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jivjov posted:Of course there's someone stronger. Didn't the Battle of Gods movie mention other types of actual gods in the setting? That, or one of Beerus' cohorts is much more actively malicious in his 'duties'.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:14
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It seems like the last decade in general has shown a gradual uptick of Toriyama's interest in Dragonball again. One could guess at all the myriad reasons why, but I do suspect the sheer amount of time he's had to grow distant from previous dissatisfaction with some of the experience (ala Leonard Nimoy) means he's come back around to being genuinely interested again.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:55
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Part of me mildly hopes that the room of a series, and Toriyama's prior involvement with projects like Dragonball Online and Xenoverse, will incline them to use a wider range of characters in a relevant fashion. In that same line of thought, I'm actually curious if they'll simply stick to the established cast, or if they'll try to introduce new characters for the hero side that will inevitably be hated by the fandom.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:10
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Xibanya posted:A fairly interesting post Something this made me think about is how with Dragonball, unlike a number of more modern series (and I mean just out of the general media I've experienced, so obviously I have a biased view of this), appears to be more... inconsequential, when regarding people's backstories. Like, yes, they factor into how people behave and act, but rarely until the Saiyans and onwards do the personal stories of characters prove a major cornerstone of the plot. Which in its own way makes more sense - yeah, it might be more 'dramatic' if everybody the hero encounters is deeply tied to the oncoming story, but more often than not people just kinda lead more mundane lives that have little to do with world changing events. And I think it allowed Toriyama to be more freely honest with people's motivations and thoughts, rather than having to keep his cards to his chest because there aren't any massive revelations that he might otherwise spoil. If Krillin were made today, his thoughts would be kept hidden and we'd only have him vaguely allude to his past which then gets blown open when forced to confront it due to blah blah blah.
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May 6, 2015 00:47
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And even the source material makes it weird since, on the one hand, being 'God' has nothing to do with the Dragonballs, and actual cosmic forces exist separately of him, yet the position apparently means something since he tried so hard at it in the first place, and others do defer to him. Admittedly, the (vague) logic worked well enough prior to the saiyan stuff, since you could have reasoned that whilst Kami could theoretically do those things, he didn't so as not to actively screw up nature or make people reliant on him. But, so that there was a vague hope, and the ability to give them at least something should things go horribly awry, he created the dragonballs so that people could call upon the miracles themselves. The concept of being able to call upon the power of the gods separately of the gods themselves (or whatever other cosmic force you want) is something that does come up a few times in Japanese media (at least of what I can tell from my limited experience of it), so it makes sense to see that idea crop up in the series. It just gets trickier when its made into a pseudo-biological capacity, and one where you can potentially substitute the guy with someone who has visibly been shown to have otherwise nothing going for them beyond some small degrees of flight and healing magic.
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May 6, 2015 19:39
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To add to the talk on focusing on characters and position and such - Toriyama's choice of background usage is also pretty effective to help this along. To just use the pages Xibanya uploaded as an example - only three of the panels on those pages have a particularly detailed background. And one of those I'd count as just barely since Kame House only just edges into frame. Heck, one of those pages practically has no background at all in black and white, aside of a few lines to indicate the edges of grass and clouds. A lot of superhero comics do not like to do this. But I think that, aside of saving time for a man who apparently tried to cram in his work at the end of the week, it allows him to more regularly focus on character interactions. Might be also why he likes wastelands so much - way easier to let that sort of thing slip out of sight if its not that interesting to begin with.
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May 8, 2015 12:08
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LORD OF BUTT posted:I love how the Pilaf gang loving everything up is a running theme in all the post-DBZ stuff, Toriyama or no. It helps that they're just so easy to toss into things. Comedic relief that wanna take over the world can be used to justify almost anything going wrong.
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Jun 3, 2015 00:05
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So, watching Kai for the first time, as a means of rewatching the series at a third of the episode count. Aside of liking how comfortable the voice actors are with their roles, something I realise I love about the series is just how casually it can do things sometimes. Like seriously, most other series would respond to 'one of the main characters has turned into a giant monkey' with some convoluted scheme that shows off the heroes' wits and skill in the face of a highly destructive force, or maybe play the emotional plea. Piccolo says 'gently caress it' and just blows up the moon. On a whim.
