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Discospawn posted:Poison weapons no longer allow re-rolls when the natural Strength is the same as the opponent's Toughness. Strength has to be at least 1 higher to get the re-roll now. Another nerf to Tyranids because there were all those poison weapon-based Assault lists out there? Eh, it barely matters for most 'Nids, as MCs all have high enough Strength that they still get it (except against other MCs.) Ith posted:This is a nice buff to Nightscythes. Night Scythes do not have the Hover type. Rulebook Heavily posted:e: It's not just me who finds the "if you and your opponent agree" mealy-mouthed phrasing hugely annoying, right? Tell me it's not just me. It's not just you. "If you and your opponent agree, you can use polyhedral dice to determine random outcomes for events during the game. We suggest using Citadel(TM) d6s, but the sky is the limit as your forge your narrative!" Swagger Dagger posted:Since I saw that walkers are getting better, are Sentinels any good? I really like how they look. Sentinels are pretty solid. Good firepower, cheap, and either tough (Armored) or sneaky (Scout.) ghetto wormhole posted:What exactly got better about walkers aside from the vehicle damage table? Vehicles can score/contest now is the big one. Also only AP2/1 weapons can explode you, Hammer of Wrath for free, and Smash Attack is now just one attack, making MCs worse at destroying them in general.
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May 24, 2014 07:37
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SRM posted:Was wound allocation changed in any way, aside from spillover from challenges? I haven't seen much about it is all so I wasn't sure. Technically wound allocation did change for shooting attacks (due to the new "one gun at a time" thing) but a lot of the time it won't matter. And yeah, explosions and several other things are random now. gently caress random allocation forever. haakman posted:What the gently caress - that basically removes one of the combat drugs rolls for DE. DE being S3 and all. The DE combat drug result is "reroll to wound" not poison. In that respect, at least, they are fine- in every other respect, of course, they are hosed good and hardcore. CyberLord XP posted:Is this real? Sadly it is very real. DE and Orks are even worse off than they were. Crazy Ferret posted:I do have a question about the new rules. I read on the 3++ blog that a weapon cannot allocate wounds outside of LOS. Does that mean if I have a mortar or some kind of artillery weapon that scatters behind a wall on models the weapon crew cannot see, the damage is negated? Does this affect the Hellhound's torrent attack? Mortars are other barrage weapons that do not require LOS will ignore that rule. The hellhound, however, will not. Lungboy posted:Can someone do a rundown of the Maelstrom tactical objectives? 18 of the 36 of them are triplicate "capture this particular objective" missions, worth 1pt. (You can't roll the same Tactical Objective more than once during a game, but there are three different-but-identical versions of each one.) Six of them are slightly more specialized "capture these points/be near this table edge" ones that are typically worth more VP. The remaining twelve involve killing either any unit, a particular unit type (a psyker, a building/emplacement, a warlord, an MC, a vehicle), killing a unit during a particular phase, or killing a particular number of units. Almost all of them have a bonus for killing more than the minimum number. The various Maelstrom of War missions give you varying numbers of Tactical Objective cards, ranging from one to six. Some of them stay the same through the course of the game, some increase the number of cards you get, some decrease it. It's actually fairly neat. In (almost) all cases you can choose to pitch one of your cards at the end of your turn for a new one, and if you have fewer than the "correct number" at the beginning of your turn (due to completing or discarding them), you draw up to that number. ijyt posted:Woah, woah, everything in battleforged armies scores? And unbound armies can't score? Do dataslates/codices still overrule the BRB, because my planned unbound "the ground is made of lava so you better have some wings" tyranid army with skyblight formation might have just become null and void. Unbound armies score normally, just like Bound armies do- they just can't benefit from the Objective Secured rule (except for Skyblight, because its Gargoyles have that rule.) Unbound armies are explicitly allowed to take dataslate formations if they wish to and benefit from the rules for them.
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May 24, 2014 17:40
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Hollismason posted:Hahahahhahaha , loving Transcendant C'tan in normal play is broken. The C'tan is a monster. Basically the only ways to kill him are Grav weapons, Witchblades, and rolling a 6 on the Destroyer chart. Snollygoster posted:-Some of the warlord traits, particularly the Personal warlord traits, got straight up better. You outright get furious charge or feel no pain or it will not die/fearless, without conditions like in the 6th edition personal traits table. I would argue that they got a lot worse- Furious Charge and Counterattack do not "echo" to the rest of the squad and the old versions of them gave the rule to the Warlord's whole unit. The new Personal table is atrocious because it only ever benefits the Warlord (bad the Fearless one), so your trait is affecting a single model in your army with a mediocre benefit. HiveCommander posted:I know that Lords of War are in, I thought that only a HQ model with the 'Character' rule could be a Warlord though. Is that really gone? Can I really no longer deny Slay the Warlord by fielding Tervigons as my HQ choices? Under the new rules, any model in your army can be its warlord- however, if you do not pick a character, they do not receive a warlord trait. jng2058 posted:From a tournament standpoint you're screwing yourself with the All Daemons All the Time list. It took those guys six hours to play a full game, and most tournament slots don't go past four. If the game ends on turn 2 and you have 3000pts of models, chance are you're sitting on most of the objectives. Hollismason posted:I'm not going to bring this up anywhere but here, but you can shut down a summoning army pretty fast with those Servo Skull things. Servo-Skulls only affect Scout and Infiltrate by enemy units, not Deep Strike.
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May 26, 2014 07:13
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Genghis Cohen posted:I hate being this guy, but gently caress it, a man can't change what he is: Look, you don't know for sure he's wrong; maybe his brother posts inflammatory messages and compares people to Hitler on Ebay. It's not outside the realm of possibility.
