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Walh Hara
May 11, 2012
I managed to win the new god hunters campaign in Trials of Fire, pretty fun but not that different than the original campaign at all.

In my opinion the best setup is a hunter going all ranged damage, elementalist going all aoe and either an alchemist or warlord with rally and other support cards. Obviously who you end up using depends on the loot and changes every battle.

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Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Hugoon Chavez posted:

Oh, someone mentioned Trials of Fire in the thread recently and I went ahead and gave it a shot.

It's really good? I wasn't a fan of the idea of miniature-like combat, but it's pretty well done and doesn't take away much from the card based gameplay. Not sure how much depth it has since I've only just unlocked one new card for every class and done one run to the second boss, which destroyed me (but I realized I could've been building my mage a lot better)

I'll be playing it a lot this weekend I believe.

Oh, glad you like it. If you want I could do some writd up about which tactics/cards have worked for me. Personally I'm happy with the depth so far because the devs have been really active adding content.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012
So I started playing Trials of Fire again to see how the early access is going and I'm very impressed. It was already interesting when it launched but with the extra content there's actually tons of replayability now. Plus the gameplay changes (rework of powers and movement cards) are great.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1038370/Trials_of_Fire/

Closest comparison is slay the spire and monster train. It's a combination of deckbuilding, item management and positioning. A run takes 1, 2, or 3 hours depending on the campaign you chose.

Anyone else played it?

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Hugoon Chavez posted:


Edit: I haven't played it in a good few months, definitely need to give it a couple tries and see what is new. New character at the very least!

New character is great (but certainly way too strong, I expect some nerfs). The change to movement cards is very recent and has huge consequences: most movement cards give willpower now. It makes a lot of builds viable, changes the melee/range balance, and results in everybody having more willpower to do things.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Osmosisch posted:

(...) feels much more collaborative than such games usually do.

You can now put a power card on another hero! There are some silly combo's out there (adrenaline on an assassin for example).

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Memnaelar posted:

So I'm looking at Gordian Quest and Trials of Fire as two card-based games to add to my ever-expanding collection of early access could-be-good card builders. Anyone have any strong thoughts about either to help me choose between them?

Trials of Fire is in my top 10 of most played games already, I'm a big fan. The core gameplay loop is really solid.

I haven't played Gordian Quest yet, I'd be interested in feedback about it as well.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

perc2 posted:

Not that I don't mind deckbuilding discussion, but does anyone know if there's a thread for it? I really, really like the genre and would be happy to do a reviewpost of everything I've played so far if either the thread exists, or if it doesn't, I'll make one. They don't even need to be permadeath run ones, I just really like games with deckbuilding & cards...

There's no thread for it, but I think it'd make sense as well.


Dallan Invictus posted:

I bounced off Trials the first time a couple of months ago and refunded it, but its combat mechanics are interesting and energy makes for a neat twist on the hexgrid card battler style, it's mostly the weathered/muted/worn overworld and UI aesthetic that left a bad taste in my mouth.

Ha, I have this problem with Crono Ark. I can't get over the anime presentation.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012
So apparently Trials of Fire is 50% off. Which is pretty crazy since they're so close to the 1.0 release. Several people in this thread (myself included) like it a lot, but apparently some others didn't like the art style, so YMMV.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Jedit posted:

Don't do this - restart instead. I rolled my progress over and the Lich now has 1700HP and is hitting for over 200 before Palaces. It's completely impossible to beat, whereas I could beat it regularly in the demo with a weaker village.

Uhm, are you sure this difference isn't because the bosses also scale with the enemy level? Don't wait too long with summoning the boss...

Necromancer feels really strong, I beat the second diificulty boss with pretty much full health left and an unused revive.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Imagined posted:

Yeah any tactics-like game where you have a persistent squad you level up and carry through the whole game with you breaks my brain because I cannot handle losing anybody I've used for a dozen battles. If a game wants me to be able to keep moving on and accept casualties then they need to make my squad faceless, nameless robots or something. I'm currently stuck on one battle in Berwick Saga because I keep reloading a dozen times and then rage-quitting because I can't get through the battle without losing somebody.

I think Urtuk: The Desolation has the best solution for this. If somebody dies the first time they're only injured for X days and need a (somewhat limited) resource. If they die again during this period then they're dead for good. So somebody dying is quite inconvenient because you'll have to bench them, but you can cope with it. Too many people dying is still a problem though, so you can't cheese it too much.

It's also a really good game otherwise.

Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Mar 11, 2021

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

FuzzySlippers posted:

I've been thinking of picking up that game for a while. It looks nifty.

