plus, anything that I've been able to find (official website/huge sign/etc. all spell it GHIRARDELLI, so capital H.

Regarding the image overlay though, did you see my post about her hands pointing to the 3rd and 4th square on her sleeve? 3rd and 4th avenue are on the far west (right) side of GGP. In that sense, an image overlay may prove fruitful. Her hands could literally point right at those roads. Even if it didn't, it may give us an orientation for her GGP image, the snake etc. and maybe something will look right.

Regarding the moons in the image, I count 11 and there are 11 named lakes in GGP IF you count the Lilly Pond. But there are exactly 11 named on google maps.

I wonder if we could get an old forest service map for SF for the early 80's? Doesn't the forest service handle the maps for the whole state? I know I have a few of Northern California where I'm at.

Nendil posted:

SAN FRANCISCO

I showed this thread to my husband who's a Freemason, and he immediately said that Verse 2 was a reference to the Scottish Rite Masonic Hall in SF. Across the street from that is Stern Grove, a lovely park we've yet to visit.

At the place where jewels abound

Masons wear various pendants for their office, referred to as jewels

Fifteen rows down to the ground

Might be literal stairs in the park, or a reference to the 3-5-7 progression (steps) of Masonry

In the middle of twenty-one
From end to end

Edit: 21st Ave seems to continue as that curvy path running through the corner of the park, too.

Only three stand watch

Dunno, would have to go to the location and see

As the sound of friends
Fills the afternoon hours

Stern Grove hosts concerts regularly on Sunday afternoons in the summer months (June??).

Here is a sovereign people
Who build palaces to shelter
Their heads for a night!

http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2012/07/09/hidden_histories_stern_groves_trocadero_inn.php

Ehh, tenuous? There is also a "palace" (Palais de Chaillot) in the Trocad�ro section of Paris...

Gnomes admire
Fays delight
The namesakes meeting
Near this site.

Dunno... yet.

Other possible connections:

There's a lot of clues unaccounted for, but it's an idea that hasn't been suggested yet. The earliest I can go check out Stern Grove is this Saturday, anyone else up to it sooner than that? My husband is free during the week but he would need a ride down from Sonoma.

NoSoup4U posted:

San Francisco

I just want to point out that nobody has made a good match on this barred window yet:

Speculation in the OP said it represented Alcatraz, but the problem is I don't think anything on Alcatraz looks like this. I did some google image searching for 'Alcatraz Window' and the like, nothing comes up like this. The Coit tower has windows with this shape, but no bars. I would expect the casque to be in the immediate vicinity of this window, if we can find it.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2013 16:52

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Cask 2//Charleston

Adiabatic posted:

Charleston

Fort Sumter?

Ixiggle posted:

Looks like it, the old wiki suggests that too. I live in Charleston and its going to be very hard to resist the temptation to go looking for the cask now. No idea where to start on the riddle or the picture though.

The Lion's forehead also has what looks like a map but nothing I can recognize. I'm also leaning toward Verse 5 matching the pic. There's mention of the Citadel which goes with a military theming of the fort sumter clue.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Yeah, this one is pretty clearly Charleston. The pattern on the masks' forehead is the Charleston peninsula from the air, and the shape of the little mask is the shape of Fort Sumter from the air.

Mr.Trifecta posted:

I would say that the totem by the lion, if you look on its head, looks like water ways. Might be worth looking for something similar on the map for a similar waterway with a stretch of land, peninsula like.

fishtobaskets posted:

For Cask 12, I'm not a New Yorker, but the first thing I thought of looking at the picture & reading the verse was Liberty Island.
I realize the statue is green, but in certain light it can look grey and I believe this was even more true pre-restoration (1984-1986) when her color was pretty muted.

The other thing that made me think Liberty island was the hem of the dress in the picture:

If that roughly corresponds to the tip of Manhattan, then the gem could roughly correspond to Liberty Island. I'm ignoring the 4th tiny raindrop in the picture for this purpose.

Looking at an overhead view of the island, there is a "slender path" that leads southeast:

If you walk down that path a ways and look north, you can see Ellis island, which was also at one point named Bucking Island ("isle of B").

There's a bunch of stuff that doesn't fit with this idea (the cars especially don't make a lot of sense), but I thought there was enough to mention. One other problam with the "Isle of B" is that there are at least two other possibilities:
1. Liberty island itself used to be called Bedlam's Island.
2. There used to be an island near Ellis island called Black Tom Island that got blown up in World War I.

e: one other thing I like about this theory is that you can use the actual arm of the statue as a sundial to determine when you're supposed to "take twice as many east steps as the hour." The position of the sundial, "over the slender path," and the season, "summer," are helpfully provided.

allta posted:

So, I was playing around with various image filters, to see if anything happened, and I noticed when on invtert the colours everything(at least in this case) gets a lot easier to see(caution nightmares):

That's the inverted image for cask 2

There's still something on the lions head, but I still don't recognize it.

The Monkey Man posted:

Cask 2

That thing on the lion's head is shaped a little bit like the Holy Roman Empire. (Note that its borders changed quite a bit over the years- this is the closest one I could find)

EDIT: lemontiger's site has no explanation for that thing on the lion's head, for what it's worth.

There's also a big-rear end 36 on the right side of the lion's mane.

EDIT: "stone wall's door" in verse 7 is likely to be a reference to Confederate general Stonewall Jackson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_jackson

bonestructure posted:

Cask 2 - Charleston SC

Sullivan's Island was a good guess, but I think that the verse for this cask is 6, not 5, and it's talking about Hampton Park. The first clue is the huge lion that dominates the image; in the 1950s and 60s, all the way into the early 70s, there was a public zoo in Hampton Park, and its primary attraction was a very unhappy African lion in a small cage. He roared continually, especially at night, and people living around the park complained about him. I remember visiting the park and seeing the lion as a child many times. There are two other things that make me think it's Hampton Park, which are the references to May 1913 and to the Fair remuneration. There was, at the time the book was published, a capstan from the USS Maine in Hampton Park (it has since been moved to White Point Gardens on the Battery) that was put in place in May 1913. Hampton Park was also the site of the Charleston Exposition, which was formally named the Interstate and West Indian Trade Fair. The landscape architect who designed most of the park was John Charles Olmsted, the son of renowned land designer Frederic Law Olmsted (where law defended?.)

There are a number of Confederate monuments in Hampton Park (it's named after a Confederate general, Wade Hampton.) That could fit "Men of tales and tunes, cruel and bold." Another prominent feature of the park when the zoo was open was an aviary ("listen to the birds"), which is close to the park's reflecting pool and fountain ("the cool, clear song of water.") The "white house close at hand" could be the park's large white band stand, which is the only remaining original building from the park's founding (if you interpret loosely, over the years almost all of the individual elements of the bandstand have been replaced at one time or another) or it could refer to the colonial Washington Race Course that was originally on the site. The main building of the Citadel military college across the way is another candidate, though I'd describe it more as a fortress or castle than a house. "Edwin and Edwina named after him" almost makes sense to me, it sounds like a reference to Edwin Harleston and his daughter Edwina (Harleston Village is an area of Charleston close to Hampton Park.) "On the eighth" could be Eighth Avenue, which runs into the park. "Below the bar that binds" sounds like a reference to the bridge that spans the two sides of the long reflecting pool.