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May 26, 2014 12:13
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Thundercloud posted:See what I should be doing is finishing my space marines. What I'm thinking of doing is digging out the two black reaches + extra 30 orks plus warbikes plus grots plus 3 killa kans I've got and starting to put together a proper ork army. I've got about 90 boyz, but 60 have choppas and 30 have shootas, and as assault hasn't been fixed I'm a bit leery of two units of 30 boyz with pistols. I am going to tell you a secret that you can never tell any other man: most people can't be hosed to tell what the gear is on any model that you put down more than ten of, especially xenos. If you put down twenty Boyz and told the other guy that they were all equipped with Argleblats, Griffjows, and a twin-linked Parblenarfer on the squad leader, most people would just nod and say "Okay, are any of those blast weapons?" What I'm saying is you can use your Choppa Boyz just fine and only the spergiest of sperges will even be able to tell there is anything wrong, much less call you out on it.
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May 26, 2014 13:53
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Cataphract posted:And, my point is, the sky isn't falling. Ork trukks have always been paper thin and can be wrecked pretty simply by bolter fire. You're always going to suffer a high volume of casualty running trukks and the ability for someone to do a couple of wounds to the occupants of an open topped vehicle is pretty negligible odds were that the vehicle was going to get wrecked anyway. Sure, but keep in mind that you're running Trukks to protect your Orks from being shot while they cross the field. It's not like Flamers or torrent weapons are gonna be popping up everywhere constantly, but it's a completely-unneeded nerf to two armies that were already suffering badly and a strategy that has been on the down-trend for four editions running. The argument "well but you should have more Orks" is also meaningless because that basically just presumes you have an infinite number of points/models I guess? It's not like you weren't bringing as many Orks as you could already, and even Green Tide lists can be tabled without all that much difficulty. Suffering extra casualties on the way in due to the new rule is just one more strike against them. Moreover, there are more than a few relevant template weapons floating around these days- the Heldrake, yes, but also the Dreadknight, the Burning Brand, the Night Spinner, and even just Flamers/Heavy Flamers. IG in particular likes to field the latter, but seeing them elsewhere is not unusual at all, because this ain't 5E no more- dealing with large numbers of infantry models is a thing you have to be able to do, and templates are a pretty good way to accomplish that in many cases. Post 9-11 User posted:Wow, the Mega-kannon is even more disappointing than the punisher cannon was. Without knowing the price it's hard to get a good feel for the Morkanaut overall, but it strikes me as pretty weird to be saying that the Punisher Cannon is bad these days. Height of 5th edition, sure, but with Pask in a Punisher being a little bit of A Thing these days, why would you call it bad? Even without Pask it's spitting out a fuckton of dice for a pretty cheap price. It's also really good on the Vulture and the "baby version" on the Taurox Prime is arguably the best of the main weapons for it (even if the vehicle itself is underwhelming.) The Burst Cannon went from lovely to actually pretty good with the most recent book (even if it's not a first-choice weapon because S5 is pretty abundant in the tau army), the Avenger cannon is quite strong, etc. In summary, don't be hatin' on rotary cannons, they are mostly quite good. TheChirurgeon posted:So after beerhammer on Saturday Shadow Daishi stuck around and helped with the board. He's actually been crucial at getting this thing together--was there to assemble the initial boards in my folks' garage in 30-degree weather, so massive props to him. This thing is amazing-looking. Tequila Ranger posted:The digital version of the Necron Codex removed Sweep Attack from the CCB entry a long time ago, I'm sorry to say; I think we're (still) stuck waiting for a faq for things like this. Given the new edition and all, I have to assume that the old FAQs are essentially invalidated and most units are reverting to prior rules, so Sweep Attack is still a thing. I mean, obviously that's not official and your group can play it however they want, but playing the CCB by its printed rules seems pretty reasonable and there's no obvious reason that Sweep Attack would be taken away from it, as the only reason it was removed last edition is because BRB rules superseded it. ThNextGreenLantern posted:Please help, I have no idea what I'm doing. Trying to put together a 1000 point list of Blood Angels, here is what I have so far: Getting out and playing is good advice- experience is perhaps the best way to learn the game. However, I would definitely say that you should try out missions other than Purge the Alien- scoring objectives really isn't that complicated and 5/6 of the normal missions rely on being able to score stuff. If you're looking to expand your list, you definitely want to find an HQ- I would suggest possibly a Reclusiarch, to hang out with your Death Company. Rerolling misses AND failed woulds is amazing,a nd you will be shocked at how much damage that unit can output. I like throwing a Power Sword or Fist into my Death Company so they are a little more flexible, but that's not really needed at 1000pts. If you go much larger, getting some other transport for the Death Company (Stormraven, Land Raider, Drop Pod) will probably work out better for you, since you want to be assaulting early. Blood Angels are hopefully seeing a new codex in the relatively-near future, so the best advice is probably just to buy the one or two things you need for a legal list and hold off on the rest, as a lot of stuff is likely to change. (Oh, if you haven't already, try out Blood Talons on the DC Dreads; they're hilarious. S6, rerolling wounds, and more free attacks for everything you kill- the only downside is being bad at killing other Dreadnoughts.) Ghost Hand posted:In actual play I have found troops to be even more precious now. Being able to own an objective when others are on it is golden. I'm generally with you on this one- although I did like only troops being able to score, because it introduced a lot of interesting balancing decisions to list-writing, in practice it was often obnoxious. Troops being super-scoring is a pretty good compensation and allows for some interesting shenanigans in terms of stealing objectives away from the enemy, so it's not just straight-up worse.