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Jun 12, 2015 23:34
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Not sure if its just the director's cut or such, but they did briefly comment on how he was waking up too early, and then advise King Kai not to tell Goku (which wound up tipping Goku off). Also, gotta say, kinda thrilling to actually be reading a new dragonball series as its being released. Because of pop culture osmosis (and being too young) I never really got a chance to experience the series 'new', except for the 'dragonball' half since that never aired here and I discovered it years later.
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Jun 21, 2015 09:33
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projecthalaxy posted:Apparently nobody remembers Dolltacki because he doesn't even have a DBWiki page. What's his deal. Well, his name is spelled different, for one. Basically though he was one of the villains during the series 'early Dragonball but in SPACE' phase of things, and kind of a creep who had an interest in Pan. I find myself in an odd place regarding GT - it was the first piece of dragonball media I actually watched on a regular basis as a kid, and I found myself enjoying it for the most part, though some stuff was just bleh even then. So I have a fond nostalgia for some bits even as I realise how much better the rest of the franchise tends to be. Still think they missed an opportunity to do more with Uub.
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Jun 25, 2015 18:00
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An interesting aspect there is how Toriyama relatively recently (within the last few years, I think) confirmed that yeah, Bibidi never actually 'created' Buu, but had actually found them. Buu otherwise just... exists, like some lovecraftian gumball.
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Jun 26, 2015 14:59
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Yeah, this is almost certainly revising the BoG events, perhaps because Toriyama's figured it could have been done better, or something. So rather than Beerus sleeping specifically to wait for Goku to arrive, the SSG is something that slipped to the back of his mind as he otherwise went around and did his job.
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Jun 26, 2015 19:12
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Blockhouse posted:Oh sure, but having to sit and wait for however many episodes of set-up/re-use of BoG's plot have to pass before we get something cool is not sitting well with me. That's gonna be the most problematic thing, discounting the possibility of new material also sucking. I realise even in Japan not everyone will have seen the film, but it almost certainly got watched by the bulk of people who'll go on to watch Super week by week, so a near retread is gonna be tedious. That might be why they're introducing Champ early in, if the second trailer is any indication, so there's the assurance of some new element playing in. Kinda curious what they're berating Beerus about though. Overstepping his boundaries as a god of destruction (ie, if the planet he just blew up was one he wasn't meant to touch), or some other matter?
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Jun 26, 2015 22:01
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Parrotine posted:What is the deal with fat beerus, someone clue me in Actual answer: Probably another god of destruction, since even Battle of Gods (IIRC anyway) established Beerus wasn't merely the only one of his kind. And whilst its looking to be that BoG itself won't be a part of Super, the same general notion is implied. Honestly, my curiosity is more on the Whis counterpart. Does it mean like, every god of destruction is just given their own personal attendant/trainer as part of the job?
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Jun 30, 2015 08:12
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...Thinking on it, maybe Champ is the god of destruction from universe 6? In which case, that would seem like a possible precedent that we'd be getting equivalent characters, but not necessarily just straight up the same folks. For a western comparison, it'd be like the Crime Syndicate from DC Comics, where characters are evidently parallels of each other (Superman/Ultraman, Batman/Owlman, etc), but they are not 1:1 opposites (so Ultraman is not Clark Kent, mild mannered reporter).
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Jul 1, 2015 10:04
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StrifeHira posted:That might be neat. Like, there are still Saiyans around but there's no Goku or Vegeta or anyone like that, but there might be some Saiyan Prince or Princess or King or Queen or whatever (President of Saiyans?) who's a sort-of parallel to Veggies. Or maybe Namekians are the big heroes of that universe. Or Frost Demons. ...The franchise has shown a fondness over the last few years of allowing gamers the ability to play as members of Frieza's race in a heroic fashion, so the notion probably does exist in Toriyama's head in some fashion. Whether or not he'd actually go with that of course, is another matter entirely. Hell, even just a living race of saiyans would probably explain why they'd be fighting characters from the other universe. The saiyans were dicks, imagine if they had actually lasted long enough to have an empire.