I'm not having a lot of luck matching up the images in the illustration other than the lion, though. The round things that are a repeating motif are almost certainly earthquake bolts on the buildings downtown, so it would probably be a matter of looking for bolts with an endcap pattern that matches the drawing. The map overlays pretty well on a map of the downtown peninsula, but I'm not sure what the hairpin shape represents. The legs of it seem to parallel King and Meeting Streets, with White Point Gardens at the end as it goes out into the water. In fact, White Point Gardens was my first thought, but that seemed too easy, the Battery is hands-down the most famous spot in Charleston. The pear, pine tree, and daisy have me baffled.

clockworx posted:

The colors on the mask are also representative of African culture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-African_colours

And Charleston has a strong history in that regard:

http://www.africanamericancharleston.com

Orange_Lazarus posted:

I guess this has already been noticed?

The faerie in the picture could represent the ferry to Fort Sumter.

TotalHell posted:

Charleston, SC

I have to run off to bed, so I've got make this quick. But I want to offer an alternative to the Fort Sumter hypothesis for Charleston. That ornament/face thing definitely looks just like Fort Sumter, but that could just be a clue to Charleston in general, as Sumter is its most famous landmark. Take a look at this for a moment:

See that shadowed line that I've circled that goes into that map of Charleston? See where it ends?

It looks to me like it points to or runs along the edge of that little piece of land right there in the center of Charleston. That little piece of land is place called Hampton Park. And where it may have still been difficult in the early 80s to bury something at a monument like Fort Sumter, it may have been much easier at park that they were trying to renovate and re-invigorate at the time.

Important things to note: this park is very old. Pre-Civil War (as is a lot of stuff in Charleston). If you take Verse 5 into account as the matching verse, this particular park bordered the Citadel. After it was a park, it became a zoo for much of the twentieth century. A zoo which very famously had a lion. It was then turned back into a park in the late 70s.

I'm just saying, in a cursory glance there's a lot here to suggest to me that Hampton Park could be the place. More as I investigate further.

TotalHell posted:

Charleston, SC

I have to run off to bed, so I've got make this quick. But I want to offer an alternative to the Fort Sumter hypothesis for Charleston. That ornament/face thing definitely looks just like Fort Sumter, but that could just be a clue to Charleston in general, as Sumter is its most famous landmark. Take a look at this for a moment:

See that shadowed line that I've circled that goes into that map of Charleston? See where it ends?

It looks to me like it points to or runs along the edge of that little piece of land right there in the center of Charleston. That little piece of land is place called Hampton Park. And where it may have still been difficult in the early 80s to bury something at a monument like Fort Sumter, it may have been much easier at park that they were trying to renovate and re-invigorate at the time.

Important things to note: this park is very old. Pre-Civil War (as is a lot of stuff in Charleston). If you take Verse 5 into account as the matching verse, this particular park bordered the Citadel. After it was a park, it became a zoo for much of the twentieth century. A zoo which very famously had a lion. It was then turned back into a park in the late 70s.

I'm just saying, in a cursory glance there's a lot here to suggest to me that Hampton Park could be the place. More as I investigate further.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

CHARLESTON

There are still a lot of "hits" on the Sullivan's Island / Fort Moultrie theory, though, especially some of those images.

Personally right now I think the most likely theory is somewhere on the coast near Fort Moultrie, with the problem that Hurricane Hugo took down a lot of trees and landmarks around there so those parts of verse may now be indecipherable (hence my suggestion of taking ground penetrating radar). Hampton Park seems a decent theory also due to its proximity to the Citadel and the 1900 West Indian exposition, but the whole lion thing seems like a huge stretch because the lion was gone by 1975 and Preiss wasn't a Charleston native.

Marion Square also is adjunct to the *old* citadel building. I wonder if any of the verses potentially match up with Charles Towne Landing.

McIneri posted:

This morning I took a bit of time before work to take some pictures. This is in reference to CASK 2 and what I believe applies to Charleston VERSE 5.

To preface, this is just what I took from the verse, it might be reaching a bit but the logic does seem to follow in my mind.

I believe that the cask might be somewhere at Marion square, specifically close to the statue of John C. Calhoun shown below

This is just an image of the monument, but it does sort of resemble the shape coming up from the bridge of the nose of the mask. Also, the shape coming from the bridge of the mask's nose is pointing pretty darn close to Marion Square (although it's hard to pinpoint exactly where). "Weight and roots extended Together saved the site." According the monument's website http://ccpl.org/content.asp?id=16261&action=detail&catID=6179&parentID=5908 the statue was originally thought to be ugly and was going to be destroyed up until a new statue was paid for by the ladies of the Calhoun Monument Association (presumably they are the "roots" and the statue is the "weight" that extended to the people of the city.) "Of granite walls." The statue itself is made of granite and as you can see from the image below, there is a small granite wall surrounding the statue.

"wind swept halls citadel in the night." The old citadel building stands on Marion Square right across from the statue. "A wingless bird ascended born of ancient dreams of flight." At one of the cornerstones of the Calhoun Monument lies a box that, according to the monument's website, contains a cannonball used during the battle of Fort Moultire during the Revolutionary War. The cannonball is the "wingless bird" and it was the dream of the United States to part ways with Britain "born of an ancient dream of flight." "Beneath the only standing member of a forest." This one is kind of a stretch but Calhoun is standing and their are palm trees on the statue.

"white stone closest." Well the granite certainly looks white, but there are also these very odd little white stones (presumably offering some kind of aesthetic or structural support) inside the stones making up the wall.

I also walked 12 paces this morning in each direction from the statue and thankfully nothing has been built over the top, it's still all grass. Now the one problem I am having is finding which of the cornerstones actually had the cannonball in it. If we knew that, it might be possible to find the closest white stone, walk 12 paces and dig. In addition to this a few other things that are noticeable about Marion Square is that there is a church across the street, which covers the cross shape found in the lion's mane, and one of the only original sections of the original charleston city wall is there. I don't know if it actually helps but it's a very significant place in Charleston. This is just all I was able to do this morning but I'm going back for sure. From reading the thread I completely agree that it could be at Hampton Park or Fort Sumter but I'm a bit doubtful about Sullivan's island (but who knows really). Hope I was able to help a little bit, I really hope we can all find these things. I'll post more pictures, especially when I go check out Hampton Park.

TotalHell posted:

This post got me thinking, why not White Point Gardens? It may seem too obvious, but wasn't the whole idea that he suspected these things would be found? This is clearly very speculative, but I'd just like to add a case for White Point Gardens into the mix:

White Point Garden
As bonstructure already pointed out, the hairpin shape on the map passes right through the end of White Point Garden. Additionally, The Battery, unlike some of the previous parks mentioned, is one of the places that you can actually see Fort Sumter (as represented by the ornament). The diasy could potentially represent Daisy Breaux Calhoun, famous Charleston socialite, whose husband owned what is now the Battery Carriage House Inn directly across from the Garden. The arches on the map could represent the arches of the bandstand, but obviously they could also represent pretty much any arches at all.

This article goes through the many monuments in the Garden. The problem is making any of the riddles match up to this. There are bits and pieces of different ones that could be significant ("the namesakes meeting" in Verse 2 could literally reference Meeting St., which runs right into the Garden, "men of tales and tunes" in Verse 6 could reference all the war monuments and the bandstand).

Important to note in the above linked article, though, is that the USS Maine capstan was moved from Hampton Park to the Garden well before this book was written, not since then (1927 specifically). So references to the capstan (the 1913 thing) could actually place it in the Garden.

Chadula posted:

Charleston goon checking in. I agree with many things i've seen since i've been here. The crack to this i suspect is making sure we have the right verse. The citadel is an obvious thing. The thing that has me bothered (if it is verse two) is "Lane Two twenty two" and "Get permission to dig out". The first thing seems like it'd help with location in terms of an address, and the lader would seem to be that it WOULDN"T be in a public place. As you'd have to ask to dig. Also, assuming this guy had lots of time on his hands, he probably wouldn't have buried it in plain public sight/view. It takes time to dig 3 feet in the ground.....

bonestructure posted:

I'm still convinced that Cask 2 - Charleston goes with Verse 6, and a lot of it could fit White Point Gardens. Maybe the parts that didn't make it into the image are in the verse instead.

