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Stravinsky posted:"Man reading good books means I can only talk about them in a purely academic fashion," said the idiot who has not moved on since public school. Way back in my undergrad years I took a lit class and holy crap it was so much better than any of my lit classes in high school. Not that I minded those but dang if they don't make people think that non-genre books are supposed to be incomprehensible without a lot of studying.
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Jun 18, 2014 03:24
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Damo posted:Read some real literature says the guy with the anime avatar. Get the best of both worlds, and watch a literary anime such as Ping Pong: The Animation, imo.
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Jun 18, 2014 03:30
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Effectronica posted:What have you read in terms of "high literature"? I'd like to know too, because that is really painting it with broad strokes. There are plenty of non-genre books that aren't depressing or anything!
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Jun 18, 2014 05:34
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I'll recommend A Confederacy of Dunces, since it's an easy read and since you are posting on this site I assume you are entertained by stories of terrible people getting into humorous situations.
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Jun 18, 2014 06:00
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CestMoi posted:Hello Mister Kingdom, you can read good literature and simply enjoy the words as they are presented to you on the page for being well constructed and beautiful and not even think about any meaning to yourself/the human peoples of the world. However, the very best books of all just cause you to think about them even when you are not reading them and you spontaneously engage in your own analysis and think about whether you believe the Don Quixote of Pierre Menard is the same as the Don QUixote of Miquel de Cervantes or if you think a man running across Europe trying to stop a bomb being launched by black Nazi commandos might bear some relevance to your own life. You don't need to sit and analyse every aspect but you will catch yourself thinking about the book on a level above "I hope Arya dies next". Tarranon posted:Engaging the text actually owns tho, and it is easy and everyone can do it, and then you get to enjoy your favorite faustian book three times These are some insanely good posts on the matter and heck, while I don't have anything that could really be added to those statements I just want everyone to see them again, for emphasis. Especially for the people that think that in order to read non-genre stuff you *have* to analyze themes and subtexts and other things they tell you about in high school lit class.
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Jun 18, 2014 15:42
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Mister Kingdom posted:But if I do read those types of books and I don't "get" the subtext, then I'm judged as some kind of imbecile. You seem to have a hangup about that stuff, I suggest following the advice in the things I quoted! Surface-level enjoyment of that stuff is fine, nobody in here is saying you're a monster for not going past that when reading non-genre stuff. Don't make up some strawmen, tia. A lot of the people posting in here just want folks to eat healthy stuff every once in awhile instead of McDonald's, basically! Srice fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 16:27
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Mister Kingdom posted:If the story interests me, I'll give it a shot, if not, I won't. Typically yeah, but: Stravinsky posted:Here's the thing, if you do not get something there are people who read it that did and they will tell you what you missed. Maybe even here on this very forum. There might not be many threads for non-genre books in the 'barn, but the people in them are definitely more than willing to help out with that stuff. They won't mock you for giving something outside of your comfort zone an earnest shot!
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Jun 18, 2014 16:47
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You should make a thread for that book! I wouldn't be able to contribute anything because I haven't read it but heck that thread for White Noise convinced me to check it out sometime, and having a thread out there could do the same with The Accursed! Sometimes just looking at the discussions going on can get me interested in something and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.
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Jun 18, 2014 22:32
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Speaking of spoilers, one of the neat side effects that branching out to meatier stuff has done for me is that I personally have stopped giving a poo poo about spoilers more or less! I mean, I don't go and seek them out but if I run into them, I just shrug. The fact that it doesn't bother me if I hear "so and so dies!" is quite liberating, I gotta say. Since hey, if it's well written there's a lot of juicy stuff in such a scene beyond just the death that is enjoyable to pick through!
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Jun 19, 2014 05:45
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Exactly! And most of the time spoilers are floating around, it's the former.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:49
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Pessimisten posted:Man i'm going to show these slow rear end fuckwits on TBB who's the boss. I will start this super awesome thread about being superior to people who don't read what i read, drawing a clear line in the sand where my side equals good and the other side equals bad. Then i'm going to tell these bitches that if they weren't on my side when i drew it they suck. Now that I've established my higher standing and good taste they should be be willing to pluck all my apples of wisdom for they shall see that i am the three of knowledge. Come brethren, embrace my ankles as you grovel at my feet licking the ground for the crumbles of intellectual salvation that i spill over you. Love me, for i am better! There have been a ton of excellent suggestions for quality non-genre books in this very thread, along with quality commentary about some of them! Plus some common misconceptions about literary works were cleared up. It's a good thread and you should read it from start to finish imo.
