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So after having a conversation with a friend during which I realized I know way too much about Dragon Ball for someone who has never watched it, I've decided to do that now. First five episodes were pretty okay. Probably gonna be awhile before I hit Z.
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Apr 16, 2015 18:41
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I figure if it becomes a slog I can always quit. Considering how influential it is though, I felt compelled to check it out on its own terms; Dragon Ball according to Dragon Ball rather than the fans.
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Apr 16, 2015 18:52
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Cozz posted:Which is why the manga is probably the more time efficient way to go. Compare 153 DB, 291 DBZ episodes (444 episodes total) to 42 Manga Volumes (519 total chapters). Granted you might be able to cut some filler out of DB and DBZ to cut down on the total episodes, but that's still a lot of episodes to watch.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:32
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Just a slow IV drip of kung fu anime to get me through the hard times.
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Apr 16, 2015 19:38
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The characters also possess distinct profiles and clear body language. Even with the details obscured and the dialogue cut out, I (who have only just started this series and not hit this scene yet) never lost track of who was doing what.
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Apr 17, 2015 05:01
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Join me on my quest, Zen Master. I'm only on episode 5. Speaking of which, SatansBestBuddy posted:This is a different Kame House. Or possibly the same only transported by capsule.
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Apr 17, 2015 06:36
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NowonSA posted:For anyone else, coming up with Capsule tech means they've finally thought of an idea to start their fledgling manga career. For Toriyama it's a Tuesday and a neat little wrinkle he throws in to his manga. Another good example would be the pterodactyl who's sort of the first bad guy of the series. Comes out of nowhere, kidnaps Bulma, says a few words, then takes to the skies. At no point is the existence or credibility of a presumably extinct predator capable of human speech ever questioned by Goku or Bulma, so consequently I don't question it either. Another author might feel the need to address to the viewer the existence of such things, but Dragon Ball just lets the concept speak for itself. Talking dinosaurs exist and neither of our protagonists are in any way surprised or startled by this beyond the fact that it wants to eat them. Takeshi Koike is someone else who does this a lot and I love him for it, like how Little Deyzuna in Redline gets super strength when he cries just because that's how it works; no elaboration.
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Apr 17, 2015 07:43
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Side note: Man Bulma's a loving weirdo. Rereading DB has reminded me she is just as bad as every one of Goku's friends. Better shoot it.
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Apr 18, 2015 03:39
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Xibanya posted:Toriyama's fuckin' awesome. Obviously I don't have the same eye for these things as you - even with your assistance, reading the "Flow" still kind of escapes me - but comparing panel composition and clarity of forms has proven pretty interesting.
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Apr 19, 2015 00:12
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You were plenty clear, it's more just a the way I read comics (which itself is a remnant of how I learned to read as a kid). Rather than allowing my eyes to trace individual objects within a panel, I tend to view the panel itself as one giant block of information to take in all at once. The flipside of this though is that it's given me an easier read on composition.
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Apr 19, 2015 00:45
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Xibanya posted:Well, nobody consciously follows the lines I drew, "flow" is sort of a thing that you only notice when it's missing - like you look at a page of a comic book and it's almost like your brain is rejecting it, going "the gently caress is goin' on here?!" A page where you feel like you have to really pay attention just to figure out what's actually going on. Probably didn't help I was comparing Toriyama's crisp and simple style with some comparably more elaborate artists. Looking forward to the rest of your effort posts.
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Apr 19, 2015 03:10
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Xibanya posted:As a continuation/side item to my effort post series, I decided to try something a little different. Can you guys tell more or less what's going on in the following images? Obviously a fight of some kind, but I couldn't even begin to give a play-by-play.
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Apr 19, 2015 23:25
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Xibanya posted:Well, what you're seeing is the result of a design choice Toriyama made, for better or for worse. The sitting figure saying "wow" is 18! It looks like they were intentionally made to have a similar silhouette to show how robotic/non-unique they were. I personally think it was a poor choice since they do end up having distinct personalities AND it can muddle up a fight scene like this. As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, though I am only now just watching Dragon Ball for the first time, I know quite a bit about the series just through conversations with friends and general cultural osmosis. Concerning the android arc, I knew about Cell - that he existed at least - and Androids 16, 17, and 18 because it was a little hard not to. What I didn't know up until incredibly recently (around the same time I decided to get into Dragon Ball) was that there were actually two more androids apparently nobody talked about. "Yeah, Toriyama introduced two others who were intended to be the main threat of the arc, but his editor thought they looked dumb so he traded them up for some others." Curious, I decided to spoil myself a bit and go digging for an image.  First off, whoever Toriyama's editor was, that guy was an idiot cause these dudes look dope (though perhaps unmarketable). Secondly though, in light of everything Xibanya's been posting, I can actually see a lot of his points about Toriyama's proclivity towards distinct shapes and silhouettes (and even flow). Even if you scrubbed out both androids' details, there'd could never be any confusion which one was which. Also, some nice composition in this pic in particular. Much more visually engaging than either 17 or 18 from the images I've seen. Also also, that Darkseid panel's utter lack of flow finally helped me grasp what you meant before. It really is one of those things you don't notice until it's not there.