Of all the romance retold
Men of tales and tunes
Cruel and bold
Seen here
By eyes of old

could be a reference to pirates who were hanged there. There's a monument in WPG about pirates, including Blackbeard, who blockaded Charleston Harbor at one point. There are definitely plenty of tales and tunes about pirates, and they were cruel and bold. The bodies were left on gibbets after hanging as a warning to other pirates.

Stand and listen to the birds
Hear the cool, clear song of water

That could be the little dancing girl water fountain.

Harken to the words:
Freedom at the birth of a century
Or May 1913

I guess this could be the Maine capstan, which was in WPG at the time the book was written (thanks for the correction, TotalHell!) It's gone now, but there is a statue of General Moultrie on the same spot that could be used to orient instead.

Edwin and Edwina named after him
Or on the eighth a scene
Where law defended

I got nothin'.

Between two arms extended

could be the little dancing girl, or it could be the Fort Sumter monument, which shows a man standing in front of a woman, both with their left arms raised.

Below the bar that binds
Beside the long palm's shadow
Embedded in the sand
Waits the Fair remuneration
White house close at hand.

Nothing comes to mind here, other than there are a lot of damned palmetto trees to rule out as the "long palm."

I was thinking the same thing as Hieronymous Alloy and TotalHell... if he really did expect the boxes to be found in a matter of months, I can't see this one being buried somewhere extremely difficult to get to or obscure. This is one of the most famous and best-known spots in Charleston, but it would still be easy to bury something unobserved, just do it outside of tourist season and at night, and you're golden. "Embedded in the sand" makes me wonder if it is buried under one of the walking paths running through WPG, they are smooth rolled sand.

Then again, the litany of the jewels that BJG posted points to a specifically African monument or area for the cask:

Africa's Diamond, earth-born star,
Bright harvest of the midnight rock. ---- (P2)

and to my knowledge there are no monuments in WPG that mention Africa or African-Americans.

It would work in Charleston. Lots of loose sandy soil here and very few rocks. But yes, other places you're not going to get too far poking the ground with a stick.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I think that's just a reference to diamond == africa = slave fairy in the picture, Charleston's history of slavery, etc. The midnight rock is presumably coal.

And, of course, there's a white house and a palm tree right here:

http://goo.gl/maps/5hp4c

If you go over the battery wall and down there's rock and sand at the base of the wall. There's even a little beach about a block down the street at the base of the wall. No palm trees though that I remember anyway, not down there.

Edit: here's the little mini-beach, white house and palm tree nearby:

http://goo.gl/maps/uQPIu

The benefit of that beach is it's a place it would be easy to go digging around in.

bonestructure posted:

The Battery and that little spit of sand down in the corner by Water St are continually pounded by the waves in the harbor. The "beach" changes in size and shape from month to month and sometimes from day to day if there are storms. Anything buried there would almost certainly be washed away.

I figured diamond for Charleston because of the daisy in the picture. Daisy is the birth flower for the month of April, and diamond is the birthstone for April.

Edit: Also, it's hard to tell from the view above, but the silted-up sand beach in the corner is about a ten-foot drop from the Battery above (a bit higher or lower depending on the silt level at the time.) It's actually pretty difficult to get to. This photo shows it a little better.

Edit: Hieronymous Alloy and TotalHell, are y'all still local? We should all meet up at the Battery with our poking sticks and see if we can figure this out.

TotalHell posted:

Plus that spit of sand is a far enough away from the battery that it seems to me like it would be an odd place to point to if the Garden was your starting location.

Edit: I wish I was a local! I love Charleston. My mother's from there, and I still have extended family there. Wife and I go down for a week every other year and stay on the Isle of Palms to get together with my parents and siblings. This year is actually the year we'll be going again, and I would love to meet up in the city, but that isn't happening for another two months (around August 11th or so).

But I love doing research on this kind of stuff, so until I'm down there I will continue to do what I can from a distance!

BJG posted:

The central theme of this book is the migration of elven races to America. In most cases the connection between a country and the location is probably just that it's connected with the influx of a certain people; eg Charleston's general African-American heritage.

The litany and introduction may also contain additional clues however. Eg:

The month indicator in this image is the watch at 1.00, which gives us January -> Garnet. The corresponding litany entry is:

Fairies of England proudly bear
Garnet, crown-jewel of their Queen

Roanoke is associated with England and the Lost Colony. But beyond that, the Elizabethan Gardens which feature in the verse were named after the English Queen, and there's a statue of her there.

McIneri posted:

In reference to CASK 2 in Charleston. I have some excellent fuel to add to the fire. While at work today my girlfriend (who works for the Ft. Sumter National Monument) took one of the Ft. Sumter brochures and drew the same clock dial seeming lines onto the map.

In just an excellent turn of events, there happens to be an old projectile from the bombardment during the civil war in close to the exact place the hour hand is pointing. I have actually seen this exact projectile many times during outings to the fort. If we have any potential places to look on Ft. Sumter, I think that's one. Also, since my girlfriend works at Ft. Sumter, she actually knows and is friends with the curator of the site. I can't make any kind of promises, but she is a really cool person who I bet would be into the idea of even thinking about letting us dig there. Now again, not sure if it is there, but several on here seem to think it might be.

TotalHell posted:

This is an excellent idea. I am 100% copying you for the Charleston treasure. It'll make keeping our thoughts organized and sharing ideas much easier:

The Link to the Charleston Treasure Spreadsheet

I haven't added any of the clues or ideas yet. As you'll see, it has a separate sheet for each verse, divided by line (great organizational idea, Plaid Jacket!), as well as the picture itself, with space for ideas as well as columns for four main contender areas: Fort Sumter, Hampton Park, Marion Square, and White Point Garden. I wanted to get it up and running, and I'll be back to add to it later this evening. Please feel free to add anything we've come up with from this thread or elsewhere. Just keep it focused on Charleston!

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

CHARLESTON

A few more thoughts, some of which may be repetitious:

Presuming we're on verse six:

Those three lines seem like they're the "x marks the spot" for this verse.

"Between two arms extended" seems like it probably means the two arms of a statue. There are two separate statues in Charleston's White Point Gardens that have extended arms. The first is the Confederate Memorial out on the point. Two statues each waving an arm around. If that's it, the "Bar that Binds" could be the dike wall of Charleston, which bars the ocean from flooding the city and binds the city together as well. "Beside the long palm's shadow" could be a palmetto tree or the palm of a statue (perhaps at the time of day/month noted on the clock?). One interesting point with this theory is that inset into the dike wall, directly opposite and in front of the Confederate Memorial statue, is a marker pointing out Fort Sumter dead ahead in the harbor and Fort Moultrie off to the side.

There's another statue with an extended arm in the park, though -- the Sergeant Jasper memorial. If we draw a line between that and the Confederate memorial, that would be "between two arms extended" also.

If we really want to get crazy "arms" could refer to the cannons.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2013 16:54

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Cask 3//Roanoke Island

Strongylocentrotus posted:

Cask 3 clarification question: the map you posted at the top indicates Kill Devil Hills as the supposed site, but in your second post you say it is thought to be on Roanoke Island. There's a pretty significant difference between the two places, and it would help to know which one people think it is and why.

e: Assuming it is indeed supposed to be in Roanoke and not Kill Devil Hills, then

May refer to the colonist and artist John White, who made maps of the Roanoke area.

e2: Okay, it's Roanoke, not Kill Devil Hills. There's a silhouette of Roanoke Island in the stones to the right of the armored man. Given that plus the white carnation imagery, I suspect that the Elizabethan Gardens in Manteo may be the site. Part of the garden has a "circle and a square" with a path that leads from it to the coast - that is, presumably to driftwood. No idea what the "mica" is, though.