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Jul 1, 2015 18:00
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I actually could never get that much into Cell, probably due to how I learned of and experienced the series largely out of order. So to me he ends up seeming like a wannabe Frieza mixed with a prototypical Buu, and ultimately not working quite as well as either of those two. Mind you, his english voice actor is pretty drat  , so he was well cast
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Jul 1, 2015 19:49
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To clarify on the universe chart last page - that's just for the one universe I believe, with the various layers of reality. Its based off various other sketches of a similar design, generally found in the Daizenshuu books. So you have the afterlife and such above the mortal world, but then the realm of the 'gods' (the Supreme Kais) orbits around all of it. Though yes, if the other universe is goofy as hell, definitely need at least someone from the TFS cast involved. Though apparently they managed to get some bit parts in the new movie too, so they're definitely in contact with Funi.
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Jul 2, 2015 12:12
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I find it interesting to contrast how the manga and the show have differed in displaying the opening scenes. Makes it seem like maybe there's a common 'script' of footnotes on stuff that happens, but the exact details haven't been agreed upon, and the respective staffs are working separately. Specifically: - Goku's shadow boxing is shown purely externally in the show, focusing more on setting up the eventual joke of how terrible he and his son are as farmers, than showing Goku imagining the prior villains. - Beerus destroying the alien planet changes a fair few things. The aliens are various degrees of pig humanoid rather than Toriyama-esque bugs, Beerus only destroys half the planet rather than the whole thing (somehow managing a clean split as he does so), and it seems to be because he genuinely disliked the food, rather than because the aliens tried to poison him, proving themselves to be vile. Plus, no mention of the super saiyan god dream. - The scene with Satan dropping off the money is also reworked. Placed at the end of the story rather than immediately after Goku and Goten's mishaps, Satan arrives in an earthbound car than a flying one, and his assistant seems to have a specific design rather than a faceless goon. Apparently, V-Jump, which is the magazine publishing the manga, is actually a monthly release? So aside of being why chapter 2 isn't out yet, that does raise an interesting question of how pacing is gonna work out between the two.
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Jul 5, 2015 13:55
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JosephWongKS posted:Judging by the amount of punishment that snake took from Goten and Trunks, that snake was stronger than Frieza, possibly stronger than Cell. Clearly, decades of inhabitance by extremely hungry aliens has resulted in natural selection leaving only the strongest of creatures alive.
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Jul 5, 2015 14:24
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The Bee posted:Maybe Toriyama's going to transition the Online history into Dragon Ball canon proper and have Gohan do his punchmans research. I really do wish this could happen. I mean hell, unless they're really gonna stretch out BoG and RF to be thirty-ish episodes each you'd imagine they'd need some other material to go along with the Universe 6 stuff.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:31
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...Huh, interesting. Whilst in most regards this would seem like filler, it seems like they're gonna alleviate by tossing in bits of foreshadowing here and there. Bringing back up the idea of multiple races in the universe having transformations is actually kinda interesting. At one level, it helps expand on the idea of why the SSG matters so much to Beerus - it seems as if no other transformation of all the species he's likely faced has really fazed him. At another, it makes me wonder if Super will introduce new races with their own transformations, or perhaps add transformations to existing ones - ie, a way for the humans and the Namekian to not be completely left in the dust this time around. Y'know, whilst they're willing to toy with the concept.
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Jul 12, 2015 11:37
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The early dragonball movies were kind of interesting how much they would flatout change the plot of the series, sometimes placing existing characters into entirely different roles, compared to the standard tactic of 'vaguely around wherever the series is currently up to + 'original' characters''. Managed to watch Mystical Adventure on TV as a kid, and whilst I found it fun to watch, I was confused as all hell on how it related to the series proper.