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Apr 20, 2015 01:35
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This feels like a microcosm of every 80s/90s sports movie.
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Apr 21, 2015 07:01
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One-Punch Man is great because it's the sort of earnest parody where you know the author has a lot of love for the subject matter. Madoka feels more like an attempt to destroy something other people enjoy.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:54
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Darth Walrus posted:Really? I think people overhype Madoka's grimdark. It has a positive message and an optimistic ending, despite all the suffering. There's some real love for the genre hidden in there. I mean, just look at the flattering Utena and Kannazuki no Miko references. Again, just how I saw it. Not saying it is that way, but as an outsider looking in it sure seemed like it, ultimately optimistic ending or no.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:16
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Thyrork posted:Madoka is a very strange kind of optimism. The show ends on a ultimately positive note for the world, the movie(?) further so yet our actual characters suffer for both. But I already admitted this is informed by my perceptions rather than real grounding in the genre so feel free to take all my posts on the subject with the world's largest grain of salt.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:38
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dipwood posted:It's a testament to why you shouldn't transcribe Japanese dialogue literally, because aside from cultural quirks, it's actually completely terrible much of the time.
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Apr 21, 2015 23:06
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mycot posted:I thought that was a general Japanese language thing. It's a language where a lot of meaning is only through context.
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Apr 21, 2015 23:27
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Xibanya posted:Hi guys. I threw my effort posts here: https://manuelamalasanya.wordpress.com/ Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 02:46
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Vegeta may know how dodge but he sure can't duck.
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Apr 22, 2015 05:24
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Dragon Ball status update: 8/153               This show is pretty great.
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Apr 22, 2015 21:54
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Terper posted:Who would win, Goku or All Might? Supes can come too.
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Apr 22, 2015 22:59
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Bleach quit being worth it the second they set foot in the Soul Society, it just didn't become obvious until later.
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Apr 24, 2015 06:33
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The Soul Society has its moments, but it's also where a lot of Bleach's long-term problems first rear their heads. I know a lot of people have a soft spot for it since it's where Bleach got serious and wasn't yet stupid, but so many of its current issues can be traced back to that arc that I really can't give it a pass.
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Apr 24, 2015 06:56
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Spiritus Nox posted:Not to push the derail too long, but which problems are you talking about? I can certainly see how you can trace the casting bloat to there and that's easily Bleach's biggest problem, but I wouldn't say that it was fully formed yet - I don't remember Kubo trying to give all twenty six or whatever Captains and Lieutenants serious amounts of screen time the way he really started doing getting into the Arrancar bits and beyond, plus the sheer number of characters and minibosses and organizations Kubo introduced once the Arrancar and Vizards started floating about make the 13 squads look compact and concise. More substantively it's where Aizen shows up, Kubo chokes when it comes to killing anyone not evil, and the series begins its downward spiral into a world where only Ichigo really matters. Aizen I've never liked. Just about the only interesting thing about him is the twist that he's evil. He was a fairly generic nice guy prior to the reveal and the most generic villain once the jig was finally up. He also "Kills" Momo, except she gets better, then defeats Hitsugaya, but doesn't kill him, only to proceed to wreck a bunch of people thereafter and not kill them either because...uh...because. Instead he flies off to create/recruit a bunch of underlings he doesn't need to fight and fail to kill the people he could've killed himself, making them stronger. But that's getting into later arcs. Ichigo himself is probably the biggest problem with SS (and subsequently much of the rest of Bleach) since he's paradoxically the only party member to get anything done while having none of his accomplishments really mean that much within the context of the plot. The vast majority of the arc's intrigue happens without him, and he only even meets Aizen after the dude's shown his true colors. His only real role was to serve as a distraction allowing Aizen to move more freely (which makes less sense the longer Bleach goes on and the more and more powerful Aizen is implied to have always been). Ichigo doesn't even really succeed at saving Rukia either since she's released as a matter of course once it's revealed it was all a plot which Ichigo played very little part in unraveling. Alternatively, he's the only character who really gets any fights that matter* alongside insane power ups permitting him to simply BE better than his opponents rather than actually besting them. Got a good chuckle out of the Turn Back the Pendulum arc when it was revealed Byakuya's been practicing his swordplay for centuries but with Urahara's help Ichigo eclipses him in an afternoon. Other people fight and get schooled or fight and win but to no ultimate purpose.** Or almost fight, but then don't. The fights themselves are largely terrible, but that's a larger issue that encompasses most shounen so it's not really fair to pick on Kubo alone. Fast-forward to the Fake Town arc, you have Aizen effortlessly stomping several top shinigami and most of the vizards. "We need Ichigo!" Shinji cries. Of course we do, because nobody else matters, though they may start mattering after that point since that's where I dropped it. * ᴵˢʰᶦᵈᵃ'ˢ ᶠᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵈᵒᵉˢᶰ'ᵗ ᵐᵃᵗᵗᵉʳ⋅ ** ᴴᶦ ᴵˢʰᶦᵈᵃ⋅
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Apr 24, 2015 08:32
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Not really, but then most people I've talked to who like Aizen do so for reasons that have nothing to do with his quality as a character or even an antagonist.