Strongylocentrotus posted:

Well, here's how I just (as in minutes ago) reached my conclusion about Roanoke being the locale of #3:

Painting on left, satellite shot and map of Roanoke on right.

As for exactly where the cask can be found on the island, that's going to be a lot tougher to work out. Going by what the OP said about these things tending to be in parks, that narrows the possibilities down a bit, and like I said in my first post, my kneejerk reaction is to think it's the Elizabethan Gardens.

Premeditated Toast posted:

I grew up on the Outer Banks, and I think they may in fact be referring to it STARTING at Roanoke Island:

"Verse 11
Pass two friends of octave (The towns of Manteo and Wanchese on the island)
In December
Ride the man of oz (Go over the Washington Baum Bridge)
To the land near the window
There's a road that leads to
Dark forest (Oceanside Drive to Nagshead Woods, our local "haunted forest" park. Oh and look, the armor in the picture is sporting the helmet of an old horse's head!)"

The rest would then seem to indicate specific directions inside the park perhaps (which has indeed changed a lot since the 80's). I don't live there anymore but my sister does, maybe I can get her to scope it out. It could be the Elizabethen Gardens, but the "Ride the Man of Oz" line makes me think otherwise.

Sham I Am posted:

That the first line could be referring to Octave Chanute, who was friends with and helped out the Wright brothers. That would start you at kill devil hills. If that is the case I think you'd be going across the Baum bridge the opposite way than you are saying here, right? If you take The Window in "the land near The Window" to mean the Lost Colony Amphitheater, then it could still be the Elizabethan gardens.

ETA: and this line �From this hallowed ground they walked away through the dark forest and into history.� is apparently on a plaque at the entrance of the gardens.

Sham I Am posted:

That is where the Elizabethan gardens that we have been talking about are located.

Strongylocentrotus posted:

^^ Interesting interpretation of the wing bit. I think you can look toward the Wright Bros. Memorial from that trail...

Oho, your interpretation makes sense. Nags Head woods had actually crossed my mind when I first read the verse (the "dark forest" and "trail to mica and driftwood" parts), but I jumped back to thinking Roanoke when I found the island's silhouette in the painting.

It'd be great if your sister could do some on-the-scene investigation. I haven't visited the Outer Banks in years, and now that I live on the opposite side of the country, I probably won't be going back anytime soon, alas. I can only speculate based on my memory of the place.

Rehashing what people have proposed thus far and adding some thoughts of my own:

* So apparently the path from the sunken garden to the sound is called the "Water Gate Walk". Guess when the Watergate scandal heated up for Nixon? That's right, July and August.

I'm going to go ahead and propose that Cask 3 is buried somewhere below the gate in the Elizabethan Gardens here:

You're welcome, now send me some of that sweet sweet money and/or a shard from the cask that I can frame.

Mnemosyne posted:

Sorry it's so sloppy, I'm using the touchpad of a laptop (and it's 3am).

EDIT: This may also be hopelessly grasping, but the shape of the red "skirt" on the suit of armor has been bugging me. It's very weird looking, so it has to mean something. The only things I've been able to think of that it kind of resembles are either a pinecone or the boughs of a pine tree...and from that one picture of the gate leading to the beach, there's a pine tree right next to the gate.
http://i.imgur.com/WTIGfz2.jpg

Mnemosyne posted:

I'm not from the area, but the history I read said they built the gardens in the 50's, and placed that gazebo at the top of the circle loop in April of 1981, which is probably very close to when he buried the casks.

Which actually maybe ties in with another part of the verse? The history says the gazebo (very close to the gate to the beach that's been mentioned) "is situated at a site overlooking the Roanoke and Currituck Sounds, very possibly the spot were Sir Richard Grenville, Walter Raleigh�s cousin, first set foot in 1585 upon his arrival with a fleet of seven ships and 108 men."

Could this be related to the "first seen" line?

EDIT: There's also a dot/rivet on the wrist of the armor at the top right of the circular loop of the path. The dot looks like it corresponds with where the gate opens onto the beach. I originally thought it was just a feature of the armor, but there isn't a matching dot on the other wrist, so maybe it's intentional?

Premeditated Toast posted:

Cask 3/Roanoke
Besides some minor renovations over the years, yeah it's stayed the same. I also noticed this while looking at your pics, Mnemosyne:

That's the Wright Brothers Memorial as seen from across the waters! I'd guess to say it's buried by one of the gate pillars, which has a ball top. As for the pine tree, I recall there being a lot more around that area but my memory could be fuzzy.

Premeditated Toast posted:

Cask 3/Roanoke
I will be heading to Roanoke Island to check out the possible Cask #3 location either Tuesday or Wednesday of this coming week if all goes to plan I'm still waiting to hear back from my dad and sister and I'm trying to shift work schedules around. My dad would probably eat this kind of stuff up but he's old and has a bad back and probably couldn't do any fence-hopping or digging.

I went to school with most of the Sheriff Deputies so if worse comes worst I'll pull the "Small Town" card. I'm also calling around to see if I know anyone in the Park Service over there. The place is more or less abandoned at night, but I'd prefer to do this the "right" way, or at the very least as close to "right" as possible and not piss anybody off.

Strongylocentrotus posted:

Any idea how much storm surge exposure the northern soundside stretch of Roanoke's coast gets? I hope it hasn't been washed over too badly in the last two decade's storms. A sandy shore isn't the most stable of all places.

Mnemosyne posted:

Cask 3 / North Carolina

More confirmation about the location. The image is full of things that have to be relevant, which I just haven't placed yet. One of them is the multiple bells (and keys). From here:

http://www.kitchensaremonkeybusiness.com/2008/02/another-stroll-through-elizabethan.html

"The parterres in the Sunken Garden are in the shapes of boats and in the shapes of bells. A gentleman named Bell did the back-hoe work when digging this area out, plus bells go along with the boats."

Concept Theory posted:

After showing the poem for the Sullivans Island location to one of my coworkers, he suggested reading the poem in reverse. It actually kinda makes sense that way. Any thoughts? Photos coming when I get off work.

Sham I Am posted:

Roanoke

Sorry for the image dump here, but I just cut out a couple of things that looked odd in the Roanoke image. I don't know what any of it means (nothing to confirm my wright brothers landing area theory), but maybe something will catch the eye of one of the folks that lived there or are more familiar with the Elizabethan Gardens, or maybe some of this is on a statue or something?

the spoon at the bottom right was bugging me, so I cut it out and made it larger and marked it up (poorly).

It is hard to tell, but I think it is a lever coming out of the wall, not a spoon. the handle of the spoon might also be coming out of the face of a lion or dog or something? it could just be poor quality image and me imagining things too. The lever is being held from flipping up by a pin on the left side, right above the bowl of the spoon. if you look at the whole image, it looks like there is a string or line of some type coming from a hook on the arm of the armor down to the middle of the spoon.

The left side has something similar as well, with the line coming out of the arm into an anchor or something on the floor.