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Jul 14, 2015 16:33
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EndOfTheWorld posted:So forgive me if this was ever explained, but if the Dragonballs can only do what Kami can do, then why doesn't Kami bring people back to life without getting the magic balls involved. I understand Kami leaving Goku dead long enough to train with King Kai, but why not, say, everyone else who dies? Would he get in trouble with King Yemma? Its kind of a vague detail that, ultimately, kinda has to be quietly put to the side and/or handwaved as the series increasingly went on and had to make clear that the whole 'God' thing was more of a title, then made even weirder when it turned out there was a whole species of him. Or to put it another way, the idea that they can only do whatever 'God' (Kami) himself is capable of wasn't an issue at the stage of the series where the dude's MO was basically keep the world from being absolutely hosed, but otherwise the mortals were free to do whatever. Hell, that's part of the ultimate explanation behind why the dragonballs exist - he wasn't willing to dote on the world lest it become lazy and have people not solve their issues when they certainly could, but still gave them something they could use if things really got out of hand. So in that view of things, Dragonballs = Kami for miracles generally works and makes sense. Its when you get into Z and the balls becoming a regularly used resource that this becomes a real oddity. Ie, bringing the people killed by Frieza on Namek back to life was apparently okay, but its never really addressed whether or not that included the thousands of people that once inhabited East City.
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Jul 14, 2015 22:25
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Fuego Fish posted:tabletop stuff Hm... so from what I gather, Earthlings are kinda meant to be like a support class. Pretty neat. Regarding the issue of transformations though, one possibility would be to introduce the good old Kaioken as a secret technique to learn. So if someone dies (probably the Earthling since that's mechanically beneficial) they can pick it up from a Kai, and then unlike Goku, show everyone else. Could maybe add a requirement that you have to roleplay to get it though - you know, help get some character interaction going. Also if this works out, do you mind if I shamelessly use it? Got various groups of friends this could be fun to try with.
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Jul 15, 2015 23:58
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Fun chapter, though more of a direct retread on BoG than last time. I'm kinda curious about one thing though: Specifically, whether this is just a one off gag, a reference I'm not getting (since there have been a few side series), or maybe even foreshadowing? 
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Jul 16, 2015 14:33
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So... looks like the manga panel from before might be a mistranslation based on the whole 'I destroyed the dinosaurs' gag by Beerus. I enjoy the foreshadowing filler at the moment, but will admit the humour doesn't quite have the right pace on it to work as well as intended. King Kai's voice actor is really dissonant to what the character is supposed to be doing as well. Do like that they're trying to change up the actual events of BoG too, even if its just in small ways like the party taking place on the cruise ship. Slightly curious about the possible animation change next episode though - does anyone know who might be involved where the lines got really thick in that preview?
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Jul 19, 2015 15:51
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Superman has very, very bad writing, you see, so he wins. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:"Superman heard a noise on Earth from a neighboring star, we will take this to mean he is stronger than God and not that DC hires hacks without restraint." Unfortunately, that actually often is the case - and Death Battle generally tries to silence the 'you didn't consider X!' arguments by, indeed, taking the most ridiculous examples they can find. And to be honest? They were just scratching the surface of just how dumb some writers of Superman have gotten (and yes, the likes of Geoff Johns do heavily lean into the 'he is the strongest in the universe' notion even though that makes no sense). But hey, at least I have Birthright and Secret Origin. I'm honestly kinda curious on Dragonball's future in parallel to that. I mean yes, you get 'retellings' like the SD series, but it seems clear that's not meant to replace the original as the current 'true' version of the character. Yet at the same time, the series ultimately makes money (hence we're getting Super), and Toriyama isn't going to be around forever. Would they just limit themselves to another anime remaster/reanimation, or actually try to 'fix' the manga proper?
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Jul 19, 2015 20:53
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It pretty much is the combination of the current slow pace and vaguely knowing what should be coming. Probably the closest comparison I can think of is how a lot of people treat the Great Saiyaman stuff (though I personally love it) when what they often want is to get right to the Buu plot kicking in.
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Jul 19, 2015 21:58
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I managed to get Krillin as my first character - honestly dunno if that's good or not, but he's being useful so far.
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Jul 20, 2015 12:10
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Kithkar posted:So what's the timeline going on here in these episodes. In the first episode Gohan and Videl were yet to be married? We're clearly caught up to BoG at this point, but have we gone from 6 months after Buu to 4 years later sometime between episodes? Well, one could argue there's a small timeskip between each of the first few episodes, and that its in the space somewhere between 2 and 3 that the wedding took place, offscreen - ie, the same time that it would have taken for Bulma to rearrange her birthday plans to incorporate the cruise ship, and King Kai to fix his house. Sure, the way the second episode ends does make it seem like Goku just trained non-stop thereafter, but Chi-Chi did also bring up the point of Goku being okay to train so long as he remembered to come home every once in a while. So, in theory, there's room... Except Elder Kai says Beerus has been awake for half a day. When we've had two separate evening/night scenes. I think either there's screwy subs, or the writers didn't double check the script.