I currently have about 20 hours in Urtuk and so far I can certainly recommend it. The game design is just very solid. Nothing extremely unique or special, just simple mechanics that organically result in good gameplay. The user interface is also pretty good.

Main drawback is that the strategic layer is pretty barebones. Battle Brothers is a lot better in this respect for example.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

I'm making a roguelike.

What do you guys hate about the genre, and what do you like? Please assume Turn-Based only.

Like: being able to theory craft builds. In particular, I really like choices between short and long term strategy. I.e. multiple choices between "this makes you a little bit stronger right now" and "this is useless/bad now but can be extremely strong later if X and Y" are often quite meaningful.

Boring: theory crafted build that is strong early, mid and late. Games where if something isn't strong enough level 10 it'll never be strong enough level 30.
Fun: theory crafted build that is barely strong enough early, has a very strong midgame, but might struggle again late game (or might not, you'll have to try to know for sure).

Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Mar 22, 2021

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Broken Cog posted:

Related to the 'interesting maps' brought up earlier, I am getting a new PC soon, and was looking to get back into developing, and I was wondering: What are the games with the most interesting procedural map generation?
I'm not talking just visually, but functionally interesting as well.
I've made procedural generators in the past, but this time I want to go a step beyond boxy dungeons or cellular automata cave system

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/how-unexplored-generates-great-roguelike-dungeons

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012
Trials of Fire just left early access. It's really good. It's currently 10% off and the price will increase to 19.99$ on April 16th.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Osmosisch posted:

Your armour provides a buffer of added combat health. One that's gone your real health starts to get affected. I agree there should be better ui for this.

Indeed. In battle you can mouseover a character to see his base health (red nr) and armor (yellow nr) if I remember correctly. Damage always lowers armor first.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Popete posted:

I played a good amount of Slay the Spire, I'm not great at these games but I have a handle on them. I beat my very first run of Trials of Fire pretty easily, like at no point was I ever close to losing. Does the progression scale in anyway? Or do I just need to bump the difficulty up to hard?

Yeah, you certainly need to bump the difficulty up to hard. Since you've played STS you're clearly experienced with card and tactical games so it's not that surprising you found it easy. Luckily you can quite easily up the difficulty straight away (unlike say Monster Train).

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:

Is there a cheat or anything to get all the unlocks? I don't care much about the meta progression and I want more interesting classes.

Within the game: Options -> Gameplay -> Unlock Features. No need for a cheat at all.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Chaotic Flame posted:

What's the goon consensus on Trials of Fire? It looks like it combines almost every game thing I'm into these days

I like it a lot. If you're familiar with this kind of games I'd recommend to start on hard right away.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Oldstench posted:

I really don't understand how any of you are getting anywhere with Rift Wizard. I can't even get past realm 4 and usually die by 3.

Easy mode to get to realm 10 is spider queen + steel upgrade.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Jedit posted:

That's funny, because reading about it here has convinced me that it's a masterclass in bad design and not to touch it with a ten foot pole. Hundreds of different spells! (Just upgrade the one you start with.) Millions of potential combos! (But you'll use the same one every time.) 25 levels of increasing difficulty! (That you'll either steamroller or be hard countered by.)

Am I missing something here?

Yes. It's really good.

Sidenote: if I hadn't know which game you were talking about, I'd have assumed Tales of Maj Eyal. (Which I really like as well.)

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

deep dish peat moss posted:

I felt this way at first, but the more I've played the more I've been seeing the value of all of the 'chaff spells' I'd normally ignore - if a spell seems useless, you're just not connecting the dots with the ways it can synergize with other things (which is an easy predicament to be in in Rift Wizard, and also what I love about it). Now that I got my first win they're much more appealing to me because the meat of the game is finding ways to beat it with new builds rather than playing with the same build every time. Like yeah Lightning Bolt is extremely strong and you can beat the game with it, which is sort of like playing the game on an easier difficulty. I almost won as a bear summoner earlier, and again as a poisoner who would posion entire maps then cause all the poison to explode. Lately I am building entirely around the Shrines I find which is hella fun.


If your goal is just to beat the game and be done with it, you'll probably be finished with Rift Wizard within 5-20 hours and not enjoy it all that much - but if you enjoy the process of theorizing, creating, and deploying character builds with a million different viable options, it's an addictive mess.

At the end of the day you don't have to take the 'staples' unless you want to.