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May 26, 2014 22:22
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ThNextGreenLantern posted:And thank you to Infinite Karma, LingcodKilla, Pacheeco, Jing2058, and AbusePuppy for the advice. I did not think of how fragile a 5-man squad would be, as I was blinded by the Black Rage. Found out my friend just bought a Riptide, so I may end up starting over. (Why is the Riptide a Monstrous Creature while the Dreadnoughts are Vehicles?) The difference between a large MC and a walker can be rather tenuous; in the Riptide's case, it's basically "because the other battlesuits are not walkers, it isn't either." If your buddy is fielding a Riptide, I would definitely say slip a Power Fist into that squad of Death Company. Riptides are scary in shooting and can be pretty fast, but if you get to assault one, that's basically game over for it. Your own Dreadnoughts will also do quite a number on it with their 5+ attacks that hit on 3s and wound on 2s. Monstrous Creatures got a lot weaker in combat with the new edition here, so in a lot of ways you're better off.
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May 27, 2014 03:58
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Sulecrist posted:Do you think the 7th Edition changes generally justify non combi-weapon kit for Marine Sergeants and the like? Generally speaking, no. Combiweapons and Meltabombs are still both useful, the melee options are still overpriced in the grand scheme of things. Space Marines just aren't a melee army; certainly there are armies that have more call for that sort of thing, but I don't think they're one of them.
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May 27, 2014 06:45
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Safety Factor posted:Swarms, specifically, may be able to score now, but a lot of those units have special rules that deny them that ability. Actually I can't think of any Swarms that aren't scoring anymore- and Nurglings and Rippers both can get Objective Secured. Death Company, DC Dreads, and Tau drone-only units are the only things that jump to mind as units that are specifically not scoring. Cataphract posted:So does the new smash attack rule mean you also forgo your bonus attacks for charging of for having additional CC weapons. This is correct- you give up ALL your attacks for a single Smash Attack. The only thing that wouldn't be replaced is special in-addition-to-your-normal attacks, such as Stomp or the like.
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May 27, 2014 07:47
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:I'm reading the Imperial Knight FAQ and it's really quite funny. "Ignore all the rules in the book. Except for that one box on the bottom right." Better yet- Knight Warlords are characters, so they can make challenges. "HEY. HEY PUNY HUMAN. I CHALLENGE YOU TO SINGLE COMBAT. JUST YOU, ME, AND A ROBOT THE SIZE OF A SKYSCRAPER." PierreTheMime posted:They didn't even change Dominion to function properly, goddamn. I'm just going to email them a huge list of current problems and see what comes back. Ugh. Dominion works just fine, except on the first turn of the game? Blessings last until your next psychic phase, remember, so if you cast Dominion last turn, it will still be in effect when you have to make IB tests. That can be awkward, but it can also be useful ('cause you can frontload your spending.) Warlocks and Pink Horrors being able to cast from Daemonology is ridiculously huge. It's... it's just gonna be amazingly dumb.
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May 27, 2014 18:16
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SUPER NEAT TOY posted:It's an AV13 5HP vehicle. What should it be priced at? It's not good but it's 230 points for something your opponent needs to shoot at. Eh. Its offensive capability is pretty mediocre, and unlike a Knight it doesn't have immunity to exploding or the rest of the damage table, nor does it get the other benefits of being a virtual superheavy. It's a LOT of points to ask for a walker with middling protection and no obvious strong points. It only moves 6", yeah? They don't really have any reason to worry about it until turn 3-4 at the earliest, and some armies can just ignore it the whole game. Color me unimpressed. I mean, hell, it loses a fight to most walkers pretty badly- a Maulerfiend crushes it pretty hilariously, DC Dreads paste it, even a couple Helbrutes will drag it down with relative ease. I just don't really see it being good at anything- it's moderately tough, but not THAT tough at the end of the day. PierreTheMime posted:For comparison an Ironclad Dreadnought with similar armor, 3HP, no transport capacity, and far less guns is 155pts base. It's not bad for its points and it's a nice model but damned if I'd buy one at the price its going for. The Ironclad is a pretty awful comparison, though, because Ironclads are in no way good this edition nor last edition and only marginally even the edition before that. MasterSlowPoke posted:That's what we all said about the Wraithknight. I am still of the feeling that the Wraithknight is a decent, but not amazing, unit. It's strength is being immune to a bunch of the usual weapons people bring these days (like Autocannons and such)- when they have to face off against poison, Missile spam, other combat MCs and characters, etc, they actually fold up pretty quickly. It's just that it's fast enough if you don't have the weapons to handle it, it is a problem RIGHT AWAY. That is not at all true for the 'Nauts, which are gonna have to spend a number of turns waddling up the field before they really affect anything. We'll see how it plays out with the new Ork book and all; maybe there will be some unit that you can transport in it that will be a big deal. Burna Boyz are okay, but unlike a Battlewagon you're not actually getting them there particularly quickly.
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May 27, 2014 19:15
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Sephyr posted:Is it me or are these completely at odds with the psychic discipline access table listed in the BRB? The availability of most disciplines is unchanged, folks just got access to Daemonology in addition to other stuff. That means that a Lord of Change will have Change, Divination, and Daemonology available to it. Force isn't something you have to "take"- if you have a force weapon you get it, if you don't you don't. Divination and Telekinesis are listed in the CSM column (and Divination in the SM column) because there are ways to get access to them- the Crimson's Laughter relic and Ahriman for CSM, Tigurius for SM. CyberLord XP posted:Is this a thing? Does GoI move transports too? It does not. Gate ONLY moves the psyker and their unit, and your transport (dedicated or not) is not your unit. In fact, you can't even CAST powers while inside a transport, so it's rather a moot consideration.