This is the piece hanging off of the right arm of the armor, where the key ring is hanging from. blown up, it looks like a fox head looking to the left.

the air hole patterns on face plate of the cow helmet (the inset in the above image) looks very similar to the layout of the the sunken garden.

this is an image on the left side of the chest plate. I thought it was a butterfly at first, but now I think it is a clover or maybe a tree? My wife (who now thinks I am nuts) suggested a scepter or an angel of some kind. The texture around it strikes me as odd as well; rocks or sand?

this is from the lower right side a little ways below the bell. it looks like writing of some kind. I'm guessing it is the artists signature, but I cant tell. The text is really faint, so it might be nothing, but it does look like it may be something.

just a dump of the symbols on the armor, the keys and the bells in the hope that someone would get hit by some inspiration on what they may represent.

also if anyone actually goes to the gardens, could you see if they have a map of the trails? maybe they match up to the cracks on the wall.

E: for some clarification

Comstar posted:

The thread mentions there was a lot of brambles(?) at the place they thought it might be, and too many people around to do it without attracting attention.

That sunken garden looks to be a match for the helmet air holes. Looks like a clover to me. The writing looks to be an upside down "Fd" or "Ed" and I thought the artist initial's were different?

I could see this being made into a Big Bang Theory episode- Shelden goes mad trying to link the clues together and at the end of the episode they all get arrested for trying to dig something up and looking like they are about to plant an IED.

That or a remake of it's A Mad Mad World but each team is from a different internet forum or community all racing each other to the treasure. The movie is sponsored by Google Maps, Street view and Search Engine.

Edgecrush_td posted:

Cask 3: Roanoke Island NC

The bells in the photo may relate to:
1952 � Albert �Skipper� Bell begins clearing and doing preliminary work on TEG and later helps with the initial plantings.

Strongylocentrotus posted:

One of those (upper right) is St. George's Cross, which flies on flags above the entrance to the Elizabethan Gardens.

Sham I Am posted:

Roanoke

That is the Virginia Dare statue in the EG, which I think may call for some further examination.

After circle and square

I have been assuming this means the sunken gardens, but if you look at the map...

...the sunken gardens could be the square and the well head the circle. So after the circle and square, following that path, would be either the the Dare statue or (obviously) the other side of the sunken garden, which would lead to the gazebo. (BTW, the gazebo was built in 1981, right around the time that I think the author was burying things. If he got there while it was being built, it may have been the easiest place for him to bury something.)

In July and August
A path beckons
To mica and driftwood

Virginia Dare was born in August. Her statue was originally crafted in Italy out of marble (does marble have any relation to mica?) but it was lost in a shipwreck while in transit and lived on the ocean floor for a few years before it was recovered. Maybe that is the driftwood reference.

The pedestal that the dare statue sits on looks a lot like the pedestal that suit of armor in the illustration sits on.

Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing

This is probably far fetched, but the statue itself is the artists rendition of what Virginia Dare would have looked like as an adult, since she actually died as a child. So the above lines could be interpreted as the first time anyone has seen Virginia Dare standing, since she died as a child (possibly even an infant), and the statue being the last time you could touch her.

It would be awesome if you could see the Wright Memorial, even just barely, from that spot, but even if you cant it would be interesting to dig on the north side of the statue (the side facing the wright memorial).

The "In July and August" line is killing me. Someone mentioned a stone that had it written on it...

This is the monument stone that says July and August on it (if you look closely you can tell it also has a cross on the top that is very similar to the one on the armors breast in the illustration). Unfortunately, I cant seem to find where the actual stone is located at. Any one have any idea?

BJG posted:

Hi all -

I posted up the Lemontiger stuff, and I'm "White Rabbit" at Quest4Treasure. I thought I'd drop in here after a couple of folks emailed me about it, and it's a revelation...great going! It'll take me a while to catch up with all this. Just a quick thought on Roanoke:

Most of us at Q4T think it's somewhere in the area of this...

(A sign with two maps by White on the Harriot Trail with a view of the Wright Brothers "wing")

...or this...

The Water Gate at the Elizabethan Gardens.

A guy called Paul Kitchen put a fairly recent collection of Roanoke photos here...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8079704@N04/collections/72157629176347805/

Sham I Am posted:

This sounds plausible, but it bothers me that it is so out of line with the rest of the verse. the entire verse is linear, it leads you from the wright museum, to the bridge, to the gardens, but then in order for the above picture to be accurate you have to think he randomly inserted a line that tells you the final destination, and then followed it up by going back to a linear description of where to go.

Looking at the google map...

...and now knowing where the marker stone is, I have to ask why we are assuming the sugar bowl is inside the gardens? the verse is...

To the land near the window
There's a road that leads to
Dark forest

...while I cant figure out what "the land near the window" refers to (yet), there is nothing there to definitively say we should actually be going into the Elizabethan gardens themselves, just that we should follow the road that leads to it. The plaque that we get the dark forest reference from actually says �From this hallowed ground they walked away through the dark forest and into history� which could be interpreted to mean the dark forest itself is our destination, not the Elizabethan gardens. This actually fits in with the verse, which just says go to the dark forest; we have all just assumed it meant the gardens because some clues later on kind of fit with that idea, but only if we disregard the verse being linear.

Where white is in color
With two maps
After circle and square

Has anyone considered the road at the right of the google maps image as being the circle and square instead of the sunken garden (see previously badly marked image)? If everything in the verse is linear (and up to this point it has all been linear, so no reason to think it would change now), then the line "where white is in color" could just mean the areas that White mapped and he almost assuredly mapped the fort (in color=live and in person vs the monotone of a map), and the circle and square would be the parking lot/road (assuming it has not been rebuilt since 1981/82). Is there a couple of whites maps of the fort/colony on display anywhere by chance?

In July and August
A path beckons
To mica and driftwood

if the above is correct, then this would possibly refer to the 1896 stone. I pointed out in an earlier post that the top of the stone has a symbol on it that looks a lot like one of the symbols on the armor of the illustration...

I haven't been to the outer banks in years, so I cant remember the area all that well. Is there a path from that stone that leads to the ocean by chance? Are there other statues, monuments, markers or anything else along that trail that may hold similar clues (if the path even exists)?

BJG posted:

It's thought to mean the map of Roanoke which appears next to the window in the image.

It's difficult to find image matches in this one. I was wondering about the railing by the White maps sign...would like to get some more pics of that area.

JG_Plissken posted:

Cask 3 is at the Memorial Tower atop Kevin Devil Hill not far from Roanoke (drive across the bridge into Nags Head and turn north). The tower is a memorial to the Wright brothers who are friends with Octave Chanute.

The tower is made of granite (which contains mica) and bears the phrase "In commemoration of the conquest of the air by the brothers Wilbur and Orville Wright conceived by genius achieved by dauntless resolution and unconquerable faith."

The verse contains the lines

Strongylocentrotus posted:

Roanoke

Given the amount of construction on the island over the past few decades, there has got to be some kind of exception, or Tweleve.org is overstating things. Plus the Elizabethan Garden folks are inevitably digging up and planting new plants in the garden every once in awhile, that's just part of maintaining an arboretum. Perhaps there are only issues regarding messing around at the historical site of Fort Raleigh?

Anyway, Premeditated Toast posted that he has contacts in the local park service, so maybe he can get clearance/confirmation from them about whether it's okay to do some shallow digging around the gardens.

I don't entirely follow the arguments that the the cask is at the Wright Brothers Memorial. Everything in the poem and image so far point to Roanoke, and specifically the Elizabethan Gardens, as the most likely location. See my summary here and the stuff Mnemosyne found in the image here (as well as Premeditated Toast's observation here). All of that seems way, way more suggestive of the gardens than Kill Devil Hills. As I'm interpreting things, the Wright Bros. Memorial is important as a reference point but not as the actual location.