What the heck, I honestly thought bears were completely useless and that too many enemies resisted poison for a poison build to be viable.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

SKULL.GIF posted:

I do think the criticism that many of the spells to be overpriced to be spot on though. Blue Lion and Flock of Eagles definitely don't feel like they should be Level 5 spells, and Plague of Filth does very little for a level 3 spell.

Blue Lion is really strong though? Summon a few and your summon army is way more durable. Plague of Filth is a decent setup for death gaze/invoke savagery. Never tried flock of eagles...

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Count Uvula posted:

I beat him with a summoner by uhh casting ghost ball repeatedly and dark gazing him for like 250 damage a turn :v:
It was not really a light investment though, like 30 SP and a shrine that increased Dark Gaze's damage.

Funny, just won a game 5 min ago with this exact build. It's a lot of fun. Final map took me 43 turns, 25 casts of death gaze for 4600 damage in total (i.e. 180 dmg/cast).

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:

Honestly Rift Wizard having a cool spell building system sounded neat, but setting it up so you have one combo you always use sounds really dull. A system like that should be leveraged so you can do a bunch of different stupid wizard tricks and really enjoy the design space, not press the same key sequence until you win or die

Not sure what you mean? Are you saying that you have to decide your combo floor 1 and have no room for adapatation later? Or that there aren't enough viable builds? Or that the spells you use floor 1-10 will always be among the main spells you use floor 20-25? Because all of these statements are things I disagree with (I don't think they're true)...

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012
Imagine the game didn't have 2nd level scoutjng before and the dev added it in an update. People would be extremely mad (and rightly so) that the dev took this lazy option instead of just balancing better.

Removing it is a great change, especially because he combined it with other good changes.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

bees x1000 posted:

Hot take: i don't think ammunition adds much to JH and there are enough other numbers to play with that it could be removed outright.

Of course grenades and rockets should be limited.

That's indeed a hot take.

Got my first win yesterday going assassin. Not sure if any build will be as fun as teleporting around insta-gibbing enemies 24/7. Had no problem with dante inferno or the boss, while before I never managed to get past the first floors of IO.

Smith Comma John posted:

Ditto with armor durability

Why yes, I did just have both of my durability+ fully upgraded armor pieces crap out on me right at the end of Dante, after hitting up every repair station I could find

You can use multitools to repair armor any time.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012
Urtuk: The Desolation just got a "free DLC" update (an extra faction) and is 20% off. It's a pretty cool game, certainly for fans of battle brothers etc.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

deep dish peat moss posted:

Into the Breach is what made me realize I don't like deterministic combat for exactly this reason. If there's an irrefutable best possible solution that I can logic out, then it's a logic puzzle and not a strategic challenge, and it stops being fun to me. Strategy games and roguelikes are fun for me personally when you constantly have to be re-assessing the situation and changing your strategy on the fly based on how previous encounters went, and when you have to think creatively to solve new and constantly shifting nebulous obstacles. If you can just 'solve' the combat and resolve it in an optimal manner then you never have to change your strategy from moment to moment, you just run the logic engine and let it rip.

Getting crit by a dragon after whiffing four attacks in a row is fun sometimes

Rift Wizard on the other hand is a game that I think does deterministic combat right even though I soured on the game itself - there are eleven billion variables and you are constantly stapling more of them to yourself, so even though the combat is deterministic the puzzle becomes "how do I solve this encounter against this combination of enemy types with this specific set of powers, consumables and upgrades that I probably haven't ever had before?" and it dips back into the realm of creative problem solving instead of lego-set logic. With problems that complex, relying on random factors would be too much and determinism helps make it manageable.

Eh, I think it's less about "does the combat have RNG or not" and more to do with ITB showing you what the enemies will do beforehand.

Urtuk's combat doesn't have any RNG whatsoever, but nobody would ever call it a puzzle game since you don't know what enemies will do.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Safari Disco Lion posted:

Is there anything good out recently that's slower/turn based that's not Rift Wizard? That game is just way too limiting and frustrating for me right now, after seeing how broken lightning builds are compared to literally everything else.

Heh, there's plenty of builds that feel extremely overpowered once you get them running. Lightning builds are fine, but saying they're the only broken thing is really weird.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012
The best roguelike that's comfortably played with only a mouse (or laptop touchpad) is Urtuk. You don't need a keyboard at all.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Dropbear posted:

This has been sitting in my wishlist for a while now. Any impressions on it besides that? The trailers etc. make it look a lot like Battle Brothers, which I liked a bunch (although it got hard as hell on ironman and felt like luck played a big part).

Oh it's really great. I have 130 hours in it so far, which is less than battle brothers got me (197 hours) but still in my top 10.