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Jul 20, 2015 13:53
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Anyone who wants a Krillin for their game - 2744268402
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Jul 21, 2015 18:25
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StrifeHira posted:Instead of starting THAT again, let's talk about something better. Aye, more of this. Hell, having seen these, I'm now stuck imagining Chi-Chi wanting her son to grow up respectable like that wonderful Clark Kent fellow.
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Jul 21, 2015 22:05
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Babe Magnet posted:can you make generic bullshit human soldier man at the bottom into The Strongest There Is because that is going to decide for me whether or not I will play this game Because he's a normal card, he caps out at level 20. A shame, because I had planned to see how far I could take him.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:03
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Rand Brittain posted:Yamcha's problem isn't being not being cool so much as having nothing cool to do but still showing up. He isn't just irrelevant; he's irrelevant but isn't allowed to fade into the background and play superhuman baseball. ("Guy who couldn't fight gods but was still beyond human limits so he became a pro athlete" would be an actual character role so it's a shame he couldn't stay in it.) Its an unfortunate remnant for his role as the very first rival in the series, and subsequently, one of Goku's earliest friends who could actually throw a punch. It made it easier to excuse him showing up after the shift to the martial arts and world saving focus, and likely also made him easier for Toriyama to even remember (unlike say, Launch). But then, as you say, he doesn't actually get to do anything. For the Saiyans, he's used as the first casualty (against the Saibamen, whereas the others at least chumped to Nappa), and then against the Androids almost dies, and later shows up to be cannon fodder against the Cell Jrs. Krillin had his moments on Namek and helped move the plot along in the Cell saga even if he couldn't even hope to win in a fight; Tien at the very least gets his advanced geometry as something to justify his presence, building up to that moment. Yamcha just... doesn't, as far as I can remember. The worst part is that I feel like it wouldn't have been very hard, at least in the Android saga. Maybe actually let him use his sword again, since Trunks was swinging one around... 
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Aug 7, 2015 13:37
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jivjov posted:Honestly, if I didn't have the film to compare it to, I don't think Super would look that bad at all. Its obviously made with a fraction of the budget, and a fraction of the time per episode. The problem is that its Toei, and Toei can be kinda terrible for production schedules outside of their movies. Though I do agree that on the latter half of the fight, ie, where super saiyan three came in, that was fun enough to watch. I guess we're just gonna have to get used to any sweet spots being preceded by a fair bit of uh, 'quality'.
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Aug 10, 2015 01:05
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The other thing to remember is that more than any budget issue, Toei seems honestly quite terrible at managing a production schedule that isn't for its movies and/or OVAs, though honestly such is a wider issue in the industry at large (as previous pages can enlighten on). Toei outputs a lot though, and often on a regular, weekly basis, with many shows stretching close to a hundred episodes or more (with the most obvious case closer to one thousand), and several are franchises that immediately move into a sequel the next week after finishing. And Super... honestly seems like it was announced on short notice, in hindsight.
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Aug 12, 2015 15:20
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ImpAtom posted:I know what you're saying but it's sort of hilarious phrased that way. "Well, he guesstimated the power he'd need and made himself as strong as a legendary super-being who almost effortlessly dominated the strongest person in the galaxy." Honestly Gero should have patted himself on the back for managing to get anywhere near that accurate.
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Aug 13, 2015 16:19
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I must confess, I actually rather liked this episode, especially in approaching Vegeta's initial reaction to Beerus. But hey, at least people will be allowed to job out over the course of twenty minutes next time, rather than what they got in the film.
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Aug 16, 2015 18:21
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So... Champa is after the dragonballs, of course, but I'm almost certain he's gotta be from another universe (6, probably), based on how he addresses the Kais. Kinda curious what a god of destruction might want though.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:16
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