Sham I Am posted:

Roanoke

We all agree that the verse leads you to the Elizabethan garden itself (though another theory of mine is that it doesn't take you into the garden, and instead you follow the path by the 1896 marker stone). It is then possible that it is leading you down the path to where you can see the wright memorial (I think the path by the marker stone ends at the beach where you can see the memorial from as well, though neither I nor my wife remember for sure and no one has confirmed that to me yet). So one way or another we get to the point where we can see the wright memorial from across the water.

A Path beckons
To mica and driftwood
Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing

The memorial is made out of granite, which has a lot of mica in it, and it looks like a wing. Also, earlier someone pointed out that the bit of armor sticking up on the right arm looks like the wing from across the water. The driftwood could be a reference to going across the water, ending up at the memorial. "Under that which may last be touched or first seen standing" is a complete mystery to me.

As for the memorial itself, if you have crossed the water already then when we look at the following lines...

Look north at the wing
And dig
To achieve
By dauntless and inconquerable
Determination
Your goal.

..."look north at the wing" does not mean stand at the Elizabethan gardens and look north towards the wing, it then mean go to the wing and look north. In other words, The line could correctly be read to be saying "Look north [while standing] at the wing"

I think it might be at the landing spot of the first flight because that is north of the wing itself, and that would be the goal that the wright brothers were shooting for; a successful flight. So "By dauntless and inconquerable Determination" they reached their goal of successful flight and landing. The verse says that is our goal as well.

A few other things that may indicate this are that the armor in the image itself looks a bit like the wright brothers plane with its arms extended and the wooden supports and wires around them. I think the field that the brothers flew from was grazing land for cattle, which might explain the helmet looking so bovine like.

Plus, the part about the wing and the Wright brothers at the end of the verse is 6 lines long. That is fully 30% of the verse which are dedicated to it (not including the first 2 lines of the entire verse); it seems as if this might be more important than just telling you that you should be able to see the memorial from the spot where the sugar bowl is buried.

And now that I think about it, you could look at the verse as a whole as a clue for the hunt; it starts by talking about the memorial and then after a bunch of twists and turns it ends by talking about the memorial again. Maybe that is what we should be doing, starting at the memorial, following the twists and turning clues, and then ending up back at the memorial, which is our "goal".

I wish I could go to the wright brothers museum and memorial to see if anything in the illustration matches up with it.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2013 16:55

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Cask 6//St. Augustine

Way Strong Pimphand posted:

So this thread has officially eaten up a majority of my night, but I think I may have finally gotten somewhere with Cask #6.

According to the wiki, the coordinates within the image seem to be placed at 41 or 44 and 82 or 83. These coordinates don't exactly lead to anything significant. I analyzed the picture a bit more and, for me, the coordinates seem to place the cask somewhere in the Florida Keys at 24, 83. More specifically the coordinates lead to Dry Tortugas National Park which, shockingly enough, was first discovered by Ponce de Leon. People can't seem to disassociate de Leon with St. Augustine, which I'm assuming is why people think the cask is hidden somewhere in that area.

The verse containing information about water most likely references the park's nature, which is comprised primarily of water. According to the wiki, the park has been heavily associated with sunken treasure. And drat that tree in the picture can be found everywhere in official park photos.

http://www.nps.gov/akr/photosmultimedia/photogallery.htm?id=89404A1F-1DD8-B71C-07C25C8631876288

And while I might be going mad, seeing as it's 4 AM and I'm analyzing a 30 year old buried treasure map, I swear it looks like a turtle and tern appear within the image as well. (both of which are tied to regional wildlife)

Stars move by day
Sails pass by night

Could this be referencing transportation to and from the island? During the daytime: planes (stars move by day) and at night: boats. (sails pass by night) I LITERALLY HAVE NO loving IDEA

I'll work on this more tomorrow.

The Adama posted:

I don't know about the turtle, but I definitely get a very dolphin/shark feel off of the upper right part of the rock. Maybe it's an indication that the site will have a view of the ocean?

Edit: Hah, just looked at a pic of the park. I guess it would be impossible for it to NOT have a view of the ocean. Also, I want to go there now, that's beautiful. Anyway, it supports your idea of the local wildlife.

lnhostetler posted:

I have a tenuous hypothesis regarding the Florida image. One line in Verse 9 reads, "At the base of a tall tree". What if that's referring to the tall tree pictured and the base of it, like 'X', marks the spot? Also, a Royal Palm (in the picture) Boulevard and a Rock Island (also pictured) Road, intersect in Margate, Florida--which is close to the base of the tree on the map. I might be reaching on this, I'm not sure.

I'm curious why everyone assumes it's Ponce de Leon on the horse. A lot of other conquistadors roamed Florida. What if it's De Soto, Cortez, or De Vaca?

One (probably random) association I found is the position of the horseman relative to the negative outline of Florida. The horseman is positioned near Apalachicola River, where the "Bay of Horses" incident took place.

allta posted:

I did some playing around with cask 6/St. Augustine,Fl and when you set the image to a high transparency(effictivly ignoring everything but the outlines of objects) you get left with a something a tad different:

Note:depending on your monitor and settings you may have to look at it from a different angle.

That cant be a coincidence right?

Edit:Here's an outline I did in mspaint, I'll try to just isolate what I'm trying to show, sorry for all of the confusion!

allta posted:

This is the clearest I can get it before the face starts getting distorted.

Edit:got it a bit clear

Rondette posted:

ah yes, that also to my mind shows 2 others. The one circled in white looks upside-down to me.

Kaiser Soze posted:

When I saw the image for cask 6 on page one I immediately thought it looked like a face wearing a helmet, like a WW2 military style or a baseball helmet. The verse uses the words "base" and "limestone" (the lines on baseball fields are made with powdered limestone) and a green fence. So baseball field was my first impression combined with the helmet and face, but I often have baseball on the brain so I'm biased.

allta posted:

Cask 6/St.Augustine,FL
Is it possible that the statue head thing is actually just saint Augustine?

Part of me just thinks that's way too easy though.

KennyMan666 posted:

Okay, there's one thing about the cask 6 picture that I keep seeing. I see it easier when the image is zoomed out, so this is not clickable:

That, to me, looks like the head of a snake or some other reptile. The gemstone as the eye, and a fang below it.

Mescal posted:

More thoughts on verse 9. It almost feels like this poem was written by a different person than the others. The cadence is different. The rhythm seems to serve another purpose: maybe the syllables make up numbers. Syllable count by line:

4
5
2
3
6
6
7
7
6
4
4
4
6
5
4

This is also one of only two poems that use only mono- and duo-syllabic words. Verse 12 is the other.

Fistgrrl posted:

It's not been getting much play, but St. Augustine seems like the park is confirmed. It's marketed as an "archaelogist" park. I wonder if anyone's called the park and asked about digging for this treasure. Seems like it would be good PR for the park.

Verse 9
The first chapter
Written in water
Near men
With wind rose
Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
At the base of a tall tree
You can still hear the honking
Shell, limestone, silver, salt
Stars move by day
Sails pass by night
Even in darkness
Like moonlight in teardrops
Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls.

From the tweleve.org forums, proof:

- SELOY (the village of Seloy) as is the word formed by the first letter of the last five lines of Verse 9
- Is surrounded by a green picket fence
- Has a sign at the the entrance that says The First Chapter
- Has a marquee for an exhibit that says "shell, limestone" and another "silver, salt"
- Has an actual Wind Rose, sign saying wind rose and subsequent exhibt.
- Has a statue that looks very much like the man on the horse (actually, more than one in the park).
- Has a sign in the park depicting the coastal outine of the park that matches the face in the Image 6 rock hill almost exactly.
- Has signs nearby matching the arrowhead outline of Lower Right blue hue section of the image.
- Has many lone palm trees about the property (ambiguous)

Here's the sign at the entrance:

Hot Dog Day #98 posted:

Does anyone else see this or am I seeing what I want to see?