Things urtuk does better than battle brothers:
- Combat is extremely well designed and has pretty much no RNG. At first glance it's pretty simple, but the interaction between the stamina system, the focus system, the crit system, and the traits give you plenty to think about.
- Unit and enemy variety is pretty good, especially since all factions are playable. To be honest, it goes a bit "oh wow, so many races" to "hmm, it's just the same unit types but with different traits" to "wow, they do play really different and these traits make a huge difference".
- The trait system really gives you tons of options in how to build your fighters.
- The injury system is perfect to get people to play ironman.
- The user interface is incredible. I play it on a laptop with just a touchpad.

Things battle brothers does better than Urtuk:
- The world map stuff is very minimal in Urtuk, there's no economy to speak off and it's just not that great.
- The loot in urtuk is pretty meh.
- In Urtuk you often end up using the same units every fight, occasionally rotating one or two. The (lack of) recruiting system is not that great in Urtuk.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

juggalo baby coffin posted:

Urtuk: The Desolation - i think this one might already be kind of a hit in the thread but I wanted to write about it in case people don't know.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1181830/Urtuk_The_Desolation/

Oh yeah, Urtuk is awesome.

One thing Urtuk does very well that wasn't mentioned yet: you can play it with only a mouse (or in my case: a laptop touchpad) very easily. Urtuk really nails the UI in this respect.

It's also great because combat has pretty much no RNG whatsoever, but it still feels unpredictable.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012
You need to identify two things:
- what is your long term combo that will scale to lategame? This is usually something you chose early and is usually linked to abusing some passive skill. There are way more viable builds than most people realize.
- what are your weaknesses/problems right now? Often you can't beeline for the end game combo and will need some early game spells to get far enough. Usually this depends on the circles you encounter. Example: if I encounter a sorcery circle early I'll often get annihilate (and choas barrage) regardless of long term plans , but I will have no plans to upgrade them.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Yes, I've played it for 8.6 hours, in which I had 7 runs: 5 failed and 2 succesfull.

The good:
- Combat is quite enjoyable and I really enjoyed these 8 hours so far.
- For an early access game the extra's are quite okay: there are keyboard shortcuts, a run history, a "collection" listing all the cards and relics, etc.
- Different enemies do feel different to play against.

The bad:
- Honestly I don't think I will play it again until they've added way more content. I have the feeling I've seen everything the game has to offer so far.
- There are only 2 difficulty levels (I only played the harder difficulty). In my first win the difficulty was consistent, but in my second win the third stage felt like a complete victory lap.
- The game simply needs a lot more content. More relics and more cards in particular.

Overall I certainly don't regret buying it, the time I spent with it was really fun and I'll probably revisit it once they've added more content and difficulty levels.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

grate deceiver posted:

I've been playing the roguelite strategy The Last Spell for the last few days and It's pretty good. I tried it initially when it released in EA and wasn't really impressed, but now they've turned it around into a solid game. There's a millions unlocks which I'm always game for, most of them are just opening up different options, but there's some that are also just straight upgrades. There's a ton of different weapons and gear that have entirely diferent skills and bonuses. It's also pretty hard, but I feel like with each run I come a little bit closer to vicory.

Pretty cool, woud recommend. Also one thing I realised way too late is that you can have a second weapon set that you can switch during combat completely free, so your melee guy can have a ranged backup weapon and vice versa.

Yeah, I also ended up getting it during the sales and honestly I'm completely in love. It's such a neat concept and gameplay loop. Managed to win in each of the 3 maps in a total of 5 attempts, now tackling acopalypse 1 in Lakeburg.

Before buying i was afraid of the grindyness, but that hasn't been a problem at all: I've never had the impression that I needed to grind for some unlock in order to continue. My only fear now is that the game could be getting easier (due to unlocks) faster than I can make it more difficult (due to unlocking acopalypse levels) - but I still have plenty of "oh, poo poo, I'm going to lose" moments and the game is by no means too easy.

Figuring out weapon combinations is indeed extremely important. Some weapons are good in almost all situations and really encourage you to take the specialised perk (like the pistol), some are the complete opposite and need a partner weapon (like the spear and the sword).

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Jack Trades posted:

I played the demo for
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1888430/10_Minutes_Till_Dawn/
and one thing I really enjoyed about it and games like Vampire Survivors is the ability to make varied and absolutely ridiculously strong builds.

Are there any other roguelites that allow you to do the same thing that aren't card games (played practically all of them to death already) or Binding of Isaac (cause gently caress that game)?
The part where I get rewarded for figuring out good synergies tickles my brain good like.