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May 27, 2014 21:51
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So Ahriman can cast a witchfire three times per turn now, which is actually pretty awesome. He's still expensive and kinda fragile and a bit of a derp, but he at least gets a decent warlord trait and he's one of the highest-level psykers in the game. Thanks to Chaos Psychic Focus, he actually ends up with five powers, which means (given perfect rolls and enough warp charge backing him up) you can spam out a hilarious fifteen witchfires in a single turn with him. pew pew pew!serious gaylord posted:That never stops being funny though. Its what power gamers deserve. And FAAC chumps deserve to get their poo poo kicked in time after time by competent players who actually know the rules of the game. Ratflinger posted:Someone looked at the Catacomb Command Barge and decided "Man, gently caress that thing". Which makes me a bit sad. Ghost arks also took somewhat of a beating, but they are still okay. Can not help feeling the roboman codex got a little less fun though with some units toned down and psychic stuff being flung about. Even if comp rules will keep it very much workable. Necrons are still really great and I have no idea why you think the Command Barge isn't amazing. AV13, hit on Weapon Skill, gets to make Sweep Attacks AND shoot AND assault? Can soak Melta/Lascannon hits on the Overlord with a 4+ cover save? That thing is a beast. BULBASAUR posted:Are we feeling that psychics are the next big thing? Do take all comer lists now require somebody to 'debuff' and counter enemy spells? Psykers are going to be a big deal in the new edition. If you don't have many psykers of your own you're largely consigned to watching the other guy cast spells, but that was basically the way it worked before, too- the only difference now is that a strong psyker army has a chance of slowing such a strategy down. I think you're going to want to go heavy on psykers or not at all; running a single Inquusitor/Primaris/Librarian to cast some buffs on your guys is gonna be a rather dicey proposition these days. SUPER NEAT TOY posted:If your opponent is not spamming summoning, what exactly are psykers doing that you really give a poo poo about? Casting Invisbility or other buffs on stuff. Hitting you with strong witchfires like Psychic Shriek. loving up any psychic powers you try to cast. Summoning is one strategy, but hardly the only one. Rulebook Heavily posted:Right now I'm more interested in hearing how the random objective cards pan out. So far I've heard nothing in between either praise for how fun they are or total slams for how they replace player actions with a deck of cards as the determiner of victory. They are going to be the real test of seventh edition, I think. My impression so far is that the missions for Maelstrom of War are pretty good in that they provide a variety of ways to get cards in differing numbers and seem reasonably well-balanced. The cards themselves are mostly fine, although the ones that rely on destroying a specific type of unit (psyker, building, flyer) are obnoxious and probably shouldn't be in there. The problem with them is essentially the "death spiral" that a lot of games can struggle with. When you score a card, you get rid of it and will replace it with a new card, which opens up more options for scoring additional points. This means that the player who is winning (i.e. completing the most cards) gets MORE cards and more options while the player who is behind is largely stuck with the (presumably uncompleteable) cards they have. You can discard a single card per turn, but this just isn't fast enough to keep up with the other guy a lot of the time and it's just too easy to get stuck with things that you can't or won't complete and quickly fall behind. Maelstrom missions need a better "comeback" mechanic to either slow down the winning player or give the guy on the bottom an advantage; I'm not entirely sure what would work best at this point, but for the system to really work I think it's probably needed, otherwise too many games will turn into a cascading blowout. The ability to pitch any number of cards at the end of your turn might help, or having completed cards not automatically leave your "pool," or something else along those lines might be good enough. All in all the Maelstrom stuff is hardly unplayable, but with most of the problems with the standard missions fixed, there's not a really strong incentive to actually use them. Tequila Ranger posted:The old Grey Knight Hammerhand power explicitly could be stacked, can the new +2 Str Sanctic Hammerhand stack as well? Nemesis Halberds being S8 AP3 hitting at Init 6 sounds hilarious. Blessings do not stack in the new edition, nor does Hammerhand have any text to allow it to do so. You're stuck with "only" S6. (I am really sad to see Might of Titans go, though- I loved that spell. gently caress you, Dreadnought, my squad of Purifiers is gonna wreck your poo poo!) Phyresis posted:e: Also Jesus Christ you loving clowns, read the loving rules before you have multiple page arguments about poo poo. Psykers that come with specific powers instead of generating randomly on the table don't ever get any other powers, they don't get the Primaris, they can't loving summon Daemons, SHUT THE gently caress UP ABOUT IT While I sorta agree with you here, the Hemlock specifically has access to Daemonology, which is why it's confusing.
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May 28, 2014 07:21
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Ratflinger posted:You cannot soak anymore, instead you will get stunned with av 11 if you get weapon destroyed. They changed it. And if you destroy the barge, the Overlord is removed as a casualty. Still not terrible, but it got hit pretty hard. Admittedly, being able to lock yourself in combat is pretty good, and will most likely keep it viable. Remember that Living Metal can shrug off the Stunned result, so it's actually not that big a penalty. The fact that you can selectively allocate damage to either the Overlord or the Barge, whichever is more advantageous for you, is a huge boon that makes up for dying if your ship dies- and if you pop back up, your raft comes with you, which is badass. Last edition the fate of the Command Barge was inevitably "Krak Grenades swing before the Overlord, hit the vehicle on 3s and glance on 5s, say goodbye to your stupid transport and then you are disembarked and not a part of the combat." The new rules for the Barge are so much more advantageous it's not even funny. serious gaylord posted:Why do you always assume that people that don't want to be min max rules lawyering dicks don't know the rules nor how to play? In your case? Because of the passive-aggressive, snippy things you constantly say about competitive players. I know I'm not the only one who finds it incredibly tiresome.