Cask #6

The Park

The Painting

Edit: It has been some time since this was painted so I figure erosion and whatnot could account for them not being quite exact. Also note the rock in the painting and the shape of the lower part of the park. Quite similar.

SheepNameKiller posted:

Cask 6

One thing to take into consideration is that google earth didn't exist at the time of the publication of this book, meaning if that is a top-down photo it had to have either been drawn from a helicopter or copied from an existing map of the park from that time period. I'd suspect the latter, so it would be worth looking at public records for maps of the park from the 80s and see if they share a similar geography to the picture.

BJG posted:

Nine flowers gives us September -> Sapphire.

The Hadas of Iberia:
Sapphire, shy as a wild field flower

Connected with this, the introduction relates how...

For slow centuries, the exotic Dracs and Fadas from the Riviera had sported and dozed on the beaches of new-found Florida. Perhaps the metal-clashing landfall of the Conquistadores took them by surprise and they fled without taking time to disenchant their Fountain of Youth.

This image and verse lead to the Fountain of Youth in Florida. Hadas and Fadas are the same thing; the words have the same root. And the picture shows us a conquistadore; Ponce de Leon.

sublyme posted:

Finding more links to stone mountain being verse #7 with cask 6 picture:

(From wiki) "Europeans first learned of the mountain in 1597, when Spanish explorers were told of a mountain further inland which was "very high, shining when the sun set like a fire.""

The conquistador on top of that mountain certainly fits that time frame, on a stone mountain, which as I said before, Stonewall Jackson is literally on Stone Mountain, on a horse as well.

Also the stone mountain in the distance, the reflection in the water doesn't quite match it...it actually looks similar to stone mountain (turn the image upside down and look).

Also, the "ace is high" reference - the name of the three horses on the stone wall of stone mountain are Blackjack, Traveller, and Little Sorrel. (The gentlemen are, Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and the aforementioned Stonewall Jackson. The only thing that messes this up is that Blackjack was Davis' horse, not Stonewall's.)

Couple with the other things from my previous post...

Yeah, I'm probably grasping at straws, and there should probably be more recognizable items in the picture if in fact it is....but it's funny how with these verses and images being just vague enough, you can take them out of context any way you want. Guess I should probably rest my brain now.

BJG posted:

Re: high-resolution scans of the images, there's a set here...

http://www.bunnyears.net/misc/secret.zip

Having said that, another set from a different book would still be interesting as it might throw up different details.

Re: The Fountain of Youth, attention has previously been focussed on the area inside the park, but since it's a private ticketed attraction and archaeological site, that seems unlikely.

I was interested in the idea that the white rock would represent this shape in the coastline...

...and the "tall tree" is Magnolia Ave beside it, so the "base" is the bottom of Magnolia by the old entrance.

Several lines in the verse refer to the planetarium (the stars/sails/wind rose are all there) so I was wondering if the domed rock might represent the planetarium. Here it is seen over the wall from Magnolia Ave.

Other possible image matches at the bottom of Magnolia include the pillars...

...this wall, with green picket fence...

...and this cannon...(bottom pic is just to make the match clearer)...

Maybe the hydrant...?

...the palm...

There are "bending branches" galore...

My favourite spot is somewhere in the corner near that cannon. I'm curious to know what this red square on the fence is.

Anyways, someone should go dig up Magnolia Ave.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2013 16:56

allta: Mar 28, 2011

I've got to run now but the rest will be up periodically in a less spammy fashion, I'll also link them in the op. The main reason for all of this is the constant circles from someone missing a post on page 5 or 6 and then bringing up idea's we've already covered. It will also help with people who only care about 1 cask in particular!

# ¿ Jun 5, 2013 16:58

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Flewdefur posted:

Desperation and lack of progress have driven everyone to more and more radical solutions that may become too clever for our own good. It�s only natural that if we can�t find something obvious we look for something more obscure. I want to help lay down some guiding principles for anyone starting the hunt or laying down theories.

1. The best clue is a treasure found and we have two. If you haven�t started by looking at those, then you�re at a serious disadvantage.

2. Locations of the last two were parks, near walls or barriers, buried approximately 3.5 feet deep. The cask is very small, and the North American continent is not. If you don�t have a terrific idea of where it is, don�t bother breaking ground.

3. Don�t put too much stake in a theory unless it has resulted in treasure. It doesn�t matter if the theory was made by someone who spent a decade searching, it can still be total bunk. You can evaluate the evidence they used. For example, I can see that while many have pointed to Golden Gate Park, the only evidence is that the dress sort of resembles the shape. The shape is a rectangle, and it�s not a great match. Unless there�s some other compelling reason, that�s a theory without much weight. The Fort Sumter map on the other hand has the weight of a thousand elephants.

4. The two successful treasures both have been found entirely by clues that are one layer deep. There has always been some sort of silhouette of a recognizable building or object. In fact, there were several in each image. These are images of objects you can find and point to that match the images exactly. Sometimes it includes statues that are not even very well obscured. There has not yet been a clue which has relied on a ton of depth.

5. Not all theories are created equal. Simple and direct is better than a convoluted mess. Theories relying on fewer layers and more direct meanings are better. Theories that are deep and convoluted sound fantastic and brilliant and can lure us in, but that does not mean they are good in the context of this puzzle. Evidence points to the contrary.

Example
Good Theory: That outline is an exact match of this streetlight.

Bad Theory: The eleven moons in the San Francisco picture represent Apollo 11. The president at the time was Nixon. Nixon went to China, and the opera house in San Francisco once had a play called Nixon in China. The treasure is at the opera house.

5. A valuable clue has to be distinct and eminently recognizable as such. Circles, rectangles, spirals, or pillars are not distinct. There are billions of them in any city. There are billions of things named after Lincoln or Twain, and even more things that caught their attention at some point.

6. The picture is the key to it all. In both of the found treasures, the evidence pointing to the location was almost entirely in the picture. To stay on the right path, you should not even look at the poems until there is substantial evidence from the picture relating a few landmarks or objects.

7. The poems are almost more of a fine tuning to the treasure location that uses descriptions of objects and things in the immediate vicinity. They do not tend to be deep, broad clues. These are poetic or somewhat abstract representations of specific concrete objects.

8. Check the date. If it wasn�t around in 1980, then that�s your cue to let it be.

9. Check reality. The author wasn�t some sort of brilliant puzzle making genius who wanted to make the most radically difficult and clever puzzles in the universe. In one of his poems he said �L sits and left beyond his shoulder� and L was used to refer to Lincoln. That�s not clever; it�s really sort of lazy. And remember he also didn�t have Google satellite imagery and an absolute knowledge of the history of every city he visited.

10. In thirty years, a lot can change and has changed. The best clues may have been destroyed or moved.

Note: Feel free to correct any of my assumptions here.

This is in the OP now. i'll add the rest later as well as the links, I'm only passing through right now so I don't particularly have time but I wanted to try a bit of an experiment.

So, humor me for a bit here. Rank all 12 casks in terms of apparent difficulty based on the picture and the verse(if known)

# ¿ Jun 5, 2013 20:16

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 05:13

allta: Mar 28, 2011

Here's everything up until a few pages back for Huston so we don't go in too many circles:

Cask 8//Huston, TX

Disco Nixon posted:

I think the Houston one is referring to Hermann Park. Hermann is the only park with a train which matches up with the riddle. It also has a pond with a fountain that shoots water up. The zoo is nearby, and I think it used to have columns like that around the entrance, but it's gone through many remodels. I can't find a picture of it from the 80s unfortunately. I'm not sure where in the park the treasure would be, I don't know it that well, and don't live in Houston anymore so other Houston goons would have to investigate further.

