Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
Bob Zubrin thinks it might work? Investors might want to do a 360 and walk away.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

Any Kraut-speakers ITT know the pronunciation of Sylt? My dumb English-speaking mind says it should sound like "Silt" but I assume that's wrong.

Blagh I wouldn't know how to explain the Y. The pronunciation key says 'as in shoot (scottish)' but ehhh?

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
The goldmine is readily accessible without archives though.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

Hogge Wild posted:

Agreed. It's my favourite thread on internet.



http://i.imgur.com/DQf4cEr.webm







































aaaa

:woop:

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

Nebakenezzer posted:

Really? drat, I have to read that book.



etc...

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
I even felt fremdschämen while reading it on my iPad, in a German airport, all by myself. Don't mention the war and all that.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
The blood, sweat, and tears shed in EVE online are going to be a big driver in the 211X MilHist thread.

You know, the three picoseconds it's going to take the machine minds to process it, or through perpetual retellings within the go'onlord clan - who have come to rule the wind-swept wastes of the endless raddesert.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

Help me out here, what's the point you're trying to get across?

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
There's multiple separate design bureaus and factories involved in building that 'series', and that's not even taking the tanks that didn't make it to full production into consideration.

Would you consider the US post-1962 sequential fighter aircraft classification a lineage of some sort?

e: ^^^^ model...

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
In the same vein US aircraft designations can be pretty non-linear as well: a late 1970s light bomber program gets a pre-1962 fighter prefix and design number because it's a black project, following the lineage of secretly acquired Soviet fighter planes part of a whole different black program operating out of the same region :v:

Fangz posted:

I mean the numbering scheme. It seems highly random.

IIRC postwar it becomes M-year minus 19, and with the Abrams they do a rebranding :dunno:

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
Yeah that's what I meant by different factories and bureaus but you fuckers actually know your stuff :sweatdrop:

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

JcDent posted:

Soviet T- numbers are based somewhat around the year of introduction.

Don't know about tanks, but US plabe numbering had a reset during the Cold War, that's why most of the planes are still of "teen" series today, but don't ask me where F-22 and F-35 numbers come from.

Incidentally, American plane letter comes from function. F for fighters, B for bombers, etc. Same goes for NATO reporting names for Soviet stuff, like Hind and Hip being Helos, Fishbed and Fagot being Fighters...

That would be the 1962 tri-service commission, the year I mentioned upthread. -22 is part of the fighter sequential system (though they skipped over -19 for marketing reasons tyvm Northrop) but the X-35 retained its experimental number after coming out of the JSF fly off.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

Saint Celestine posted:

Hello friends. Can anyone recommend a good book about the history of the Cold War?

Which part? I'm not really up to speed with the hottest historiography but AFAIK it's a very fractured field.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
Speed, even taking into account tactical applications, says very little about operational or strategic mobility. Which includes stuff like mileage, ground pressure, and reliability to begin with, and extends into larger questions of simplicity in training and serviceability.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
Again, I think a big reason why armor on ships went kinda right out of the window is that crossroads was done in 1946, and the effect of shot Baker can pretty much be summarized as "welp."

NBC survivability is still an important driver in weapons design (or it should be, at least).

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

spectralent posted:

I've been told this is just the misconceptions of establishment fools who resisted evidence. In general, I've been told there was never any superiority in soviet armour throughout the cold war, and western gear was, for the duration, always strictly better*.

*to the point that at one point the quoted specifications were rebutted because "That's the design but the soviets built them shoddy". They then gave the performance of various ex-soviet vehicles in the gulf as evidence...

Oh someone was chanelling Warbadger?

In any case, not every (part of a) Cold War army was equipped with the best and the latest stuff. The UK 4th ID for example, their backstop force across the Weser in the 70s and 80s, was a strictly truck and recce vehicles affair for a long time. Very little 'superiority' against a second echelon Soviet Tank Division I'd say, even if the latter were only equipped with T-55s and old BTRs.

Throatwarbler posted:

The Soviet emphasis on things like range (aux fuel tanks, diesel instead of gas turbine engines), river fording and "being light enough to cross bridges without crushing them" meant that yeah in general the Red Army was more likely to have a tank around when they need it.

It might depend on what exact period of the Cold War we're talking about, but forces were incredibly mech- and armor heavy pretty much for the duration. Chances are you'll have the tank around, but the other guy could have two to five times more.

Also 1) in West Germany at least there weren't supposed to be any problems with crossing bridges even for the heavier NATO tanks in the 1980s, I'd gather 95% of them were good for the highest weight class (the yellow roadsigns are still there). Though seeing how much problems they have with those same bridges nowadays...; 2) River fording or whatever tactical mobility trick you've got up your sleeve is a function of ground pressure rather than weight, and I think both sides' tanks were about the same at that; and 3) only the Abrams and the T-80 ever used a gas turbine engine across the central front. Both those tanks only entered service in numbers during the 1980s, and even then they were still eclipsed by vastly more common diesel- (and some petrol I guess) engined ones, so I really don't know where you're getting that particular nugget of truth from.

e: sp

Koesj fucked around with this message at 23:01 on May 29, 2016

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
Do note that we're talking about old-school chemical agents here, with pretty different employment profiles than what we've come to expect in the postwar era. Nerve gas was a strictly German affair during WWII.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

cheerfullydrab posted:

Does anyone have an opinion on Red Storm Rising?