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May 28, 2014 08:55
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HiveCommander posted:I find playing against min-maxing, WAAC army lists used by someone with a bachelors in rules-lawyering incredibly tiresome. There's two sides to the coin, AbusePuppy, or are you just trying to live up to your username by hurling insults? Jerks come in every flavor. I've met just as many whiney, "every army but mine is broken" casuals as I have cheating "oops I'm 200pts over I guess" competitive players. Generalizing either player type to be all- or mostly- bad is absurd. There are lots of ways and reasons to enjoy the game, whatever your preferences may be, and demonizing someone else because they don't enjoy the same things you do is ridiculous. I play competitively, but I also really enjoy converting models and using derpy "look ten Piranhas and three Vypers and six Devilfish" armies for the hell of it.
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May 28, 2014 09:17
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Ratflinger posted:As far as I know the command barge does not have reanimation protocols, nor does the AP rule hint at your transport returning with you. How do you selectively allocate wounds between the overlord and barge? The Chariot rules in both cases specify these things. "The player with the Chariot then allocates [each pool of hits] either to the rider or the chariot..." "If the rider has a special rule that returns them to play after they have been removed as a casualty... that model's chariot is also returned to play with a single hull point."
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May 28, 2014 10:04
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Yup, the chariot + rider are explicitly a single model for all game purposes.
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May 28, 2014 10:31
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Lungboy posted:It has access, but it's ML1 and has a fixed power so having access means nothing, it still can't pick a second power, or trade its fixed power in. Sure, like I said I basically agree with this position- but I don't think it's unreasonable for players to get confused that the Hemlock has access to Daemonology but isn't allowed to use it. PierreTheMime posted:Hmm, I'm having a real problem coming up with lists for CSM/Daemons because I just want too much and am having a problem focusing. Has anyone come up with decent builds they'd be willing to share? I'm likely going to stick with my successful CSM build of a Biker Lord with Spawn etc, but mixing in Chaos Daemons is making the points tougher. Crimson's Laughter has a big advantage in the Prophet of the Voices relic, which can turn one of your psykers into a Daemon to help shrug off perils. You can also just run a small contingent of summoners (say, a Herald + Pink Horrors) as allies and use them to generate occasional units and warp dice for your other guys to play with. You don't HAVE to go all-in on summoning- even in small doses it can be very strong. JerryLee posted:I think that the objective cards are a great idea in principle but I have zero problem believing that this is the sort of outcome that can result because, y'know, GW. I would love to have some better (amateur) game designers take a stab at making some homebrew cards and/or modifications to the card usage rules. The best fix I've seen yet is that, at the start of the game or the end of any turn, you can discard ANY number of cards. It's not perfect, but it at least gives players an "out" for when they end up with a bunch of bad stuff and stops one player from rapidly cycling through cards while the other one is stuck with garbage. jng2058 posted:This is what the new Tactical Warlord abilities are all about. Objective Deck management. Go Battle-Forged to get the re-roll and pick Tactical every time so you can manipulate the deck. You won't get "discard two every turn" each and every time, but you'll get something regarding the deck each game. The problem is that A, this costs you your warlord trait (and so isn't even an option for some armies) and B, usually doesn't work anyways. Only three of the Tactical traits actually let you discard cards for new ones, and one of them is one use only while another of those only works before the start of the game.
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May 28, 2014 18:17
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Infinite Karma posted:Combat Doctrines Being able to pick your warlord trait is amazingly strong, easily worth more than 25pts. Some of the traits are just clearly better than others, such as "infiltrate with three units," "ignore pinning this turn," etc. Psychic Mastery is either amazing or pretty worthless, depending. For Eldar, for example, it's... pretty game breaking. Okay, I pick Fortune, Invisibility and Doom- next? I think change it to just being a reroll (a la Tigurius) would be better, although I understand this sorta defeats the point of these things. Maybe have it cost per Mastery Level of the psyker? I like counter-intelligence except for the "can swap an altered objective for an unaltered one" text. Mmm. I guess I understand why it's there, though. Probably could price this one down slightly.
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May 28, 2014 18:58
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jng2058 posted:Fer gently caress's sake. We just went over this. I was responding to a guy who wanted to either get a mulligan or discard more than one card per turn and I was telling him that if that's what you want, go Tactical Warlord. I am not proposing that this is a cure-all solution for people who don't like the Objective Deck. Uh, I'm sorry I pointed out reasons why your proposed solution to a problem has problems? I realize you were responding to someone, I was explaining why, as a mechanic, that solution is not very good because it runs into several factors that trip it up. The fact that you suggested it kinda implies that you believe it is at least functional, because otherwise you wouldn't have said anything- and something with less than a 50% success rate I don't feel is terribly functional, even as a band-aid.
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May 28, 2014 19:17
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Lord Of Texas posted:I would say they are worse overall, but they are still so goddamn cheap and resilient for what they bring, Wave Serpents are not going away. 12/12/10, 3 HP, and nullify pens on a 2+ (with the option of 3+ cover) is drat resilient for 145 points. Wave Serpents got a little easier to kill now that they no longer always have a save, but it's pretty trivial to find some cover most of the time (especially if you spent a couple points for ignoring Dangerous Terrain.) However, entirely overriding that is the fact that the Serpent now gets Objective Secured, meaning they can contest/steal objectives from most units in the game. This is absolutely huge- having to disembark those minimal Dire Avenger/Guardian squads could be quite fatal to your ability to score objectives, but now that the Serpent itself can do all the work they are much, much better than before. adamantium|wang posted:So I'm not just blind? We can really place barrage blasts on the bottom floor of a multi-level piece of terrain now? "Levels," as they were defined in earlier editions of the game, are gone- blasts and templates hit all models underneath the marker unless you and your opponent decide to come up with some sort of special rules for handling things. The old "three inches for a level" thing is even gone, although vertical distance to climb through terrain pieces is still part of the rules, it's just not a fixed number for all terrain pieces now, nor a special feature of ruins and only ruins.