Edit: I found train 982!!! I think it MUST be in Hermann park.

Disco Nixon posted:

That train has been moved to Minute Maid park, it would be good to know where it used to be.

Nathilus posted:

Good luck finding anything from the 80s by landmark in Hermann Park, though. That's assuming it hasn't been destroyed or made inaccessible by the renovations that have occurred in the meantime. Some kind of archived visual record of the park during that period would be the best you could hope for, and given the area's size I doubt it would be complete. Even learning if that sort of record exists would involve bull-rushing your way past Harris County bureaucracy or having county archives access via professional means. Or, this being Houston we're talking about, perhaps via the Good Old Boy And Money network.

Ghost of Eazy E posted:

I think the Houston one is in this location.
http://goo.gl/maps/FY6bX

I would put my money on the grass area inbetween the monument and the fountain

GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:

Are there animals on the monument? From the Houston picture I'm noticing that the camel pillar doesn't have a shadow.

Also could the line

Our strongest tower of delight
Falls gently
In December night

Be referring to where the shadow of the central tower falls pointing to where to dig? Like some National Treasure poo poo?

Raccoon Leaf posted:

I'm willing to bet that the tower (Pioneer Monument) has something to do with those lines, but here's a picture showing that things have been paved over and that the fountains are a new addition.

If only we could find more old pictures...

Ghost of Eazy E posted:

North of the monument is a statue of Sam Houston on his horse. Maybe about 200 yards north of it.
I'm gonna be in Houston tomorrow. Kinda makes me wanna go look around!

GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:

Good catch on the tree branches, I also see a "95" or a "957" in the branches just to the right of the ball pillar.

Edit: The park is at Longitude -95.3, but the latitude is 29.7. I'm not sure what the 96 symbolizes.

Raccoon Leaf posted:

Houston, Hermann Park.

EDIT: It looks like I'm not the only one who saw this. http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc/thesecret/map/

GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:

Wow. And the ruby is just to the bottom right of that pillar, which looks to me like it would be on the edge of the lake or the small grass area to the south of the Pioneer Monument.

GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:

Here are all the numbers I can find in the Houston picture so far. 30, -95 are really close to the Houston area so I think we're on the right track. Clicking straight on McGovern Lake at http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html doesn't really help with any of the other numbers.

Looking at this aerial view of McGovern Lake, I was trying to find a leaf that looked similar to it for confirmation. Too bad pretty much every leaf looks similar to it. The Pioneer's Monument is at the right hand side of the picture.

Raccoon Leaf posted:

Back from my visit to Hermann Park. I'm sorry to say it was not that productive. A good portion of the park was shut down for private events. There's a Garden Center that was having a staff retreat. They had cops posted at every entrance for some reason. The Miller Outdoor Theater was also blocked off for a children's play. There's a statue called "Atropos Key" on the top of the hill there that I wanted to investigate.

Here are some things, most of which are already obvious:

Single star in the sky = Lone Star = Texas
Numbers = Latitude and Longitude = Houston
Pillar with ball = Outline of the circle at Sam Houston Statue and Reflecting Pool at Hermann Park
982 = Number on Southern Pacific Steam Engine that used to be in Hermann Park (I'm trying to find out exactly where this was)
Seven pillars on image = Seventh Month (July)
Red gem = Ruby (July's Birthstone)
Odd shaped leaf right center in the image = Larkspur (July's Birth Flower)

Here's what I got from a quick Google search of some of the phrases in the verse:
"Fortress North"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_North_America
No clue if that would mean something

"Cold as glass"
Mentioned in Ayn Rand's Anthem to describe train tracks. Trains seem to be a big part of Hermann Park, including the old SP 982 and a mini-railroad system that has a whistle. I'm not sure if the mini train was running in the 1980s.

"Friendship south"

Picture I found online while researching the Garden Center

"In the center of four alike
Small, split,
Three winged and slight
What we take to be
Our strongest tower of delight"
The lemontiger guy linked this quote to a Melville piece that talks about falling leaves, locked caskets, and the three Fates.
The logo for Houston Parks & Recreation is a 3-pronged leaf, and one of the three Fates is named Atropos!
HPARD

Atropos Key statue

Lemontiger seems to think it's around the fence at the golf course. I see a few problems with that. First, even if we assume it's there, the golf course has been remodeled, and so it's probably destroyed. Second, he comes up with a scheme involving the number 11 based on the fact that there are pillars in the image and they look like the number 11. I don't think that makes any sense. Third, he ignores a few clues, including "In the center of four alike", which I think is the most important clue to the location (if we figure out what it means).

Manto posted:

Maybe it was obvious and didn't need pointing out, but in the pic for the Houston treasure there is a stitch like pattern in an arc at the base of the djinn/elemental that could be railroad tracks. I think I've seen railroad tracks depicted like that on maps before. It could be a hint that it is near a bend in the track. If the djinn is a fountain of some sort, the treasure could be near the bend in the track right before coming to the fountain.

GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:

Houston

I was talking to some friends about this tonight and one of them hit on something that may be significant.

"What we take to be
Our strongest tower of delight
Falls gently
In December night"

Could this refer to a Christmas tree? Another friend thought she remembered there being a Christmas tree in the Japanese gardens area, but I can't find anything online about it.

Also I reversed the colors to see if anything else could be revealed here.

1. A strange shape in the leaves up here, not sure if they signify anything.
2. The djinn's wrappings look more like a face here wearing an old floppy hat. A really creepy face and not the best thing to discover while lying in bed in the dark.
3. The shadow of this dune looks like a seated lion
4. I noticed there was something written at the base of this pillar before, but couldn't make it out. It looks like 53 to me, but not sure what that signifies. There are also different numbers of rings above the bases of each pillar. 1 on the closest, 2 on the rhino's, and none on the camel's. The closest pillar also has the number one inscribed on it, the rhino pillar has two leaves in front of it, and I still think it's important that the camel pillar doesn't cast a shadow.

GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:

So I was linked this picture from the Children's Zoo, apparently this thing shoots water out of his cup. This hat looks very similar to the djinn's in the inverted picture, just flipped around so it might be the perspective from the other side of him.

And then there's this, apparently also taken inside the Children's Zoo. I don't know if I can just dismiss the Atropos Key clue, but a lot of the information for it being in the Children's Zoo is pretty compelling.

Mbwuto posted:

I just stumbled onto this thread, but is it possible the Houston image is more or less a literal map? Each pillar representing a sort of landmark you could see with the star orienting you into the proper perspective. One starts at the 982, which is a train, following it through a wooded area. It seems a fountain will be encountered and should be crossed while keeping your perspective in line which I think refers back to the picture itself.

I think you also use the brightest star in the December sky to orient yourself. Whatever object has that star overhead while still maintaining the perspective that puts the zoo exhibits into the right places. And from where the treasure is you can still see the fountain and probably the train. I think the whole thing relies on a perspective that doesn't necessarily make it in the zoo, but uses the zoo as a landmark that you might be able to easily observe from the cask site. I think it was originally buried between four trees, three of which were in poor health possibly.

I'm a little worried using satellite maps is problematic because he would have written these for people with access to only what he had at the time himself. It's why I'm not completely convinced the ball topped tower is that fountain because he would have had to either access a map or some kind of aerial photo which wasn't as easy of a feat then.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2013 22:48

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Let's solve a 40 year old unsolved treasure hunt!

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