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Apr 24, 2015 08:52
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Bacontotem posted:The Quincys are ghost nazis that were last put down a thousand years ago. They were created by the son of the Soul King, and for "reasons" said son created the Quincy to be a fodder force for him so he could become powerful enough to destroy the soul king. Part-shinigami, part-hollow, part-quincy; everything.
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Apr 24, 2015 09:11
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Gammatron 64 posted:If One Piece and Naruto are Ryu and Ken, then Bleach is Dan Hibiki.
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Apr 24, 2015 21:07
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I actually thought Bleach was good back when it was just high school Japanese neighborhood ghostbusters. Grand Fisher was a more interesting and intimidating villain than Aizen ever was. I got super mad when he showed up after the SS arc just to get chumped.
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Apr 24, 2015 21:18
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Jojo is okay. I like Jojo.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:32
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Dragon Ball status update: 13/153 Alright, we've gathered the dragon balls, made our wish, and managed to thwart evil. Good going everybody. So what's the rest of the show about? *** More seriously, that was a pretty charming and surprisingly humble beginning to things. I remember reading somewhere that a lot of the initial arcs in Shounen Jump titles tend to be brief in case the series gets canned so I'd imagine the next couple arcs will be similarly fast-paced until we hit the part where Dragon Ball demonstrated it could reliably earn its keep. Funny how little time it wastes early on given its eventual reputation. Also kinda funny seeing Emperor Pilaf and his comically ineffectual goons knowing that in a couple hundred episodes we're gonna be staring down the barrel of the most dangerous alien in the known universe, the somewhat less humorous Lord Freiza. Speaking of which, kinda throws a wrench in a lot of the series' power level discussion when there's a dude who can literally just turn anyone who touches him into a carrot. Imagine how useful that guy would've been if Goku had remembered he left him on the moon and brought him back to Earth to take on pretty much any threat.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:54
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jivjov posted:This was going to be the original run of the manga. This is the extent of Toriyama's planned plot. Thus follows many many years of making poo poo up as he goes because his editors dont' want him to stop. Spiritus Nox posted:Honestly? Not terribly. We've got Ki attacks flying around by the first martial arts tournament, then the Red Ribbon's bevvy of guns, and then King Piccolo and on just blow poo poo up no touching really necessary. Heavy Sigh posted:Yeah, but Buu tried pretty much the same thing and it didn't do poo poo except make him look like an even bigger chump.
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Apr 25, 2015 05:15
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Genocyber posted:Hungry Hungry Goku then. EDIT: Of all the things to get beaten to post.
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Apr 25, 2015 17:52
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Thyrork posted:Ah, but who would win in a eating contest between the two of them? Big Boss hadn't become evil yet so it fits.
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Apr 25, 2015 18:54
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Big Boss was never evil, he just upset the status quo.
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Apr 25, 2015 18:57
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ImpAtom posted:What if Goku was revealed to have been implanted with the trickster spirit Wu Kong as a child and he learns to tap into that power after he accidentally finds and eats the Gum Gum Fruit after it falls in a cross-dimensional hole created when Goku discovers his Bankai after getting in touch with his half-demon nature. This allows him to truly manipulate his Nen which he uses to create his Stand, the Cha La Head.
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Apr 28, 2015 22:00
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Blaze Dragon posted:I think part of why Goku comes across as heroic despite his serious enjoyment of battle and somewhat stupid/unkind/selfish moments is because Dragon Ball as a whole is very optimistic. Gon from Hunter x Hunter is literally "what if Kid Goku was in a far more cynical world", and he has moments where he comes across as outright creepy despite being more or less the same character. Hell, even his Super Saiyan transformation is shown in a far, far less nice light than Goku's insanely heroic, if revenge-driven, first transformation. And this is counting how Super Saiyan Goku was far less nice than normal Goku. I have more respect for a writer who is willing to kill a character only to find some way of bringing them back than a writer who goes out of his way to avoid killing characters even when it makes sense to do so.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:05
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ImpAtom posted:Gon is an intentional commentary on Goku (or rather Goku-style characters). That's kind of the point of the character. HxH intentionally takes shonen tropes and takes them to a logical conclusion they wouldn't get otherwise.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:29
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Shakugan posted:The fantastic thing about HxH is that we don't actually know this is true. HxH does power creep fantastically. The protagonists consistently get stronger, but never falls into the DBZ trap of "beat the strongest guy in the universe, stronger strongest guy in the universe then has to show up, rinse and repeat". There are a whole bunch of super powerful characters who the protagonists interact with, but we don't actually know how they all compare to one another. It's also helped by a power system that has a bunch of unique powers that make direct "power comparisons" kind of pointless. For people who want to get into Hunter x Hunter but hate the idea of the manga being on eternal hiatus, the anime is actually a pretty solid recommendation since it wraps up in what feels like a natural place even if there's tons of story left.
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May 1, 2015 03:36
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