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May 29, 2014 09:11
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LordAba posted:Someone mentioned that you can only put fortifications in your deployment zone, is that true? That was, er, probably me, but yeah- the Deployment section notes that fortifications are deployed at the same time and in the same manner as all your other units, and Stronghold Assault does not, to the best of my knowledge, override this in any way. Fortifications have to be entirely within your deployment zone, which is SUPER awkward for stuff like the Aquilla and G.I. JOE PLAYSET. xtothez posted:Take a Bastion or Redoubt and place it in the middle of the table. Add an escape hatch behind it, on the edge of your deployment zone. Just to point out, you do not place the Escape Hatch until a model embarks onto the building, so no shenanigans in that respect. Kaza42 posted:As far as I can tell, there's also no more restriction on who can go up/down levels in ruins. Did I miss something, or can bikes (or worse, tanks) climb ruins? Sometimes you just gotta Escape From L.A. your way up some stairs like a badass. Tanks will generally not be able ot climb up ruins because you are still limited to only putting models where they can actually fit. Some folks are gonna desperately try and cram their Leman Russ into the upper level of a ruin by wedging it in there, but I think we can safely say that is a "No, sorry, it's not going to stay there and you know it" situation.
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May 29, 2014 20:23
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In the fluff, a score or two of Marines (and their transports) is enough to conquer an entire planet. I don't think ten Guardsmen is really a good match, because while Marines deploy by the dozen or by the hundred, Guardsmen deploy by the million or by the billion. Having a similar discussion the other day, our Tyranid player commented that "If that were the case, Tyranids should just be able to fill their entire deployment zone with models." He's not wrong.
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May 29, 2014 21:35
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Raphus C posted:Really? In the books I read it took hundreds to thousands to pacify the planets on the great crusade. The Primarks were cruising around with a bunch of marines and still got punched in the dick a fair bit. It turns out that 40K fluff is not at all consistent. twistedmentat posted:Though I don't think too many armies can really go nuts with psykers; tyranids and eldar seem the ones to watch out for. Tyranids, Grey Knights, Eldar, and Daemons can all easily generate 15+ dice, some of them a LOT more than that. Hell, just an allied contingent of Daemons is an easy 7-20 dice, depending on how many points you're willing to spend. I'm not sure what you mean by "attack normally" there- do you mean with shooting? They shoot exactly like any other MC does, whether swooping or gliding, except that they can choose to have Skyfire if they want. Sulecrist posted:Yeah I remember that issue! I don't remember specifics, though; I gave all of mine away years ago. They were basically WS5 BS5 S5 T5 W2 guys with three- or four-shot Rending boltguns, large blast frag grenades, and a bunch of other silly stuff. You could also buy "body doubles" that would take a hit for you (before rolling saves) and were removed automatically. The Razorback was especially hilarious because its Lascannon worked like the old rumors for Railgun weapons, where you basically drew a line down the table and anything along that line took a super-strong hit.
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May 29, 2014 23:10
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I know they didn't have that rule in 6E or 5E, and I sure don't remember it from the 4E book (although it might have been there.) In either case, that was rather a long time ago.
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May 30, 2014 07:15
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jng2058 posted:Pretty sure it was 4th, and that'd have been around 6 years or so. 4e Space Marines book was 2004, and I just checked- no "always not scoring" rule. I think that might've been part of the base rules at that point, though.
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May 30, 2014 07:43
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Boon posted:I'd like to make an argument for why the Hemlock Wraithfighter is now a sincerely worthwhile choice in this new edition. The problem with all of this is that it's still AV10 and not particularly cheap. The Pod is really nice utility and Terrify is a pretty good spell (I don't think it is intended to know Psychic Shriek, and "generated" is only ever used in reference to rolling powers, not automatically-known powers, so I think there is a reasonable RAW argument there as well, but that's largely beside the point), but there are a ton of other better options around for anything other than a morale-themed gimmick list. Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders are both powerful and effective units in the same slot that can score objectives; the Wave Serpent is pretty absurdly powerful; Jetbikes and Fire Prisms and Night Spinners and Wraithknights/lords and War Walkers and tons of other units all outperform the Hemlock as well in a variety of roles. I wouldn't call the Hemlock horrible, but it's just too easy to kill and not good enough at really doing anything. It needs to basically dive into the middle of the enemy in order to do its job and thus is not only exposed to a lot of fire but also going to be able to do its job for only a limited period of time, so basing a strategy around them is not all that good idea. Moreover, a lot of armies are just immune to what it wants to do, partially or fully- Daemons, Tyranids, Orks, and most varieties of Space Marines will pretty much just ignore its trick, which is a large chunk of the field. BULBASAUR posted:With the new vehicle rules I'm thinking that spartan assault tanks are basically not killable from the front Presumably FW will be releasing a FAQ to update things to 7E at some point, but yeah, the Spartan and most especially the Achilles are pretty stupid right now. I wouldn't make any guarantees about them getting fixed, either.