You've probably played Hades already.

Perhaps Risk of Rain (2) as well?

edit: I just remembered a review of Neophyte that made it sound very familiar to Vampire Survivors/10 Minutes till dawn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK28a2Jfec8
It might fit the bill as well.

Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 19:50 on May 14, 2022

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

grate deceiver posted:

Got any tips? I'm on run 10 on the first map (Gildenberg), I can survive up until the last night but then I get quickly overrun, since on the night before I usually lose a good chunk of my buildings and defences. My dudes are never in danger, but I just can't seem to keep up with my damage output.

I also probably realized too late that consumables refill every night, so might be a good idea to outfit everyone with mana potions and some aoe scrolls.

First of all, I think the first map is just as difficult as the second map, especially since you (if I remember correctly) don't have access to the Inn yet. So if you can consistently get to the final night in gildenberg then that's pretty good already.

Tips:
- Don't be afraid to use mana intensive spells and scrolls. If you took defence damage but still had mana at the end of the night then it's likely you didn't play optimally. Don't be afraid to spam triple strike, flamethrower, lightning strike. Mana is meant to be spent. An attack like triple strike doesn't need to hit 7 enemies to be worth it, if you kill 3 it can already be useful.
- Because of the above, getting extra max mana is pretty valuable.
- The mage perks are almost always good choices for all type of heroes. Plenty of other good perks, but they're more situational.
- At the start I underestimated the importance of mobilty. It's really useful to have a character that can switch sides easily.
- Bowyer/Blacksmith/Magic shop are not very good. It's better to just upgrade your shop to get better items.
- Always check the shop, especially look for items that give +1 AP. In general it's really important to stack advantages. If a weapon has momentum/multi-target/propagation then it's really important that you stack these bonuses. A hand crossbow without +target is useless, a hand crossbow with +4 target is completely insane.
- Upgrading the stock gives a free re-roll.
- It's better to combine multiple bonus damage sources (i.e. +physical dmg, +momentum, +crit chance) than to focus everything on one aspect;
- It's better to focus on one kind of defense than to combine multiple sources. It's surprisingly easy to make a hero completely invincible (95% dodge chance, or +50 block, or 400 health and vampire, or resistance+armor). Obviously not important for long range characters. Dodge is usually easiest because it only requires items.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012
Uhm, I presume you are refilling everybody's mana every time using workers?

I usually aim for 50~60 mana. How much max mana do you have?

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

grate deceiver posted:

Yeah, something in that range, at least on my main magic dude. But I've been wasting workers on getting more gold for the item buildings, so later on I can't keep everyone topped up

I just double checked my current run. Day 11 in Lakeburg: (obviously not as high in earlier nights, but shows how much I prioritise it)
Sword/spear -> 33 mana
Pistol specialist -> 74 mana
Druidic Staff/Mage Orb -> 80 mana
Axe/Dagger -> 45 mana
Druidic Staff/Tome -> 77 mana
Longbow/Shortbow -> 80 mana

edit: w.r.t. defenses:

(The stone walls you see are part of the map, I only built 1 tile by accident.)

But I honestly don't feel too comfortable giving too much advice here. I prefer spamming ballista's even before I have walls up everywhere, and I only do the cheapest walls possible until quite late, but I'm not sure this is optimal.

Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 16:54 on May 15, 2022

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Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

grate deceiver posted:

Finished Gildenburg in The Last Spell on run 12. It was tough but I tried to utilize both weapon sets this time + offhands to give myself the most options possible, gave my dudes some scrolls and mana potions, plopped down the simplest barricades to delay the waves and stopped wasting gold on the weapon building and just focused on he shop.

I'm also seeing in the new dev notes that they're reworking production buildings to share upgrade levels and the shop to increase automatically which was probably my only gripe with the mechanics. Game good.

Congrats! Lakeburg is quite similar, the only added challenges are figuring out the new enemy types (took me some time to realize you can click on them and read their attack description) and deciding when to get the Inn & Seer. (and upgrade the Inn)

The patch notes sound really cool, but I find the price reduction of the weapon buildings to 60 extremely funny. "Well, we already buffed these buildings by doubling default production, making them share upgrades, improving worker efficiency, and allowing rerolls; but we're not sure that's enough so now they also cost 10 less gold."

Naramyth posted:

It looked very tower defense which was a turn off but having a party and stuff sounds fun. I generally don’t buy until games are out of early access though

Eh, it's less a tower defense game and more a roguelike take on Final Fantasy Tactics.

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