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Jun 19, 2014 15:38
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Nobody in this thread is being pretentious about it though? I mean, there are a lot of kneejerk replies that act like the thread is, but if you'll read it you'll see that the people sharing the OP's opinion are anything but pretentious. Respond to what is being said, instead of what you think is being said! Srice fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 19:50
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"Pretentious" is a word that is thrown around a lot more than it needs to be, and that's my opinion on the matter. I just don't see the suggestion that people should expand their horizons to be pretentious at all. Also, there are a lot of good posts in this thread where people have been talking about books they love in a way that's not pretentious at all!
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Jun 19, 2014 21:43
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ManlyGrunting posted:That said, if you want a good gateway between comic book nerd poo poo and honest to God Literature, The Brief Wonderous Life of Oscar Wao by Junot Diaz is a fantastic place to start. I would pretty much reccomend this book to anyone who is eschewing the good stuff for genre fiction because it plays off a working knowledge of it to create a work that's legitimately profound and thought-provoking. Seconding this. Fairly short, the magical realism stuff isn't intimidating for newcomers to that sort of thing, and it also features a protagonist that enjoys D&D, sci-fi & fantasy books, and anime. Plus it's not a difficult read at all so while you can get a lot of depth out of it, if all you want to do is engage it on the surface level then that's fine too because it's still an enjoyable read. It's good.
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Jun 26, 2014 23:51
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Stravinsky posted:Not every thread has to be some sprawling 50 page monster. Small threads are cool as well. Yeah I've been convinced to read a few things that had threads that were one, two pages at most. Don't have to have a ton of posts to get some good discussion going!
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Jul 16, 2014 21:03
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Rime posted:OP, why are you such a hipster that you believe some "literature" has more merit than others just by virtue of being a couple hundred years old? One thing that does help is those several hundred year old books are still being talked about, today.
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Jul 17, 2014 05:24
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Widestancer posted:If I had to compare top grossing novels written today with popular novels written a couple hundred years ago I'm pretty sure I'd get less brain damage reading the classics. Heck most popular novels from ages ago don't stand the test of time either. Even looking at bestseller lists from 60-70 years ago will have a few familiar things but the majority of them will be complete unknowns today (and usually for good reason).
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Jul 17, 2014 05:25
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Rime posted:Protip: This is a genre novel. The genre is pretentious poo poo about lovely reality. It's largely a modern invention, coming to prominence in the 1960's. 
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Jul 17, 2014 05:43
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So what books would you recommend then, and for what reasons.
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Jul 17, 2014 05:51
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Real talk: Have you actually read this thread past the OP? Because after the first few pages people have been discussing lots and lots of good poo poo in a way that's not pretentious at all! There are some p great discussions going on and as a result, my book backlog is all sorts of bigger now.
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Jul 17, 2014 06:32
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I encourage you to look at the other pages past that! Lot of great insight and fun to be had there, since ultimately this thread has become the same as the thread for non-genre books except more active. (Which is pretty cool imo)
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Jul 17, 2014 06:38
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Please do not treat reading like gearing up for a raid in World of Warcraft, tia.
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Jul 31, 2014 19:36
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Blind Sally posted:I think the problem is working itself out. For a while there was pretty much nothing but genre fic threads. But now people are beginning to post more threads about other work, classical and otherwise. As long as we keep doing that instead of blindly criticizing stuff, it's gonna sort itself out. But this thread should probably get a title change, since it's needlessly inflammatory and keeps bringing in people who angrily post without reading the discourse that has occurred throughout the thread (not pointing fingers). I feel like the title has been helpful because this thread got more posts than the thread for talking non-genre books in a mere fraction of the time!
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Aug 3, 2014 19:12
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Not gonna pick on you here (or anyone in particular), but I just wanna make an observation that I hear the line about only reading pulp and genre due to having a busy workload so often that it feels like a second cousin to the nerd line about liking all music genres "except rap and country".
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Aug 4, 2014 20:45
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Mr.48 posted:Have you considered that you might be hearing it a lot because it could be true for many people? To be honest I believe that the people who talk about liking all genres besides rap and country just haven't given anything on those genres a fair shake. Or for another line in the same vein, "I can't exercise because it hurts my knees" I guess what I'm getting at is, to me it just comes across as an excuse that tries to save face instead of sounding honest. I'm sure there are legit cases but I just have my doubts about the majority of them! Also ulvir posted:that line of thought boggles my mind, it's like these dweebs have got it into their heads that good literature can't be entertaining or fun to read Yeah this, lots of hella fun stuff that has zero spaceships or wizards or whatever in them. Srice fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 01:12
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I recommend looking into short stories, lots of classic authors have written them. Stuff like Crime and Punishment and Infinite Jest are really long, after all. With something short it will be easier to digest and you'll have a better idea if you'll enjoy their style before taking the plunge into a much longer work.