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Jun 3, 2014 07:49
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Cataphract posted:What'd a 1500 point sisters look like nowadays? I'm (foolishly) considering putting one together. I've inherited a few models from a mate and I've always liked the look of the army so I figure I can just trawl eBay, gumtree etc. and slowly add to the collection over time. With 7e dawning it's hard to say exactly, but I don't think Sisters make out much better than before. If we assume most of the 6E build rules hold true (which is a reasonably fair assumption, as their sole viable strategy got a little better and little else changed) you'll basically see three Exorcists, three squads of Dominions in Multimelta Immolators (weapon loadouts will vary between four Melta and four Flamer), and filing the remaining points with Battle Sister squads in Multimelta Immolators with Flamers/Heavy Flamers. Some variants will replace one of the mech'd Battle Sister squads with a big blob of girls on foot led by Jacobus and/or Celestine, and with wider access to ally options you may see them allying in GK or IG for some shenanigans (like a Librarian giving them Shrouding, Sanctity, or Hammerhand.) Naramyth posted:I've been kicking around some new lists now that I've been getting my head around 7th. I think GK MSU razorspam might be viable now that tanks can score, they help out with the casting pool, and you can share transports with battle bros. Mmm. I don't hate the GK half of it, but the Psybacks should probably be Rhinos instead- those 75pt Razorbacks are pretty fragile and a Rhino with a Psyker on top casting Psychic Shriek out is gonna be as good or better against infantry units. I ran a Dreadknight with Heavy Incinerator for melee defense/cover-busting before, but maybe with Shriek that's not as needed? I still think the Dread is preferable over the Chapter Smasher in terms of countercharge units, though, there's just such a vast difference in price. Mindstrike Missiles off of the GK 'Raven are also probably better than the SM one these days, which frees up any real need to bring in the SM half of things- you could easily field something else instead. Purifiers in Rhinos would also be worth looking at- two Psycannons and Cleansing Flame out of the top hatch every turn is nothing to sneeze at. GK is all about generating lots of warp charge and casting WC1 spells with 1-3 dice, I think. Combined with their innate psychic protections (Brotherhood, The Aegis) it makes them all but invulnerable to most offensive spells and gives them a fighting chance at breaking a important Blessing/Summon spell. Obviously they have problems with FMCs and Wave Serpents, but if you can address those I think you end up with some solid lists.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:10
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Naramyth posted:Bah. I only skimmed the FAQ. I was thinking the transports and dreads still had Fortitude. Then yeah Purifers and pskyers in rhinos with dreadknight and Stormraven support. I still think there should be some more AA in the equation but I'll have to do list building later. With something like two Stormravens, two Dreadnoughts, and two Purifier units you're doing relatively alright for AA; they have to choose to Jink before knowing how many hits you get, which makes your "throw dice at the problem" guns a lot more effective in that respect. Sadly, there are almost zero effective ways to bring anti-flyer in the game at this point, bar Forge World.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:40
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Post 9-11 User posted:Did they actually fix Sanctioned Psykers/Weirdvaynes so that the unit doesn't explode when one of them hear's a voice? They're all Brotherhood, so no exploding units. Monoliths posted:Am I reading the GK FAQ wrong or are henchman psykers basically like buying warp charges for 10 point a pop? Oh no I have to buy Coteaz first to get them. Not even a tax for that beautiful bastard. 10pts for adding a warp charge to a unit, yes, and a roll on the Telepathy table hoping to get Invisibility, Shrouding, or Psychic Shriek at the worst. They're kinda really good. BULBASAUR posted:I thought Daemons and Imperial factions can't ally now? They're Come the Apocalypse, but in theory anyone can ally with anyone, just with varying levels of penalties.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:27
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Hollismason posted:Where the hell is it that they get Telepathy? I'm literally looking at the FAQ page right now. Coteaz is the guy who lets you take units of Henchmen as troops. He's super-good. In the first page of the GK FAQ, it list characters who are allowed to roll on psychic discipline tables (as opposed to having fixed powers), which includes Librarians, Coteaz, Grand Masters, Draigo, and Psykers.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:48
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Karandras posted:Smash is basically mechanically the same as well, it's an odd choice. I would much rather have 2d6 penetration than reroll failed penetrations. I was very sad to see Eviscerators go.
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Jun 5, 2014 04:09
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jng2058 posted:Good news! Just ally in some Sisters of Battle and you'll be swimming in the things! I actually used Repentia as Priests/Banishers for a fair while, since I like the concept (if not quite as much the models) a lot. Sadly, like most other things in that book, they are fairly terrible.
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Jun 5, 2014 04:46
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It's cute, but does the game really need more ways to punish Terminators?
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Jun 5, 2014 05:27
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Sharzak posted:How many dark lance shots would it take to kill an Imperial Knight? At, say, BS4? I would do the math myself but I don't know the Knights stats. Dark Eldar have the maneuverability to get into multiple facings, so these numbers may be slightly on the pessimistic side, but my general assumption against Knights is that half of your shots will have to punch through their Ion Shield (a 4++.) With that in mind, a Ravager will take three shots, hit with two of them, and get an average one 4+ or better to strip off a Hull Point. (You will occasionally get Explodes! results thanks to AP2, which complicate things a little bit, but the actual added damage is quite low.) So you're doing roughly one HP per three shots plus Explode bonus, or a total of ~.4 HP per shot. Ignoring the Ion Shield that would mean needing fifteen Dark Lance shots no average, or around twenty shots with the prementioned pessimistic view of its effects. In short, you need a LOT of Lances to do anything. AV12 is rough for Dark Eldar. krushgroove posted:Just curious what your favorite Nids A-T is? Units, weapons, tactics? I'm still learning how to use my bugs so anything will help. For a "competitive" Tyranid list the answer is basically Crone Vector Strikes and twin-linked Devourers. Don't underestimate the strength of gobs and gobs of S6 shooting, as it can drag virtually anything down eventually. Less hard-edged players can do pretty well with Exocrines (six S7 shots), Hive Guard (S8 Ignore Cover), and Zoanthropes (S10 Lance) in a lot of cases. Smash Attack, although significantly weakened, is still a pretty decent option- you might only strip one HP off and do a bit of damage, but that's still "free" damage on a tank. Carnifexes are exceptionally good at killing tanks in melee, as they are natively S9 and get multiple Hammer of Wrath hits; Tervigons or other critters with Crushing Claws are also pretty fair, since 2d6 on penetration rolls is a lot more useful now.