Significantly worse than Ralph Peters' Red Army.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
I think there's an ex-NVA (the east German one) officer who wrote a WWIII novel with NATO as the aggressor.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

lenoon posted:

But the novel has everything to do with violence? This is how propaganda works, right? It's how antagonists work in badly written war porn; ivan xheng mohammad is the stand in for his side, whether nation or religion or ideology. He acts as a proxy for INSERT ENEMY HERE, and the single perspective from INSERT ENEMY HERE is both lazy writing and a justification for OUR BRAVE BOYS (tm) to fight an otherised foe. It's not a Clancy thing or even a fiction thing. The story of the noble honourable enemy is everywhere in soldiers stories, but don't appear in the public sphere.

Im not criticising Clancy for being a hack who writes poo poo, I'm saying this is a common literary technique to produce a clear enemy and uncomplicated narrative. It's not even just literary - why do you think one of the main solutions to islamophobia is getting to know a Muslim person? It's how the brain works - you generalise from the specific instance. Give one specific example of X and all other instances of X take on its characteristics.

The book's not about a war with muslims, so the general gist of your points notwithstanding (nor Clancy's one-dimensional hackery), I don't really see the specific issue here.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

Tree Bucket posted:

Hi thread! I'm putting together a (very) light strategic board game for a friend, based on the wars of medieval Europe. For balance purposes I need to divide the bit covered by today's Germany into two seperate regions/zones/provinces. Any thoughts on the least worst way to do this? Also I have learnt that maps of the HRE are literally incomprehensible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wei%DFwurst%E4quator

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

HEY GAL posted:

Draw the line further north, separate those fucks who speak Platte from the normal people?

Oh me and my family you mean? :qq:

jk I don't speak that poo poo and we're not German anyway, but north-south might still be the most logical divide though.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

BeigeJacket posted:

Are any of these Cold War Gone Hot trash novels any good at all? I just want to grog out with tank porn.

I've already read Team Yankee, which I liked well enough, even if the Soviets present basically no threat at all to the NATO forces.

Red Army, Chieftains, maybe Hackett's WWIII (though he's very much in the Enochian mould).

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

Deptfordx posted:

There's a more recently written Cold War gone hot trilogy by Harvey Black.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Harvey-Black/e/B001KCG3DK

Which, while not without flaw, were an interesting enough read.

Oh hey I forgot about those.

IIRC the dude's ex-BRIXMIS (British Military Mission in the Soviet Occupation Zone, basically legal spies) and he obviously knows his technical stuff. Not much in the way of great prose though.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
I scoff at y'all for reading unavowed trashy SF. Pulpy time travel/ISOT/alien stuff though, yowza! :v:

I'm not even ashamed to admit to trawling the alternatehistory.com forums for decentish shlock, since prose and politics notwithstanding, some people there have at least got a sense of irony.

Like that one abortive story with the 18th century EIC types trying to cash in on a portal to our world. Or the actually rather good, longrunning thread with 80s Britain being sent back to the 18th c (I sense a pattern here). Which has Maggie Milksnatcher instituting rationing and a massive nationalization program, and it includes the dawn massive social movement coalescing around a crusade to abolish slavery. Tasty.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

Elyv posted:

I've read 15+ honorverse books ama

No thanks!

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
E. Germany, or: how a notionally 'socialist' regime descends into the most extreme form of petit-bourgeois navel gazing.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

HEY GAL posted:

the mustache is part of my appeal

Goes really well together with upper body strength and a stabby weapon, in a bad 80s action flick kind of way.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

Frosted Flake posted:

What got me thinking about this were the "elite" units: 1st SS-Panzer Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler, Panzer Grenadier Division Großdeutschland and Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1. Hermann Göring. All three have great war records and are still celebrated. I respect their accomplishments,

This does not read well btw.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

Koramei posted:

People have said in this thread numerous times that Nazi Germany didn't go into a full war footing until incredibly late, because they were worried about discontent at home.

It's probably beside the point but IIRC the last couple of times we went over this the 'late industrial mobilization' thing was refuted. There was very little resource slack in the German economy, and they were facing hard choices in the early years already regarding aircraft production numbers, ammo prioritization, etc. Speer's miracle is pretty much a myth macroeconomically, and on the plant- and supply chain level they never got it quite right for certain pieces of equipment anyway. This was very much a political/socio-cultural problem indeed, but had very little to do with any unwillingness to go the whole mile AFAIK.

e:

Comstar posted:

This post just blew my mind. Is there any books that go into detail on this?

Also, there need be a SCP about Russian Swamp Monsters eating entire Mechanized Tank Corps in mid-1941. "What do you mean we lost 1000 tanks to a swamp?!?!.

Forczyk's Schwerpunkt delves into the details in a very matter of fact manner, and I thought it was a nice and quick read.

Also that forum poster seems to operate on some strange economic assumptions.

Koesj fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Jul 6, 2016

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
After three solid recs inside a couple of hours I'd like to point out that Schwerpunkt is $2.42 on Kindle atm.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
C3 is command, control, and communication; CSS are combat support services.

NTC is probably the National Training Center in the US? It's where they've been doing operational maneuver training for a couple of decades now. Haven't gotten far enought into that thread to see the abbreviation pop up though.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
Unless you vaporize the target the debris cloud is still going to be around for some time though. Quite some time if we're talking about non-LEO.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
Basically, gently caress steampunk.

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003

HEY GAL posted:

Edit: You've heard me speak in English, you know how I default to a flat, choppy, ugly, "neutral" vowel a lot of the time? We do that a lot. Especially in my regional accent, though, which is not English-English.

Ummm you speak American???

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
Goddamn.

Didn't these waves of trials (I think there were distinct ones at least?) end up with a big 'ol purge of the security services to cap it off and tie up loose ends?

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
I used to go off on cold war tangents, but there's more knowledge people here nowadays :)

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Koesj
Aug 3, 2003
We'd first need to get a friendly mod/admin in here again who can goldmine this thread for easy, archiveless linking.

  • Locked thread