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Sep 7, 2014 21:41
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I loved Wind-up Bird Chronicle and felt lukewarm on 1Q84 as well. For my money's worth Hardboiled Wonderland and the End of the World is one of the better Murakami books out there. Though I did find his most recent (translated) book Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage to be a nice return to form for him.
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Dec 10, 2014 04:53
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It's a controversial stance but I'm gonna say it: both variations of the thread title are good advice.
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Jun 17, 2015 15:02
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I'd be interested in seeing some of the changes between that first draft and To Kill A Mockingbird, but more out of curiosity. But even then I'm not curious enough to actually spend the time and money on it.
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Jul 12, 2015 23:37
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Bandiet posted:One of Vonnegut's rules of writing was "Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for." While I'm sure that's still not necessary for some people, I definitely agree with that more than thoroughly loving a character, which is pretty facile. I believe at some point he said that if you're a good enough writer you can break any of his rules except one: Don't make the reader feel like their time has been wasted.
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Jan 8, 2016 12:02
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When I first read it I knew The Ark Sakura would be a good book because within the first chapter it talks about a bug that lives by sitting in the same spot all day and slowly spinning around, eating its own feces
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Mar 31, 2016 19:18
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Congrats to Pynchon for winning not one, but two Nobels. Wow!
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Mar 6, 2019 13:24
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Thinking the next thing I read might be something from the longlist...anyone have any takes on anything on the list?
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Mar 14, 2019 14:09
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chernobyl kinsman posted:someone somewhere was saying that bury your plow under the dead of their bones or whatever was really good and i'll probably pick that up in the near future Wound up picking the Can Xue book since it was readily available...ty to everyone who threw out some takes 
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Mar 14, 2019 22:41
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Shibawanko posted:If you don't like Mishima you're insane
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May 19, 2019 20:00
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Antivehicular posted:I liked The Handmaid's Tale reasonably well when I read it in high school, but the sequel sounds like a complete cash-in/fan-bait. MORE WORLDBUILDING, OH BOY She got basically no money from the tv series so I can understand why she'd do that, but lmao at it winning the booker.
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Oct 16, 2019 01:13
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Guy A. Person posted:How the hell does that happen in this day and age? Did she just have a lovely holdover contract with her publisher from when it originally came out? Yeah pretty much. She signed away the adaption rights decades ago to MGM and Hulu got it from them so the only money she saw directly from the show was from being a consultant on it.
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Oct 16, 2019 01:30
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NikkolasKing posted:If I might be random, why is The Scarlet Letter so detested by people my age? I'm 31 and of all the stuff people had to read in school, it gets savaged more than any other in my experience. It's a pretty commonly assigned highschool book. And I can't speak for how it gets taught generally but my experience back in highschool was that in class the primary focus was on the blatant symbolism present in it, and nothing was said about the religious hypocrisy going on in the book. A joyless way to go about it, plus a lot of people resent books they were forced to read in highschool in general (and heck if you don't have a great teacher I can understand why).
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Oct 16, 2019 12:16
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Jack B Nimble posted:I know it's silly but Knives Out "shamed" me into a second attempt at Gravity's Rainbow; previously I'd had a copy on audible and I gave up somewhere in chapter 2 because I couldn't tell reality from fantasy within a single paragraph. Accordingly, this time I opted for a print copy and also determined to notes as I went. It was better; I was more comfortable and better able appreciating the prose more, the evocative scenes, but I was still troubled by how confused I got, how often I had go back or re-read. But then I came here and: It took me a few tries to really get into Gravity's Rainbow too. I'm super glad I stuck with it though, once it clicked I loved it even during the parts where I was confused as heck. Godspeed goon.
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Dec 13, 2019 02:25
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cda posted:Moby Dick was mostly ftw but it was kind of tiresome how the whale would just Kramer in all the time and then Ishmael would whitesplain it, meanwhile Ahab kept showing his whole rear end, which was kinda cringey. But I have to admit that in spite of it being problematic, a lot of the story was fairly loving epic and there's all kinds of possibilities for shipping.
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Feb 4, 2020 02:06
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