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Jun 5, 2014 21:39
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Greyish Orange posted:Is it still not worth taking a Draigo themed GK army? Paladin armies are tricky because you're always gonna have a really low model count. For that reason, you really need to squeeze points elsewhere to try and make sure you can get maximum mileage out of things. I think you have some good concepts here, but there's a couple missteps, the main one being your Land Raiders. Paladins pay a lot for being tough, and cramming them inside a metal box largely wastes that- it might mean you get to combat a little sooner, but it limits the number of guys you can have as well. With that in mind, I would try something like this: Draigo Coteaz 5 Purifiers (2 Psycannons) in Rhino 5 Purifiers (2 Psycannons) in Rhino 10 Paladins (4 Psycannons, Banner, Apothecary; 2-4 Hammers, 1-3 Swords, the rest Halberds) 1 Paladin (Hammer or Halberd) 1 Psyker + 2 Acolytes in Razorback w/Psybolt 1 Psyker + 2 Acolytes in Razorback w/Psybolt 1 Psyker + 2 Acolytes in Razorback w/Psybolt 1 Psyker + 2 Acolytes 1 Dreadnought (2 TL Autocannon, Psybolt) 1 Dreadnought (2 TL Autocannon, Psybolt) That gives you a good amount of fire support at S6/7/8, some anti-horde tricks with Cleansing Flame, and a nasty disembark with your Psykers by dumping Psychic Shriek on someone. Draigo wants to be rolling on Divination in hopes of getting Precognition, because rerolling a 3++ or 2++ save is badass. Coteaz can go Divination or Sanctic, depending on your mood. Psykers almost certainly want to roll Telepathy every time- Shriek is amazing and if you get super-lucky you could have Invisibility to put on your guys. A Dreadknight wouldn't be out of place in the army, either, although I felt that the fire support was more important at this stage. (I'm not a fan of the teleporting Knight.) Interceptors could also potentially make the list to support your aggressive strategy. If you wanted to be super-lulzy, you could sneak in a Skyshield to put your vehicles on top of- that's an easy 3++ for your tanks right there.
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Jun 6, 2014 20:14
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Greyish Orange posted:Some nice ideas here which I'm going to really think on about how to take it forward. Also it's really good to know about the psychic bits, as it's quite new to me to be thinking of it. Hrm. I'm not sure how I feel about the list- a Stormraven in 1k points is very risky, especially if you were looking to put the Paladins inside, as that's leaving a HUGE chunk of your points off the table. If you would entertain an alternate option: trade one of the Henchmen units into some combination of Death Cult Assassins and Crusaders (plus a Psyker, of course) and run that inside the 'Raven. Cheap, hard-hitting, Objective Secured. basically, without Draigo to Scout the Paladins forward or soak up AP2 wounds, I feel like they're gonna lose a lot of steam. They won't be useless or anything, but definitely gonna struggle some. There's some other little trims you could do to improve things, but for your stated goals I think it looks alright. (You might consider cramming Psybolt + Hurricane Bolters onto that Stormraven, though. They're super-badass.)
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Jun 7, 2014 22:09
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Tadhg posted:*deletia* Never forget you have a terrible hobby filled with terrible people. My sympathy to your gaming group for their awful local situation; we have a handful of female players and generally try to avoid the worst of the spergy misogynists, but it's inevitably uphill work. Safety Factor posted:So, now flyers can die from an immobilized result and the Nephilim fighter has a rule that lets it count weapon destroyed results as immobilized instead. Did 7th edition make the Nephilim better? I would still usually rather tear off a gun (and thus cripple the enemy's ability to shoot back) than have a 1/3 chance of shooting them down immediately most of the time, although that would depend on what the enemy flyer was. But against a Heldrake, Night/Doom Scythe, and some of the others? Yeah, let's turn off those guns.
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Jun 9, 2014 09:30
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serious gaylord posted:I dont think its negatively impacted how many people buy their stuff, and an argument could be made that its helped them by removing the cancerous monkeys so it does actually make sense from their point of view. It might not be impacting their current sales, but I think you can make a strong argument it affects their future ones. GW is popular and all, but that doesn't mean they can't benefit from additional publicity and information distribution to folks, and currently they are pretty lacking in that department. For players deep in the hobby keeping up with things isn't hard, but for folks more on the periphery the blackout on info GW tends to maintain can make it very difficult to keep current with what is going on. Ghost Hand posted:I would point out that WoTC actually killed all posts in regards to RA Salvatore because he got butt hurt about people ragging on his characters and writing. So it became a rule on their official forums that you couldn't discuss certain things (in particular the works of RA Salvatore). Not sure if this is still the situation - but it was for quite awhile. As amusing as this is, I don't think banning a particularly-contentious topic of discussion is the same thing as shutting down your entire message board/etc. I mean, SA has plenty of banned topics and even this very thread has a couple unique to it that are pretty well-known just to cause tons and tons of shitposting; avoiding those is more a matter of common sense than anything else.
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Jun 9, 2014 17:00
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I see FW is still continuing their "we hate new rules and will work as hard as we can to circumvent them" policy. Very classy. The "Init test or die" flamer template is also a total throwback and totally ridiculous at 50pts.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:18
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